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  #1  
Old 10-18-2011, 01:13 PM
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Default The birth of heavy metal

Who do you think first captured the spirit of heavy metal?

The Kinks? (1964) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2GmzyeeXnQ

Cream? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_PsdnbgdjM

Jimi? (1967) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HObqZh_RTds

Blue Cheer? (1968) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU5uDozoSSM

Sabbath? (1970) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akt3awj_Ah8
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:34 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

I would have to say out of those choices Black Sabbath gets my vote.
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:36 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

Sabbath. I wish most of them still sounded like that. Sabbath had some great singers.
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:42 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

Sabbath - and metal is the silliest genre of music ever created.
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

You may laugh, but I still think the Rolling Stones started it all, the dirty boy looks, not so sweet lyrics or not just silly love songs, breaking the rules, including satanic stuff in lyrics (Sympathy for devil .....way before sabbath did it ), notorious life styles..drugs....women... etc.. etc......... all with a simple elegant no show off.. no flashy chops drummer!........so amazing to me..... still rocking after 49 years!!

at least they paved the foundation stone.

From the list- Sabbath.
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:02 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

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Sabbath - and metal is the silliest genre of music ever created.
Then call me silly. But you're right in that 80-90% of metal is rubbish (that's what my ears are telling me) - as with every genre, the challenge is finding the nuggets. (Although there are genres in which I even don't bother to search...)

Take a listen to Symphony X and you'll see there's quite some parallels to metal and classical music.
E.g. this one - "The Odyssey" (consisting of several parts - here's the full version / 24:08 min):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaN3pwBsRf8
Listen to this song _in full_ and dare tell me metal is 'the silliest genre...' - You won't!

---

Back to topic: Sabbath, without listening to the other bands.
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:06 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

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You may laugh, but I still think the Rolling Stones started it all, the dirty boy looks, not so sweet lyrics or not just silly love songs, breaking the rules, including satanic stuff in lyrics (Sympathy for devil .....way before sabbath did it ), notorious life styles..drugs....women... etc.. etc......... all with a simple elegant no show off.. no flashy chops drummer!........so amazing to me..... still rocking after 49 years!!

at least they paved the foundation stone.

From the list- Sabbath.
Yes I am laughing. :)

Last edited by sticks4drums; 10-18-2011 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:18 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

Difficult to say. Would go with Black Sabbath. To me, all music's gotta have some semblance of melody in there somewhere.. Though Steppenwolf uttered "heavy metal thunder". Rolling Stones were closer to Glam than Metal.
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

Ultimately, probably Sabbath, Pol. But there's little doubt they in turn were influenced by the heavier elements of the Amimals, Hendrix, Cream, Steppenwolf.......plus a host of others.

I have an interview with Chas Chandler here somewhere where he says the first time he heard the term "heavy metal" used was in reference to Jimi's guitar playing. Whilst it's not "metal" as we know it now, obviously there were sounds there that were later advanced, developed and built upon. Zepp had early metal elements there, as did Purple....but I'd probably hand it to Sabbath as the band that created something more identifiable to what we know today.

The more difficult question to pinpoint is probably not where has metal come from.....but where the hell is it headed? It's fracturing itself into so many bloody sub genres, soon there'll be nothing left. ;-)

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You may laugh, but I still think the Rolling Stones started it all,
They were the counter to the supposed niceties of the Beatles. In that way they certainly started an attitude that has been copied by rock (including punk and metal) bands for decades. You've only gotta have a look around to see..........bands are still trying to copy that swagger of the Stones to this very day.....they may not know it, but that's what they're doing.

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Yes I am laughing. Just like every time I see them play. Yuck!
It's official. You have NO taste!

I don't know anyone who doesn't like the Stones...........I don't wanna know anyone who doesn't like the Stones. :-)
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

Absolutely, without question, Black Sabbath.

& DMC, although I dislike most metal stuff, & especially that produced in the last 30 years, there was some great genre formation material with much to offer. I characterise the stuff I find of value to be "pre double bass pedal"! Listen to some of Simon Phillips's early stuff (he was 16) with Judas Priest.
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:02 PM
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Ultimately, probably Sabbath, Pol. But there's little doubt they in turn were influenced by the heavier elements of the Amimals, Hendrix, Cream, Steppenwolf.......plus a host of others.

