DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 02-05-2015, 07:21 AM
Blueskitten Blueskitten is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Clarksdale, MS
Posts: 3
Default Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

In my short drumming experience (5 yrs) and living in a town that is referred to as "Ground Zero for the Blues" I get very frustrated with the blues bands here. I have been taking private lessons & lessons at a local blues museum for 5 yrs. I wish I had been around earlier - I would have been a great drummer for the old Delta blues musicians! I know my drumming strengths & weaknesses. I am great at keeping a beat but simplistic in my fills but the fills I do are appropriate to the songs. I am often asked to sit in for jams or to do some drumming with bands ("guest drummer") but I always refuse due to the intimidation I feel about drummers who are all over the drums. Is this common to feel or is my lack of confidence holding me back? I don't want to be a rock & roll drummer - I prefer the Ola Dixon philosophy: "I may not be fancy but boy can I keep the beat".
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-05-2015, 07:27 AM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,089
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

Your lack of confidence.

You've been asked to sit in, and you refuse? That's on you.

Most blues bands, and heck, even most rock bands I've played with just want someone to keep the beat with occasional fill that is appropriate for the music.

Unless you're auditioning for a prog or fusion band, most bands don't want a drummer who is all over the place.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-05-2015, 07:39 AM
KamaK KamaK is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: East Coast
Posts: 1,422
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

Stage fright, self consciousness, intimidation.... Conquering all of those is what separates a guy on stage from a guy at the bar, and a source of great personal gratification.

Everyone has their own way of dealing with it, because everyone suffers a bit differently. For me, I just figure, "Why bother playing if you're never going to perform?". Then I suck it up and get on stage with as much confidence and ability that I can muster. It gets much easier once you're four bars in and you realize it was all in your head.

So find your courage, and get it on.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-05-2015, 07:54 AM
Anon La Ply's Avatar
Anon La Ply Anon La Ply is offline
Renegade
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cyberspace
Posts: 4,835
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueskitten View Post
I am often asked to sit in for jams or to do some drumming with bands ("guest drummer") but I always refuse due to the intimidation I feel about drummers who are all over the drums. Is this common to feel or is my lack of confidence holding me back? I don't want to be a rock & roll drummer - I prefer the Ola Dixon philosophy: "I may not be fancy but boy can I keep the beat".
Ha! I sure knew that feeling at the London Drum Show a couple of years ago. You wouldn't want to get up there because there was a bunch of people around you ripping around the kit as though their lives depended on it. It was pretty intimidating.

But ... and it's a big "but", most of them sounded horrible! They were impressive but most sounded cacophonous and ugly. It wasn't music, it was mostly just a bunch of people waggling their dicks, to be frank.

You, my fine feline friend, appear not to be a wang waggler by nature, but someone who just wants to play music. More power to you.

Don't be fooled by musicians giving good feedback to drummers when they flash around. It's true that many other musicians get a kick out of a drummer letting rip. However, most get even more of a kick out of playing with a drummer who is listening intently and making the whole band sound and feel good.
__________________
Soundcloud

YouTube

Off-the-wall
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-05-2015, 08:30 AM
Matt Bo Eder's Avatar
Matt Bo Eder Matt Bo Eder is online now
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Disneyland, CA
Posts: 638
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

Max Roach told a story of a Gretsch Drum Night the company did eons ago when he and other drum luminaries were there to play and demonstrate. Everyone, including him played all their best licks and demonstrated their athletic capabilities on the drums.

Then Gene Krupa arrived and played his famous "Sing Sing Sing" solo which is really all just 8th notes.

The crowd went crazy.

Max said that was best drum lesson he ever got!

You do your thing and don't worry about others. Get out there and play when asked to. That's how you get to play for others. Have fun!
__________________
YouTube channel: youtube.com/user/boeder101
Photoblog: mattederblog.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-05-2015, 08:45 AM
alparrott's Avatar
alparrott alparrott is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wenatchee, WA
Posts: 4,354
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

I see this all the time at the local blues jam. The shredders or the inexperienced get up there, and it doesn't fit the music. Most blues involve solid time, transparent structures, and a very good ear. You can't have that if you're only interested in you.

