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  #41  
Old 02-17-2012, 02:52 AM
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Default Re: How heavy is your hardware? I've had enough!

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Yes I've reached that conclusion too. I swear I could make a mint by re-thinking and building my own hardware. Like why don't they use aluminum? And what does double bracing really do? It joins at a common point anyway? Are the side forces that great? I recently went to DW single braced stuff. Not much weight savings TBH, a little. Not enough. Make them from aluminum for Pete's sake. Aluminum can be polished to look like chrome. Make them in available in different colors! It's stiffness not weight that counts. The weight to stability ratio should be a primary design consideration. You could incorporate velcro feet. Even wind would have a tough time with a velcro type foot. And of course, the whole reson for the cymbal stands existence, tiny, mini ball type, friction held, universal tilters. Gears? Seriously? Duh. I could design one hell of a cymbal stand. Or, a cymbal stand system. Something like a rack system for drum kits except it lays on the floor and lightweight boom stands click into it, wherever you want of course. You hang stuff from clamps off the boom stands, cymbals, toms, whatever you can get. Eliminates all the legs. I really don't like the look of hardly being able to see the drummer through all the conventional racks you see today. It would look more traditional.

*Wakes up from dream*
There are good reasons for making hardware heavy. Drums and cymbals are heavy. If the hardware were light, the hardware would be more likely to fall over. The solution is the rack, which distributes weight and movement stress over a large area.
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  #42  
Old 02-17-2012, 04:21 AM
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Default Re: How heavy is your hardware? I've had enough!

I recommend some DW 3000 series hardware or even 5000 series depending on how hard you hit. I have a big 22" HH rock ride on a 3000 series and its very stable.
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  #43  
Old 02-17-2012, 05:02 AM
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Default Re: How heavy is your hardware? I've had enough!

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Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
There are good reasons for making hardware heavy. Drums and cymbals are heavy. If the hardware were light, the hardware would be more likely to fall over. The solution is the rack, which distributes weight and movement stress over a large area.
I can tell you as a structural engineer, this is not the least bit true. Generally speaking, structural engineers design structures to be as light as possible while still being safe for earthquake, wind, etc. There are exceptions to this. In a tall thin building, concrete is often used because the additional weight works favorably, but this is the exception. The rule is make it light! Steel is priced by the pound so if you don;t keep it light, you won't last long in engineering.

The reason drum hardware is heavier than it should be is that it is constructed of weak, cheap pot metal. Metallurgically, it's chromed junk. Aluminum is a great option because there are grades like 6061T6 that have strength comparable to steel. It is used in aircraft and mountain bikes. Think about it. Military cargo planes need to haul tanks. Do you think the airplanes are designed to be heavy because they carry heavy loads?

Racks are often lighter because they have larger outside diameters and thinner wall thicknesses. They too, could be made lighter with better metal.
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  #44  
Old 02-17-2012, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: How heavy is your hardware? I've had enough!

Well, my Gibraltar boom stands arrived today & I'm really pleased that they're half the weight of the Yamaha's.

Some very interesting comments from fellow players here, for which I thank you! I try to hang multiple things off stands & will attach a picture of my Sonor that illustrates that. For the reasons I have already given, I don't think racks are that great for regular drummers. I have similar concerns about the flat-base stands since they don't overlap each other easily.

The sonic issues have got my interest - I will test cymbals on my old Yamaha heavy stands & compare with the Gibraltar stands & let you know the results. I do notice however that Peter Erskine uses lightweight flat-base DW stands & for a guy that invented a stick bag that stood up so his floor tom tone wasn't affected by hanging it, I cannot think that he would do so if the sound were affected adversely.
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  #45  
Old 02-17-2012, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: How heavy is your hardware? I've had enough!

Could have saved about 15 to 20% going with Dixon instead of Gibraltar on the exact same pieces as they are made in the same plant with the same manufacturing #'s on them. Worldmax, Cannon and a few others also buy from the same plant in Taiwan, have even seen some Ludwig hardware with the same stamp #'s also.
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  #46  
Old 02-19-2012, 03:55 AM
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Default Re: How heavy is your hardware? I've had enough!