I have an interview with Chas Chandler here somewhere where he says the first time he heard the term "heavy metal" used was in reference to Jimi's guitar playing. Whilst it's not "metal" as we know it now, obviously there were sounds there that were later advanced, developed and built upon. Zepp had early metal elements there, as did Purple....but I'd probably hand it to Sabbath as the band that created something more identifiable to what we know today.

The more difficult question to pinpoint is probably not where has metal come from.....but where the hell is it headed? It's fracturing itself into so many bloody sub genres, soon there'll be nothing left. ;-)



They were the counter to the supposed niceties of the Beatles. In that way they certainly started an attitude that has been copied by rock (including punk and metal) bands for decades. You've only gotta have a look around to see..........bands are still trying to copy that swagger of the Stones to this very day.....they may not know it, but that's what they're doing.



It's official. You have NO taste!

I don't know anyone who doesn't like the Stones...........I don't wanna know anyone who doesn't like the Stones. :-)
Sorry never been a crowd follower. Listen with my ears not my eyes. :)
Oh, and I have met many people that don't like the stones. We probably hang with a different crowd. Mine are usually sober. :P
The only person I see emulating Mick is Johnny Depp as Jack Sparrow. The guy we all laugh at. :)
What you call swagger, I call stagger! OUCH! :)
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:08 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

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Mine are usually sober.
I don't know anyone who's sober either.
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:11 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

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I don't know anyone who's sober either.
I like you no matter who you listen to. :)
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:11 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

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I don't know anyone who's sober either.
You got that right Pocket, I was totally caned every night this weekend. Look at the state of me in my photo thread for evidence of damage :)
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:12 PM
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You got that right Pocket, I was totally caned every night this weekend. Look at the state of me in my photo thread for evidence of damage :)
Wow! You guys are really cool!
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:14 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

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Wow! You guys are really cool!
Go tell it to the Quakers on the Temperance Movement forum.

This is rock 'n roll, baby!! :-)
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:24 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

Sabbath was the first taste of true darkness
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:44 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

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The only person I see emulating Mick is Johnny Depp as Jack Sparrow. The guy we all laugh at. :)
What you call swagger, I call stagger! OUCH! :)
He's actually impersonating Keith Richards. As much as I despise those films (they are terrible) Keith Richard's appearance in the third one did raise a chuckle.

The Stones are local boys. Keith and Mick are from a town a couple of miles down the road.
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Old 10-18-2011, 05:10 PM
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He's actually impersonating Keith Richards. As much as I despise those films (they are terrible) Keith Richard's appearance in the third one did raise a chuckle.

The Stones are local boys. Keith and Mick are from a town a couple of miles down the road.
Darn! You are right! Ooops. How do you do an embarrassed face on here.
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Old 10-18-2011, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

You guys are just jealous because I am going to see Gavin Harrison on Monday night at a drum clinic. Can't wait! :)
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Old 10-18-2011, 05:18 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

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Take a listen to Symphony X and you'll see there's quite some parallels to metal and classical music.
E.g. this one - "The Odyssey" (consisting of several parts - here's the full version / 24:08 min):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaN3pwBsRf8
Listen to this song _in full_ and dare tell me metal is 'the silliest genre...' - You won't!

symphony x is way underrated.. ..

rhapsody of fire also has many classical parallels
and so does haggard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NbN_UKf6gA


metal has many different sounds and everyone is quick to judge metal ...



who first started the spirit of heavy metal? beethoven, wagner, mussorgsky, holst, and stravinsky night on bald mountain has just as much darkness and aggression as a slayer song
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Old 10-18-2011, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

I see Steppenwolf as the precursor to bands like Judas Priest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gN6L...eature=related
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Old 10-18-2011, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

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symphony x is way underrated..
Oh yeah, IMO they deserve more appreciation than Dream Theater.

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metal has many different sounds and everyone is quick to judge metal ...

who first started the spirit of heavy metal? beethoven, wagner, mussorgsky, holst, and stravinsky night on bald mountain has just as much darkness and aggression as a slayer song
+1 !!!!
"Night on Bald Mountain" is a remarkably good example. Now imagine those composers had the technical means to produce other sounds than on the classical instruments we know - do you really think they'd skip the opportunity to translate dark emotions into intense sounds? Wake up - different technology produces different results. Times have changed, now we have more possibilities. When Hendrix let his Marshall amps roar beyond what they were designed for the soundtech was apologizing for the overdriven sound... Now it's standard in different genres. And accepted in fusion, jazz... JAZZ!!!! That's the genre some purists claim to be 'more intelligent/better' than other genres... How elitist.

