DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Gear > Heads and Sticks

Heads and Sticks Discuss Heads and Sticks

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 11-27-2011, 09:19 AM
Goreliscious's Avatar
Goreliscious Goreliscious is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 256
Default dead 13" Pinstripe

Hi, I have a 5 piece with 12", 13", 16" toms. The 12" and 16" are fine but I can't get anything out of the 13", it sounds like the drum is full of cotton wool. All 3 skins are new, though I did however buy the 13" after the 12" and 16" as they were originally on my old kit which was 12", 14", 16". I played on the 12" and 16" a bit, but not alot.

I know the 13" is properly seated so I'm guessing the reason for the massive difference is that the 12" and 16" had been played in a bit on my other kit?

At the same time I would have thought the 13" would have sounded better than the 12" and 16" as they'd been "contaminated" by my old kit. I'm kinda superstitious about swapping skins between kits incase the skins have taken to the tiny imperfections a bearing edge, so when you put them on a new bearing edge it doesn't feel like home to them.

Any thoughts? About the drums...not about me being crazy.
__________________
www.facebook.com/openwristexile
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-27-2011, 09:55 AM
harryconway's Avatar
harryconway harryconway is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Pasadena, California, U.S.A.
Posts: 9,168
Default Re: dead 13" Pinstripe

What brand/model drum kit do you have?
Are all your reso. heads the same type and age? And are they tuned?
__________________
This seat does not recline as per Federal Aviation Regulation 121.310 (f)(3)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-27-2011, 10:31 AM
uniin's Avatar
uniin uniin is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Blue Mountains, Australia
Posts: 1,216
Default Re: dead 13" Pinstripe

your resonant head might be a bit too old/worn out

also pinstripes are pretty dead heads.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-27-2011, 11:28 AM
Goreliscious's Avatar
Goreliscious Goreliscious is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 256
Default Re: dead 13" Pinstripe

Brand new clear Ambassador, same age gap as the Pinstripes, all tuned. Mapex Mars Pro in mint condition. The 12" and 16" sing, the 13" chokes.
__________________
www.facebook.com/openwristexile
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-27-2011, 12:41 PM
uniin's Avatar
uniin uniin is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Blue Mountains, Australia
Posts: 1,216
Default Re: dead 13" Pinstripe

does it sound good of the mount? like if you hold it just in your hands?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-27-2011, 12:59 PM
Goreliscious's Avatar
Goreliscious Goreliscious is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 256
Default Re: dead 13" Pinstripe

Which one, the Ambassador or Pinstripe? T.B.H I haven't check that with either. I'll try tuning the drum again in a bit and see if I can spot anything I hadn't noticed before.

All the problems I used to get with tuning were down to bad seating but nowadays I put particular care into that: finger tight, press down, back up to finger tight if any have loosened, one half turn on each lug, press down, another half turn on each lug then tune from there...
__________________
www.facebook.com/openwristexile
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-27-2011, 03:44 PM
harryconway's Avatar
harryconway harryconway is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Pasadena, California, U.S.A.
Posts: 9,168
Default Re: dead 13" Pinstripe

Could be a bad head. Happens, from time to time. Pinstripes are the most muffled head in the Remo line-up.
The other thing I'd try, is tuning the 13 by itself. Ignore the fact that you have a 12 and a 16. Put the heads on the 13 and tune it like it's the only drum in the world. Find it's sweet spot. I'm saying this because you may be trying to force the 13 to be between the 12 and the 16, and that's not where it needs/wants to be.
__________________
This seat does not recline as per Federal Aviation Regulation 121.310 (f)(3)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-27-2011, 04:56 PM
Mad About Drums's Avatar
Mad About Drums Mad About Drums is offline
Pollyanna's Agent
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shropshire, UK
Posts: 5,523
Default Re: dead 13" Pinstripe

Quote:
Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
Could be a bad head. Happens, from time to time. Pinstripes are the most muffled head in the Remo line-up.
The other thing I'd try, is tuning the 13 by itself. Ignore the fact that you have a 12 and a 16. Put the heads on the 13 and tune it like it's the only drum in the world. Find it's sweet spot. I'm saying this because you may be trying to force the 13 to be between the 12 and the 16, and that's not where it needs/wants to be.
Good one Harry, I was going to say somethind like that...

