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  #1  
Old 10-12-2011, 10:38 AM
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Default Pedals is my Life..

Hey Guys, I'm new here but been building pedals for over 25 years... Maybe my experience can help... Any Questions??
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  #2  
Old 10-12-2011, 11:09 AM
joshthedrumkid97 joshthedrumkid97 is offline
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

What brand of pedals do you make?
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:16 AM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Dr. Pedal,
sorry man, I thought you're a spammer because your post on another thread was kinda out of context...

Do you have a website? My interest would be double pedals for faster stuff.
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  #4  
Old 10-12-2011, 01:07 PM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arky View Post
Dr. Pedal,
sorry man, I thought you're a spammer because your post on another thread was kinda out of context...

Do you have a website? My interest would be double pedals for faster stuff.
Thanks, I may be worse, I'm a newbie, but learning.

The website is in my profile, and I hope I won't get in trouble for this, but here goes..

http://www.eccentricsystems.com

Plus I've got a classified here on drummerworld..
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  #5  
Old 10-12-2011, 01:12 PM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshthedrumkid97 View Post
What brand of pedals do you make?
Hey Josh,

I did the 9000 bass pedal and 9500 high hat for DW, plus some other technology other places. I've a website you can link to from my profile, and above (unless it is removed)..

Because I'm new here, I don't want to break the rules, so far I like this place very much...

I've an ad in the classifieds and more info at the website.
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  #6  
Old 10-12-2011, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Hey there Dr. Pedal, I have a question for you, if you don't mind me asking.

I'm thinking about getting a new chain-drive single pedal. It can be a DW 5000 AD3, a Pearl Eliminator or a Tama Iron Cobra. I can't make my mind about which to get. I'd love to know your opinion, more especifically, which one would you get and why.

Thanks a lot. Cheers!
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  #7  
Old 10-12-2011, 09:28 PM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Quote:
Originally Posted by diegobxr View Post
Hey there Dr. Pedal, I have a question for you, if you don't mind me asking.

I'm thinking about getting a new chain-drive single pedal. It can be a DW 5000 AD3, a Pearl Eliminator or a Tama Iron Cobra. I can't make my mind about which to get. I'd love to know your opinion, more especifically, which one would you get and why.

Thanks a lot. Cheers!
Hey Dygo,

In my opinion these are very comparable pedals, but there are some differences.

Each are similar in that the "height" of the footplate at impact can be adjusted by moving the chain on the cam. Each has a stroke length or beater "rest" adjustment on the spring arm, and a spring tension adjustment. Also each have a "turbo plate" which gives a bit more stability but also aids in protecting the pedal when it's in the trap case because the footplate and frame stay secure, unlike with the pedals that use the wire bass that allows the pedal to fold, and twist the chain.

To break them down we'll start with the DW 5000. I would say it is the simplest to use and adjust. The accelerator cam gives a strong impact and overall the pedal is very durable and well made.

The Iron Cobra, a bit bulky compared to the other two, but also very well built. The drive cam on the cobra does not have as much eccentrics as the accelerator cam so not as strong an impact, but perhaps a bit quicker return through the spring system. The Cobra does not have as many bearing on the moving parts as the 5000, but still a durable quality pedal.

As to the Pearl, it has the smallest drive cam, and thus has the least impact power of of the three. This small drive cam does make the pedal feel "light" or pretty easy to push down, however this also makes the pearl the slower of the three for return speed. The pearl does have a footplate adjustment in that there is a "face plate" on the footplate that can be set to give a bit of a "pocket" under the ball of the foot, or it can be reversed to give height under the "instep" of your foot should your playing style be a "heel down" type. IE This footplate adjustment is for either heel up playing (as shipped) or "flipped" for a heel down style.

As each of these pedals have different size drive cams, and subtle differences in the spring system, and each will "feel" different.

