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  #1  
Old 03-01-2012, 07:02 PM
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Default Why is it so hard...

to find good, decent, bandmates? It's easier to find a wife or significant other than it is to find a comfortable, compatable band. A few years ago in this area there was a band called the Zen Motor Orchestra that we gigged with on occasion. Then they split because of issues several had with others in the band. Yet these guys went out to concerts together, played frisbee football together, but couldn't play music together? Come on!

The band I just left - all got together and ate during rehearsals and chowed down. Someone would bring BBQ or pizza,or someone grilled chicken breasts or whatever, the wives all got along great and talked while the guys were rehearsing, etc. But we can't play music together now because what started off as several ppl just "getting together for fun" turned into a business all of a sudden and the material even had to be nailed perfectly - even in rehearsals. When there was a probelm musically it wasn't discussed, no guidance was given, etc.

That's something I'll never understand.

A coupla guys I know who are much more experienced than I and have played music a lot longer and been in many more bands have told me they've lost count at the number of times they've been fired or "replaced" because someone's ego, fickleness, wanting to change directions, bad management, personality, etc. One gal even told me she was fired from a successful band because she knew more music theory than the band leader did and he felt "threatened".

Sorry to bring this up again in another thread, but man this stuff is getting old. Almost like being back in junior high and all the idiodic cliques and stuff....
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Old 03-01-2012, 07:36 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

That's why they say some of the best musicians are sitting at home. Maybe they just gave up.
The ego stuff, not communicating, not working used to drive me nuts. I've never been the best drummer around, and cetainly not the worst, but I cared, I got along, I was positive and ready to learn. I saw that in very few band mates.

Way back, I constantly said, we need to be recording these practices. I guess it was just too much to ask. Besides, I was just the drummer.

If I gig again it will be with an established band or I'll run an ad saying this is what I'd like and this is what I won't accept.
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Old 03-01-2012, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

Thank you, Resohead. I can agree 100%.

Last weekend I got invited to sit in and jam on a recording session at a friend's house. Really good musicians were there and I was honored to even be asked. (I'm certainly not the best drummer by any stretch but not the absolute worst either, lol.) I found out later that my friend who hosted left his successful band that played the corporate gigs because of two new singers the band hired that were so forceful and egocentric that he got tired of it. He was one of the founding members of the band is the sad part.
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

Rouge, after reading about all your difficulties finding a decent band, why don't you start a band and have guys audition for you?
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

I'm in a decent working band with great band-mates. My band-leader who happens to play guitar too, (what a presumable nightmare), is great! At the same time, since my girlfriend and I broke up, I haven't had much luck with a significant other.
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

You only marry one person, who in optimal circumstances is the ultimate in compatibility for a specific person. Two would be certainly pushing it. Three is unthinkable. I don't know how five- or six-person bands do it.
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:31 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

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Originally Posted by alparrott View Post
I don't know how five- or six-person bands do it.
..........medication !
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  #8  
Old 03-01-2012, 10:47 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

If I knew the answer, I would be in a really awesome band right now.

I have been in numerous bands, but it's difficult to keep them together. Something always seems to get in the way.
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:11 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
If I knew the answer, I would be in a really awesome band right now.

I have been in numerous bands, but it's difficult to keep them together. Something always seems to get in the way.
Families and 'real' jobs. We all need to start living in vans and mooching off chicks (or dude's).
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  #10  
Old 03-01-2012, 11:16 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

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Families and 'real' jobs. We all need to start living in vans and mooching off chicks (or dude's).
Family, women, alcohol, ego, frustration, other opportunities. They all tend to suck away bands members.

Ever see the movie Black Swan? And how the main character is so driven to succeed, she literally drives herself crazy? Yeah, I've seen that happen too.
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

I'm in several bands (6 to be exact). Luckily, there aren't any major issues in any of them. I live in Portland, which is a pretty laid-back town, so that might have something to do with the lack of drama...
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Old 03-02-2012, 02:10 AM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

caddy do you know Rienhard Melz? I rally like his drumming. I think he's from Portland.
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  #13  
Old 03-02-2012, 02:28 AM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

I also find this tough. Me and a few friends started up a band but we can't find a guitarist or vocalist... It's pretty hard, hopefully one day...

