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  #1  
Old 03-05-2012, 10:39 PM
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iontheable iontheable is offline
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Default Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

So last weekend I drove an hour out to the nearest GC to pick up a Tune-Bot..I have a decent set of ears when it comes to tuning..but its a long process for me...my aim with the Tune-Bot was to clarify my tuning methods as well as solidify my ability to properly differentiate minute tonal differences.

Upon first opening the box I thought the device looked pretty well thought of and after much research the options built in sounded, well..sound.

However..I cannot seem to use it properly and I am wondering if anyone else is having the same issues. I've watch their instructional video a few times and while its not a hard concept to grasp..I cannot for the life of me create consistent results.

I've loosened my head(s) several times, then bring them up evenly to begin tuning, however, when striking the center of the head I'll come up with, say 240Hz and the next hit(without touching a lug) I'll produce 170Hz..The same problem occurs when trying to find the tone of a single lug. I'll place my finger in the center of the drum head to avoid overtones and whack close to a lug a couple times..every consecutive hit is resolving a different tone..

So what is the deal? This is apparent with every drum I own..I've tried them all, on their proper settings and I've literally spent hours on this..

Thanks

Last edited by iontheable; 03-05-2012 at 11:38 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-05-2012, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

I don't own one, but there are some explanations in this thread:

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=87595
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  #3  
Old 03-05-2012, 11:07 PM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
I don't own one, but there are some explanations in this thread:

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=87595
Thanks for chiming in, but I had already gone through that entire thread and it was that thread that initially turned me onto Tune-Bot

However, no one in that thread seems to mention the issues I am having.
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  #4  
Old 03-05-2012, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Here is a video demonstrating the randomness of the Tune-Bot...

http://youtu.be/izGi-Ade2us
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  #5  
Old 03-06-2012, 01:11 AM
Soupy Soupy is offline
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

I'd suggest putting the drum on your throne or a pillow or some such to mute the bottom head. And you need to be a lot more precise in where and how hard you hit the drum.

Also, it would have been better to ask this question in the hardware forum.
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  #6  
Old 03-06-2012, 01:13 AM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

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Originally Posted by Soupy View Post
I'd suggest putting the drum on your throne or a pillow or some such to mute the bottom head. And you need to be a lot more precise in where and how hard you hit the drum.

Also, it would have been better to ask this question in the hardware forum.
In that video, the drum is sitting on pair of sweatpants, completely muffling the lower head.

I know I'm a bit all over the place in the video, I was trying to watch the phone-camera while striking the head. However, the results are the same unevenness even when striking accurately.
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  #7  
Old 03-06-2012, 01:24 AM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

I'm still saving my money for the pneumatic tubes under the rims for the ultimate in tuning ease.
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  #8  
Old 03-06-2012, 02:37 AM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

That's a great video you did with proof of the odd frequency readings. I also had gotten the same results when using the TB.

What I've done is start out with muting the bottom head (like you've done), and keep hitting the exact same spot (as best as possible). When a funky reading appeared, I would move the device over to another area of the hoop which then provided more consistent readings - ON THAT PARTICULAR LUG. Let's say you keep it there...you will probably get funky readings on other lugs now. So I suppose you just have to reposition the device whenever that happens - even with hitting the center of the drum head.

I tried explaining this to the TB guys and they were surprised my readings would be that extreme. They thought perhaps 10-20 hz or something. Now you have proof that they could see. It might be a good idea to give them a call. They seem pretty social and easy to talk to. Then you could email them the video you took and see what they say.

From their website http://www.tune-bot.com (978) 640-0184 or email sales@tune-bot.com

I'm not a tech guy, but I do wonder if the device is truly picking up those readings because of odd harmonics or something.

I exchanged my first one because i thought there was something wrong with it due to this issue...same thing is happenning with the 2nd one.

For now, I just reposition it and keep the 2 year warranty handy...

Last edited by BigDinSD; 03-06-2012 at 02:50 AM.
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  #9  
Old 03-06-2012, 02:55 AM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDinSD View Post
That's a great video you did with proof of the odd frequency readings. I also had gotten the same results when using the TB.

