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  #1  
Old 02-13-2012, 12:11 PM
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Davo-London Davo-London is offline
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Default Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

Ok so I wan't to buy my church some cymbals. The current Sabian Pros? sound awful and I'm sure they were a budget set. They are really thick and I do what I can to avoid playing the crash, because it offends my sensibilities. I'm NOT bashing Sabian these are just very cheap cymbals.

Anyway, I need a ride/crash/hat set that sounds good enough and is robust enough to take some kids playing the drums as well as seasoned gents like myself. So something right in the middle quality would be good. Finally they need to be as quiet as possible. I know you'll think me mad, but I'm always being told you're too loud!

Suggestions?

Davo
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:51 PM
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

I'm in the same situation right now. They've been using Planet Z's which are simply horrendous. I rummaged through the Church attic and found an old Sabian B8 ride and hats which the kids abandoned because they look like they've been through a war. But they actually sound interesting in a good way, and I wouldn't mind playing them myself. So I told the kids to use them. All they need now is a decent crash. I plan to check out all the branches of the local Stagg distributors to find a decent (and cheap) SH thin crash 16". I found a nice sounding one while window shopping a year ago. I'm hoping I can find another one. Patience, patience ...
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:07 PM
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

They might not be in your price range, but I don't know of any other cymbals that fit the environment more than Sabians HHX Evolutions. You get out of them exactly what you put into them, opening up very easily. I love the sound of mine. The 14" Evolution hi hats are just buttery. If you can, give them a listen.

Dennis
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Old 02-13-2012, 03:12 PM
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Drummertist Drummertist is offline
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

Cymbals are made to make noise. Why not try using DYNAMICS. instead of crashing the cymbal as hard as you can, try just tapping it with the tip of the stick. Shouldn't drummers be responsible for the loudness or softness of their drums? Are you hitting rimshots? Are you raising your sticks 2 feet off the drums before striking?

Would this be too loud for them? VIDEO LINK. If so, then maybe they just don't want drums in their church. Just play quieter.

EDIT: dude I went off on a tangent. I just have thing about people saying drums are too loud in church. As for the cymbals, you may want something in the medium thin range so it can open up easier without being too sensitive. I would say thin, but you said kids would bash (I.e. run up after service to "practice") them after church. Amiright?
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:16 PM
sticks4drums
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

These cymbals are so badly over looked on all these forums. Not sure why. Get some Sabian AAX-XPlosion Fast crashes. I proved this to my buddy a couple of weeks ago. I have a full set of Evolutions on one kit, and Fast Crashes on another. They sound almost identical. If I blind folded you, you would probably not be able to tell me the difference. They open up beautifully just like Evolutions, but are HALF THE PRICE. I repeat! HALF THE PRICE!!!!! They also have a brilliant finish so they look great, just like the Evolutions. These are not to be confused with Sabian's AAX-XPlosions. These are X-Plosion Fast Crashes. A beautiful smooth, not overly loud cymbal. They would be perfect for a church environment.

Please people, give them a listen. You are missing out on a great cymbal, at a great price. I know something about great things at great prices!!! :)
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  #6  
Old 02-13-2012, 07:44 PM
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Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

Yet another thread where I say, "You have to buy pro-level cymbals". I have one set of cymbals: a 20" K Custom Dark ride, two Zildjian A thin crashes, and New Beat hi-hats. I use them for everything and can play them soft and loud, and they will go there. But the bigger reason I like them, is that they sound musical. Their volume is determined by the person's technique playing them. If he can't play them softly, then he can't play. Simple as that.

I think it's great that the manufacturer's make all of these intermediate lines, or offer more cymbals than you can shake a stick at. But sometimes I wish people would just see through all the BS and just get what they're eventually going to end up with: pro cymbals.

Spend the money. Buy once and cry once. How many times have we said things like that here? Nobody listens. What's up with that?
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:02 PM
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
I think it's great that the manufacturer's make all of these intermediate lines, or offer more cymbals than you can shake a stick at. But sometimes I wish people would just see through all the BS and just get what they're eventually going to end up with: pro cymbals.

Spend the money. Buy once and cry once. How many times have we said things like that here? Nobody listens. What's up with that?
Totally agree.

as to why nobody listens? marketing - brainwashes them that "more is more" right. If you're a new starting drummer not reading and listening to these posts, you can get a cymbal pack with all nice new shiny cymbals and lots of them to "start". So away you go, and a year later, you get an ear for your sound, and voila, you have to unload a poor investment. Given the used market there is absolutely no need to buy a 'cymbal pack' when you can get used pro level cymbals for the same price. But nobody at a music store is going to tell a kid who walked in the door that information.
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  #8  
Old 02-13-2012, 11:07 PM
MrLeadFoot MrLeadFoot is offline
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

I play at several churches, as well as in a commercial band. I have all vintage A Zildjians (except for my Sabian Hand-Hammered 18" China) which I use in all churches and venues. Thin, "fast" crashes are the way to go. In fact, my 13" thin crash is my favorite. I have a 16", as well, but don't like it nearly as much as my 13", because my 13" is so sharp, clean and crisp all the way through from strike through resonance, which is not very long due to the fast decay. If I wanted a louder more obnoxious sound, which I don't, I can always just turn up the mics. ;-)

I'm actually considering swapping out my 16" for a 14", but I'm a bit scared I might end up sorry I did the trade, so I am instead currently looking at some used 12" and 14" crashes. Not that the 16" sounds bad, it actually sound good, but over the 30 years I've been playing, I've come to realize that the cleaner a drummer sounds, the better, and the faster the crash, the cleaner things sound (crappy lines notwithstanding).