Don't get intimidated. Get confident. You might be the only authentic blues drummer in the house!
__________________
Al Parrott
"Jus suum cuique"
-------------------------------------------------------
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-05-2015, 08:51 AM
Hollywood Jim's Avatar
Hollywood Jim Hollywood Jim is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 1,364
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

I play drums at a lot of different open mic jams. Once or twice a week.

During songs everyone gets a solo. Always Guitars and Harps, always Keyboards and Bass Players. Always Brass instruments and always Sax Players.
Solos, solos, solos, all night long. Everybody takes a solo.

Almost never do they point to the drummer for a drum solo.

Why is that?

.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-05-2015, 11:43 AM
mikel mikel is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,057
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

As the man said, just play your thing. Dont knock the others for the way they play, and hope they treat you with the same respect.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-05-2015, 02:55 PM
No Way Jose's Avatar
No Way Jose No Way Jose is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Between the hi hat and floor tom
Posts: 303
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

I struggle with this too because I'm not a fancy drummer that hits everything real fast all the time.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-05-2015, 03:11 PM
chipotle's Avatar
chipotle chipotle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 116
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim View Post
I play drums at a lot of different open mic jams. Once or twice a week.

During songs everyone gets a solo. Always Guitars and Harps, always Keyboards and Bass Players. Always Brass instruments and always Sax Players.
Solos, solos, solos, all night long. Everybody takes a solo.

Almost never do they point to the drummer for a drum solo.

Why is that?

.
...and then if they point to the drummer to solo the rest of the band goes to grab a beer.

I preferred a drum solo taken with the rest of the band just like any other instrument.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-05-2015, 03:23 PM
8Mile's Avatar
8Mile 8Mile is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 2,897
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueskitten View Post
I am often asked to sit in for jams or to do some drumming with bands ("guest drummer") but I always refuse due to the intimidation I feel about drummers who are all over the drums. Is this common to feel or is my lack of confidence holding me back?
It sounds like it's your lack of confidence holding you back. Most blues bands would love a drummer who takes your approach. Wouldn't it be funny if not sounding like those other drummers is the very thing that would set you apart and make you a drummer they'd rather play with?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-05-2015, 03:48 PM
Midnite Zephyr's Avatar
Midnite Zephyr Midnite Zephyr is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Surf City, CA
Posts: 3,572
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
It sounds like it's your lack of confidence holding you back. Most blues bands would love a drummer who takes your approach. Wouldn't it be funny if not sounding like those other drummers is the very thing that would set you apart and make you a drummer they'd rather play with?
Spot on, Larry. Perception is reality.
__________________
5A Sticks--Coated Heads--Acoustic Drums--Cast Bronze Cymbals--Heavy-Duty Hardware
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-05-2015, 03:56 PM
GRUNTERSDAD's Avatar
GRUNTERSDAD GRUNTERSDAD is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Florida's West Coast
Posts: 16,025
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

Enter Ringo. Just play for the music. Fancy never got anyone anywhere
__________________
Thank you for sharing my day.
Gretsch Renown
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-05-2015, 05:30 PM
motleyh's Avatar
motleyh motleyh is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 334
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

Open jams are not the real world. Usually, drummers that indulge in flashy playing at the jams are not the ones that actually get the gigs with the working bands -- especially where the blues is concerned. Play 'em the way they're supposed to be, and the other players will want to work with you more. Overplay and you'll have your fifteen minutes of fame, but not much else.

As the saying goes, you get paid for the two and the four.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-05-2015, 06:58 PM
mikel mikel is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,057
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

[quote=motleyh;1325666]Open jams are not the real world. Usually, drummers that indulge in flashy playing at the jams are not the ones that actually get the gigs with the working bands -- especially where the blues is concerned. Play 'em the way they're supposed to be, and the other players will want to work with you more. Overplay and you'll have your fifteen minutes of fame, but not much else.

As the saying goes, you get paid for the two and the four.[/QUOTE]

Not necesarily. Perhaps the jam night he attends is a "Lets see what you can do" night. Just cos you "can" play 2 and 4 all night does not mean you have too, or indeed that it is all a band wants. There are lots of drummers out there, with rock solid timing, that can bring much more to the party, If that is what the band wants. Different strokes, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-05-2015, 07:11 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 14,417
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

From my experience, the thread title is off. If there are blues bands in your world and every drummer in your world seems like a rock drummer, it sounds like an assumption is being made that blues bands want rock drummers. Real blues bands don't want rock drummers. Now a blues-rock band might want a rock drummer. There's a big difference in attitude between those 2 types of bands.