We work well together, but we just struggle to find people who are interested to work and create music we like or come up with. We combine lots of our favourite styles and bands into our music, like latin, jazz and prog and it kinda works. But again, we need to work a little more and hopefully get a singer and other guitarist, soon!
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  #14  
Old 03-02-2012, 02:55 AM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

Quote:
Originally Posted by resohead View Post
caddy do you know Rienhard Melz? I rally like his drumming. I think he's from Portland.
Yes. He lives 10 minutes away from me. I bow down to his drumming skills. :)
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Old 03-02-2012, 04:06 AM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

around here, there is kind of a (revolving door) of muscicians, that go by 4-5 different names, and there's at least 3 people for each instrument. so people come and go, due to drama, but the core of the "thing" is always playing somewhere....kind of hard to explain, but it works.
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  #16  
Old 03-02-2012, 05:36 AM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

Quote:
Yes. He lives 10 minutes away from me. I bow down to his drumming skills. :)
I wanted to hear some old Gino Vannelli on youtube and that's when I found him. I love his chops..drumming. I also saw a jazz trio he was recording with. I don't remember their name but the song is called Boomerangst and is awesome.

I contacted him on fb I think..maybe his website. I hope I wasn't too complimentary and came off looking like a lunatic but he was a nice guy. He has a brother here in Austin that is a very good percussionist.
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  #17  
Old 03-02-2012, 05:47 AM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

Quote:
Originally Posted by caddywumpus View Post
I'm in several bands (6 to be exact). Luckily, there aren't any major issues in any of them. I live in Portland, which is a pretty laid-back town, so that might have something to do with the lack of drama...
Well, you have good beer, great coffee and wild doughnuts, so yeah, nothing to stress over. LOL
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  #18  
Old 03-02-2012, 12:21 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

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Originally Posted by rogue_drummer View Post
we can't play music together now because what started off as several ppl just "getting together for fun" turned into a business all of a sudden and the material even had to be nailed perfectly - even in rehearsals. When there was a probelm musically it wasn't discussed, no guidance was given, etc.
This is usually the crux of the matter: people who don't know what they want are rarely going to be satisfied. I have lost count of the number of bands I've been in where what started as a really fun energetic rock band soon became humourless shoegazing indie wank or where the thing they liked so much about my playing in the first place was the thing that got me canned 18 months later: there was one guy who was very keen to have a really loose Tom Waits/Jug band/earthy blues feel when I auditioned for the band and I was more than happy to play with that kind of feel; by the time we parted company we had been playing and recording the same half dozen tunes over and over for about 6 months with an obsessive attention to detail in an attempt to get them absolutely perfect, though they never really changed much from the first time we played them.

I have found the best way to minimise problems is to learn as much as possible about drums, sheet music, guitars, pianos, amps, microphones, mixing desks, studios, producers, promoters . . . whatever. If you have a good idea about what you want and what you like and can comfortably express that then that's a good place to start. It isn't always easy to spot a wrong'un in a band situation right from the word go as people tend to be on their best behaviour when meeting band mates for the first time; but deep down we have all probably known the point where things turned bad or boring yet for some reason allowed it to struggle on unchecked for months before inevitably falling apart.

If this realisation comes before it's too late then I say for your own sake talk about it quickly. If the others are grown up enough then may be it can be worked out. If not, then jump back on the horse ASAP and start again - unless there's money involved . . . but it sounds like you're not talking about that kind of band. I know in some parts of the world it's hard to find anyone to play with and beggars can't be choosers etc but music really should be fun. If I'm not having fun and I'm not getting paid then there's no point at all.

I feel for you and I have often been tempted to stick with a crappy band for fear of being alone in the wilderness - but every second spent trapped in band like that is time that could be spent with someone out there who is right for you: go get 'em.

Good luck and HAVE FUN.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:35 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Tempered Clavier View Post
This is usually the crux of the matter: people who don't know what they want are rarely going to be satisfied. I have lost count of the number of bands I've been in where what started as a really fun energetic rock band soon became humourless shoegazing indie wank.
Brilliant. Just brilliant. I've never heard this process so well described.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:21 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

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Originally Posted by Bad Tempered Clavier View Post
This is usually the crux of the matter:
.
Yes, great post!