What I've done is start out with muting the bottom head (like you've done), and keep hitting the exact same spot (as best as possible). When a funky reading appeared, I would move the device over to another area of the hoop which then provided more consistent readings - ON THAT PARTICULAR LUG. Let's say you keep it there...you will probably get funky readings on other lugs now. So I suppose you just have to reposition the device whenever that happens - even with hitting the center of the drum head.

I tried explaining this to the TB guys and they were surprised my readings would be that extreme. They thought perhaps 10-20 hz or something. Now you have proof that they could see. It might be a good idea to give them a call. They seem pretty social and easy to talk to. Then you could email them the video you took and see what they say.

From their website http://www.tune-bot.com (978) 640-0184 or email sales@tune-bot.com

I'm not a tech guy, but I do wonder if the device is truly picking up those readings because of odd harmonics or something.

I exchanged my first one because i thought there was something wrong with it due to this issue...same thing is happenning with the 2nd one.

For now, I just reposition it and keep the 2 year warranty handy...
Thanks for the reply Sin, glad to see I am not alone in this. I will make another video where my strikes are more accurate and concise, that way they cannot argue that its "user error" And I will email that to them and see what they say. I've had differences as extreme as 100Hz...

And refresh my memory on the warranty, is that Tune-Bot's general warranty or GC's pro coverage you're referring to?

Thanks again!
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  #10  
Old 03-06-2012, 03:08 AM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Okay so I've made a video where I strike the same drum, although this time it is more accurate and the results still waver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ojpr...ature=youtu.be

Thanks
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  #11  
Old 03-06-2012, 03:22 AM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iontheable View Post
Okay so I've made a video where I strike the same drum, although this time it is more accurate and the results still waver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ojpr...ature=youtu.be

Thanks
Yeah - I saw that thing jump about 100 hz. Funny the TB guys were surprised when I brought this up, since it's happenning to at least 2 peeps. That's a good video. BTW, they may have you put the filter on. I'm not sure how that really works, but that's what they told me, especially if you have other noises going on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iontheable View Post
Thanks for the reply Sin, glad to see I am not alone in this. I will make another video where my strikes are more accurate and concise, that way they cannot argue that its "user error" And I will email that to them and see what they say. I've had differences as extreme as 100Hz...

And refresh my memory on the warranty, is that Tune-Bot's general warranty or GC's pro coverage you're referring to?

Thanks again!
Hell (I mean heck) I bought the 2 year warranty for $16 bucks. I think the TB's warranty is 1 year. Keep us posted when you chat with them. I'm getting around the funky extremes by repositioning for now...Besides those oddities, it seems to be accurate (judging by my ears).

But I'd really like to know why it's doing that.
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  #12  
Old 03-06-2012, 03:26 AM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDinSD View Post

But I'd really like to know why it's doing that.
Exactly, I am trying to eliminate these 'variables' that are giving me wonky results.

As far as "filter" mode, essentially, to my understanding it aids in eliminating the over-tones and helps focus on the actual tone of the individual strike. It is of course meant for single lug strikes; not as they refer to it as the "fundamental" tone.

I went ahead and wrote them an email and forwarded that video along with it.

I'll keep the thread updated.

For the most part the device is 'pretty' accurate..but the video I watched on their site was SPOT-ON
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  #13  
Old 03-06-2012, 05:07 AM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

I haven't posted anything about the Tune Bot that I received a little over a week ago, but I'm glad I saw this thread before I requested my replacement unit. I was trying to use the one I have this evening doing an eight head replacement on my Ludwig kit. The readings were all over the place and nothing matched what my ears were hearing. I always had the opposite head muffled with either a cloth between the head and the work table or the carpet in the room when trying to use this device. I don't muffle the opposit head most of the time when I'm tuining by ear. I'm still going to work with it when I have the time, but I had to leave it sit so I could get the job done, lol.

