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  #81  
Old 02-25-2006, 11:48 PM
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Default Re: Video: Eloy Casagrande

Things like this make me wish I had started earlier.
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  #82  
Old 02-25-2006, 11:48 PM
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Default Re: Video: Eloy Casagrande

Buhuuu!!!`My playing is so crappy against this!!!! This guy is so incredible! When I saw the video, I was a little bit (much) unmotivated...congrats to this guy!!!

karl
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  #83  
Old 02-25-2006, 11:48 PM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aahznightsky
He didn't say HE was better (or any members of this forum), he said Weckl and Coluita were.

And I think most would stand by that.
I know he didn't say that, nobody has. That's not my point. Of course Weckel and Coluita are better, they are long time seasoned pro's. They were ripping up the stages before Afro's parents even met!

What get's me is people picking apart this 14 year old kid when I would bet my paycheck that they couldn't hold a candle to him.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but sometimes opinions are better kept to yourself if they are nothing but negative. Is it so hard to find something good in this guy’s playing?

Ahh, you know what I am talking about, you most often have good things to say about others.

BTW, when are we going to see YOU playing that ahhwsome set of yours?
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  #84  
Old 02-26-2006, 12:12 AM
UltimateDrummer55555 UltimateDrummer55555 is offline
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

This kid is very good. He has good chops and pretty fast feet for his age. I would battle this kid. I'm 14 also and I have faster chops that he does and faster feet definately. He reminds me of Virgil Donati some, but no matter I think I could beat him I can play that stuff he was playing but faster and just as cool. I play all kinds of music. His double bass is great for 14 too, but if you look at the video he's sliding his feet which allows the pedal to play 2 or even 3 strokes on one movement of the leg, like Virgil Donati. His timing is kind of weird or off. If he's gonna play offbeats at least make them sound like they should be there. I play like dennis chambers, Jason Bittner, Geroge Kollias, Steve Gadd, and a few others. I think I could take him or blow him away. If he looked a little more relaxed and had better grooves he would impress me more.
I will post a video but I don't know when. So i will show you then that I could beat him or blow him away.
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  #85  
Old 02-26-2006, 12:22 AM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateDrummer55555
I think I could take him or blow him away. If he looked a little more relaxed and had better grooves he would impress me more.
I will post a video but I don't know when. So i will show you then that I could beat him or blow him away.
Wonderful, I can't wait. I will be watching anxiously for your video!
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  #86  
Old 02-26-2006, 12:26 AM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateDrummer55555
I will post a video but I don't know when. So i will show you then that I could beat him or blow him away.
Worthless statement without the video. If your soooo much better than this kid why arent you on the MD video?
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  #87  
Old 02-26-2006, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpekarek

What get's me is people picking apart this 14 year old kid when I would bet my paycheck that they couldn't hold a candle to him.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but sometimes opinions are better kept to yourself if they are nothing but negative. Is it so hard to find something good in this guy’s playing?

Ahh, you know what I am talking about, you most often have good things to say about others.

BTW, when are we going to see YOU playing that ahhwsome set of yours?
yeah man i didnt mean to cause any dispute. hehe glad you didnt start one with me lol

I mean sure I agree with the not-alot-of-musicality statements, but I don't think it was the least musical drumming I've ever heard. Far from it! I can think of a number of professional drummers with less style and feeling. I mean the kid was into what he was playing!

but anyways. about me playing. You might see me around. hehe. Not gonna say anymore.
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  #88  
Old 02-26-2006, 12:47 AM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateDrummer55555
This kid is very good. He has good chops and pretty fast feet for his age. I would battle this kid. I'm 14 also and I have faster chops that he does and faster feet definately. He reminds me of Virgil Donati some, but no matter I think I could beat him I can play that stuff he was playing but faster and just as cool. I play all kinds of music. His double bass is great for 14 too, but if you look at the video he's sliding his feet which allows the pedal to play 2 or even 3 strokes on one movement of the leg, like Virgil Donati. His timing is kind of weird or off. If he's gonna play offbeats at least make them sound like they should be there. I play like dennis chambers, Jason Bittner, Geroge Kollias, Steve Gadd, and a few others. I think I could take him or blow him away. If he looked a little more relaxed and had better grooves he would impress me more.
I will post a video but I don't know when. So i will show you then that I could beat him or blow him away.
Yes hurry up - your site on Drummerworld Frontpage is already reserved.