I'm lucky enough to be in a band that really gets on well personally & musically. That said, it's been through a couple of changes to get to this place. I realise just how precious a good band is, especially one that can balance all the individuals requirements, whilst still being musically gratifying.
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Old 03-02-2012, 04:13 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
Brilliant. Just brilliant. I've never heard this process so well described.
+1! I'm borrowing "humorless shoegazing indie wank" for the week, ok? :)

The only thing that keeps bands together is to have similar goals, and there are times when the financial aspect can be a great source of motivation. When musicians have day jobs, and aren't in it for the money, then they are playing in the band for some creative or social reason. If one player is there for the "the hang", and another is there to be creative, and another is there to get laid, and another is just getting experience, then it's only going to last for so long. There's just no way to satisfy all of the those desires within one band.

Leadership is really important, too. Having someone who can communicate clearly a financial and artistic vision for the group will eventually solidify the line-up.

I've also noticed that, in general, musicians are unusually sincere and single-minded about the music they love and/or will play. Embracing other genres of music is something that mostly only drummers preach to each other.
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Old 03-02-2012, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

The question to me isn't why its so hard, but damn how did I ever find people to form a great band.

You need a group of people that all getting along on a personal level, then you need the same people to get along on a musical level (maturity is almost always required here). Then you can start to play music, but for it to be good you need to also balance ego, to much rips a band apart, and too little leaves you boring.

Then of course there is everything else in the world stopping you. I had an incredible band awhile back that could have gone somewhere but the other guys graduated and left town :(

Also it is always easier to find people to play covers than originals, you remove the problem of also needing a great songwriter and the disagreements on arranging, plus the musos who do covers are more mature than the pure original crowd.
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Old 03-02-2012, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard...

Quote:
Originally Posted by alparrott View Post
You only marry one person, who in optimal circumstances is the ultimate in compatibility for a specific person. Two would be certainly pushing it. Three is unthinkable. I don't know how five- or six-person bands do it.
Talk about turnover! That's why I'm in a trio now and we love it.
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:33 PM
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Default Why is it so hard....

humourless shoegazing indie wank

Brilliant! I too am going to "borrow" this phrase and incorporate into my everyday lingo. Ha!

This whole band thing I was in for almost 2 months is an observation in the social mores nowadays. The guitarist is a bear of a guy, with long hair and a beard, coupla tattoos, nice guy, good player, good arranger. His day job is in IT. The singer is short, perky, and she's a hairstylist / manicurist. Nice lady, great voice. The bass guy too is a big ol' New Jersey guy, retired, kinda a biker looking guy without the harley, earring, tattoos, nice guy... And me, average size, clean cut (the "corporate" look), no tattoos, etc. All these people smoke, their wives smoke, etc. All of us drink. I just prefer not to drink whilst playing or rehearsing. After rehearsal or gig, that's different entirely....

So a typical rehearsal we set up, someone always either cooked or bbq'd chicken or fajitas, and we rehearsed for an hour or so while the wives prepared the food. We then took a break and all ate together,. After eating the 4 of us rehearsed again.

Then rehearsal was done and we all helped each other pack up and said goodbyes, "have a great week", etc.

So my wife and I thought we had found some real pals to fit in with and jam with. If it came to gigging, they told me they only wanted to gig 1 or 2 times a month tops and only if it was "fun and loose". They even wanted to get my wife on shakers, a tamborine, or congas, etc. "Just want to jam and have fun".

Then the guitarist makes a huge deal out of me using a music stand (previous post). Then on two covers I didn't nail the groove right away in two rehearsals but came up with an alternative groove that everyone agreed sounded just as good and "fit". I'd never heard of the songs before then. Then the leader found out I also play for my church p and w band. I gotta say here I never even mentioned that until he and the singer were playing a duo gig and I couldn't make it to see them (we'd alreay seen them perform as a duo once) because of a previous church gig committment on the Friday night they played.

So Friday the duo played, Sunday we rehearsed (I did forget my bass drum pedal) and tighted things up, the leader introduced a new cover - on the fly - that I did nail, and then everyone agrees the rehearsal went great and we are sounding great. Monday comes and I get an email from the leader saying "Thanks for all the hard work, but we're going with another drummer'"

No warning, no nothing. Although I gotta say here, the last rehearsal I sensed something wasn't quite right with the way they were acting around me, but chalked it up to it being Sunday and everyone was maybe tired? They even treated my wife a bit differently....

Anyway, I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out exactly why I was replaced....

As they say, off the next adventure now!!!
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