I may still buy a second unit just to compare it to the first, but I have a gut feeling that there won't be much accuracy between the two. A lot of companies really cringe when it comes to directly comparing two of the same units back to back. I've seen this a lot with electronic test equipment. I really hate to say this, but it's what I really thought it would be with some of the problems I brought up weeks ago. I'm not through with it though.

Dennis
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  #14  
Old 03-06-2012, 06:48 AM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

I only watched the second video. Besides jumping up to 399ish occasionally I don't see it jumping around too wildly.

Can one of the audio guys explain how this thing works? Is it listening to the high overtones or the lower body part of the sound?

Have you tried using something softer like a mallet? I stick a cymbal felt on the end of a stick and that works well. Also silencing the head between strikes might help. Just an idea but I guess you have already tried that.
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  #15  
Old 03-06-2012, 06:50 AM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Haven't received mine yet. Has anyone tried to dampen the head back to total silence before striking again? Just a thought.
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  #16  
Old 03-06-2012, 12:05 PM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iontheable View Post
As far as "filter" mode, essentially, to my understanding it aids in eliminating the over-tones and helps focus on the actual tone of the individual strike. It is of course meant for single lug strikes
Well, yes, and it's the different overtones that are giving you the different readings you're getting. Find a lug that gives you a more consistent value, the hit filter. It shouldn't be hard to get a baseline note to use for comparison unless the drum is just waaaay out of tune and the overtones are really bad.

In that second video, it looks like you're getting very consistent results around 292 Hz. Just hit filter and go with it.
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  #17  
Old 03-06-2012, 03:26 PM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kettles View Post
Can one of the audio guys explain how this thing works? Is it listening to the high overtones or the lower body part of the sound?
I would seek an audience from the honorable Mr. audiotech :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
I may still buy a second unit just to compare it to the first, but I have a gut feeling that there won't be much accuracy between the two. A lot of companies really cringe when it comes to directly comparing two of the same units back to back. I've seen this a lot with electronic test equipment.

Dennis
Wouldn't you have to mount both TB's in exact location, one after another and hit the same spot dead-on to test against each other? I'm thinking there would be some "user" variance in this method.

Either way, would love to hear what your synopsis is as your knowledge in this area is respected on this forum sir...

I've got a 14" floor tom I'll work on later. From what I recall, the lugs that gave me the funky readings were usually 90 degrees from where the TB was positioned. However, I also got funky readings when hitting center of head.

I'm wondering; Are the extreme readings common for a device like this? Could any of it be a defect? HOW DO THEY CALIBRATE or Test this thing at the factory?
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  #18  
Old 03-06-2012, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Hi guys,
I'm with Overtone Labs, the makers of the tune-bot. Someone told me I should checkout this forum.

Anyway, I've looked at the videos posted. Looking at the videos, I think the bottom head is muffled, is this correct? When the bottom head is muffled don't bother hitting in the center of the head, you cannot get the fundamental when one head is muffled.

The readings around 292 are the correct lug pitches. The 399 is an unwanted higher overtone. The filter mode should eliminate this. Perhaps you thought filter mode was on, it can sometimes double trigger. I know the filter mode was off because the * was not showing or a number in the reference display.

Feel free to email me: simon@tune-bot.com if any of you have any questions.
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Old 03-06-2012, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
I haven't posted anything about the Tune Bot that I received a little over a week ago, but I'm glad I saw this thread before I requested my replacement unit. I was trying to use the one I have this evening doing an eight head replacement on my Ludwig kit. The readings were all over the place and nothing matched what my ears were hearing. I always had the opposite head muffled with either a cloth between the head and the work table or the carpet in the room when trying to use this device. I don't muffle the opposit head most of the time when I'm tuining by ear. I'm still going to work with it when I have the time, but I had to leave it sit so I could get the job done, lol.

I may still buy a second unit just to compare it to the first, but I have a gut feeling that there won't be much accuracy between the two. A lot of companies really cringe when it comes to directly comparing two of the same units back to back. I've seen this a lot with electronic test equipment. I really hate to say this, but it's what I really thought it would be with some of the problems I brought up weeks ago. I'm not through with it though.

