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  #1  
Old 01-24-2012, 09:45 PM
chris_ chris_ is offline
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Default New Compact Drum Tuner

HI,
TuneBot , this is a new compact drum tuner, which get the tone\pitch at each lugs and at the middle of the head, also it can gets hertz or difference value between each lugs to match them equal, basically it get what you heard from your ears, similar to a guitar tuner but now for drums, unlike what we got before like tama tension watch\drum dial which was never the notes\tone but only the head surface tension.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiFO-...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt1EKjrMZzM
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  #2  
Old 01-24-2012, 11:45 PM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

Sorry, I call it snake oil.

Dennis
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:12 AM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

150.00 I don't think so. Good Golly
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Old 01-25-2012, 05:39 AM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

Maybe, if it actually works, I got almost that into a drum dial, an evans torque key and a rhythm tech memo key and I find them all to be totally useless so where would that cash have been better spent?
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Old 01-25-2012, 05:51 AM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

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Maybe, if it actually works, I got almost that into a drum dial, an evans torque key and a rhythm tech memo key and I find them all to be totally useless so where would that cash have been better spent?
A professional drum instructor that can instruct you on the finer points of tuning.

With the item on this thread, there are just too many variables that will constitute an erroneous reading. I wouldn't waste my money on it.

Dennis
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  #6  
Old 01-25-2012, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

I saw that at NAMM, and it does work... assuming you tune your drum to a specific pitch. I don't tune that way, and it's rarely necessary for me to transfer the same tuning to different kits, so it's really not for me. But it does what it says.

Bermuda
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  #7  
Old 01-25-2012, 11:44 AM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

The reality is everybody tunes their drums to a pitched note, most don't know what those pitches are tho.

$150 is a jack for a tuner, a chromatic guitar tuner will do the same thing.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

With the "tuner" highlighted in this thread, and this is the engineer in me speaking, although my degree is not mechanical engineering, with uncontrolled outside variables, measuring devices can only be as accurate as those variables. The variables that I'm referring to is both the pressure needed on the head to prevent harmonics, the pressure of the stick hitting the head and also where the "tuner" is specifically placed on the hoop.

The manufacturer already stated that the "tuner" cannot read the note unless the harmonics of the drum were squelched. They did this with placing their hand on the middle of the drum head. This alone will alter the exact pitch of the head and depending on the pressure of the hand this could vary greatly and not be the same from tension rod to tension rod throughout the tuning process.

How hard the head is hit can vary the accuracy of such a device. A drum that is hit hard will sound different in pitch to a drum that is hit more softly or with more fitness. So it would seem to me that this device would show something a bit more sharp when hit with increase pressure.

Third, and this is pure speculation because I haven't had my hands on one of these "tuners", being placed on the hoop at ant particular point, I would believe that it would be more sensitive to the sound of the head at This point and would vary around the circumference of the drum head. As everyone knows, there is a vast difference in sound if the head is played in the center than if it's played more towards to tension rods where the "tuner" is placed.

One last question, who really knows if what your hearing is exactly what the "tuner's" display is indicating? This is not a big deal for me because if I would use the "tuner", it would be to perfectly be able to tune each tension rod to exactly the same pitch, but so far I haven't seen anything exacting or precision about this device to be thrilled with it's existence.

If you have a hundred and fifty dollar to blow on such a device and need a bit of a crutch to help your drum tuning, so be it. If it was me, I would find a reputable drum instructor and actually learn how to listen and be able to tune your drums by ear. Like drumming, both will take practice.

This is why I say "snake oil".

Dennis
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Old 01-25-2012, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
$150 is a jack for a tuner, a chromatic guitar tuner will do the same thing.
The drum tuner does more than just read an exact chromatic note, and it memorizes tunings for different drums so you can replicate the tuning (in theory) when replacing heads or on another kit.

BTW, 'street' on the unit will be $99, not $150. Still, an expensive accessory for those who are already successful at tuning.

Bermuda
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Old 01-25-2012, 05:48 PM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

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Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
The manufacturer already stated that the "tuner" cannot read the note unless the harmonics of the drum were squelched. They did this with placing their hand on the middle of the drum head.
Because I got the demonstration in person, I didn't watch the video. But what you describe is interesting. Harmonics are squelched my muting the edge of the drum head (the Richie Ring effect) not the center (which squelches the fundamental note, making the harmonics more apparent - the 'dot' head effect on increasing attack/volume.) I suppose I could see what they say in the video, but I also know how a drum head works and reacts to various mutings.

