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  #1  
Old 12-12-2011, 08:10 PM
The Edge The Edge is offline
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Default Yamaha yess mounting problem

I purchased a maple custom absolute nouveau, used in good condition, a few weeks ago. The drums have been great, except for my 12" tom. It is not resonating properly.

I'm the 3 hole bass drum mount, with a 10" and the 12", both using their short hex red yess mount. The hex rod mounts are in good to excellent condition. the 10" has plenty of resonance.

I've experimented with the 12". At first, I thought the problems were the heads. They're not dead, but they're a little used. I placed the 12" on a snare stand. It resonates fine. I've held the drum by the yess mount in my hand. It sounds good. I've placed the drum with the yess mount, placed it in the 3 hole receiver, held the receiver...sounds fine.

The problem seems to be that when I place the entire mount system with the toms into the bass drum. For some reason, the 12" chokes.

Has anyone had a similar experience like mine?

I've considered using clamps and mounting each tom from a cymbal stand, but I enjoy using the bass drum mount live because it's so convenient.

Any feedback would be appreciated. Sorry for the long narrative.
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2011, 10:41 PM
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Default Re: Yamaha yess mounting problem

YESS to your question. I had similar wacky experiences with my YESS-mounted 14" tom. I ended up buying a R.I.M.S. alloy suspension hoop to deal with it once and for all. With my 12", it seems to resonate pretty good on my kit, but when I try to add the Yamaha short boom cymbal arm to the tom holder, the 12" tom chokes. Sound strange ? Probably not to you, at this point. Try mounting the 12" first, check it, and then mount the 10", and see if the sound changes. If you can't isolate or fix it, worst case, you can install your own hoop mount like I did. You can try mounting them to cymbal stands, but I think the surest way to solve it is to abandon YESS and change the mounts on the drums themselves (or at least on the 12" which is giving you trouble). Yamaha makes great drums and hardware, but the YESS system is easily its weak link, which drags down their drum kits IMO.
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:57 PM
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Default Re: Yamaha yess mounting problem

I've had my Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute kit for over three years and the only time my 12" tom doesn't resonant as well as the 8" or 10" is when it is a little out of tune and that can be rectified in about a minute. They're probably my most played set of drums, especially with all the parties going on this month. I hear this reference about the YESS mounts fairly often and for me, as I stated above, it's always a slight tuning matter. BTW, I'm using Evans G1 coated for the batter heads and G1 clear for the resonant heads. Tuning to the shells resonance really enhances the sound of this set of drums.



Dennis
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  #4  
Old 12-13-2011, 05:45 AM
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Default Re: Yamaha yess mounting problem

YESS, me too. I've had this problem in the past with a Yamaha Maple Custom kit. I consider myself a decent tuner, and have been playing Yamaha since 1982, so I'm a Yamaha guy. But, I use RIMS for any toms that had YESS mounts. I sold that Maple Custom becuase the 12" was so dead sounding. I changed to lighter heads and tried all kinds of tunings, but nothing helped.
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  #5  
Old 12-13-2011, 05:55 AM
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Default Re: Yamaha yess mounting problem

i had a problem like this with my stage custom that is around 8 years old. i'm not sure if the YESS mounting is the exact same but i noticed on mine that if the rod isn't touching the felt patch it doesn't resonate as much
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  #6  
Old 12-13-2011, 06:52 AM
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Default Re: Yamaha yess mounting problem

there is a bob gatzen video on youtube that addresses this. try moving your 12 inch tom in different positions on the hex rod. Bring it all the way to the end and slowly move back. You will soon find the sweet spot... or you should atleast.
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  #7  
Old 12-13-2011, 06:53 AM
The Edge The Edge is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha yess mounting problem

I've tried different positions on the mount. Nothing has really worked. I'm confident my tuning is adequate, although the heads aren't brand new. Tney are in decent shape.