Dennis
Dennis,
If you could send me a video, I could try to evaluate what's going on.
simon@tune-bot.com
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Old 03-06-2012, 05:27 PM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

I'm definitely paying attention to this thread as I'm considering getting a tune bot. I hope not much of this is solved through PM's as I'd like to be privy to as much information as possible and this thread could serve that purpose.
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  #21  
Old 03-06-2012, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sribner View Post
Dennis,
If you could send me a video, I could try to evaluate what's going on.
simon@tune-bot.com
Welcome to the forum. Have you had a chance to see video below?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iontheable View Post
Okay so I've made a video where I strike the same drum, although this time it is more accurate and the results still waver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ojpr...ature=youtu.be

Thanks
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  #22  
Old 03-06-2012, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Yes, I've seen the video.

In this case, the filter button should be pushed after reading 292. This will prevent the 399 reading. Also, if you put your finger 90 degrees, 1-2 inches from the hoop (quarter of the drum) from the lug hit, that will also suppress the 399 overtone. The finger can be 90 degrees in either direction. Anyway, you shouldn't need to use the finger method as long as you're using the filter mode.
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:51 PM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sribner View Post
Yes, I've seen the video.

In this case, the filter button should be pushed after reading 292. This will prevent the 399 reading. Also, if you put your finger 90 degrees, 1-2 inches from the hoop (quarter of the drum) from the lug hit, that will also suppress the 399 overtone. The finger can be 90 degrees in either direction. Anyway, you shouldn't need to use the finger method as long as you're using the filter mode.
Thanks for the education. I think we were searching (at least I was) for an understanding and strategy. I suppose it takes more practice and use.

BTW, thanks for taking my call last week. I'm enjoying the product more with each use and your input is valued.
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:59 PM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDinSD View Post
Thanks for the education. I think we were searching (at least I was) for an understanding and strategy. I suppose it takes more practice and use.

BTW, thanks for taking my call last week. I'm enjoying the product more with each use and your input is valued.
Thanks for the welcome to drummers world. It's good to hear of the problems people are having so we can work on making things more clear.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:25 PM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soupy View Post

In that second video, it looks like you're getting very consistent results around 292 Hz. Just hit filter and go with it.
Right exactly. Here is a graphic illustration of how the filter mode works. In the illustration you can see the lug overtone is 180 and unwanted overtone is 290. In the second video the lug pitch is 290 and unwanted overtone is 397.
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  #26  
Old 03-07-2012, 12:47 AM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

@Sribner - thank you for chiming in and welcome to DW

Also, thanks for fielding my email with such quick responses!


*UPDATES*

I have several tips for the new Tune-Bot users:

-Completely muffle the head that you are not working with. This was an attributing issue I was having before at some points(I believe). Merely resting the drum on your knee will only partially muffle the vibrations.

-Do not try to tune too closely to other drums that are not muffled, I found while I was making some micro adjustments at the kit, even while in Filter mode the resonance from other drums was making the readings extremely inaccurate.( I know, you're saying "DUH" right now)

-I prefer to mute the drum head, by touching it and absorbing the vibrations after EVERY strike. I found this helps a lot.


Otherwise, I worked with the Tune-Bot for nearly 2.5 hours today(for a working man such as myself, that's a lot!) and my results were much better than in my previous efforts. It will still take some getting used to and getting to know all the little quarky..dare I say "issues" But I have no real complaints. And the people over at Overtone Labs have been incredibly supportive in my learning their product.

And after this time spend today, I was able to get my 10, 12, 14 and 16 Toms to a reasonable sound. However, as a side note, my 16 is still muddy and will need some work.