As to which YOU should buy, in my opinion this would be based on which pedal your playing now... Your leg muscles are "used" to what your playing, so go with the one that feels best to you. This would be the one that best fits what your muscles are used to. To move to a pedal that doesn't feel good just because of brand or features will mean you'll need to retrain some of your muscles... This is fine, but will take longer for your muscles to adjust to the new pedal. Should the pedals ALL feel good, then it comes down to the adjustments and features you prefer and how easily it can be adjusted.

I hope this helps

Thanks
Dr. Pedal
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  #8  
Old 10-14-2011, 08:03 PM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Wow man, what a great answer! Thanks a lot, seriously.

I've been playing for almost ten years and for the most part, I've always played on crappy, stock, single-chain pedals. I used to own a cheap Gibraltar and now I'm playing with the stock Mapex 700 Series pedal that comes with the Meridian Drums.

I guess I was never too picky with my pedals. I just adjusted the tension on the spring and played whatever I had. But now my Mapex pedal is squeaking, and I have some money so I thought it would be a good idea to get myself a nice quality pedal.

The Pearl looks tempting because of the different cams. Also Pearl hardware is very sturdy so I know it won't give me any problems. On the other hand, the DW5000 seems to be a "classic-can't go wrong" pedal, but I've read several stories of people breaking their footplates.. I don't know much about the Tama. I think I'm gonna browse their websites now to get some more info.

Oh, and unfortunatelly I can't try the pedals personally, since a friend is buying them on the States for me.

Anyway I'm pretty sure any of these pedals will work fine. :) Thanks a lot for your help, man.

Cheers
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  #9  
Old 10-17-2011, 04:17 PM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Pedal View Post
Hey Dygo,
As to the Pearl, it has the smallest drive cam, and thus has the least impact power of of the three. This small drive cam does make the pedal feel "light" or pretty easy to push down, however this also makes the pearl the slower of the three for return speed.
Could you clarify? A smaller diameter cam will result in a heavier feel and more power, where a larger diameter cam will feel lighter. And this also ignores that the Eliminator has multiple cams of different sizes and profiles.
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  #10  
Old 10-17-2011, 04:56 PM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soupy View Post
Could you clarify? A smaller diameter cam will result in a heavier feel and more power, where a larger diameter cam will feel lighter. And this also ignores that the Eliminator has multiple cams of different sizes and profiles.
I think Dr Pedal says that the smaller cam offers a lighter feel, less power. The big cam converts more energy from the foot to a heavier strike.

Did I read that right?

Dr Pedal - My Big Dog Double pedals have just developed a creaky spring - any suggestions for repair or does it need replacing?
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  #11  
Old 10-18-2011, 01:21 AM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Netz Ausg View Post
I think Dr Pedal says that the smaller cam offers a lighter feel, less power. The big cam converts more energy from the foot to a heavier strike.

Did I read that right?

Dr Pedal - My Big Dog Double pedals have just developed a creaky spring - any suggestions for repair or does it need replacing?
Yes Netz,

First, your spring problem.. This will happen where the spring pivots and also when the wires rub together.. To find out which, first try a little oil in the hole where the spring connects to the adjustment bolt, though I don't think that is the problem, so try pulling the spring open and rub a bit of oil on the actual spring coils, if this works and the sound goes away, this will only work temporally... To make this work for a longer time, pull the spring open, and use a heavier grease on the coils.

You've got it right on the cams, As for the Pearl, cams you can insert on to the hub, this is to provide either a round cam or an eccentric (accelerator) type cam in a few sizes.. This was in response to the adjustable eccentric cam on the DW 9000.

As to the "speed" of the pedals that comes down to the spring system and not the drive cam. To describe in detail would take much more time than I have to explain, but of the three spring systems, the pearl is the least mechanically efficient.

Pedals move in two directions, the drive cams and their different types alter the input energy, while the spring system controls the return motion, this motion must translate this energy through the drive shaft and thus through the drive cams back to the footplate, so the drive cam is involved, however the "energy" of the return comes from the spring, and depending upon your style of playing, can also come from bounce off the drum head.

