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  #1  
Old 01-16-2012, 04:24 AM
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Default Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

http://drumsonsale.com/product.php?id_product=19809 These look pretty nifty... digging the finishes, though I wish there were more, but who knows what will come down the road! You can see some of the flat-base line of their new Atlas hardware, which also looks pretty cool. It's gonna be a big NAMM for Ludwig this year!
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Old 01-16-2012, 04:42 AM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

I'd love to hear what those cherry/gumwood shells sound like. The "Jazzette" kit is gonna be a killer. For the 18, 12, 14 lovers. This could well be the new "king of the hill" for this price level. Say goodby to the reign of the Gretsch Catalina's ... there's a new player in town. And frankly, it's about time ...
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Old 01-16-2012, 04:50 AM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

I'd assume their the same (taiwanese?) shells from the Element SEs last year. That plus the "Special Edition" badging leads me to believe these will be a similar deal: a one or two year run in limited colors.
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Old 01-16-2012, 04:53 AM
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  #4  
Old 01-16-2012, 04:55 AM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

It is about time that Ludwig woke up a bit. (look out Tama Silverstar!)
These are the type of kits that I loved as a kid in the 60's.
The 35 degree bearing edge is interesting.
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Old 01-16-2012, 04:57 AM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumhedd View Post
I'd assume their the same (taiwanese?) shells from the Element SEs last year.
I wondered exactly the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
It only took them, what, 50 years to come out with something new. ;)
Hey, what are you still doing out? Day release ended hours ago........back in yer box!
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Old 01-16-2012, 06:22 AM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

Very cool! Not sure how much I dig the single lug look (I never did like it) but it definitely has Ludwig vibe all over it!
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Old 01-16-2012, 06:31 AM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Very cool! Not sure how much I dig the single lug look (I never did like it) but it definitely has Ludwig vibe all over it!
The lugs give the drums a very clean look I think. I always liked them as a kid. There were many drums with lugs like that.
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Old 01-16-2012, 07:50 AM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

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Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
The lugs give the drums a very clean look I think. I always liked them as a kid. There were many drums with lugs like that.
Perhaps it's a generational gap, Bob. Like maybe the difference between the "blue/olive" generation and the "keystone" generation?
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Old 01-16-2012, 01:24 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

LUDWIG will be making money on these sets. The crappiest wood they could find, single lugs mounted dead center of the shell, the worst place for resonance, unbeknownst to them in 62'.


$900 for a 4 piece? ...ooh wait, the description says 3 piece, so no snare.

Their name is their only hope of selling these sets. What if DIXON put out a configuration with hardware like this for $900? Everyone would laugh.

CLUB DATE was always a cheap set, all LUDWIG did was figure out how to increase the profit margin.

What did Flipper used to say? "Eheh Eheh"

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Old 01-16-2012, 01:41 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
The lugs give the drums a very clean look I think. I always liked them as a kid. There were many drums with lugs like that.
I've NEVER like the looks of those lugs either, but if they're Taiwanese shells it should be a quality improvement (putting on body armor), ok, let 'em fly...
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Old 01-16-2012, 02:46 PM
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  #11  
Old 01-16-2012, 03:07 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Perhaps it's a generational gap, Bob. Like maybe the difference between the "blue/olive" generation and the "keystone" generation?
It is generational Bo. When you become middle aged you fondly look back to things from your youth.
The truth will be in the sound. If these drums sound like the original Club Date kits they will have a really cool warm tone.
The price on the Club Date kits is a bit high for just a shell pack with no hardware or snare.
I think that Gretsch overprices the Cat's a bit too.
I can buy a real vintage Club Date kit with a snare and some hardware for what Ludwig wants for the three new drums.

They should have put vintage spurs on it to match the rail cassette. That would have really been cool.
There you have it Ludwig, Throw in some vintage spurs and a snare and it will be worth the price.
In the meantime I'll just keep playin my Sonor Safari.
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Old 01-16-2012, 03:27 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

"...Club Date Special Edition kit is made for the gigging drummer with an ear for classic Ludwig sound...":

If they're going for the classic sound (assuming the early 1960s) how can they accomplish that using a different wood (cherry/gum)? I'm sort of excited but reproducing the sound of a 50 year old drum is always a stretch. I'd rather buy a vintage set. Gretsch could use the competition, as I think their current product is a bit overrated. And Lesismore, I totally disagree. To each his/her own but the original club dates are the cat's meow.
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  #13  
Old 01-16-2012, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

I personally love the look and finishes, it totally looks just like a fun players kit. Not worth the price though, I shouldn't think. I'll wait for sound clips though. I'm defiantly getting some Atlas hardware though.
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  #14  
Old 01-16-2012, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

The "downbeat" is back too.

http://drumsonsale.com/product.php?id_product=19808

I so want one.