Here are two videos, the first being some tuning; I know the individual lugs are off, but this video is here to present the consistency that I did in fact experience. There is a bit of tone wavering towards the end..not sure where I am still going wrong at times..

http://youtu.be/OfeGkoj6zZs


The second video here is just a brief clip of my toms recorded on my phone..I swear I can actually play the drums (>,<) this was standing up with a phone in my mouth(video camcorder) haha!

http://youtu.be/Hs-sBD3XghY


Aside from my 16" tom I really love the sound of them! I've always tuned by ear and the Tune-Bot has proven to me that I do in fact have a set of ears!! The majority of my lugs were within +/- 5Hz tops- prior to using the tune-bot. Now that I'm getting more efficient and proficient with the Tune-Bot I'll have to experiment with more abstract tuning.
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:58 AM
audiotech
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDinSD View Post
I would seek an audience from the honorable Mr. audiotech :-)



Wouldn't you have to mount both TV's in exact location, one after another and hit the same spot dead-on to test against each other? I'm thinking there would be some "user" variance in this method.

Either way, would love to hear what your synopsis is as your knowledge in this area is respected on this forum sir...

I've got a 14" floor tom I'll work on later. From what I recall, the lugs that gave me the funky readings were usually 90 degrees from where the TB was positioned. However, I also got funky readings when hitting center of head.

I'm wondering; Are the extreme readings common for a device like this? Could any of it be a defect? HOW DO THEY CALIBRATE or Test this thing at the factory?
First of all, I would love to open one up and see what makes it tick, but I probably wouldn't see much of anything anyway. Besides, the unit I have belongs to someone else. He was getting discrepancies in it's readout and he asked me if I would also check it out, so that's what I'm doing. The second Tune Bot would be coming out of my own pocket, so neither one is going to make it to my workbench for dismantling, lol. Much of the time but not all, inexpensive units such as these do not have internal pots to calibrate them, instead the inherent calibration usually stems from the tolerances of the parts used to manufacture them. I said usually because I've never seen the inside of a Tune Bot. My impression is that it is very much like a frequency counter with a sampling microphone.

To check the accuracy or tolerance of a sampling device such as this it probably should be placed at exactly the same spot but, from what I hear and read, the Tune Bot should be able to read (hear) the sample from anyplace on the drum hoop, so some experimentation would have to be made. When I get readings more similar than not, this is probably the best place for the comparisons. I know I was using the filter mode when attempting to tune the heads using the device.

As of my latest experience, there are more variables to taking "correct" readings than what was originally portrayed. How do you really know if all your ducks are in a row to really know if the frequency read out or note indicated is accurate to what your drum is emitting. This factor could very well be close, but it really doesn't have to be dead on. What's more important with equipment such as this is its repeatability, getting the same reading every time before or after a tuning adjustment is made to the drum. With more variables you can only expect less repeatability of the readings. As I said before, I haven't given up on it yet. I am going to experiment with the sampling level of the unit just to see if I can get a gated reading from an accurate frequency source, just for grins and giggles.

BTW, I don't own a video camera, but I'll report back with my findings, when possible, within these threads.

Dennis

Last edited by audiotech; 03-07-2012 at 04:43 AM. Reason: explanation
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  #28  
Old 03-07-2012, 04:48 AM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soupy View Post
Just hit filter and go with it.
Advice well taken. I did this, and results are more consistent. I'm pleased enough where I don't need to interpret or understand the explanation below :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sribner View Post
Right exactly. Here is a graphic illustration of how the filter mode works. In the illustration you can see the lug overtone is 180 and unwanted overtone is 290. In the second video the lug pitch is 290 and unwanted overtone is 397.
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  #29  
Old 03-07-2012, 05:01 AM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iontheable View Post
Aside from my 16" tom I really love the sound of them! I've always tuned by ear and the Tune-Bot has proven to me that I do in fact have a set of ears!! The majority of my lugs were within +/- 5Hz tops- prior to using the tune-bot. Now that I'm getting more efficient and proficient with the Tune-Bot I'll have to experiment with more abstract tuning.
What are you using for batter and reso frequencies on the 14" and 16" tom?