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Third, and this is pure speculation because I haven't had my hands on one of these "tuners", being placed on the hoop at ant particular point, I would believe that it would be more sensitive to the sound of the head at This point and would vary around the circumference of the drum head. As everyone knows, there is a vast difference in sound if the head is played in the center than if it's played more towards to tension rods where the "tuner" is placed.
The tuner actually read every lug point accurately from its single position. That is, it registered a reading. I can see where it's useful primarily if you want to tune each rod evenly, rather than hitting the center of the head while going from rod to rod, and just waiting until the drum sounds good. I like to start with the head being evenly tensioned, but it doesn't have to be exact, and I can certainly get there quickly without a device. I'm more concerned with how the drum actually sounds, than with the method used to get it there. There's a point where I do just hit the head and make adjustments while it's being played at a normal volume for the gig. Hence, things like tuners, drum dials and the dreaded torque key don't fit into my tool kit. These devices solve a problem, but it's not a problem that everyone has.

Bermuda
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  #11  
Old 01-25-2012, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

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Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
A professional drum instructor that can instruct you on the finer points of tuning.
LOL, Im usually the one teaching others how to tune by ear, I had only bought these items (which sit in my bag collecting dust) as others had raved at how fast they can tune a drum with them and figured anything that could speed up tuning at a gig would be a help but my finding is I can still tune faster by ear and can initially get them closer in pitch by using even turns on the key than using any of the drum dials or torque keys. (Although a torque key can be handy between songs at a gig to quickly tighten a tension rod that has loosened from rim shots) The only thing I have seen that actually works is a "resotune" which lays across the drum and sends a sonic signal thru the drum and registers the actual pitch of the shell or you can program in the pitch you want the drum to be and again it sends a sonic signal thru the drum and registers the reading at all points then actually tells you which lug to turn and which way to turn it, same type of system they use for tuning pianos but adapted for drums. But at $250 its a bit pricy but if you were an instructor or owned a music shop and were tuning alot of drums it could be a valuable tool, you could even offer "sonic drum tuning" as a service just like piano tuning. BTW some really good drummers just never get the concept on how to tune well or develop the ear to do it properly and not all race car drivers can tune an engine well either.
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  #12  
Old 01-25-2012, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

I saw this at NAMM and a got an in person demo, and thought it was pretty cool for what it is. Pricey, I agree, but cool none the less.

Unlike a chromatic tuner though, this allows you to just to tune to any pitch regardless of a specific note, or you have the option of tuning to a note. The average guitar tuner really doesn't allow for tuning to anything other than specific notes.

And unlike tensions watches, drum dials, and other items that measure criteria that should give you drum in tune, but don't always, this measures the sound of the drum itself, letting you know it's either in tune, or not. And while other tuning devices work on toms, I find most of them are useless on snare drums and bass drums, while this one works on snare drums easily enough, and should translate to a bass drum well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
With the "tuner" highlighted in this thread, and this is the engineer in me speaking, although my degree is not mechanical engineering, with uncontrolled outside variables, measuring devices can only be as accurate as those variables. The variables that I'm referring to is both the pressure needed on the head to prevent harmonics, the pressure of the stick hitting the head and also where the "tuner" is specifically placed on the hoop.

The manufacturer already stated that the "tuner" cannot read the note unless the harmonics of the drum were squelched. They did this with placing their hand on the middle of the drum head. This alone will alter the exact pitch of the head and depending on the pressure of the hand this could vary greatly and not be the same from tension rod to tension rod throughout the tuning process.

How hard the head is hit can vary the accuracy of such a device.
This is all very true, and I won't disagree. However, in tuning by ear, all these same variables exist. Taping around the edge of the head by hand is going to produce a variety of different pressures, which in theory are measurable, but in reality, we don't notice.

As for tune by ear, yes, that is the goal for any drummer. But how many times are we loading into a venue, and another band is soundchecking, or the DJ is testing out the PA, or your guitar player is testing his amp, or otherwise it's just too noisy to hear the difference from lug to lug? In the middle of NAMM, it's insanely noisy, yet this was (as far as I could tell) still able to get a measurement.