Zildjians are not the only brand that provide good quality "fast" lines, and you'd be surprised how affordable 12"-16" thin, fast crashes are, even in the higher-end models. And, everyone at your church, including you, will undoubtedly like the sounds of those types of cymbals. I kid you not, I ALWAYS get compliments on the sound of my cymbals at churches. I'm not surprised, because in my experience churches all have big, heavy cymbals that sound like crap and resonate WAAAAAAY too long. And, there's nothing more obnoxious than a heavy cymbal that resonates a crappy sound! So when the congregation hears my cymbals for a change, they are happy, and I'm a hero! ;-)

You might want to stay above 12" because that size and lower are considered splashes, and may not hold up well to the younger guys beating the crap out of cymbals. I had a small 8" that cracked way too easily, and I'm a pretty controlled player. True, while larger sizes are a bit more durable, it's not worth taking the chance, and splashes are often considered to be more of "effects" cymbals anyway.
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Last edited by MrLeadFoot; 02-13-2012 at 11:23 PM.
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  #9  
Old 02-13-2012, 11:24 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

The quietest cymbals I've ever played are by Bosphorus, which of course aren't particularly cheap. An 18" Master series crash and a 20" med-thin Turk ride (regular or Master series) will do- not only is their real volume soft, their sound is glassy, non-intrusive. You can save on the hihats, though: just get the cheapest budget cymbals you can find.

There are some good Sabians, too- the Raw (not Raw Bell) ride is excellent, and not too expensive, and the El Sabor crash. Maybe you can find some used Sabian Sound Control cymbals as well- though I don't think they're any quieter than the others I've mentioned.
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  #10  
Old 02-13-2012, 11:32 PM
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
The quietest cymbals I've ever played are by Bosphorus, which of course aren't particularly cheap. An 18" Master series crash and a 20" med-thin Turk ride (regular or Master series) will do- not only is their real volume soft, their sound is glassy, non-intrusive.
Bosphorus Masters or Master Vintage are awesome for this application.
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  #11  
Old 02-13-2012, 11:35 PM
MrLeadFoot MrLeadFoot is offline
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
These cymbals are so badly over looked on all these forums. Not sure why. Get some Sabian AAX-XPlosion Fast crashes. I proved this to my buddy a couple of weeks ago. I have a full set of Evolutions on one kit, and Fast Crashes on another. They sound almost identical. If I blind folded you, you would probably not be able to tell me the difference. They open up beautifully just like Evolutions, but are HALF THE PRICE. I repeat! HALF THE PRICE!!!!! They also have a brilliant finish so they look great, just like the Evolutions. These are not to be confused with Sabian's AAX-XPlosions. These are X-Plosion Fast Crashes. A beautiful smooth, not overly loud cymbal. They would be perfect for a church environment.

Please people, give them a listen. You are missing out on a great cymbal, at a great price. I know something about great things at great prices!!! :)
I'll look. :-)

What's the hierarchy in the Sabian lines? I can't tell which are "best" and which "suck", for lack of a better term. :-)
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  #12  
Old 02-13-2012, 11:46 PM
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

Well the XS20 is their mid line and everything above that is pro level. HH, AA, AAX, HHX, Paragon, Artisan, are all professional cymbals.
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Old 02-13-2012, 11:56 PM
tamadrm tamadrm is offline
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
The quietest cymbals I've ever played are by Bosphorus, which of course aren't particularly cheap. An 18" Master series crash and a 20" med-thin Turk ride (regular or Master series) will do- not only is their real volume soft, their sound is glassy, non-intrusive. You can save on the hihats, though: just get the cheapest budget cymbals you can find.

There are some good Sabians, too- the Raw (not Raw Bell) ride is excellent, and not too expensive, and the El Sabor crash. Maybe you can find some used Sabian Sound Control cymbals as well- though I don't think they're any quieter than the others I've mentioned.
I have 2 Sabian sound control crashes,16 and 18.I wanted to see how quiet they actually were,so I played them side by side, with my band,with a Sabian 16 and 18 thin AA crashes.I also recorded the tunes.They were much quieter,but also more "glassy".

I would recommend them,but you would have to buy used,since I believe they are discontinued.Most thin turkish type crashes should work well also.The only other thing I would suggest would be tape.I hate the very idea of using it,but it will bring the volume down.

