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  #1  
Old 05-01-2012, 09:40 PM
GCDrummer GCDrummer is offline
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Default Pinstripes over _______?

Hey everyone, I'm looking for advice and information on what resonant heads to choose for my drums. I've only replaced skins on my snare drums, so reso's have never been that hard to decide on as all I do with them is crank em up!

So I guess my actual question is, is will my resonant skin choice really affect the tone of my drums? I'm looking for a controlled, deep sound, like Patrick Carney is sporting in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZCSGwKOntY# (skip to 3:50)

I have the exact same drums as he does, so hopefully it wont be hard to achieve something similar!

Thanks ahead of time for the consistently awesome advice :)
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: Pinstripes over _______?

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Originally Posted by GCDrummer View Post
I have the exact same drums as he does, so hopefully it wont be hard to achieve something similar!

Thanks ahead of time for the consistently awesome advice :)
Look at the rack tom into the video at 0:46, the reso head look like a coated ambassador, he also sticked some gaffer tape...

The drums is mic'up, therefore it also depends on the mics being used and the possible effect applied to the kit by the sound engineer, it's probably been EQ'ed as well, chances are it sounds different than an unmic'ed kit.

Having the same kit and the same head combo certainely help if you want a similar sound, lol, however, tuning, the sticks, the drummer and in this case, the PA system, these factors will all affect the sound one way or another, so it's not guaranteed that you'll achieve the very same sound, your best bet is to experiment with tuning, muffling until you find the sound you're looking for.

Sorry, I can't be more helpful than this :)
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:46 PM
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Default Re: Pinstripes over _______?

The vast majority of people use clear Ambassadors, or equivalent, for their resonant tom heads. Those are definitely the standard. Its easy to assume Carney is part of the vast majority. Youtube is blocked at my work, so I can't watch it and verify what he's using.

Other common resonant head options are clear diplomats or coated ambassadors. The thinner your resonant head, the brighter and shorter you note will be. Diplomats give you shorter brighter tones compared to the clear Ambs. Coated Ambs give you a warmer, fuller response.

really you can use anything for a resonant head, but practically speaking, as long as the resonant head isn't thicker, or more muffed, than your batter head, you're good. For example, I won't use Ambs over Pinstripes, Ambs over Emps, Clear amb over Coated Amb, etc. Any of those combonations will choke the sound of your drum. Reverse the config however, and your drums will sing.
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  #4  
Old 05-02-2012, 01:06 AM
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Default Re: Pinstripes over _______?

I rather like black dots as reso heads ;)
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Old 05-02-2012, 05:35 AM
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Default Re: Pinstripes over _______?

Looks like coated pinstripes over coated ambassadors plus some moon jell as well. Although sounding decent miked, eq'd and more than likely reverb and or delay added, in a non miked situation will sound more like wet cardboard.
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Old 05-02-2012, 06:19 AM
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Default Re: Pinstripes over _______?

Yup, Remo guys tend to use Ambassador's reso, a lot. Clear, smooth, and coated. Almost the "default setting" for Remo users.
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I rather like black dots as reso heads ;)
And indeed, that's a great reso head, too. An Ambassador.....with a dot. Adds just a tad of focus.
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Old 05-02-2012, 06:22 AM
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Yup, Remo guys tend to use Ambassador's reso, a lot. Clear, smooth, and coated. Almost the "default setting" for Remo users.
And indeed, that's a great reso head, too. An Ambassador.....with a dot. Adds just a tad of focus.
Yeah, I wasn't kidding either ;) I currently have a black dot on my front bass drum, with a Evans EQ4 as the batter with nothing inside the drum and it sounds great. I'm debating putting black dots top and bottom on all of my toms too. There's a reason Tony Williams had that sound - I'm convinced it was the dots!
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:44 AM
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Default Re: Pinstripes over _______?

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I'm debating putting black dots top and bottom on all of my toms too. There's a reason Tony Williams had that sound - I'm convinced it was the dots!
My new (to me) Tama Superstars just showed up today and I'm debating the same thing. I think they'd sound cool on that thick birch and I think that's what they used to ship with back in the '80s, but I can't remember. Decisions, decisions...
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  #9  
Old 05-03-2012, 02:54 AM
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My new (to me) Tama Superstars just showed up today and I'm debating the same thing. I think they'd sound cool on that thick birch and I think that's what they used to ship with back in the '80s, but I can't remember. Decisions, decisions...
Yep - they did! When I got my Superstars back in '84, they shipped with black dots top and bottom, and a CHROME front logo head. I was stylin' ;)
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:41 AM
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Default Re: Pinstripes over _______?