All decent guitar players can tune by ear, but all professional guitar players and professional roadies still have a tuner so that surrounding noise is not a factor. And that is where I see an interesting parallel.
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:37 PM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
All decent guitar players can tune by ear, but all professional guitar players and professional roadies still have a tuner so that surrounding noise is not a factor. And that is where I see an interesting parallel.
If drummers had to tune every few songs then we would be screwed ..lol, but as for guitar players using tuners, even if they dont need them they should use them as there is nothing worse than to go see a band and every few songs its ba-ping, ba-ping, boin-ing, boin-ing, doin-ing, doin-ing, well you get the picture, very unprofessional and annoying to the crowd to say the least. I have even been in bands that have hired a less talented guitar player because the "EVH clone" they auditioned the night before was "too good" or "to proud" to use a tuner.
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  #14  
Old 01-26-2012, 12:39 AM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

I see everyone's point of view. I'm not a technology snob, but I firmly believe that if I'm going to change my way of doing things, the new method must better better than what I'm already using. I've met a lot of people that are tone deaf and could not differentiate between two pitches that are fairly close to one another as in getting a head in-tune with itself. This is where my statement "learning how to hear" come into being. If you can't hear exactly what your doing, the outcome will be fruitless. This is just one of the reasons I always suggest a professional instructor. Most new players and some not so new to this craft start to have anxiety disorders when it comes to even turning a tension rod. This is where some of these tuners fall short, they don't instruct the player on how to hear but only give an indication on how the drum should sound.

I'm done and suppers here, lol.

Dennis
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Old 02-01-2012, 03:11 AM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

Does anyone know when these are going to be available for sale? It seems like a solid way to tune drums. Though the people who tune by ear and can distinguish pitches precisely wouldn't have a purpose for this. But not all of us are experts at tuning. If this thing will make my drums sound their best, I wouldn't have a problem paying $100 for it. I think it's about time something like this came out, it surely beats the drum dial and torque key IMO.
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  #16  
Old 02-01-2012, 03:32 AM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

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Originally Posted by drums137 View Post
Does anyone know when these are going to be available for sale? It seems like a solid way to tune drums. Though the people who tune by ear and can distinguish pitches precisely wouldn't have a purpose for this. But not all of us are experts at tuning. If this thing will make my drums sound their best, I wouldn't have a problem paying $100 for it. I think it's about time something like this came out, it surely beats the drum dial and torque key IMO.
According to the company's face book, Guitar Center ordered a bunch, and they should ship out in a couple of weeks.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tune-bot/233100610086495

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Old 02-01-2012, 03:47 AM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
I saw that at NAMM, and it does work... assuming you tune your drum to a specific pitch. I don't tune that way, and it's rarely necessary for me to transfer the same tuning to different kits, so it's really not for me. But it does what it says.

Bermuda
I agree. Saw the full demo live. It's no joke. I'm not paying that amount of coin for one but should have an answer soon on a better price.
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Old 02-01-2012, 05:14 AM
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I agree. Saw the full demo live. It's no joke. I'm not paying that amount of coin for one but should have an answer soon on a better price.
Rumor is they will sell for $99.

Which is still a lot of coin.

But as I said here: http://problemsandresults.com/blog/?p=52

You figure a drum dial is $59, and this should work 100 times better, and Boss TU-12 Chromatic Tuner (which is somewhat industry standard for a professional guitar tuner) sells for around $90-95, so maybe, just maybe, that price is not so far out there.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

Clip on


Base

iPhone


Tuners are cheap.

So some don't read every lug, who cares, ask yourself if you really need that.
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Last edited by Les Ismore; 02-02-2012 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:48 PM
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Clip on


Base


Tuners are cheap.

So some don't read every lug, who cares, ask yourself if you really need that.
Cheap tuners are cheap. How many pro guitarists walk around with a cheap tuner though?
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:53 PM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
Rumor is they will sell for $99.

Which is still a lot of coin.

But as I said here: http://problemsandresults.com/blog/?p=52

You figure a drum dial is $59, and this should work 100 times better, and Boss TU-12 Chromatic Tuner (which is somewhat industry standard for a professional guitar tuner) sells for around $90-95, so maybe, just maybe, that price is not so far out there.
I am not sure why some of you think the drum dial doesn't work. It does exactly what it is supposed to do. Measure the head tension at each lug. Then you just tweak it. At least you know you have the proper tension everywhere, and did not get thrown off by a tight nylon, tension rod stay, or a tight thread. After that you just do slight adjustments for perfection. Works great for me!
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

Even at 99.00 that will buy me a new set of heads.
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:03 PM
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Even at 99.00 that will buy me a new set of heads.
The heads are no good, if you can't tune them though. :)
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:28 PM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
Cheap tuners are cheap. How many pro guitarists walk around with a cheap tuner though?