So you play in your mind like Dennis Chambers - just faster I suppose. And you managed also to integrate those slow outdated Steve Gadd Licks also - spiced up with some Virgil odd meters - sounds really interesting.

And everything so relaxed - yes I agree, drumming needed finally reach the definitive level.

So just the real Video is missing. But don't worry, Rob Wallis and Paul Siegel from Hudson Music are on the way. Just have to finish the shooting of the new Thomas Lang DVD. Where do you live? Is there a airport? - we're coming by private Jet and camera team for the News.

Bernhard
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  #89  
Old 02-26-2006, 01:19 AM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateDrummer55555
This kid is very good. He has good chops and pretty fast feet for his age. I would battle this kid. I'm 14 also and I have faster chops that he does and faster feet definately. He reminds me of Virgil Donati some, but no matter I think I could beat him I can play that stuff he was playing but faster and just as cool. I play all kinds of music. His double bass is great for 14 too, but if you look at the video he's sliding his feet which allows the pedal to play 2 or even 3 strokes on one movement of the leg, like Virgil Donati. His timing is kind of weird or off. If he's gonna play offbeats at least make them sound like they should be there. I play like dennis chambers, Jason Bittner, Geroge Kollias, Steve Gadd, and a few others. I think I could take him or blow him away. If he looked a little more relaxed and had better grooves he would impress me more.
I will post a video but I don't know when. So i will show you then that I could beat him or blow him away.

WOW, c'mon little man give yourself some credit.. Oh wait I see you did already. I dont know whats more frightening,

A) You only think your that good, or

B) you actually are that good and very arrogant about it.
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  #90  
Old 02-26-2006, 02:59 AM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernhard
Yes hurry up - your site on Drummerworld Frontpage is already reserved.

So you play in your mind like Dennis Chambers - just faster I suppose. And you managed also to integrate those slow outdated Steve Gadd Licks also - spiced up with some Virgil odd meters - sounds really interesting.

And everything so relaxed - yes I agree, drumming needed finally reach the definitive level.

So just the real Video is missing. But don't worry, Rob Wallis and Paul Siegel from Hudson Music are on the way. Just have to finish the shooting of the new Thomas Lang DVD. Where do you live? Is there a airport? - we're coming by private Jet and camera team for the News.

Bernhard
Hudson music are on the way, LOL!!!!

Its a shame that all of these 14 year old prodigys seem to lack the things that can make the greats so great. . . . Musical maturity and respect for the art. When would you ever hear Thomas Lang watch another player and say "haha, ive got much better chops than him", or Dennis Chambers saying "Id blow that guy away in a drum off". Never!

But damn, I sure hope this kid doesn't come back with a mind blowing video! If he does I cant wait to see which way this topic goes!
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  #91  
Old 02-26-2006, 03:01 AM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

Does not hurt when one of your BIG influences is Virgil Donati(as is stated in his biography). This kid has the same fire that Virg and others have. He has the passion to continue to push himself to a higher level and carve out new territory. Good for him. He really has his own thing going on which is amazing for being so young. I cannot wait to see him in about 5 or 6 years. SCARY!!!
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  #92  
Old 02-26-2006, 03:38 AM
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Default Re: Video: Eloy Casagrande

Fantastic player, ive been playin guitar since 11, but wish id started drums at that age now :-(

Is it just my poor Spanish, or would his name translate to Eloy Big House? LOL
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  #93  
Old 02-26-2006, 04:42 AM
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Default Re: Video: Eloy Casagrande

im also 14... i would love to have a drum battle with him.
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  #94  
Old 02-26-2006, 04:46 AM
UltimateDrummer55555 UltimateDrummer55555 is offline
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