I wish they offered some of my personal favorite vintage finishes over the ones offered, but whatever.
I want one.

badly.
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  #15  
Old 01-16-2012, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
The "downbeat" is back too.

http://drumsonsale.com/product.php?id_product=19808

I so want one.

I wish they offered some of my personal favorite vintage finishes over the ones offered, but whatever.
I want one.

badly.
The link says they are no longer available? Were they referring to those Downbeat Epic kits? Or was it an actual Downbeat?

Maybe they'll be at NAMM.
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  #16  
Old 01-16-2012, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

OK, so now the website no longer losts these drums for sale? WTF? A change of heart? Mysterious...
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  #17  
Old 01-16-2012, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

Me thinks someone jumped the gun, and got their hand slapped.
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  #18  
Old 01-16-2012, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
The link says they are no longer available? Were they referring to those Downbeat Epic kits? Or was it an actual Downbeat?

Maybe they'll be at NAMM.
Ludwig website says nada, but that's not surprising, given last year it took them 6 months to update what was shown at NAMM.

Ludwig's facebook page has teasers, but no details
Quote:
Another unveiling at NAMM on January 19th, 2012 from Ludwig. This mixes a blast from the 60's with a new twist for today.
Along with a picture of a "clubdate" logo.

So, yes, I think the website jumped the gun with products that are not actually out yet.

I still want one. I have no idea where I'm going to find the extra cash, but this is exactly the kind of kit I've been wanting for a long time.
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  #19  
Old 01-16-2012, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

Here is the proper page with the well made model.

http://www.gretschdrums.com/?fa=drums&sid=575
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  #20  
Old 01-16-2012, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Here is the proper page with the well made model.

http://www.gretschdrums.com/?fa=drums&sid=575
If Gretch would only offer a 20" bass drum in a pre-pack.
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  #21  
Old 01-16-2012, 07:49 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post

I still want one. I have no idea where I'm going to find the extra cash, but this is exactly the kind of kit I've been wanting for a long time.
Well, save your pennies. Just for kicks I was cruisin' eBay for a Ludwig Downbeat sized kit and found a guy with a 12-14-20, and matching 5 snare in red sparkle for $1300. Another guy had the same sizes without the snare made by Slingerland but in super rare PURPLE sparkle and he wants $1800 for three friggin' drums!

Plenty of people are still selling those newer Ludwig Epic Downbeats - but the finishes I'm not really diggin'.
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Old 01-16-2012, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

I kinda dig that old "club date" stuff because of the vibe it has.

Don't care for the giant rail mount, and I hate a couple of the finish offerings.

DW's RM is a LOT nicer. Even though it's modern, it's less bulky than the Ludwig RM.

The FB stands look nice, and way better than the previous model...but no memory locks again?

I'll wait and see what their other hardware looks like before I form an opinion for myself, but the tilter looks kinda Yamaha/Pearl..... We'll see.

I would have liked to see a rounder look, like the older Atlas/Hercules stuff that LOOKED like "Ludwig Hardware", but they probably use the offset for people who fold down the tilter all the way.
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Old 01-16-2012, 08:29 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Well, save your pennies. Just for kicks I was cruisin' eBay for a Ludwig Downbeat sized kit and found a guy with a 12-14-20, and matching 5 snare in red sparkle for $1300. Another guy had the same sizes without the snare made by Slingerland but in super rare PURPLE sparkle and he wants $1800 for three friggin' drums!

Plenty of people are still selling those newer Ludwig Epic Downbeats - but the finishes I'm not really diggin'.
That's why I'm so excited about these kits. Yeah, a vintage 12-14-20 is usually around $1200-$1300 in 1/2 decent condition. often much more $ if in pristine condition. Spending that much cash defeats the purpose of having a "beater" kit for playing small bars, etc. Heck, last time I also bid on a Ludwig 12-14-20 kit, it was thrashed, full of extra drilled holes, and missing hardware, and yet it still went for almost $700.