They're cheap and they're accurate, accurate enough for drums all day long, as accurate as the TUNEBOT. I play bass and have a SNARK, use it over the BOSS TU12 any day.

BOSS TU12 is like 30 years old, dated, hard to read, 20th century design... your dads tuner.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
I am not sure why some of you think the drum dial doesn't work. It does exactly what it is supposed to do. Measure the head tension at each lug. Then you just tweak it. At least you know you have the proper tension everywhere, and did not get thrown off by a tight nylon, tension rod stay, or a tight thread. After that you just do slight adjustments for perfection. Works great for me!
Exact tension of the head really doesnt mean that much unless everything was perfect, mylar, hoop, bearing edge and roundness of shell which it will never be. Trust me and try this, start with a loose head and finger tighten all the lugs, then double check them to be sure they are all about the same with your fingers. Now tighten in a proper pattern in even steps 1/4 turn each or 1/2 turn each with your key and try to be somewhat fussy when doing it and when your at about the pitch you want then tap test to check and see how close all your tension rods are in pitch. Now take your drum dial and make them all the same according to the dial and you will be shocked at how much farther they are out now than they were before you used it. Dont get me wrong I would love nothing better than to have a tool to speed up the tuning process if and when somebody makes one that actually works for drums as well as a guitar tuner works for guitars but I have yet to see one other than the "resotune" which at $250 is just too pricy for the average joe. Maybe this new tuner will work quite well but will have to just wait and see and hopefully it will.

Last edited by tard; 02-02-2012 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:58 PM
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Exact tension of the head really doesnt mean that much unless everything was perfect, mylar, hoop, bearing edge and roundness of shell which it will never be. Trust me and try this, start with a loose head and finger tighten all the lugs, then double check them to be sure they are all about the same with your fingers. Now tighten in a proper pattern in even steps 1/4 turn each or 1/2 turn each with your key and try to be somewhat fussy when doing it and when your at about the pitch you want then tap test to check and see how close all your tension rods are in pitch. Now take your drum dial and make them all the same according to the dial and you will be shocked at how much farther they are out now than they were before you used it.
Perfect! Of course! We are talking about my drums you know. :) We are doing the same thing. I am just using the dial for peace of mind. That's all. Makes me happy. You can live with that can't you
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:04 PM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

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Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
They're cheap and they're accurate, accurate enough for drums all day long, as accurate as the TUNEBOT. I play bass and have a SNARK, use it over the BOSS TU12 any day.

BOSS TU12 is like 30 years old, dated, hard to read, 20th century design... your dads tuner.
You have actually tried to tune drums with a guitar tuner and not want to biff everything out the window part way thru the process? Ive tried it with several different tuners but never found one that would register a single reading and not jump around each time you struck the drum.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:06 PM
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Perfect! Of course! We are talking about my drums you know. :) We are doing the same thing. I am just using the dial for peace of mind. That's all. Makes me happy. You can live with that can't you
I sure can, just thought I might be able to actually save you some time as you got even more pieces to tune than I do...lol
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:21 PM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

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Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
They're cheap and they're accurate, accurate enough for drums all day long, as accurate as the TUNEBOT. I play bass and have a SNARK, use it over the BOSS TU12 any day.

BOSS TU12 is like 30 years old, dated, hard to read, 20th century design... your dads tuner.
BOSS just issued an updated version of it last year.
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:16 AM
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Default Re: New Compact Drum Tuner

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You have actually tried to tune drums with a guitar tuner and not want to biff everything out the window part way thru the process? Ive tried it with several different tuners but never found one that would register a single reading and not jump around each time you struck the drum.

I do it all the time, the key is to place the tuner under the drum reading the reso head and not strike it hard, you can use your finger, don't need to stick it.

You don't tune drums with an electronic devise (well, you shouldn't be), you 'check' your results with it. You should always tune with your ears.



BOSS just issued an updated version of it (TU-12 Tuner) last year.

Same orange face, small, hard to see read-out.

To be most useful, tuners need to be easy to read, the BOSS isn't, never was, not compared to the competition.
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