I figured I could now start asking what frequencies people favor. Why not? The drum dial users ask what tension others use.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:31 AM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iontheable View Post


Here are two videos, the first being some tuning; I know the individual lugs are off, but this video is here to present the consistency that I did in fact experience. There is a bit of tone wavering towards the end..not sure where I am still going wrong at times..

http://youtu.be/OfeGkoj6zZs


The second video here is just a brief clip of my toms recorded on my phone..I swear I can actually play the drums (>,<) this was standing up with a phone in my mouth(video camcorder) haha!

http://youtu.be/Hs-sBD3XghY
I've not tried one of these units yet, & I'm keen to see what Dennis comes up with, but I did spot a couple of issues on these videos. Specifically the first video, your strike point on the drum varies in position each time. The variety, & especially the dominance of overtones will vary considerably with only a small variation in strike position. When using any digital tuning device, consistency in the way you present information is more important than when tuning with your ears. Your brain has a way of compensating for your presentation inaccuracies that the tuner does not possess.

In the second clip (toms playing), your toms do seem to produce a lot of higher overtones. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, each to his own, but such an application will make life a bit more difficult for this device compared to a tuning with a cleaner fundamental tone. That said, it's great that a variety of applications are used to test this product.

As I don't possess one of these products yet, I'm watching from the sidelines with great interest. Thanks for putting this information out there :)
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  #31  
Old 03-07-2012, 07:55 PM
Mike Armstrong Mike Armstrong is offline
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Thanks for being here Sribner, I think you've got a product with allot of potential, it just needs further explanation.

One thing I'm concerned about is using your finger to muffle the head. I would think that there would be too much variance in trying to physically keep the same exact pressure and location on the head each time. I'm wondering if something inanimate could be used like a small piece of drum gell or tape just to get a more consistant reading.

Also, can the Tune-Bot be used to find the fundamental note of a drum shell? (with the hardware on to make it more realistic to how the drum will actually be when used). I like the idea of tuning heads to a particular drums best resonance (Note). Thanks
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  #32  
Old 03-07-2012, 08:31 PM
Mike Armstrong Mike Armstrong is offline
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iontheable View Post
Here is a video demonstrating the randomness of the Tune-Bot...

http://youtu.be/izGi-Ade2us
One thing I noticed about this video is that the red light indicating a reading has been taken does not occur when rapidly striking the head. I would think you would want to strike the head evenly and slowly enough for the device to be able to 'accurately hear' (as indicated by the red light coming on) the head to give a consistant reading at the same spot on the head.
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  #33  
Old 03-07-2012, 09:02 PM
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iontheable iontheable is offline
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Armstrong View Post
One thing I noticed about this video is that the red light indicating a reading has been taken does not occur when rapidly striking the head. I would think you would want to strike the head evenly and slowly enough for the device to be able to 'accurately hear' (as indicated by the red light coming on) the head to give a consistant reading at the same spot on the head.

Certainly! And I've grown to understand this fact as well. Its not only the space you allow between the strikes, but the strength as well. It must register, which takes time and the proper amount of pressure. I was probably just rushing in the video. <--dummy :)
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  #34  
Old 03-07-2012, 09:03 PM
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iontheable iontheable is offline
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

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Originally Posted by BigDinSD View Post
What are you using for batter and reso frequencies on the 14" and 16" tom?

I figured I could now start asking what frequencies people favor. Why not? The drum dial users ask what tension others use.
I am actually using the "beginners" frequencies, if you will- that are posted inside the booklet that comes along with the Tune-Bot..I figured it was as good a spot to start as any.
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  #35  
Old 03-07-2012, 09:06 PM
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I've not tried one of these units yet, & I'm keen to see what Dennis comes up with, but I did spot a couple of issues on these videos. Specifically the first video, your strike point on the drum varies in position each time. The variety, & especially the dominance of overtones will vary considerably with only a small variation in strike position. When using any digital tuning device, consistency in the way you present information is more important than when tuning with your ears. Your brain has a way of compensating for your presentation inaccuracies that the tuner does not possess.