I think black dots are making a comeback.
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  #11  
Old 05-03-2012, 05:43 AM
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Yep - they did! When I got my Superstars back in '84, they shipped with black dots top and bottom, and a CHROME front logo head. I was stylin' ;)
I had myself convinced I would do dots over dots (because of that distinct Tony Williams sound) but then saw my friend's band play last night and he was using coated G2s over stock Ludwig resos. I thought they sounded great. so now I'm on the fence. Reheading 4 large toms (13,14,16,18) won't be cheap and I may chicken out and play it safe with coated G2s over clear G1s (I have Ambassadors top and bottom on my Keller kit), but that's not very adventurous, is it?
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:50 AM
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I had myself convinced I would do dots over dots (because of that distinct Tony Williams sound) but then saw my friend's band play last night and he was using coated G2s over stock Ludwig resos. I thought they sounded great. so now I'm on the fence. Reheading 4 large toms (13,14,16,18) won't be cheap and I may chicken out and play it safe with coated G2s over clear G1s (I have Ambassadors top and bottom on my Keller kit), but that's not very adventurous, is it?
Be bold. You'd be the only guy in a 100 miles using black dots, ya' know! You would be the talk of the town ;)
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  #13  
Old 05-03-2012, 06:25 AM
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Be bold. You'd be the only guy in a 100 miles using black dots, ya' know! You would be the talk of the town ;)
You know, it's almost perfect doing black dots on toms this big and old. You're right, I'd probably be the only dinosaur in 100s of miles using them. People would be like, "Whoa! Did this dude just come out of a time warp?"

Something oddly authentic and attractive about that. I'm feeling bold! I'm gonna do it!!

(unless I chicken out...)
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:21 AM
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Default Re: Pinstripes over _______?

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I'm debating putting black dots top and bottom on all of my toms too. There's a reason Tony Williams had that sound - I'm convinced it was the dots!
That's a great combo, too. Tony's sound, sure, in part, was the heads ..... but those Gretsch tubs he was banging had something to do with it, too! I was just over at a buddy drummers crib, today .... and he had his Gretsch Stop Sign Badge kit out (he has 10 kits). 24, 12, 14, 16 (one rack, two floors). Great sounding drums. That Jasper shell .... no one else was doing that. For a while, Fibes owned Jasper, but that's no more. I can get my Ludwig 6 ply kit to sound "close" to my Gretsch RB kit. I could get my Rogers XP-8 shells to sound "closer". My Yamaha RC's and my RMV's, not even. Whole nuther thang going on, with those.
But hey, that's why I own seven acoustic kits. They all sound different. I love the variety.
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Something oddly authentic and attractive about that. I'm feeling bold! I'm gonna do it!!
Be bold. Go for it.
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  #15  
Old 05-03-2012, 08:05 AM
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Default Re: Pinstripes over _______?

Thanks for the info guys! I'm starting to lean towards Pinstripes over Coated Ambassadors to get a really warm thuddy tone. I might post a video of how it sounds when I get them all re-skinned!
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  #16  
Old 05-03-2012, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: Pinstripes over _______?

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Thanks for the info guys! I'm starting to lean towards Pinstripes over Coated Ambassadors to get a really warm thuddy tone. I might post a video of how it sounds when I get them all re-skinned!
If you went with the equivilant head from Aquarian which would be coated performance 2 over texture coated you will get the same sound for less money and they will last at least twice as long. http://www.aquariandrumheads.com/pro...ide-comparison
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  #17  
Old 05-03-2012, 07:48 PM
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You know, it's almost perfect doing black dots on toms this big and old. You're right, I'd probably be the only dinosaur in 100s of miles using them. People would be like, "Whoa! Did this dude just come out of a time warp?"

Something oddly authentic and attractive about that. I'm feeling bold! I'm gonna do it!!

(unless I chicken out...)
If you do it, in your honor, I'll put my 22" black dot on the front of my kit as a reso ;)

Anything black or chrome looks good on my black oysters.
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  #18  
Old 05-03-2012, 10:26 PM
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If you do it, in your honor, I'll put my 22" black dot on the front of my kit as a reso ;)

Anything black or chrome looks good on my black oysters.
Okay, I only half chickened out. I got dots for the batters and Ambs for resos. Does that count?
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:32 PM
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Okay, I only half chickened out. I got dots for the batters and Ambs for resos. Does that count?
Dude......disappointed.......... ;)
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  #20  
Old 05-03-2012, 10:37 PM
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Dude......disappointed.......... ;)
I know. I feel ashamed and dirty. :(
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  #21  
Old 05-06-2012, 08:42 AM
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Default Re: Pinstripes over _______?