A vintage looking kit for $800 suites my purpose much better. And it won't require repairing it.

And yeah, those Epic SE kits in the mod colors are pretty ugly.
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  #24  
Old 01-16-2012, 09:00 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

Personally, I do not care for the one lug in the middle, and I am 55. I'll keep my Gretsch CCJ kit, especially now that the 12" tom sounds as good as the rest of it. I just ordered new cases for them. Peace and goodwill.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

I love Ludwig but it seems to me that they just had a lot of "Element SE" stock left over so we are going to try another vintage vibe kit & call it the "Club Date".

If i'm not mistaken the first Club-Date's were Mahogany/Poplar shells which is probably why they went with the Cherry/Gumwood shells.

IMO they should've re-introduced the Club-Dates with the original shell formula they had back when it debuted.

I'm interested in hearing the drums with the new edges though.

Bonzolead
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:16 PM
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  #26  
Old 01-16-2012, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Well, save your pennies. Just for kicks I was cruisin' eBay for a Ludwig Downbeat sized kit and found a guy with a 12-14-20, and matching 5 snare in red sparkle for $1300. Another guy had the same sizes without the snare made by Slingerland but in super rare PURPLE sparkle and he wants $1800 for three friggin' drums!

Plenty of people are still selling those newer Ludwig Epic Downbeats - but the finishes I'm not really diggin'.
Sorry Bo but I still love my "Epic's"...lol



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Old 01-16-2012, 09:20 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

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Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
It only took them, what, 50 years to come out with something new. ;)
Sticks...you better check your time line on that. and consult a few catalogs.There has been a lot of innovation by Ludwig,in even the last 10 years.

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Old 01-16-2012, 09:23 PM
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  #28  
Old 01-16-2012, 09:28 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

Ludwig has to do a real "balancing" act here. The old Club Date was not a "cheap drum set". It was more affordable. Used the same 3 ply shells as the Classics. Reinforcement rings, and everything. But no way are they gonna do that today. Just the extra man hours, to glue reinforcement rings into a shell. Big money. What, use Legacy shells, and mount center lugs and "big nail spurs" onto the kit? Hardly. So yeah, they look to Asia for shells, to keep the cost down. They have the connections now, to do that. Connections they didn't have, in the 60's. Would I rather have cherry/gumwood shells over Philippine (luan) mahogany? Yes, I would.
And as much as I'd like to see the rail consolette, it's probably not offered, simple because it would raise the price too much. Far as I know, Ludwig still makes those, but they're kinda pricey, and vintage parts run $75-$200, depending on condition. The "original" straight" nail spurs? Please, leave those in the past. For a "retro" look, I'd go with fold out spurs.
My prediction, they'll sell a boatload of these, especially in the "Jazzette" package. You see it here, on this forum. As much as you try to prod people to buy "used" gear ... there's still a huge group that wants "brand new". And, nothing wrong with that. Certainly not my deal, but the world would be a pretty boring place if we all thought the same. And so, there's plenty of cats who will keep their pristine 2 grand drum kits at home, and gig out with a sub-grand kit.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:32 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

Sticks, Gretsch has used the same lugs, rims etc... forever. It's part of what makes them "Gretsch". Same with Ludwig, Slingerland....

I really don't see how the lugs look "old". Just because they never changed them?
Why would they want to change them?

They're Art Deco, which is a great style IMO, and instantly recognizeable--which a company would want.

The Keystone lugs and brackets are new, on a whole new line.

You might not like them, but I wouldn't ever want them to change the look of the lug.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:40 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

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Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
The only reason people would buy this scary looking thing is because it says Ludwig on the bass drum. It looks like someone pulled it out of a garage sale. I don't get the look at all. Sorry. Just my opinion.
Yard sale? Really?Why all the negativity?I'm a member on a few drum forums,and these kits are overwhelmingly,being touted as something the rank and file drummer yould love to play and own.The current trend is less is more.

Bass drums,lighter hardware for giging drummers.You can't gig 3 nights a week with a 16 piece,rack mounted monster.

Look back through drum set history,and you will find,that whats old is new again.Do you think the uber deep bass drum is new?Louis Bellson,among others was using them in the early 40's. Monster kits..again,something old made new.Drum racks.....not as eladorate,but still being used in the 30's

Dude,I get that you're entitled to your opinion,and I respect that,but your "opinion" here in nothing less that an attack of a personal nature.Your assessment of these drums,without even hearing,playing or seeing them,bears out your brand hatred.