In the second clip (toms playing), your toms do seem to produce a lot of higher overtones. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, each to his own, but such an application will make life a bit more difficult for this device compared to a tuning with a cleaner fundamental tone. That said, it's great that a variety of applications are used to test this product.

As I don't possess one of these products yet, I'm watching from the sidelines with great interest. Thanks for putting this information out there :)
I agree with you about the superfluous-high overtones. I am using Response 2's over Classic Clears(Aquarian of course) and when I am tuning by ear I can make them sing and not really become too annoying with the abundance of overtones. I believe what you're hearing is not only my phone picking up..well, garbage..but also the tension of the heads themselves. I am not fond of the tuning currently, but I needed a place to start.
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  #36  
Old 03-08-2012, 07:28 AM
audiotech
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

This is going to be as boring as most anything technically you've ever read, but here goes. I worked with the Tune Bot tonight for a while and came away with some interesting results. Again I was using my 12" Ludwig Classic Maple rack tom which was already tuned and sounded great. I always use the filter mode because it gets me closer to what I'm hearing than without using it. At first I was holding the tom by its suspension mount, when I hit the center of the head the Tune Bot registered a reading of 107.6 cycles. OK, so about five seconds later I hit it again with a little more force, the reading now registered at 113 cycles.

Next I moved my 12" tom to my work table. I tried both a towel under the opposite head and also without it. I now have the Tune Bot at the 10 o'clock position on the hoop. I usually call tension rod #1 the lug just to the right of the logo on the drum head and the logo is always at the top of the drum. Tension rod #1 gave me a reading of 268 cycles, kinda of weird. #2 was 198.6, #3 was 198.7, #4 was 268.5, #5 was 199.1 and #6 was 198.6. All except tension rods 1 and 4 were pretty close, I was pretty proud of what my ears had done. I started working with rod #1, trying to ascertain why the Tune Bot was registering a semi harmonic instead of the specific fundamental. A true second harmonic would be the doubling of the fundamental frequency. I was hitting one inch behind each tension rod. No matter what I did, I could not get that reading back to the fundamental frequency of the other rods. I brought the tension down on both 1 and 4 and it still read 267 cycles at #1. For grins and giggles, I moved the Tune Bot and placed it at the 12 o'clock position on the hoop, wow, now it's reading 197.1, close to the fundamental frequency at the rest of the drums lugs. OK something is strange here, so I mover the Tune Bot back to the 10 o'clock position and again it's reading 262 cycles. I didn't adjust any tension rods between the times I moved the Tune Bot. The Tune Bot is supposed to be able to accurately read the sound from the head anywhere around the hoop. The tension rods 1 and 4 sounded a bit flat to my ears, but the device was not picking this up as a fundamental frequency, even though the "filter" was in the circuit at the time. I moved the Tune Bot to the 6 o'clock position of the hoop.and hit the area of the #1 tension rod again. The reading was 259.8 cycles, not touching anything, I gave it another hit five or six seconds later, now it was within a couple of cycles of the 2, 3, 5 and 6 tension rods. I was finding some of the readings to be a bit wish washy. I don't want to have to interpret which readings are more accurate than others. This unit is supposed to expedite the tuning process, this has yet to be proven to me.

I was running out of time and I still wanted to experiment with a few other things. I thought that it would be a cool idea to actually learn what frequencies my bass drums were tuned. I used the Tune Bot on the resonant heads of the drums. My 20" Ludwig bass drum registered at 61.5 cycles, OK for a 20" drum. My Gretsch Renown 22" drum had a reading of 51.5 cycles. My Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute 22" bass drum registered at 49.7 cycles, but what was jaw dropping was my Tama Starclassic Bubinga 22" drum, it registered a low 41.6 cycles. You can feel this drum in your chest, lol. My DW drums weren't in the house, so I couldn't check its bass drum. I still don't know the accuracy of these readings, but it was a fun experiment to do.