It sounds like you're selling yourself way short in your situation. The way I'm reading it is....they are dying for an actual blues drummer like you to play. Believe me, (in my world anyway) guitarists don't normally go out of their way to ask drummers to sit in, so that alone speaks volumes. It sounds like your reputation precedes you. That's a good thing in this case. If you are being asked....by guitarists? Yes, don't refuse, don't try and be like the other drummers, just do what you do as easy and naturally as you can. Just know that everything you do is fine and NEVER question yourself. You are NEVER boring by laying a beat down with little embellishment. That's what blues is screaming out for, a drummer who won't screw with the music. It's supposed to be simple and rootsier by nature, that's the beauty of it.

Really, they are asking you. The least you could do is oblige them. F the other drummers, are they being asked? It sounds more like they are being tolerated.

It sounds like you are on the verge of getting asked to be a full time drummer if you are being asked by guitarists to sit it. I'd consider that a big deal and a testament to your playing. Just never doubt yourself, you're great exactly like you are. In fact your humble attitude is a big part of that. Don't lose that, but stop denying them your abilities.
__________________
The best way to do art, is to dispense with good and bad...and just get on with it.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-05-2015, 10:25 PM
JustJames's Avatar
JustJames JustJames is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 1,094
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

Great replies from the Larrys.

OP, heed the advice, for it is amongst the best given
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-05-2015, 11:15 PM
Blueskitten Blueskitten is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Clarksdale, MS
Posts: 3
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

Thanks to all for your advice, opinions,etc. I will take it seriously. I also thank you for giving me a little more self-confidence!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-05-2015, 11:21 PM
New Tricks New Tricks is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: AZ
Posts: 1,162
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueskitten View Post
I know my drumming strengths & weaknesses. I am great at keeping a beat but simplistic in my fills but the fills I do are appropriate to the songs. .

Just do what you do.

Generally, there will be more demand for a simplistic drummer.

I know my strengths and weaknesses also and I'm not at all shy about them. I was working on a song this morning that was a perfect example. At 175 BPM, I realized right away that I wasn't able to comfortably play the 16th note on the hats for the duration of the song.
...
Am I going to practice and try and improve my skills so I can play like Carmine...whoops, Cozy..... played It? Hell no, I'm going to play 1/8 notes and let the vocals, guitar, bass and keys pick up the slack while I enjoy the hell out of the song :)

Last edited by New Tricks; 02-06-2015 at 01:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-06-2015, 12:55 AM
SmoothOperator SmoothOperator is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 460
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

Blues Musicians are a strange sort, if you can't carry the show by yourself they don't want you, if you can do it yourself they don't want. If you can't keep a beat they don't want you if you do keep a beat they don't want cause make everyone sound bad. If you play the perfect sick beat they'll think you're a pansy... Anyway, I get tired of this belly-achin, and change the station.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-06-2015, 02:27 AM
Matt Bo Eder's Avatar
Matt Bo Eder Matt Bo Eder is online now
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Disneyland, CA
Posts: 638
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothOperator View Post
Blues Musicians are a strange sort, if you can't carry the show by yourself they don't want you, if you can do it yourself they don't want. If you can't keep a beat they don't want you if you do keep a beat they don't want cause make everyone sound bad. If you play the perfect sick beat they'll think you're a pansy... Anyway, I get tired of this belly-achin, and change the station.
Are you sure you're talking about just blues musicians?

I find mostly all musicians a little weird ;)
__________________
YouTube channel: youtube.com/user/boeder101
Photoblog: mattederblog.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-06-2015, 03:41 AM
SmoothOperator SmoothOperator is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 460
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder View Post
Are you sure you're talking about just blues musicians?