To me the soundtrack to "Pirates of the Caribbean" (except for the softer/'nice' parts) pretty much resembles heavy metal in terms of sheer power, disharmonic intervals, intensity etc. Feeling wise it's the same to me, but no overdriven amps/electric guitars used.
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Old 10-18-2011, 05:58 PM
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Out of the provided list of bands there,I'd have to say for me at least its dead even between Sabath and Blue Cheer.When I first heard Ozzie he scared the crap out of me"please god help me..no"There are other band that should get honorable mention,like the Amboyd Dukes(Journey to the Center of the Mind),but thats another discussion.

And Jules...Let it Bleed is on my "what if you were stranded on a desert island and could only have 10 albums list.I too agree with others who have said Gimme Shelter is one of the best song ever written.

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Old 10-18-2011, 06:35 PM
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You guys are just jealous because I am going to see Gavin Harrison on Monday night at a drum clinic. Can't wait! :)
Seeing Gavin doing his clinic stuff is something to get really excited about, he's a superb player, but jealous, nah, he's sat on my kit this weekend!

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Old 10-18-2011, 06:40 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

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Originally Posted by Pachikara-Tharakan View Post
You may laugh, but I still think the Rolling Stones started it all, the dirty boy looks, not so sweet lyrics or not just silly love songs, breaking the rules, including satanic stuff in lyrics (Sympathy for devil .....way before sabbath did it ), notorious life styles..drugs....women... etc.. etc......... all with a simple elegant no show off.. no flashy chops drummer!........so amazing to me..... still rocking after 49 years!!

at least they paved the foundation stone.

From the list- Sabbath.
If you substitute Rolling Stones w/ Elvis in the above paragraph, it works. So I think Elvis wins the "paving stone" award, or more aptly "the guy who stole rock and roll from the black community first" award.

As for Metal, I'm thinking Black Sabbath. Genuinely angry guys from a poor neighborhood, pounding out their angst. BS is now just a circus act of course, like the rest of metal.
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Old 10-18-2011, 06:54 PM
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Geez, sticks, I coulda swore Neil Peart was WASTED at the end of your favorite little movie. I know, what a loser he is. But he's never been the poster boy for sobriety, has he? Alex either, for that matter (I recall some little incident down in Florida a few years back...).

I read an Ozzy interview years ago about Sabbath (who gets my vote, by the way) where he was describing that they were trying to infuse the scary horror flick element into rock (in a way that only Ozzy could manage!). Seems to me they succeeded on that one and metal as we know it was born.
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Old 10-18-2011, 06:59 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

It slowly evolved, for sure. One could even look to classical composers and fast-picking bluegrass players as super influential on the more shred-based stuff :-D

However!
Sabbath are the godfathers of what are, in my opinion, the finest branches of metal...

Sludge, stoner, doom, etc.
Got the groove, the hopelessness, the heavy.

Metal's been doomed since the get-go by people lumping bands like SunnO))) and Motley Crue into something that's even remotely similar.
Some poster mentioned how Metal is the silliest genre... It's tough as a fan of the music to have to deal with people like that who have been brainwashed by mainstream media :(
Metal's always had that to deal with them... truly an underdog genre.
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:10 PM
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You guys are just jealous because I am going to see Gavin Harrison on Monday night at a drum clinic. Can't wait! :)
I'm gonna go see Priest this Friday! Scott Travis is a real beast behind that kit.

Pol, I've heard Deep Purple and Zep were proto-heavy metal but for the first occurrence of legitimate dyed-in-the wool metal I go for Sabbath.

I have been fortunate enough to see Ozzy several times and the rest of Sabbath with the late, great Ronnie James Dio. Defiantly a cross off the bucket list.
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:10 PM
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

It all began with Sabbath: Paranoid - War Pigs - Iron Man - Supernaut...

But the other bands such as The Kinks, The Who, Cream, Jimi Hendrix and Blue Cheer were contributing factors to the birth...
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:11 PM
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Some poster mentioned how Metal is the silliest genre...
That was DMC, I think he was trying to be ironic or something...
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:23 PM
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It all began with Sabbath: Paranoid - War Pigs - Iron Man - Supernaut...