So I bought the pinstripes for my toms (already had one on my snare) and I'm very happy with how they turned out! I think that they will sound better once I replace the G2s that are on the bottoms right now.. I bought the drums with them on there. Once I get the coated ambassadors, I will post up a clip of how they sound!
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Old 05-06-2012, 08:12 PM
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Default Re: Pinstripes over _______?

Sorry for the hijack, but I wanted to report back on the black dots: I don't like them. I'll be making a trip back to the drum shop this week for some coated Ambassadors. Apart from looking cool, the black dots have a muting effect that sucks the life out of the toms. I should've known since I've used them before and after all, they are called "Control Sound"...

To be fair, they may not be so bad on a thinner shell with a sharper bearing edge, but that's not what I have. Pretty tough going from a thin Keller maple shell with sharp bearing edges and Ambassadors, to a thick birch shell with a 45 / roundover and black dots.

If the Ambassadors don't bring enough life into those drums, I may have the edges recut to something sharper.
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Old 05-06-2012, 08:15 PM
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Sorry for the hijack, but I wanted to report back on the black dots: I don't like them. I'll be making a trip back to the drum shop this week for some coated Ambassadors. Apart from looking cool, the black dots have a muting effect that sucks the life out of the toms. I should've known since I've used them before and after all, they are called "Control Sound"...

To be fair, they may not be so bad on a thinner shell with a sharper bearing edge, but that's not what I have. Pretty tough going from a thin Keller maple shell with sharp bearing edges and Ambassadors, to a thick birch shell with a 45 / roundover and black dots.

If the Ambassadors don't bring enough life into those drums, I may have the edges recut to something sharper.
No! Black dots mean you're playing everything with a 2B stick and playing alot harder! They may suck the tone out of the drum, but you as a player are supposed to put it back in ;)
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Old 05-07-2012, 03:08 AM
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No! Black dots mean you're playing everything with a 2B stick and playing alot harder! They may suck the tone out of the drum, but you as a player are supposed to put it back in ;)
Never thought of it like that!
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Old 05-07-2012, 03:44 AM
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No! Black dots mean you're playing everything with a 2B stick and playing alot harder! They may suck the tone out of the drum, but you as a player are supposed to put it back in ;)
LOL!! Why didn't you tell me that before?? Ha ha!
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Old 05-07-2012, 05:15 AM
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LOL!! Why didn't you tell me that before?? Ha ha!
Well, I didn't tell you to take that wallet taped to your snare off either, but I don't judge ;)
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Old 05-07-2012, 03:58 PM
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Default Re: Pinstripes over _______?

i think those are coated PS3's not pinstripes..
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  #28  
Old 05-07-2012, 06:34 PM
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i think those are coated PS3's not pinstripes..
Aha, I think you're right! At 4:35 you can see two stripes, so yes, those are PS3s. Oh well, I do like the sound of the pinstripes so I will keep them. I'll have a look at the PS3s next time, perhaps.
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:52 PM
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Default Re: Pinstripes over _______?

Sorry for the double post, just gonna conclude this thread.

I put coated ambassadors over the pinstripes, replacing the G2s that were on and now I have much more open drums! I haven't dialed them in yet, but I'm digging the extra resonance i'm getting out of them, will be handy for unmicced gigs! Hopefully I'll have recordings of our band with the drums, but for now here's two that we've done with a house set.

http://soundcloud.com/gallons-corner
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Old 05-11-2012, 08:32 PM
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I put coated ambassadors over the pinstripes...
Amb's OVER Pin's? You mean to say Pin's over Amb's right lol? I used this combo, it's decent but I don't think it works to well with thin shells. I believe I can get a low fat tune with coated 12 mil single plys and that's what I plan to do, maybe this weekend or when GC has a better promo going. 12% off a single item isn't really worth the trip up there but I need sticks so I may do it.

Glad to hear you like your Remo's.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:08 PM
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Amb's OVER Pin's? You mean to say Pin's over Amb's right lol? I used this combo, it's decent but I don't think it works to well with thin shells. I believe I can get a low fat tune with coated 12 mil single plys and that's what I plan to do, maybe this weekend or when GC has a better promo going. 12% off a single item isn't really worth the trip up there but I need sticks so I may do it.