After again re-touching the tuning on my 12" tom, by ear, I made a log of what the Tune Bot "hears" as the frequency of each drum of the Ludwig Classic Maple kit. The 12 x 8 was 107.9 cycles, the 13 x 9 was 99, the 14 x 14 was 81.9, the 16 x 16 was 72, snare was 190.2 and the bass drum, 61.5 cycles. These were all dead center hits. Again, there was quite a bit of a discrepancy on these reading depending on how hard the head was hit. The harder the hit, the higher the frequency readout on the Tune Bot.

There are some things I like about this unit, but many things I believe could be more refined.
The only way I could get a check on its accuracy is to open the unit and inject a low frequency pulse signal into its audio input stage, I'm not going to do this for obvious reasons, at least not yet. I truly believe the Tune Bot has Too much sensitivity. It shouldn't be so sensitive that a drum hit from over three feet away will find its way into its gate, especially with the device mounted on the drum hoop less than an inch away fro the head. I believe a unit with a variable sensitivity range would make for much more accurate and stable readouts. The Tune Bot definitely has a low pass filter inline, especially with the "filter" switch activated. It seems as if nothing higher in frequency than about 300 to 350 cycles gets through to it. This is good because you really don't need the entire audio spectrum affecting the readings your getting from a "lo fi' frequency sound source of audio such as drums.

This is all I have for now. The next time I have some time on my hands, I'll delve a little farther. I really wish that I had another Tune Bot to check side by side with the one I have. Maybe some of these findings are just inherent with this particular unit. My opinion so far is, that if you have the ability to tune your drums by ear, this unit will not make things better for you in that account. If you can tune by ear and you purchase one of these units, it will probably make you wish that you never heard of Tune Bot because of the shear frustration and time consuming nature of its usage. At least this is the way it affected me. I did find it amusing to be able to "see" the frequency ranges of some of my drums, accurate or not. For people that do not have the ability to tune by ear, it might be just the thing to get you happy with your drums again. I soon have to re-head another set of drums, I'll see if my girlfriend has the time to do it with the assistance of the Tune Bot.

These are just my personal findings and descriptions. 03/07/12
Dennis
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  #37  
Old 03-08-2012, 07:53 AM
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Nodiggie Nodiggie is offline
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Awesome review Dennis,

I am anxious to hear what results your girl comes up with. Assuming she has little to no knowledge of tuning, that is a great test to do.
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  #38  
Old 03-08-2012, 08:08 AM
audiotech
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

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Originally Posted by Nodiggie View Post
Awesome review Dennis,

I am anxious to hear what results your girl comes up with. Assuming she has little to no knowledge of tuning, that is a great test to do.
Thanks, but the problem is, she can tune quite well. The second problem is that she has less patients than I do, so I might just find the Tune Bot boiling in a large pot of water when I get home, just kidding. This reminds me of some movie.

Dennis
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  #39  
Old 03-08-2012, 08:23 AM
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keep it simple keep it simple is offline
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotech View Post

These are just my personal findings and descriptions. 03/07/12
Dennis
Nice report back Dennis, & one with the credibility of your ear attached. Can you kindly clear something up for me, does this product have a defined listening point (i.e. a hole in the front of it)? In other words, can you point it at the source you want it to major on? If not, I'm thinking it might be picking up much of it's source from the hoop it's attached to, & that could certainly account for the unit picking up 3rds or other sympathetic tones.

Overall, it seems this unit's too much like hard work, & certainly even more difficult to use in a noisy stage environment, & that's a shame, because it's the one area I could envisage me benefitting from using the product. I eagerly await further feedback :)
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  #40  
Old 03-08-2012, 08:56 AM
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Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
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Default Re: Attention Tune-Bot Owners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Overall, it seems this unit's too much like hard work
From one idiot who still uses a couple of drum keys, a couple of ears and a couple of minutes of his time....I'm certainly thinking the same way.

Have followed this and the other Tune-Bot threads with great interest. It's a shame. I want to believe there really is a quicker and easier way to tune......that technology is going to show us up for the feeble creatures we are. But as yet none of these gadgets have me convinced they're gonna do a better job than what I can. All that time spent friggen' around, is better spent getting the job done it would appear.
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