But the other bands such as The Kinks, The Who, Cream, Jimi Hendrix and Blue Cheer were contributing factors to the birth...
To this day,if you want to insult Ginger Baker,tell him you consider him a rock/heavy metal drummer.He still says he thinks Cream were a jazz band,and he considers himself a jazz drummer only.
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:50 PM
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To this day,if you want to insult Ginger Baker,tell him you consider him a rock/heavy metal drummer.He still says he thinks Cream were a jazz band,and he considers himself a jazz drummer only.
Or simply remind him that Bonham was wayyy more influential that he was!

Maybe it's just my ears, but I don't hear an ounce of metal in Led Zeppelin, who were fundamentally a blues band. To me, metal (classical) and blues are oil and water. Are these two mutually exclusive in anyone else's mind?
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:57 PM
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Oh yeah, IMO they deserve more appreciation than Dream Theater.


+1 !!!!
"Night on Bald Mountain" is a remarkably good example. Now imagine those composers had the technical means to produce other sounds than on the classical instruments we know - do you really think they'd skip the opportunity to translate dark emotions into intense sounds? Wake up - different technology produces different results. Times have changed, now we have more possibilities. When Hendrix let his Marshall amps roar beyond what they were designed for the soundtech was apologizing for the overdriven sound... Now it's standard in different genres. And accepted in fusion, jazz... JAZZ!!!! That's the genre some purists claim to be 'more intelligent/better' than other genres... How elitist.

To me the soundtrack to "Pirates of the Caribbean" (except for the softer/'nice' parts) pretty much resembles heavy metal in terms of sheer power, disharmonic intervals, intensity etc. Feeling wise it's the same to me, but no overdriven amps/electric guitars used.


totally agree .. symphony x mixes technical with great song writing .. i love dream theater also .. but sometimes it seems they go for .. what ridiculous time sigs can we play in over .. how can we make them actually groove (which symph x does) ...



and another note on the classical music ... dark moor playing vivaldi's winter ... metal style http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txwlKqt01TQ .. if that doesn't prove to everyone that metal is closely related to classical .. i don't know what can
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:58 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz23O...feature=fvwrel how about some mozart?
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:59 PM
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To me, metal (classical) and blues are oil and water. Are these two mutually exclusive in anyone else's mind?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCjspyo-_aI

The first Sabbath Album is like the missing link of Metal linking it to Blues and Jazz.
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:01 PM
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Trailer park classical! I (don't) love it! Yeee haw!
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:03 PM
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It slowly evolved, for sure. One could even look to classical composers and fast-picking bluegrass players as super influential on the more shred-based stuff :-D

However!
Sabbath are the godfathers of what are, in my opinion, the finest branches of metal...

Sludge, stoner, doom, etc.
Got the groove, the hopelessness, the heavy.

Metal's been doomed since the get-go by people lumping bands like SunnO))) and Motley Crue into something that's even remotely similar.
Some poster mentioned how Metal is the silliest genre... It's tough as a fan of the music to have to deal with people like that who have been brainwashed by mainstream media :(
Metal's always had that to deal with them... truly an underdog genre.
Yes, it is underdog, and it doesn't help when there appears to be more people interested in playing metal, than in listening to it.

I grew up on metal and its many relatives, like Butt Rock. I have the greatest respect and affection for the music. I love metal for all the skulls, fangs, spikes, tattoos, double bass, fake blood, synchronized hair swings, wanking, machismo, ersatz Satanism, obscure sub-sub-sub-sub categories, distorted sound, rebellion and the seriousness with which it takes itself. But all that stuff is still goofy and great at the same time and that's why I love metal so.

One way metalheads get around the sting of the opinions of others is to say, "Anything other than black thrash Viking doomcore sludge isn't metal. So Motley Crue really isn't metal."

Believe me, when their first album came out in 1981, it added an entirely new category to metal: Fluorescent Green LA Butt Rock. Which is entirely different than Fluorescent BLUE LA Butt Rock - hell, the blue haired variety really isn't even metal.
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  #39  
Old 10-18-2011, 08:15 PM
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Pachikara-Tharakan Pachikara-Tharakan is offline
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

here is the answer, its all hidden there folks!
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:22 PM
mikel mikel is offline
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Default Re: The birth of heavy metal

I agree Sabbath were probably the first out and out Metal band, as opposed to the heavy rock bands at the time.

Dont know If this is true but I seem to recall the first mention of "Heavy and Metallic" was made by Rick Wakeman commenting on ELPs album Tarkus. He said something like," It sounds heavy and metallic to me".

It may be possible that his phrase "Heavy and Metallic" morphed into heavy metal as a musical phrase.

Just an anecdote.
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