I hope this helps, but for now I must work...

Thanks.
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  #12  
Old 10-18-2011, 01:26 AM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soupy View Post
Could you clarify? A smaller diameter cam will result in a heavier feel and more power, where a larger diameter cam will feel lighter. And this also ignores that the Eliminator has multiple cams of different sizes and profiles.
Hey Soupy,

I added some information about the cams, but think of them like perhaps bicycle sprockets. Like with sprockets, larger will produce more energy, but be more difficult to turn, while smaller sprockets are easier to turn, but lower energy...

thanks..
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  #13  
Old 10-18-2011, 01:50 AM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Pedal View Post
Hey Guys, I'm new here but been building pedals for over 25 years... Maybe my experience can help... Any Questions??
Hey Dr. Pedal,

Thanks for your insight. I just bought a Sonor SP472, single pedal about 50 bucks. I don't know much of anything about pedals, but I tightened the spring tension and moved the beater further back from the drum head because I like resistance, a good distance to drive my foot down, and the pedal angle a little high off the ground. I haven't done much tweaking yet, but I've noticed that when I'm playing a simple rock groove where I kick the drum hard on the 1 and 3, the pedal kinda pops back and hits the head again very lightly. I can avoid this if I alter my foot technique, but any idea what that is? I probably just gotta mess around with the pedal a little. It's making all of my quarter notes sound like the intro to "When the Levee Breaks."

I'll also be getting Sonor Giant Step pedals down the road including the Twin Effect Pedal. Any knowledge of those pedals?

I will check out your website. Thanks!
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  #14  
Old 10-18-2011, 04:18 AM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Pedal View Post
Thanks, I may be worse, I'm a newbie, but learning.

The website is in my profile, and I hope I won't get in trouble for this, but here goes..

http://www.eccentricsystems.com

Plus I've got a classified here on drummerworld..
Thank you for supporting this site financially. I do appreciate it.

Your pedals look cool.
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  #15  
Old 10-18-2011, 05:57 AM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Hey Ted,

It sounds to me that you play an "open bass" style, where you hit the head, then let it rebound and stay back until your next beat... The other type of "foot style" is to bury the beater into the head and leave it against the head until just before the next beat, then pull back strike and bury...

Being old, I see this as the the "Jazz (Louie Bellson [first player to play 2 BD had them tuned differently]) and the "Rock" style that buries the head.

If you are the Jazz open style, this will be a problem. The pedal is doing it's job, returning the pedal, but because it uses a spring, it just swings back and hit's the head. Holding your foot up doesn't help because the pedal just comes off the bottom of your foot and swings anyway.

For this style the Axis are in my opinion the best pedal. It's a direct dive, and the spring is VERY weak, (don't believe me, have a drummer that buries the beater try it, they will think it "slow"..)

This combination on the Axis keeps this repeat to a minimum, but the only guarantee is to put on those bicycle pedal "cages" that go over the top of the foot, this and the direct drive linkage will keep the pedal from swinging...

OK.. all I got for now....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted T View Post
Hey Dr. Pedal,

Thanks for your insight. I just bought a Sonor SP472, single pedal about 50 bucks. I don't know much of anything about pedals, but I tightened the spring tension and moved the beater further back from the drum head because I like resistance, a good distance to drive my foot down, and the pedal angle a little high off the ground. I haven't done much tweaking yet, but I've noticed that when I'm playing a simple rock groove where I kick the drum hard on the 1 and 3, the pedal kinda pops back and hits the head again very lightly. I can avoid this if I alter my foot technique, but any idea what that is? I probably just gotta mess around with the pedal a little. It's making all of my quarter notes sound like the intro to "When the Levee Breaks."

I'll also be getting Sonor Giant Step pedals down the road including the Twin Effect Pedal. Any knowledge of those pedals?

I will check out your website. Thanks!
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  #16  
Old 10-18-2011, 06:27 AM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Cool gadget.