I apologize for my statement earlier about criticizing this kid and saying that I could beat him in a drum battle. Those things are made to keep within yourself, but none the less the kid is very talented yes he is. He is better than Mike D'angelo at 14 IMO. He has good styles, but weird timing even though it was pretty good. Like i said before, he would impress me more if he was more relaxed or made it look a little more effortless.
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  #95  
Old 02-26-2006, 05:09 AM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

so does that mean you aren't going to post your insane video of you outdrumming this kid?
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  #96  
Old 02-26-2006, 05:17 AM
UltimateDrummer55555 UltimateDrummer55555 is offline
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by radiofriendlyunitshifter
so does that mean you aren't going to post your insane video of you outdrumming this kid?
No I will post my video, but I got a little out of hand, drummers shouldn't really criticize other drummers.
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  #97  
Old 02-26-2006, 05:27 AM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

wow, this kid has really nice technique.

But if you wanna see some crazy drumming, from kids.

check out tony royster

HE IS AMAZING

one thing is hes alot of older now....but check out some of his vids when he was young
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  #98  
Old 02-26-2006, 05:34 AM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateDrummer55555
No I will post my video, but I got a little out of hand, drummers shouldn't really criticize other drummers.
can't wait. and criticism isn't a bad thing if it's constructive.
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  #99  
Old 02-26-2006, 05:55 AM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateDrummer55555
This kid is very good. He has good chops and pretty fast feet for his age. I would battle this kid. I'm 14 also and I have faster chops that he does and faster feet definately. He reminds me of Virgil Donati some, but no matter I think I could beat him I can play that stuff he was playing but faster and just as cool. I play all kinds of music. His double bass is great for 14 too, but if you look at the video he's sliding his feet which allows the pedal to play 2 or even 3 strokes on one movement of the leg, like Virgil Donati. His timing is kind of weird or off. If he's gonna play offbeats at least make them sound like they should be there. I play like dennis chambers, Jason Bittner, Geroge Kollias, Steve Gadd, and a few others. I think I could take him or blow him away. If he looked a little more relaxed and had better grooves he would impress me more.
I will post a video but I don't know when. So i will show you then that I could beat him or blow him away.
Hahahaha, I REALLYwand to see your video now!

God bro, youre allowed to take pride in yourself, but I doubt that you can blow this kid away and that you play like all those people at 14 unless youre God himself. And he wouldnt be cocky.
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  #100  
Old 02-26-2006, 11:56 PM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateDrummer55555
This kid is very good. He has good chops and pretty fast feet for his age. I would battle this kid. I'm 14 also and I have faster chops that he does and faster feet definately. He reminds me of Virgil Donati some, but no matter I think I could beat him I can play that stuff he was playing but faster and just as cool. I play all kinds of music. His double bass is great for 14 too, but if you look at the video he's sliding his feet which allows the pedal to play 2 or even 3 strokes on one movement of the leg, like Virgil Donati. His timing is kind of weird or off. If he's gonna play offbeats at least make them sound like they should be there. I play like dennis chambers, Jason Bittner, Geroge Kollias, Steve Gadd, and a few others. I think I could take him or blow him away. If he looked a little more relaxed and had better grooves he would impress me more.
I will post a video but I don't know when. So i will show you then that I could beat him or blow him away.
Way to stay modest. I wanna drum battle this kid. I might be able to i might not... im not sure. But really. If i cud beat him i wud not be saying "i wud blow this kid away... he sucks" dude once again. stay modest. nobody likes a drummer who is full of himself.
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  #101  
Old 02-27-2006, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

Anyone saying they need to "drum battle this kid" to "school" him or "/pwn" him or whatever need a reality check because in all probabillity you don't have half the abillity that he has, and even if you do, there's a catch 22. Peter Erskine doesn't go around and tell Vinnie Colautia he wants to battle him. Why? Because this sort of competition is terrible for musical purposes.
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  #102  
Old 02-27-2006, 01:09 AM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