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Originally Posted by B-squared View Post
I can tell you as a structural engineer, this is not the least bit true. Generally speaking, structural engineers design structures to be as light as possible while still being safe for earthquake, wind, etc. There are exceptions to this. In a tall thin building, concrete is often used because the additional weight works favorably, but this is the exception. The rule is make it light! Steel is priced by the pound so if you don;t keep it light, you won't last long in engineering.

The reason drum hardware is heavier than it should be is that it is constructed of weak, cheap pot metal. Metallurgically, it's chromed junk. Aluminum is a great option because there are grades like 6061T6 that have strength comparable to steel. It is used in aircraft and mountain bikes. Think about it. Military cargo planes need to haul tanks. Do you think the airplanes are designed to be heavy because they carry heavy loads?

Racks are often lighter because they have larger outside diameters and thinner wall thicknesses. They too, could be made lighter with better metal.
Yes, I know stands are made of cheap pot metal. But I still think that's to keep the hardware from swaying and potentially swaying over.

Your analogy doesn't hold because designers are careful to design a tall thin building to as light as possible, as you very correctly note. Additional weight, particularly at the top, would cause more swaying. But with a drum stand, the whole point is to add heavy objects like drums and cymbals and booms as high up as you can, so they are consequently top heavy. Also, even the tallest and lightest buildings still have heavy concrete foundations to anchor them, even as they might sway in the wind or an earthquake. I drum stand usually isn't permanently affixed to the floor and must be collapsible and moveable. A wide tripod spread helps make up for this.

I do think, though, that stands could be made out of hybrid materials. Aluminum top tubes, boom arms and tilters would reduce weight at the top, while keeping weight at the bottom with traditional pot metal tripods would improve stability.
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  #47  
Old 02-19-2012, 05:40 AM
Ekim Ekim is offline
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Default Re: How heavy is your hardware? I've had enough!

Eh. Lifting heavy stuff is good for your body, provided you do it properly.

I have no interest in buying lighter hardware. I'd rather work a little harder and have a little more re-assurance that nothing is going to topple.
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  #48  
Old 02-19-2012, 04:00 PM
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Default Re: How heavy is your hardware? I've had enough!

I'd like to see more manufacturers offer single braced stands with toothless tilters and higher quality joints. I haven't bought any new hardware in a long time, so I'm admittedly not up to speed with all the new offerings. All I know is every drum shop I walk into has a glut of heavy duty, double braced stands, and any single braced stuff they have is of the cheapo, geared tilter variety. I have a couple of old Pearl single braced stands with toothless tilters that are great; lightweight yet sturdy, not sure if Pearl still offers these. I can see that some drummers need heavy duty cymbal and tom stands, but I have NEVER understood the need for double braced snare and hi-hat stands.
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  #49  
Old 02-19-2012, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: How heavy is your hardware? I've had enough!

I directly compared the sound of cymbals on my new Gibraltar lightweight stands to that of the old heavy duty Yamaha's. I couldn't actually hear any real change... the major factor was my standing position, so I was careful to try & keep all of that constant. I compared a Flat Ride, a Dry Ride & a Crash on there. I'm not saying that no change exists, but I didn't detect any.
I see Gibraltar have launched a series that uses chrome plated aluminium tripod bases.

Not certain about the quality of Dixon vs Gibraltar... got these stands because I have used already.
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  #50  
Old 02-19-2012, 09:46 PM
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Default Re: How heavy is your hardware? I've had enough!

I have lightened my hardware considerably over the years.
I use light weight single braced hat, snare, and cymbal stands whenever possible.
I also use combination tom/cymbal stands and I use clamp cymbal holders.
I use light bass pedals without plates.

My 6 piece Rock kit is the heaviest when it comes to hardware.
I use two double tom stands for both the floor and high toms with cymbal holders for that kit.
The single braced hat and snare stand help to lighten it a bit.

My 4 and 5 piece kits are pretty light in the hardware dept.
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