With that said, I am putting new heads on, coated Amb on top and clear Amb on bottom. Hopefully, something magical will happen and it'll start working. I will be really bummed if I can't solve this problem.
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:07 AM
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Default Re: Yamaha yess mounting problem

A big problem is the YAMAHA down tube is its all of 7/8" a bit too small to support the weight of two toms. You can actually see/feel the post tilt to the heavy side when the drum is mounted (the 12" in this case).

All you can really do is make sure your memory lock is down all the way, it adds a little support. Sliding the 12" a little away from the ball, not flush up against the ball/socket helps, you need to experiment.

I've mentioned b/f on the boards that if both toms were weight balanced (the 10 being as heavy as the 12) it would help alleviate the problem.

YAMAHA needs to look at a new mounting post/bracket design, there's just too much play with the TH945 and its receiver bracket when everything is mounted up.

Last edited by Les Ismore; 12-13-2011 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:24 AM
The Edge The Edge is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha yess mounting problem

Interesting stuff guys. an astute observation from Les.

Jims, I looked for a video on youtube. There are several Gatzen vids. Do you have a specific link?
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  #10  
Old 12-13-2011, 12:12 PM
audiotech
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Default Re: Yamaha yess mounting problem

My Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute drums are the lightest drums that I own. I believe the mounting system is more than substantial enough to efficiently hold and maintain the drums. If there was a problem, I think Yamaha would have addressed it earlier.

Dennis
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  #11  
Old 12-13-2011, 05:39 PM
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Default Re: Yamaha yess mounting problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
My Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute drums are the lightest drums that I own. I believe the mounting system is more than substantial enough to efficiently hold and maintain the drums. If there was a problem, I think Yamaha would have addressed it earlier.

Dennis

Its weight to holding power ratio, an issue with the TH945 design. No one said YAMAHA toms are generally heavy, its a matter of stability.

W/o your toms mounted crank down on the wing screw that secures the TH945 to the bass drum bracket (assuming you have bass drum mount, which is what we're talking about here), the TH945 is not solid in the receiver, its able to move side to side due to the insert that holds it.

Its slight, but slight movement is all that's needed. The heavier of the two mounted toms is going to pull it to one side. Even with the memory lock in place there's enough movement to have an effect.

The allowable play in the TH945's post connection will result in a choking effect on the heavier tom.
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  #12  
Old 12-13-2011, 08:42 PM
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Default Re: Yamaha yess mounting problem

here is the video

http://www.youtube.com/user/bobgatze...32/_C4Jnl9PYKQ

the actual part starts around the 5:45 mark but I would sugest everyone watching the bob gatzen "More Horsepower" videos. They contain a lot of useful information.

Also I would try what Les Is More said about the memory clamp.
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  #13  
Old 12-13-2011, 08:44 PM
The Edge The Edge is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha yess mounting problem

Les, your last response about the th945 makes a lot of sense. I will take a look at that. I'm putting new heads on the tom as we speak. I've felt all along it had something to do with the relationship between the bass and mounts. Hopefully, I can resolve the problem.

If worse comes to worse, I'll mount them from clamps on cymbal stands.
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  #14  
Old 12-13-2011, 08:46 PM
The Edge The Edge is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha yess mounting problem

Unfortunely, because I bought it used, the 3 hole receiver doesn't have a memory lock. Maybe I can take one off of one of the yess mounts.
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  #15  
Old 12-14-2011, 07:20 AM
audiotech
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Default Re: Yamaha yess mounting problem

Sorry, but even without using the memory locks the center tube, it is very secure, with absolutely no play in the bass drums mount and without having to really crank down on it. This would be the first thing I would notice setting up and tearing down the kit. The stability of the 10" and 12" rack toms is never an issue with my drums. The only stability issues I've seen on a set of Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute drums where when the two large toms, 14" and 16", where rack mounted and not on legs. I find those same instability issues on all large rack toms from any manufacturer.

I've had my Yamaha drums set-up and torn down three times in the last two weeks and until I too can hear, see or feel the problem, for me, there isn't a problem.