Steve B
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

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Originally Posted by tamadrm View Post
Yard sale? Really?Why all the negativity?I'm a member on a few drum forums,and these kits are overwhelmingly,being touted as something the rank and file drummer yould love to play and own.The current trend is less is more.

Bass drums,lighter hardware for giging drummers.You can't gig 3 nights a week with a 16 piece,rack mounted monster.

Look back through drum set history,and you will find,that whats old is new again.Do you think the uber deep bass drum is new?Louis Bellson,among others was using them in the early 40's. Monster kits..again,something old made new.Drum racks.....not as eladorate,but still being used in the 30's

Dude,I get that you're entitled to your opinion,and I respect that,but your "opinion" here in nothing less that an attack of a personal nature.Your assessment of these drums,without even hearing,playing or seeing them,bears out your brand hatred.

Steve B
A personal attack on who? The drums aren't real people you know. They look terrible to me. I am allowed to say that. People were allowed to crap all over the new Mapex stuff. Go look at the comments on the new Mapex gear. People crapped all over my badges, when I was showing off my personal kit. I would not do that to someone on here all proud of their new product. This is against a company that lives in the past. Not you or anyone else in particular. They love to recycle stuff. It is obvious. The name on the product is their biggest selling feature. Just My Opinion. Don't take it personally. This is what you guys have been trying to teach me. Right.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:53 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

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Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
But everything looks OLD! Why?
Because drummers love the look.............they always will.Its timeless,classic,and as relevant now,as it was then.

I live in NY city.I love the look of the Empire State Building,built in the depression.I love the look of the Statue of Liberty,St.Patricks Cathedrel,The Richmond town restoration(Colonial ).Its history,and I embrace it.The history is rich here

I understand we have to move foward,but to throw the baby out wit the bathwater dosen't work fo me,and plenty of others.

Check out the history of drumming,development of the drum set,and early drum construction,and developement.You will find that except for heavier hardware,and more variety in everything from cymbals,to finishes.that not a whole lot has changed.Its just reinvented.

Steve B
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:54 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

I am not talking about the size of the kit either. I never mentioned anything about the size. I Don't care how many drums someone has. You could add 10 pieces to that kit, and it would not help it in the least. I know people are lazy nowadays, and don't want to carry a lot of drums. That is fine.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:57 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

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Originally Posted by tamadrm View Post
Because drummers love the look.............they always will.Its timeless,classic,and as relevant now,as it was then.

I live in NY city.I love the look of the Empire State Building,built in the depression.I love the look of the Statue of Liberty,St.Patricks Cathedrel,The Richmond town restoration(Colonial ).Its history,and I embrace it.The history is rich here

I understand we have to move foward,but to throw the baby out wit the bathwater dosen't work fo me,and plenty of others.

Check out the history of drumming,development of the drum set,and early drum construction,and developement.You will find that except for heavier hardware,and more variety in everything from cymbals,to finishes.that not a whole lot has changed.Its just reinvented.

Steve B
Buddy, If you like them, then that is fine. I don't, and have my opinion. My buddy hates the look also. I am sure many other drummers do also. Everyone has an opinion. It is all good. Please don't take offence to it. If it bothers you that much I will get rid of my comments and not make anymore. It is not worth hurting your feelings over. It is just drums. :)
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Old 01-16-2012, 10:00 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

I deleted my comments. If you would just get rid of your quoted ones, then they will be gone. I don't need to make you feel like I have felt over and over again on forums. It is not worth it. Sorry buddy.
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  #36  
Old 01-16-2012, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

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Originally Posted by bonzolead View Post
Sorry Bo but I still love my "Epic's"...lol



Bonzolead
No no, don't get me wrong. I'm sure the drums are great. And I love those sizes, I'm just not a fan of the finishes. Personally, if they just cranked 'em out in the standard pearls and some sparkles, I think they'd go like hotcakes. Maybe if I wait long enough they eventually will....which is why I hadn't jumped on the Epics yet. But I still may if I ever get tired of nine-pieces of Pearl EXR double bass glory....
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  #37  
Old 01-16-2012, 10:07 PM
tamadrm tamadrm is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

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Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
A personal attack on who? The drums aren't real people you know. They look terrible to me. I am allowed to say that. People were allowed to crap all over the new Mapex stuff. Go look at the comments on the new Mapex gear. People crapped all over my badges, when I was showing off my personal kit. I would not do that to someone on here all proud of their new product. This is against a company that lives in the past. Not you or anyone else in particular. They love to recycle stuff. It is obvious. The name on the product is their biggest selling feature. Just My Opinion. Don't take it personally. This is what you guys have been trying to teach me. Right.
Count me out of the naysayers,as far as Mapex.

