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  #1  
Old 03-31-2012, 02:10 AM
spyder18 spyder18 is offline
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Default oil-filled heads

Anybody got any opinions on these? I'm looking for a way to make my cheap Ludwig kit a little less 'boingy' while retaining attack and feel.
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Old 03-31-2012, 02:30 AM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

You will definitely get rid of the "boingy". The feel of those may not be what you are looking for. To me they feel like I;m playing a plastic 5 gallon bucket.

What kind of Ludwig kit do you have? Even the budget and beginner lines should sound pretty good with most single ply heads from Evans, Aquarian, Remo, etc. Moon Gels take care of overtones. I would stay away from those hydraulics unless you try them out first. They are really dead.
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Old 03-31-2012, 03:03 AM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

my guess is its not heads, and i'd avoid oil-filled like the plague.
your kit likely needs re-tuning. your kit should sound fine with normal heads. boingy is an overtone you could get rid of, getting batter and reso in sync, and also maybe not tuning as high?
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Old 03-31-2012, 03:14 AM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

There's a heap of non-oil filled heads that will do the job too. If you're finding normal single or double ply heads just too much, then check out many of the pre-muffled heads out there. I'm really only familiar with Remo so can offer up things like Pinstripes, Controlled Sounds, PS3's or PS4's, Emperor X's etc. But both Evans and Aquarian offer similar pre-muffled products too. Many of them are quite heavy and will reduce most overtones.

Of course, if totally removing them is your aim, then Hydraulics will certainly fit the bill. I just personally think there are better options out there.
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Old 03-31-2012, 03:26 AM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

Remo PS3
Aquarian Performance-II
Aquarian Studio-X
Aquarian Super-2
Evans EC2

Just some of the choices that you have along with the oil heads.
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  #6  
Old 03-31-2012, 03:59 AM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

I've got hydraulics on an 18" bass drum and an 8" tom (bought it used that way).

I really like it on the bass, and really don't like it on the tom. They pretty much completely 'deaden' the sound, removing almost all overtones, and leave you with a solid 'thump'. You may like it, but there's only way one to tell.

Like others have said, there are plenty of other less drastic heads to choose from though.
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Old 03-31-2012, 06:52 AM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

I use Evans blue hydraulic heads all the way around on my Zickos kit. I love the way they sound. I have a few for sale cheap (selling for a friend). 6". 8", 10", 12", 15", 16", 18" in blue, black and clear. $2 - $10. PM me for more info.
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Old 03-31-2012, 07:06 AM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

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Originally Posted by Zickos View Post
I use Evans blue hydraulic heads all the way around on my Zickos kit. I love the way they sound.
And indeed, hydraulic heads are a perfect match for acrylic drums. Zickos and Vistalite (I owned both) drums are especially bright. Zickos came stock with red hydraulics, if my memory is correct. Personally, I liked Pinstripe (batter) and Ambassador (reso) the best.
Back to the OP, I'd use Pinstripe or Powerstroke 3 (batter).
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:22 PM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

Sorry... but I believe, perhaps I'm mistaken... but Pinstripes and Emperor heads have no "oil" or fluid of any kind... that "liquid effect" you see is the way the two plies affect light.
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

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Originally Posted by Guillermo View Post
Sorry... but I believe, perhaps I'm mistaken... but Pinstripes and Emperor heads have no "oil" or fluid of any kind... that "liquid effect" you see is the way the two plies affect light.
those heads are listed as alternatives here, no one is saying they're oil filled.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:26 AM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

Ok... thanks.. it's just that someone reading might have gotten that idea!
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:48 AM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

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Originally Posted by spyder18 View Post
a little less 'boingy' while retaining attack and feel.
Boingy is a product of tuning. You can tune out boing. Usually, when the batter head is tensioned tighter than the reso head, you get the boing. Make the reso head tighter than the batter. You can test the theory by turning the drum around and hitting the reso head. It should sound less boingy if it's looser than the batter.

Oil filled heads.....no thanks. I'll take your overtones.

Last edited by larryace; 04-13-2012 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:26 AM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

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Originally Posted by Guillermo View Post
Sorry... but I believe, perhaps I'm mistaken... but Pinstripes and Emperor heads have no "oil" or fluid of any kind... that "liquid effect" you see is the way the two plies affect light.
That's correct - you can get an oil "Look" from a non oil filled 2 ply.