I find mostly all musicians a little weird ;)
People, primates, certain species of small flying mammals, possibly other creatures with or without a spine.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-06-2015, 07:50 AM
Aeolian's Avatar
Aeolian Aeolian is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Posts: 1,949
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

Blues is a whole different thing than rock. Especially folks into more traditional Chicago or Texas blues, Hubert, Muddy, Freddie and so on. The last thing they want to hear is someone doing a ZZ Top shuffle with their foot. Get a good double shuffle with a solid backbeat going and the calls will pour in from folks wanting to play their kind of blues. Learn the rest of the blues drumming vocabulary and you'll be the most popular guy in town. Most of the fills are simple triplets with both hands. You need a good left hand to be a blues drummer. But you don't need to play 5 or 9 over four linear fills. I have a friend who can do that stuff and toured with John Lee Hooker and Charlie Musselwhite. But he sure didn't do it around John Lee.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-06-2015, 02:31 PM
SmoothOperator SmoothOperator is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 460
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolian View Post
Blues is a whole different thing than rock. Especially folks into more traditional Chicago or Texas blues, Hubert, Muddy, Freddie and so on. The last thing they want to hear is someone doing a ZZ Top shuffle with their foot. Get a good double shuffle with a solid backbeat going and the calls will pour in from folks wanting to play their kind of blues. Learn the rest of the blues drumming vocabulary and you'll be the most popular guy in town. Most of the fills are simple triplets with both hands. You need a good left hand to be a blues drummer. But you don't need to play 5 or 9 over four linear fills. I have a friend who can do that stuff and toured with John Lee Hooker and Charlie Musselwhite. But he sure didn't do it around John Lee.
Backing JLH is one thing. Playing with John Pond Scum while he tries to knock off John Lee Hooker's licks, at the local watering hole is different thing altogether.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-06-2015, 02:40 PM
mikel mikel is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,057
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

To get back to the original post. Why do Blues Bands wand rock and roll drummers? What is a rock and roll drummer? For that matter what is a Blues Band. If you sais "Traditional" blues band, but that still opens up lots of posibilities.

Trad blues was played by solo musician/vocalists back in the day. Bands came later. The British Blues Boom took it a few steps further away from the original, but so what? Music evolves, always has.

There are lots of definitions of Blues Band, Delta, Texas, Detroit, R n B, etc etc, take your pick.

A band picks musicians for a number of reasons.... tradition, experimentation, evolution, continuity, or just cos they like the playing and they get on.

Dont knock other drummers for the way they play, or bands for wanting something you dont do. Its not personal its just horses for courses. Do what you do and find a band that likes it, and you like them, Its not rocket science.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-06-2015, 04:19 PM
SpareRib SpareRib is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 73
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

I think the way that you sound and look when you play are very important elements that shape people's opinions and perceptions of your playing. If you produce good tone, keep a steady beat, and look like you are listening to others and having fun other musicians will gravitate to you. Especially the listening part. If you have an understanding of rhythyms, dynamics and song structures you will probably have very good MUSICAL instincts. That is very attractive to other musicians.

Just my .02. Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-06-2015, 06:46 PM
MikeM's Avatar
MikeM MikeM is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,813
Default Re: Why do blues bands want "rock & roll" drummers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikel View Post
To get back to the original post. Why do Blues Bands wand rock and roll drummers? What is a rock and roll drummer? For that matter what is a Blues Band. If you sais "Traditional" blues band, but that still opens up lots of posibilities.

Trad blues was played by solo musician/vocalists back in the day. Bands came later. The British Blues Boom took it a few steps further away from the original, but so what? Music evolves, always has.

There are lots of definitions of Blues Band, Delta, Texas, Detroit, R n B, etc etc, take your pick.

A band picks musicians for a number of reasons.... tradition, experimentation, evolution, continuity, or just cos they like the playing and they get on.

Dont knock other drummers for the way they play, or bands for wanting something you dont do. Its not personal its just horses for courses. Do what you do and find a band that likes it, and you like them, Its not rocket science.
I really like this sentiment. I read the OP the same way and thought the same thing. Basically, the OP has a clear idea of how he wants to lay it down, and while that might not be what some other cats are doing, that's what makes it a beautiful thing.

In my world, I see a lot of drummers who just want to hold it down and stay out of the way while the bands they play in could really benefit from more intensity from the drums, so this idea really cuts both ways.

Be true to your core and find like-minded players. But for the love of all that is righteous and holy, sieze those opportunities when they present themselves! Show 'em how it's done. With your ear for authenticity and a real fan of the form, you're in the best position to deliver the proper goods. Not surprised you're getting the calls.

Awesome posts by the Larrys, and Grea's observation about indecent exposures were not only hilarious (as usual) but well worth noting.
__________________
><Darwin> Recent band.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com