I would be interested in testimonials on the product. Anyone have one?
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  #17  
Old 10-18-2011, 07:00 AM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monica McCoy View Post
Cool gadget.

I would be interested in testimonials on the product. Anyone have one?
Hey Monica,

We're on facebook at Eccentric Systems Drum Company,

Here is a testimonial from Earnest (Gumbo) Johnson From New York..

Dear eccentricsystems,
i just used the quick torque cam tonite on a gig and i'm truly amazed,my pedal was much more responsive and reacted immediately after a stroke returning the pedal to the next striking position!the cam itself is very well made and fit the pedal easily and i think it was great price.in addition to your fast service and info provided,i think its a great product and a great deal.are you working on anything for my hihat pedal?that would be great! thanks again for a fantastic product!

You can reach Eccentric Systems from their website or e-mail l@eccentricsystems.com

Hope this helps..

DR. Pedal
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  #18  
Old 10-25-2011, 02:56 AM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Dear Dr Pedal,

What are you thought's on this pedal design?


..................................
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  #19  
Old 10-25-2011, 02:57 AM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

It looks difficult to finesse.
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  #20  
Old 10-25-2011, 03:19 AM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
Dear Dr Pedal,

What are you thought's on this pedal design?


..................................
Very Creative. I see a lot of very creative designs like this that work very well for the creator but don't translate well into the broad market. I've seen other players sit on a bass drum or cajon and play a normal pedal backwards with the heel, but never anything like this. Good Luck with it, though I don't feel a lot of players will change their style to adapt...

I hope that helps...

Lucas
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  #21  
Old 10-25-2011, 03:58 AM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Pedal View Post
Very Creative. I see a lot of very creative designs like this that work very well for the creator but don't translate well into the broad market. I've seen other players sit on a bass drum or cajon and play a normal pedal backwards with the heel, but never anything like this. Good Luck with it, though I don't feel a lot of players will change their style to adapt...

I hope that helps...

Lucas

OK... lets clear something up first, are you a real doctor, or are you just playing one here on DRUMMERWORLD?

This design makes sense from an anatomical standpoint b/c the player is stabilized by a planted foot, as opposed to a floating foot. The heel is the more efficient driver also, has more power.

This 'style' may be so natural a motion, there might be nothing to adapt to.
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  #22  
Old 10-25-2011, 04:01 AM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Dr. Pedal, what is your opinion on internal compression springs, like the Trick pedals, and why have they not become the standard yet? I'm interested in hearing your opinion.
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  #23  
Old 10-25-2011, 04:05 AM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
Dear Dr Pedal,

What are you thought's on this pedal design?


..................................
It makes the rest of the drum set sound like poop.
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  #24  
Old 10-25-2011, 04:11 AM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

This pedal is a more 'clinical' looking design, thought's Dr?


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  #25  
Old 10-25-2011, 08:04 AM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
OK... lets clear something up first, are you a real doctor, or are you just playing one here on DRUMMERWORLD?

This design makes sense from an anatomical standpoint b/c the player is stabilized by a planted foot, as opposed to a floating foot. The heel is the more efficient driver also, has more power.

This 'style' may be so natural a motion, there might be nothing to adapt to.
First let me say this...

I do admire your passion, and willingness to stand behind your design, you'll need that in whatever designs you have now or in the future... Don't let what I say discourage you, it IS very creative and I'm sure you learned a lot in making it. In my experience this education and keeping "at" something is a rare talent, keep it up. I only say that my experience would lead me to think it would be a difficult sale...

I've been designing pedals and drum hardware since 1987... The DW 9000 and 9500 high hats are my designs, IF you wish, you can check the patent numbers. You can find them at http://www.eccentricsystems.com And though I don't have a PHD in Engineering, I do know about pedals... In my professional opinion:

This pedal has no speed, the beater comes back so far you have to tuck your pants in your sock, and even on the demo, you drop beats because the mechanics can't handle the re-direction.