If you saw how little the amount of oil is in an Evans Hydraylic, you would not believe it, its just a tiny wipe of an oil filled cloth over the ply.
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:09 PM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

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Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
And indeed, hydraulic heads are a perfect match for acrylic drums. Zickos and Vistalite (I owned both) drums are especially bright. Zickos came stock with red hydraulics, if my memory is correct.
Actually, I think they were blue hydraulics.
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Boingy is a product of tuning. You can tune out boing. Usually, when the batter head is tensioned tighter than the reso head, you get the boing. Make the batter head tighter than the reso. You can test the theory by turning the drum around and hitting the reso head. It should sound less boingy if it's looser than the batter.
Sorry, but I don't understand this - I'm still working on learning proper tuning myself - do you get a 'boing' when the batter is tighter than the reso head or vice verse?
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  #16  
Old 04-13-2012, 07:31 PM
EvansSpecialist EvansSpecialist is offline
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

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Originally Posted by 720hours World Record View Post
If you saw how little the amount of oil is in an Evans Hydraylic, you would not believe it, its just a tiny wipe of an oil filled cloth over the ply.
Yup! It's quite a small amount but it definitely does the trick. It always blows me away how some people trash the Hydraulic series, yet when I see what they're using, it's a two-ply with a studio ring, moongel and a duct tape...
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

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Originally Posted by eric_B View Post
Sorry, but I don't understand this - I'm still working on learning proper tuning myself - do you get a 'boing' when the batter is tighter than the reso head or vice verse?
I'm sorry, I messed up the wording in that post. I edited it. What I meant to say is keep the reso tighter than the batter. A tight batter and a looser reso sounds boingy to me. A looser batter and a tighter reso sounds much more punchy to me.
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:50 PM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

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Originally Posted by EvansSpecialist View Post
Yup! It's quite a small amount but it definitely does the trick. It always blows me away how some people trash the Hydraulic series, yet when I see what they're using, it's a two-ply with a studio ring, moongel and a duct tape...
HA! Very true. People use the thinnest, ringiest heads on their drums and complain about how thin and ringy they are, then stuff pillows, blankets, mattresses and engine blocks into their drums and duct-tape tampons to the heads to kill the sound as much as possible (don't laugh, there are photos of that somewhere around here). But if you suggest hydraulic heads, they're like, "No WAY would I ever do that to my drums!!"
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  #19  
Old 04-14-2012, 08:13 AM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I'm sorry, I messed up the wording in that post. I edited it. What I meant to say is keep the reso tighter than the batter. A tight batter and a looser reso sounds boingy to me. A looser batter and a tighter reso sounds much more punchy to me.
OK, thanks, that's what I found out as well.
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Old 04-14-2012, 04:35 PM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

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Originally Posted by EvansSpecialist View Post
Yup! It's quite a small amount but it definitely does the trick. It always blows me away how some people trash the Hydraulic series, yet when I see what they're using, it's a two-ply with a studio ring, moongel and a duct tape...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
HA! Very true. People use the thinnest, ringiest heads on their drums and complain about how thin and ringy they are, then stuff pillows, blankets, mattresses and engine blocks into their drums and duct-tape tampons to the heads to kill the sound as much as possible (don't laugh, there are photos of that somewhere around here). But if you suggest hydraulic heads, they're like, "No WAY would I ever do that to my drums!!"
Reason why they do this is that hydraulic, 2 plys and even dot heads not only remove the overtones but they also reduce / remove some of the warm resonance, attack and lower tones as well. Using a thinner head, the right tuning and if need be adding a studio ring or some moon jell to the outside edge allows you to remove most of the unwanted odd harmonic over tones and still keep most of the resonance, all of the tone and attack. I have tried just about every type of heads available over the last 33 years and from the audience point of view, miced or unmiced the fullest sound with the most attack and lowest tuning is achieved by using singly ply heads. I do agree with you Deathmetalconga about pillows and blackets in the bass drum tho, as it reduces the cubic area of the drum and basically turns 22's into 20's and 20's into 18's etc. For all the drummers that prefer a muffled kick as apposed to an open sounding one and with all the premuffled heads available a good kick drum sound should be able to be found without having to be stuffed.
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  #21  
Old 04-14-2012, 08:46 PM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

Ive been using Remo Pinstripes since 2005. They are a good skin and dont kill the tone of the drum and they are so easy to tune, nut fussy at all. I love them, they give a crazy good bass response.
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:21 PM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

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Originally Posted by sbowman128675 View Post
Ive been using Remo Pinstripes since 2005. They are a good skin and dont kill the tone of the drum and they are so easy to tune, nut fussy at all. I love them, they give a crazy good bass response.
A single ply would still allow you to tune lower and give you more attack. A 2 ply head tricks you into thinking its lower because of the reduced higher frequences but the single ply has a wider range, high and low.
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:41 AM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

I would try the EC2s to get a more controlled sound. They get rid of some of the overtones and give a nice fat sound, have a decent tunning range.