... if the result of tuning the 13" is up to your liking, you'll have to tune the 12" and 16" accordingly...
__________________
Keep On Drumming
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-27-2011, 05:03 PM
Goreliscious's Avatar
Goreliscious Goreliscious is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 256
Default Re: dead 13" Pinstripe

Yeah that's not a bad point.
__________________
www.facebook.com/openwristexile
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-27-2011, 05:57 PM
tard's Avatar
tard tard is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: springhill nova scotia canada
Posts: 1,327
Default Re: dead 13" Pinstripe

You say the 13 is new and properly seated, if you mean seated the old school way by giving a big push with the heal of your hand in the middle of the head you may have ruined it. I stopped "seating" heads that way many years ago after ruining 5 out of 9 heads when replacing all the heads on my kit. Aquarian cannot seem to stress enough about not doing it on their heads, Evans does not recommend doing it on their heads and from what I have been told Remo only suggests doing it on their vintage polyester heads. The new construction processes and mylar head materials make this old school tuning step obsolete and potentially damaging.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-27-2011, 10:07 PM
Drumolator Drumolator is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: central Louisiana
Posts: 1,943
Default Re: dead 13" Pinstripe

Bad Pinstripes are why I stopped using Remo heads. Peace and goodwill.
__________________
Mark Wellman

Gretsch Catalina toms and BD / Pacific SX Series (snare) / Sabian / Evans / Vater
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-28-2011, 12:20 AM
bermuda's Avatar
bermuda bermuda is offline
Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,754
Default Re: dead 13" Pinstripe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumolator View Post
Bad Pinstripes are why I stopped using Remo heads. Peace and goodwill.
Bingo, same here.

Remo's most popular 2-ply heads - Pinstripes and Emperors - have an inherent problem: they're 2 plies. The problem being, if one ply doesn't lay perfectly flat against the other when they're formed and glued into the hoop, they won't vibrate together. The looser of the 2 plies keeps the flat ply from vibrating and making a nice tone. This is a common problem with Pinstripes and Emperors.

The way to get around the problem - and BTW, Remo denies there is such a quality issue - is to try the heads at the store. Hold the head vertically by its hoop, next to your ear, and tap it lightly with your finger. Choose the ones that ring best, and they'll sound best on your drums. If it sounds dead to your ear, you can be reasonably sure it will be dead on the drum.

However, do I need to point out the irony of having to select good heads from bad? I got tired of that routine, switched to Evans over 10 years ago, and could not be happier. I have never, and I repeat NEVER got a bad head from Evans. If they are making a run of bad heads now and then, they obviously catch them before they leave the factory. Remo apparently doesn't exercise such quality control, and happily sends all heads to their distributors and dealers. When there's a problem, they'll gladly exchange them, but wouldn't life be easier for all if they just nab the bad heads up front?

You should exchange that 13" at the store you bought it, test the replacement head as I mentioned above, and I'll bet the 13" will come back to life.

Some of you might say "oh Bermuda just hates Remo heads." Well, now you know why.

Bermuda
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-28-2011, 12:51 AM
Typo's Avatar
Typo Typo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 194
Default Re: dead 13" Pinstripe

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
Bingo, same here.

Remo's most popular 2-ply heads - Pinstripes and Emperors - have an inherent problem: they're 2 plies. The problem being, if one ply doesn't lay perfectly flat against the other when they're formed and glued into the hoop, they won't vibrate together. The looser of the 2 plies keeps the flat ply from vibrating and making a nice tone. This is a common problem with Pinstripes and Emperors.

Bermuda
Thanks for this information. I think I might have this problem with my current Emperors. You say it's common, but do you have any rough estimation as to what percentage is like this? I'm also wondering if I should try Ambassadors over Ambassadors to see how I like that sound.
__________________
Tim
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-28-2011, 04:07 AM
bermuda's Avatar
bermuda bermuda is offline
Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,754
Default Re: dead 13" Pinstripe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Typo View Post
Thanks for this information. I think I might have this problem with my current Emperors. You say it's common, but do you have any rough estimation as to what percentage is like this? I'm also wondering if I should try Ambassadors over Ambassadors to see how I like that sound.
Funny you should ask. My experience has been that 25-33% of the 2-ply Remo heads had problems and would not tune well. This is based on buying heads off the shelf, not hand-picking them, and about half the time, having one of my 3 toms with a bad head. Once in a while two toms were bad, but about 50% of the time, they were all fine.

So I figure that 1 bad head out of 3 is a 33% failure, and half the time I dodged the bullet, and will assume that there's a 4th bad head out there somewhere that I narrowly missed getting (one out of 4 is where I get the 25% figure.)

But let's assume I'm way off. Let's say that only 10% of the heads are bad. Is that really acceptable? Is 5% any better? How's 2%? With Evans, I have a 0% failure rate. I like that figure best of all!

BTW, I was a Remo endorser for many years. I called them in 2000 and told them about the problems I'd been having. They completely denied there were quality control issues, yet were at a loss to explain why various sizes of their Pinstripes and Emperors were giving me problems. They invited me to send the bad heads back. I invited them to accept the termination of my 16-year endorsement.

Bermuda
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com