Steve B
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:13 AM
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

I know this isn't what you're looking for, but for low volume playing, the cymbals I have that open up fastest and sound fullest at low volumes are Lion Chinas. I used to think my 16" A. thin crash held that honor in my kit. But now with brushes and thin rods, its the Lions. I guess its because the rims are very thin. But because of this, I'd never let the kids in Church use them.
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Old 02-14-2012, 01:47 AM
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

Thanks for the many suggestions. I was told for the first time last week i was too quiet. Ha ha. I was playing brushes and mini-monsters. Anyways the cheap thick cymbals sound awful at low/med volumes; hence my question. I didn't expect to be told to play quieter! Trust me i play very sensitively. I daresay the view, which i agree with, is to buy once and buy quality. I just thought their might be intermediate cymbals, which are thinner but not too thin that have a nice tone.

Davo
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Old 02-14-2012, 01:59 AM
sticks4drums
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davo-London View Post
Thanks for the many suggestions. I was told for the first time last week i was too quiet. Ha ha. I was playing brushes and mini-monsters. Anyways the cheap thick cymbals sound awful at low/med volumes; hence my question. I didn't expect to be told to play quieter! Trust me i play very sensitively. I daresay the view, which i agree with, is to buy once and buy quality. I just thought their might be intermediate cymbals, which are thinner but not too thin that have a nice tone.

Davo
You better check out the ones I talked about. They are perfect!
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Old 02-14-2012, 04:33 AM
jkevn jkevn is offline
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davo-London View Post
Thanks for the many suggestions. I was told for the first time last week i was too quiet. Ha ha. I was playing brushes and mini-monsters. Anyways the cheap thick cymbals sound awful at low/med volumes; hence my question. I didn't expect to be told to play quieter! Trust me i play very sensitively. I daresay the view, which i agree with, is to buy once and buy quality. I just thought their might be intermediate cymbals, which are thinner but not too thin that have a nice tone.

Davo
There are always the Wuhan NT thin crashes. They can be had cheaper than top line stuff, are quite musical and open up at the tap of a finger. Of course, people on drum forums will speak ill of you.....lol
It is well worth fifty bucks to try.
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:04 AM
MrLeadFoot MrLeadFoot is offline
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

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Originally Posted by jkevn View Post
There are always the Wuhan NT thin crashes. They can be had cheaper than top line stuff, are quite musical and open up at the tap of a finger. Of course, people on drum forums will speak ill of you.....lol
It is well worth fifty bucks to try.
You can get nice A. Zildjian crashes on the used market for almost that cheap.
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:06 AM
MrLeadFoot MrLeadFoot is offline
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davo-London View Post
Thanks for the many suggestions. I was told for the first time last week i was too quiet. Ha ha. I was playing brushes and mini-monsters. Anyways the cheap thick cymbals sound awful at low/med volumes; hence my question. I didn't expect to be told to play quieter! Trust me i play very sensitively. I daresay the view, which i agree with, is to buy once and buy quality. I just thought their might be intermediate cymbals, which are thinner but not too thin that have a nice tone.

Davo
And, this is why I said nothing sounds worse than the resonance of a crappy cymbal. Many times people THINK they're too loud, when the truth of the matter is they SEEM like they're "too loud" by virtue of them sounding like crap, no matter what the volume, or how controlled your playing is. Try tuning into your LEAST favorite music on the radio. Even at a low volume, you want to turn it down, or off, yet on the other hand having a conversation with someone when your favorite music playing is no bother to you, even when it is turned up! ;-)
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Old 02-14-2012, 07:54 AM
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
You better check out the ones I talked about. They are perfect!
Cool but I need hats and ride too!

Davo
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  #21  
Old 02-15-2012, 05:42 PM
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Davo-London Davo-London is offline
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

Oh Oh

I tried the Istanbul Agop Xist cymbals and they sound rather tasty.

Maybe maybe ...

Davo
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Old 02-16-2012, 08:28 PM
MJ14 MJ14 is offline
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davo-London View Post
Thanks for the many suggestions. I was told for the first time last week i was too quiet. Ha ha. I was playing brushes and mini-monsters. Anyways the cheap thick cymbals sound awful at low/med volumes; hence my question. I didn't expect to be told to play quieter! Trust me i play very sensitively. I daresay the view, which i agree with, is to buy once and buy quality. I just thought their might be intermediate cymbals, which are thinner but not too thin that have a nice tone.

Davo
I play Zildjian A Avedis Cymbals at my church and I'm sure you can get some nice used ones cheap.
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:28 AM
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Davo-London Davo-London is offline
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

Thanks for the comments and suggestions.

I ended up with these ... Sorry Sticks I could find the Sabians.

Peace
Davo
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  #24  
Old 02-17-2012, 01:31 AM
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Default Re: Medium range quiet cymbals for church?

So you did.

Can't wait to try them though!

Davo
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