I use clear G2s on the toms. Great balance of resonance, tone, attack.
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Old 04-15-2012, 05:07 AM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

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Originally Posted by EvansSpecialist View Post
Yup! It's quite a small amount but it definitely does the trick. It always blows me away how some people trash the Hydraulic series, yet when I see what they're using, it's a two-ply with a studio ring, moongel and a duct tape...
Most of my life I have been playing drums and a good part of that time I have also been setting up and running sound in live events. I also do a lot of recording in the studio.

The fascination with drummers having to get the maximum resonance is always a battle with the sound engineers. Itís real easy in a live event and in a studio to add depth and resonance to drums (hydraulic heads are very easy to record) - itís very hard to remove too much resonance and sustain.
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:33 AM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

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Originally Posted by 720hours World Record View Post
Most of my life I have been playing drums and a good part of that time I have also been setting up and running sound in live events. I also do a lot of recording in the studio.

The fascination with drummers having to get the maximum resonance is always a battle with the sound engineers. It’s real easy in a live event and in a studio to add depth and resonance to drums (hydraulic heads are very easy to record) - it’s very hard to remove too much resonance and sustain.
I have had studio engineers want to deaden my toms only to add reverb and delay to make them sound more resonant than they were originally, but found it also makes them less warm and have less attack, plus it reduces stick definition and dynamics. Then I have talked them into recording them both ways and in the end everyone agreed that the natural resonance sounds much better than effects. BTW its very easy to remove resonance and sustain if you really want to or need to just by using a gate, even compressor / limiters can help some and a lot of the recording software will now allow you to go in and just by dragging the mouse you can change everything including pitch, tempo and length of each note, be it vocals or instruments.

Last edited by tard; 04-15-2012 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

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I have had studio engineers want to deaden my toms ...... BTW its very easy to remove resonance and sustain if you really want to or need to just by using a gate....
Gates are a band-aid, I use them more for noisy instruments. If you have ever used a gate on Toms they never work well in all cases, mostly sounding unnatural with pumping during a roll or cutting off the tail strangely.
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:04 PM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

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Originally Posted by 720hours World Record View Post
Gates are a band-aid, I use them more for noisy instruments. If you have ever used a gate on Toms they never work well in all cases, mostly sounding unnatural with pumping during a roll or cutting off the tail strangely.
Band aid? Yes! But if set up properly can be used in toms and still sound natural and no pumping, they just have to close slowly instead of slamming shut but have never had to use them on my kit anyway, I tune my toms with as much resonance as I can possibly get but tune out and sometimes still need a moon jell on large toms to remove the odd harmonic overtones and have never had a problem. Like I said studio engineers have said they are just way too resonant and want them dead only to add reverb and delay to give them a longer decay than they were originally. Why? Just because they are used to doing it that way and it becomes routine because many times they are working with entry or intermediate kits that are sometimes harder to tune with no overtones.
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

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........., I tune my toms with as much resonance as I can possibly get but tune out and sometimes still need a moon jell on large toms to remove the odd harmonic overtones and have never had a problem. Like I said studio engineers have said they are just way too resonant and want them dead only to add reverb and delay to give them a longer decay than they were originally. Why? Just because they are used to doing it that way and it becomes routine because many times they are working with entry or intermediate kits that are sometimes harder to tune with no overtones.


Back to the thread topic of oil filled skins (many drummers seem to bash them, without owning them). Well in my case - I am the drummer, I am the recording engineer, I am the mix engineer and the producer. I have many kits with different heads on them, side by side in my studio. The easiest heads to record are the Hydraulics, hands down. I spend more time trying to FIX the mix with drummer’s resonant kits than if they were to use the hydraulic set. Usually drums have to FIT with other instruments in the mix of a song, a resonant kit tends to drown out other instruments and vocals IMO.
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Old 04-15-2012, 11:47 PM
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Default Re: oil-filled heads

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Originally Posted by 720hours World Record View Post
Back to the thread topic of oil filled skins (many drummers seem to bash them, without owning them). Well in my case - I am the drummer, I am the recording engineer, I am the mix engineer and the producer. I have many kits with different heads on them, side by side in my studio. The easiest heads to record are the Hydraulics, hands down. I spend more time trying to FIX the mix with drummerís resonant kits than if they were to use the hydraulic set. Usually drums have to FIT with other instruments in the mix of a song, a resonant kit tends to drown out other instruments and vocals IMO.
To each his own and I to am a drummer and an engineer an I prefer natural resonance instead of adding reverb and delay to heads that sound like nothing other than wet cardboard IMO. The loss of warmth, tone and attack is not worth the saved studio time. Just cause its easier dont mean its right. Plus I will still bet by the time your done adding effects the decay on the toms with hydraulics is longer than it would be if they had well tuned single plys on them. With no exaggeration I have made at least 5 or 6 engineers eat crow on this exact debate after recording my kit their way then my way and listening to both finished products.
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