Glad to hear you like your Remo's.
Ambassadors over Pinstripes is not unheard of. In fact, back in the early 80s when Chad Wackerman played for Frank Zappa (the Valley Girl days) Chad's drumtech stated he used Ambassadors on top and Pins on the bottoms because he had this notion that the ambassadors are what the player hears, and the pins are what the audience hears. Not sure how true this ended up being since they played in big halls and mic'd the drums up from the top anyway, but that was the thinking. And I understood it to a point, provided your audience was right in front of you and below you and they were just hearing the kit unadulterated.
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:00 PM
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Actually Bo you could be right. I tend to think inside the box, which would then keep me from exploring and discovering new ways to go about doing things. I never take the initiative to do things that are not by the book so I wouldn't think to put 1 ply over 2. I could see that being an effective setup actually and not just for an audiences pleasure. That setup would give the player a low attack and fat tone sound instead of a high attack and fat tone with the two ply on top, as two ply gives a greater attack when struck. Interesting post Bo. I wonder what a standard coated Ambassador or Ambassador X over coated Emps would sound like lol!

:)
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: Pinstripes over _______?

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Sorry for the double post, just gonna conclude this thread.

I put coated ambassadors over the pinstripes, replacing the G2s that were on and now I have much more open drums! I haven't dialed them in yet, but I'm digging the extra resonance i'm getting out of them, will be handy for unmicced gigs! Hopefully I'll have recordings of our band with the drums, but for now here's two that we've done with a house set.

http://soundcloud.com/gallons-corner
If you want to get even more open go Ambs over Ambs. That's the most open sound you can get on any drum IMO. Even more open than using any Diplomat heads in there, because Dips die sooner than Ambs. Ambs ring out longer. I've come to the conclusion that 10 mil heads are, to my ear, the best balance of attack, and tone. 2 ply heads sound superior to the drummer but inferior to the audience. The nice rich tones don't carry and it dies sooner. Whereas the "annoying" single ply overtones make the drums shine through. Single ply heads, tuned medium tight, will sound like toms at the back of the room, not thuds.
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:12 PM
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Default Re: Pinstripes over _______?

Haha, I meant I put the Pinstripes over Coated Ambassadors. My bad! But yeah, it's a nice combo, but I get some high pitched overtones post-hit that I'm going to work on getting under control, I have a feeling that under a close mic situation it wont sound too good the way it is, but I do have the resos tuned up higher than the batters atm. I'm going to try tuning to the same pitch next.
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:34 AM
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Default Re: Pinstripes over _______?

Oh if you're miced then whatever you want.
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:24 AM
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Default Re: Pinstripes over _______?

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Actually Bo you could be right. I tend to think inside the box, which would then keep me from exploring and discovering new ways to go about doing things. I never take the initiative to do things that are not by the book so I wouldn't think to put 1 ply over 2. I could see that being an effective setup actually and not just for an audiences pleasure. That setup would give the player a low attack and fat tone sound instead of a high attack and fat tone with the two ply on top, as two ply gives a greater attack when struck. Interesting post Bo. I wonder what a standard coated Ambassador or Ambassador X over coated Emps would sound like lol!

:)
Well, you know, I think it's interesting stuff, discussing what different heads would do, but I like to think I've been playing long enough that, at the end of the day, nobody cares. People see drums, and if they sound like drums, that's all I really care about. If I'm walking into a rental situation, just make it ambassadors top and bottom and I'll sound like me. Hell, it almost doesn't matter what's on a drum nowadays, I'll make it sound like a drum. This must be my advantage for having grown up in the 70s - we didn't have the ad infinitum head choices that are available today, and back then I was playing so much I might've been changing out batter heads every three weeks anyway.

There's a few Stuff videos with Steve Gadd playing from the 70s, and ironically, you listen to him today, he sounds the same!
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:13 AM
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Haha, I meant I put the Pinstripes over Coated Ambassadors. My bad! But yeah, it's a nice combo, but I get some high pitched overtones post-hit that I'm going to work on getting under control, I have a feeling that under a close mic situation it wont sound too good the way it is, but I do have the resos tuned up higher than the batters atm. I'm going to try tuning to the same pitch next.
Rofl! I thought so, no biggie but still would be interesting to try lol! :)


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Well, you know, I think it's interesting stuff, discussing what different heads would do, but I like to think I've been playing long enough that, at the end of the day, nobody cares. This must be my advantage for having grown up in the 70s - we didn't have the ad infinitum head choices that are available today, and back then I was playing so much I might've been changing out batter heads every three weeks anyway. There's a few Stuff videos with Steve Gadd playing from the 70s, and ironically, you listen to him today, he sounds the same!
Oh yeah I love talking shop about drums and especially drum heads but I would love it even more if I had the money to actually TRY different head combos lol! Also yeah, hooray for being able to post process and EQ the drums to what ever sound you want now-a-days lol. :)
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