Gretsch is also a great drum company that embraces the past,and there's nothing wrong with that.

I remember the majority of members who posted concerning your new gear being very positive,myself included.The only negative thing some of us said,was that the badges were too big,and distracted from the beautiful finish on those drums.I said that then,and I'll say it again.Why go through the trouble of putting a finish on those drums...second to none...and use a huge badge to cover it?

As far as personal attack...my meaning was that you seem to be personally offended by the new/old club date line.I can understand not liking the look,but before condemning the entire line,before hearing what they sound like,build quality,and playability,not to mention , Ludwig in general.Wait for the jury to be in.

Shooting from the hip is for gun fights.Judge slowly Sticks;)

Steve B
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  #38  
Old 01-16-2012, 10:09 PM
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bonzolead bonzolead is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Clarkston,MI.
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
A personal attack on who? The drums aren't real people you know. They look terrible to me. I am allowed to say that. People were allowed to crap all over the new Mapex stuff. Go look at the comments on the new Mapex gear. People crapped all over my badges, when I was showing off my personal kit. I would not do that to someone on here all proud of their new product. This is against a company that lives in the past. Not you or anyone else in particular. They love to recycle stuff. It is obvious. The name on the product is their biggest selling feature. Just My Opinion. Don't take it personally. This is what you guys have been trying to teach me. Right.
The reason Ludwig sometimes lives in the past is because the have a past & it was good until the late 80's..lol

IMO Ludwig isn't. just living in the past the Keystone's are oak/maple/oak shells & have a duel 45 deg. bearing edges hardly vintage heck even my Epic's are a new shell formula.

I personally don't. care for the one-lug Club-Dates but I didn't. like ones from the 60's either.

but there is a market for "Vintage" just look at the new Yamaha Club-Custom series..a Ludwig rip-off..for sure & what are they going for $2500?..oh yeah you get a snare..oooooooooooo..lol

Bonzolead
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  #39  
Old 01-16-2012, 10:14 PM
sticks4drums
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamadrm View Post
Count me out of the naysayers,as far as Mapex.

Gretsch is also a great drum company that embraces the past,and there's nothing wrong with that.

I remember the majority of members who posted concerning your new gear being very positive,my self included.The only negative thing some of us said,was that the badges were too big,and distracted from the beautiful finish on those drums.I sais that now,and I'll say it again.Why go through the trouble of putting a finish on those drums...second to none...and us a huge badeg to cover it?

As far as personal attack...my meaning was that you seem to be personally offended by the new/old club date line.I can understand noy liking the look,but before condemning the entire line and Ludwig in general.......wait for the jury to be in.

Shooting from the hip is for gun fights.Judge slowly sticks;)

Steve B
I never said they sounded bad. All I said is they look terrible to me. On looks alone, I would not buy them. I only judged what I can see. Hey I bought the damn snare didn't I! :)
The problem with strong opinions, is they usually offend someone. Maybe we should all just stick to positive stuff. It might get a little boring around here. :)
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  #40  
Old 01-16-2012, 10:16 PM
sticks4drums
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Default Re: Ludwig 2012... Club Date is back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonzolead View Post
The reason Ludwig sometimes lives in the past is because the have a past & it was good until the late 80's..lol

IMO Ludwig isn't. just living in the past the Keystone's are oak/maple/oak shells & have a duel 45 deg. bearing edges hardly vintage heck even my Epic's are a new shell formula.

I personally don't. care for the one-lug Club-Dates but I didn't. like ones from the 60's either.

but there is a market for "Vintage" just look at the new Yamaha Club-Custom series..a Ludwig rip-off..for sure & what are they going for $2500?..oh yeah you get a snare..oooooooooooo..lol

Bonzolead
Yes, everyone has a past. I have spent most of my life trying to forget mine. :/
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