As you can see, I do use memory locks on this kit and every other kit I have that uses them. Memory locks not only promote faster set-ups, but also provide more rigidity on the locking systems. It was recommended to me to use memory locks on my DW drums "banana rail" even though I never really needed them for their intended purposes. If you're able to get them, they might help your situation.





Dennis
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  #16  
Old 12-15-2011, 11:02 PM
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Les Ismore Les Ismore is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha yess mounting problem

It has to do with he plastic sleeve in the TH945, once the wing screw is tightened the outside of the sleeve looses contact with the inside of the TH945, there's your play.

Its the same/same plastic set-up that YAMAHA uses in the bass drum mount receiver, a gap is created at the bass drum mount receiver and the whole TH945 is able to move ever so slightly enough to create a resonance imbalance due the to the heavier tom pulling to its side. It in effect 'floats' the lighter tom making it resonate more.

As an example, If say you had 10 and 13 mounted the effect would be more pronounced due to the weight differential.

First pic shows no gap as the wing screw is not tight, second pic show screwdriver inserted in the gap created when wing screw is tightened.


I can honestly say this effect isn't exclusive to YAMAHA and their mounting hardware, even with complete contact at the post/bass drum mount on some other designs, there's still a weight imbalance between most toms. What that does is put more weight on the kick drum's right side (assuming heavier tom is mounted on the right) , same effect is happening, the lighter tom side is essentially 'floated' and expresses the effect with an ability for more resonance.

Where we really need isolation rubber feet (like on FT's) is on bass drum spurs, or some king of damped (shock absorbing) bass drum spurs would greatly increase tom and bass drum resonance (who'll be first?).

Its not what's connected to the (tom) shell that affects resonance, its how the drums in the kit couple to the floor.

Resonance issues (the lack of) can be remedied at the bass drum spurs (when using bass drum mounted toms), this has already been proven with floor tom iso feet, its the exact same resonance phenomena gong on.
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Last edited by Les Ismore; 12-15-2011 at 11:28 PM.
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  #17  
Old 12-16-2011, 01:21 AM
The Edge The Edge is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha yess mounting problem

Les, I've changed the heads on the drum and it sounds fine. I've tried it mounted on the th945 and it sounds fine, too. What I haven't done is try it on the bass drum. my bass drum is in my band's trailer. I will test it tomorrow.

If this doesn't work, perhaps I'll buy clamps and mount from the cymbal stands? What do you think?
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  #18  
Old 12-18-2011, 12:28 PM
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Default Re: Yamaha yess mounting problem

I prefer mounting from the cymbal stands- looks cooler, provides better tom positioning and puts less stress on the bass drum. It also gives better sound isolation when recording (i.e. less tom ringing from hitting the kick)

I might end up getting rack eventually- even easier!
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:43 PM
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  #19  
Old 03-13-2012, 08:14 PM
The Edge The Edge is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha yess mounting problem

Update for you guys who replied a few months ago. At present, I am mounting my toms from clamps on cymbal stands. It is working great. As long as I have each tom mounted at the sweet spot on the short arm YESS mount, it works great.

I wasn't sure I would like the YESS system. But after using it....I love it! It's practical and low mass. The ball mount is so user friendly. I love being able to turn the drum over in about 3 seconds to tune the resonant head.

I'm loving my MCANs. I'm using coated ambassdors over clear Ambs now. I'm gonna try clear over clear in a few weeks.

Long story short....my 3 hole receiver is staying in the closet.
..
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: Yamaha yess mounting problem

I had the same problem with my RCs. I ended up mounting the 12" on a cymbal stand with the three hole and no other drums, only cymbals. Sounds great now.
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  #21  
Old 03-13-2012, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: Yamaha yess mounting problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Edge View Post
Unfortunely, because I bought it used, the 3 hole receiver doesn't have a memory lock. Maybe I can take one off of one of the yess mounts.
I have seen these new on eBay for about $9.
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