I'm a n00b drummer - but an old hat at music... and I thought this kid had musicality in may parts... not everywhere (which is what I think people may have picked up) but he did have a lot of Brazilian/latin/afro rythms mixed in - I mean, it is a solo after all and he is showing what he is working on at the moment. Pretty amazing even if I was just listening to the audio and forget that he is 14... and just mind-blowing if you take his age into account. Good job Mr. Casagrande! /hat

I would like to see him just having fun and grooving - I'm sure we would all enjoy that (and he would too) so I hope he'll make more videos in the future.

Now I'll go find something creative to build with the sticks I have... or not - you know, I enjoy my beginner 4/4 rock pattern with mistakes and all :)
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  #103  
Old 02-27-2006, 02:00 AM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theduke86
Anyone saying they need to "drum battle this kid" to "school" him or "/pwn" him or whatever need a reality check because in all probabillity you don't have half the abillity that he has, and even if you do, there's a catch 22. Peter Erskine doesn't go around and tell Vinnie Colautia he wants to battle him. Why? Because this sort of competition is terrible for musical purposes.
Seriously. Who cares whose better (even though its probably him)?

This one kid wanted to "battle" me for a couple of months, and when his band was playing at school, he saw me in the crowd and got this determined look on his face and started playing all of this teechnical stuff, even though it sounded horrible with the music that was playing (it was the Pokemon theme song, and he was overplaying THAT.) It was really ridiculous.
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  #104  
Old 02-27-2006, 02:13 AM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

AMAZING!!! i dont get the mini phil collins comment on the youtube page though.......
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  #105  
Old 02-27-2006, 04:02 AM
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Default Re: Video: Eloy Casagrande

I'm 14 too.
I started 2 years ago.
He'd basicly Dominate me, well, I stand a chance against him. But a slim one in a drum duel.
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  #106  
Old 02-27-2006, 04:40 AM
LiquidSoul546 LiquidSoul546 is offline
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Default Re: Video: Eloy Casagrande

What's this crap about "drum duels"? Why can't someone just give respect where respect is due, I swear ever since this video has poped up on this site, I've heard talk about a duel like 4 times with this kid. This kid is a prodigy no questions ask. I can't wiat to hear more about him.
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  #107  
Old 02-27-2006, 08:25 AM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

i think we can all learn something from ultimate drummer...not drumming mind you, but humility. drumming is not a contest but an art. what one guy does with four on the floor is as valid as YYZ. there is no ranking system for drumming's truest qualities. it does pay to be slightly arrogant, slightly humble...it does pay to be confident but also to underplay your level of skill. rather leave the watchers saying, 'wow, he's better than he said he was' than 'that arrogant jerk is hardly as good as he thinks'.

but then remember how we all were when we were 14. i only started drumming at 14 and after a year i though i was ready to take on anybody. i'm 30 now and i'm just happy to be a lot better this month than i was last month.

j

next time put the video on the same post as the brag ultimate drummer. if you are even half as good as eloy then i will publically apologise to you and formerly request that bernhard sets up a drummerworld page for you.
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  #108  
Old 02-27-2006, 08:31 AM
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Default Re: Video: Eloy Casagrande

yes it makes me sick. no chance, no contest... a drummer for two years has no chance even beginning to show up eloy except on a lousy keyboard. eloy is a kid but he has put serious hours and years into his skill.

j
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  #109  
Old 02-27-2006, 08:41 AM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

WOW! I really enjoyed his playing. Great to see a young gifted talent like Eloy.
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  #110  
Old 02-27-2006, 09:00 AM
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Default Re: Video: Eloy Casagrande

I'm 36, been playing for 22 years or so and a drum battle is the last thing I'd want. I'd sit down with this kid and pick his brain for about 6 hours though. I'd have him show me every riff lick and technique he knows. I don't the musicality training, as I "might" have that edge on him.
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  #111  
Old 02-27-2006, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

This thread encapsulates the best and worst of all drummer chats! There is intelligent comment and respectful criticism on the one hand and inexplicable arrogance and bravado (jealousy??) on the other. Opinions vary - and that is good - but surely there are some ultimate truths with which we can agree.

Lets just set aside that Eloy is 14 for a second. He is performing at the Modern Drummer Festival and has five minutes to alert the drumming world to his talent. Of course he is going to focus on his chops and his speed. If he had played Chad Smith's incredible groove (performed as his "solo" at the festival) he would not have shown his unknown potential. His technique is impressive and his speed is outstanding. His ability to take fundamentally different feels and piece them together in one performance is musical. Then lets add back into the mix that he is FOURTEEN!

We are musicians. We are sidemen/women. We should be proud of it. Lets celebrate a new talent and respect his gift and don't complain until he gets a gig that used to be yours. In the meantime kudos to Nutha and the Duke (and some others) for the intelligent posts.

Paul
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  #112  
Old 02-27-2006, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

Are you throwing down the e-gauntlets? Ready for some mano y mano? Yes, I watched the video. Three times actually. It's very good. I do not feel anyone is bashing him. Are we commenting on his playing? Sure. It's what we do regarding videos. Don't post videos expecting sunshine blown up your butt. As for me posting a video - please. I have nothing to prove.

That being said, is he faster than me? Absolutely. Can you play double bass better than me? Yes. Can he take a better solo than me? You bet. I'm assuming he can read music at this stage so it's a draw. Eloy 3 - mlehnertz 0.

Does this make him a better drummer than me? No.

Can he kick an 18 piece big band? Can he use brushes? Can he play a shuffle? Can he pull off playing an R&B gig? Could he play a gig for the circus/theater? Would someone call him to play a GB gig at with four hours notice? Has he even played a gig? I won't even mention mallets, timpani or any or any other percussion instrument.

Now let's fix your statements a little. "That kid has more RAW talent", but not more skills. It IS your opinion and NOT a fact. I think we've all given him credit but he's not certainly Vinnie or Weckl or anything close. Does this mean he won't be someone we're talking about 10 years from now? Maybe, but let's hold off the comparisons to the "greats" for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpekarek
Did you actually watch the video? That kid has more skill and talent than ANY of the home made videos on this site. That's not my "opinion", that's a fact. Nobody here can bash that kid.

That seems to be all I hear anymore is "musicality". That means entirely different things to different people. I hear a lot of "musicallity" in his playing. Polyrhythms aren't the end of the earth either. Some people are into them and some are not, it doesn't mean that one is better than the other.

Let's give some credit where credit is due. Let's not sit back and judge people who are out in the world giving it all they have and doing what we wish we could be doing.

Are you better than this kid?...Post a video.
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  #113  
Old 02-27-2006, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

i half agree with the statement above. although he has fantastic skills at double bass, quick hands and excellent coordination and technique, i think what mlehnertz was vaugley trying to put across was if the guy had "the feel" for drumming.

i completly understand about how the kid is filled with "raw" talent, and he may well be (or have as much skill as) the next lang or weckl to come...and thats fine for a solo drummer, or if your ambition is to win the WFD...

but what im trying to say is that although drumming and music completly connected, they can be completly the opposite also...if you want to go far in the recording buisness or be a succesful musician in a band, its all about the feel and imagination of how things could sound e.g.

im sure pure fast drum solos would not impress the pop/rock scene today in a song on every track.

hence this, the lad has time to come, and could turn out to be a star within the years...
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  #114  
Old 02-27-2006, 07:53 PM
T-1000 T-1000 is offline
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Default Re: Video: Eloy Casagrande

Yeah...Eloy is phenominal!! Just possibly he might have the edge over me in a drum duel...just possibly...maybe...

Yeah, he'd cane me.

Does anyone know what ride he's using; it sounded great. I think it looks like a Paiste New Signature Dark Energy Mark 1, can anyone (probably 'Aahznightsky' especially) confirm this? What size do you reckon it is?
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  #115  
Old 02-27-2006, 09:32 PM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

As with everyone else I was amazed at the kids technique for being only 14 and yes his development is headed in the right direction obviously.

But I did get bored after about 5 minutes of the same thing. When I watch a solo I like to hear and see someone groove and be very musical. Watching someone do incredible double bass or fast singles over and over gets redundant and uninteresting. I would still rather see someone play in the pocket all night and show his skill in certain spots when it comes time. Drum solos over 10 minutes showing just your technical side and not your musical just don't interest me anymore, I must be getting old even if I am only 36...LOL

Check out Keith Carlock's solo and Benny Greb's grooves in their solos those are sweet!
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  #116  
Old 02-27-2006, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

Haha, people are getting a little opinionated on little Eloy, are they not.

I'd say he is great for his age. However, he's not the 2nd coming; when you break it down (apart from that cool latin bit in the middle), it's fast singles with the hands intespersed with a bit of double bass. Mike Portnoy does this a lot, and still gets bashed for it by a lot of people here.

If we're being really nitpicky, we could say his timing was a little out on the double bass in the 'bass/snare call and response' section, and he (accidentally?) hit the rim/other stick about twice. But these tiny failings detract nothing from the overall picture. He is fast, played an entertaining solo and has good co-ordination; yes, this is very special for a 14 year old, but not 'godly', for example, in my school, there is a jazz drummer 2 years younger than this guy who is fast approaching this skill level, but I dunno if playing in a competition like this will interest him.
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  #117  
Old 02-27-2006, 11:30 PM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

For me, this kid is amazing chops-wise. I'm no where near him. What I really want to see is to put him in a jazz or funk band and see how he does. Now, I'm not saying he won't be abe to do it, but I'm really curious if he could.

Also, people have been talking about "musicality" so I'll toss in my two cents. Eloy's foot clave was cool. To me it was musical, but not difficult once you learn it, but still cool nontheless. His Latin rythems were awesome as well. I thought I heard some songo in there.

My only gripe is that there was no space, no texture to his playing. Every note was the same it seemed and it was static to me.

I would love to have a drum battle with him. I would love to put him on a four piece with a hihat, ride and one crash, a single chain single bass pedal, with one cowbell.

I would rather watch Weckl than Eloy.

Ok, before you all hate me; Eloy's chops were amazing and so was his coordination. He'll do great in his life. But for me, I'm a groove guy through and through. Feeling the groove over getting pounded in the ears for 5 minutes.
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  #118  
Old 02-27-2006, 11:45 PM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cymbals~FEAR~me
I would love to have a drum battle with him. I would love to put him on a four piece with a hihat, ride and one crash, a single chain single bass pedal, with one cowbell.
Oh, good grief!! Maybe Eloy should employ a bodyguard with all these "phenomenal"
adversaries after his young tail.
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  #119  
Old 02-27-2006, 11:54 PM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

Now wait a sec. Now I'm not saying I'm not "phenomenal" , nor do my chops rack up against Eloy's. all I want to do is sit down with this kid and just jam, not a competition, just two drummers jamming, trading licks, and feeling good. Damn, that'd be sweet.
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  #120  
Old 02-28-2006, 12:14 AM
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Default Re: 14 year old drummer who made me weep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cymbals~FEAR~me
Now wait a sec. Now I'm not saying I'm not "phenomenal" , nor do my chops rack up against Eloy's. all I want to do is sit down with this kid and just jam, not a competition, just two drummers jamming, trading licks, and feeling good. Damn, that'd be sweet.
Ok. But a "drum battle" (a term I am increasingly growing to loath) implies a competition. And if you're "not saying I'm not phenomenal" you're saying that
you are. Maybe you are indeed (but I think you meant the opposite -Hehe). And as for that left foot clave being "not too difficult once you learn it" - I sure hope that's the case, but I doubt I'll ever master it at this late hour.
Keep on groovin'!
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Last edited by Loge; 02-28-2006 at 12:33 AM.
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