Hey, Jazz is also a difficult sale, and much beautiful music is never accepted by "the masses" though this by no means detracts from the talent and creativity. Design is a frustrating passion....

again, best of luck in your ideas... I do mean that sincerely...

Dr. Pedal
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  #26  
Old 10-25-2011, 08:11 AM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeSnyder View Post
Dr. Pedal, what is your opinion on internal compression springs, like the Trick pedals, and why have they not become the standard yet? I'm interested in hearing your opinion.
Hey Luke,

The Tricks look real interesting. The spring design is a re-design of the old Ludwig Ghost pedal. I used to play that Ludwig and found it smooth, but the spring adjustment on it was not great.

With the Tricks, I'm sorry to admit I've not played one, and don't know much about it's adjustment. These are one of only a few brands that are not compatible with another of my designs the Quick Torque Return Spring Cam. Because I've been concentrating on pedals with a Side Mounted Spring, I have no good information for you at this time... Sorry Buddy... But let me know what you find...

Thanks
Dr. Pedal
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  #27  
Old 10-25-2011, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
This pedal is a more 'clinical' looking design, thought's Dr?


................................
I see the piston and cam now... yikes lot's of open movement and things sliding on things, Not sure what the life span might be... Especially in colder climates... I think I'll stick with that alligators and roaches...

Dr. Pedal.
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  #28  
Old 10-25-2011, 10:30 PM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Some Video about Quick Torque Cams, A simple modification for over 15 brands of Bass pedals.

http://youtu.be/FW-kNeLSTvE
Example


In Depth
http://youtu.be/S5J-A2KRZMs
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  #29  
Old 10-25-2011, 11:43 PM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Pedal View Post
Hey Luke,

The Tricks look real interesting. The spring design is a re-design of the old Ludwig Ghost pedal. I used to play that Ludwig and found it smooth, but the spring adjustment on it was not great.

With the Tricks, I'm sorry to admit I've not played one, and don't know much about it's adjustment. These are one of only a few brands that are not compatible with another of my designs the Quick Torque Return Spring Cam. Because I've been concentrating on pedals with a Side Mounted Spring, I have no good information for you at this time... Sorry Buddy... But let me know what you find...

Thanks
Dr. Pedal
Fair enough! The adjustment on it is extremely simple, you just turn a knob. Here's an image, in case you haven't seen it:



I believe that this method of returning the beater is similar to what happens with your quick torque cams. As the pin on the left side of the assembly rotates counter-clockwise, it compresses the spring. As the pin rotates more, the force is increased geometrically. I don't think Trick's design actually allows you to adjust that rate of change, however.
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  #30  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeSnyder View Post
Fair enough! The adjustment on it is extremely simple, you just turn a knob. Here's an image, in case you haven't seen it:



I believe that this method of returning the beater is similar to what happens with your quick torque cams. As the pin on the left side of the assembly rotates counter-clockwise, it compresses the spring. As the pin rotates more, the force is increased geometrically. I don't think Trick's design actually allows you to adjust that rate of change, however.
Thanks Luke For Proving Me TOTALLY WRONG... I admit it, I was wrong!! I had thought they used a rotational spring, But this is NOT that...

It's use of a compression spring was generally only found in the speed king. This is quite unique, and I thank you very much for the education... The pin seems to rotate in a concentric manor (rotating at the same distance from the pivot) but because a compression spring can build more force in a smaller area, and more pressure per degree of rotation, the spring can be quite small. Can you adjust the beater angle on the Trick? I'm sure you would be able to, and I will have to check this out "first foot" as it were...

As to the Quick Torque cams, they are eccentric cams (changing the distance from the edge to the pivot) kind of like a compound bow, or the drive cam on an accelerator pedal. These reduce the amount of drive shaft rotation required to build the spring tension improving the efficiency of the mechanical parts.

Thanks for the lesson Luke... I've still much to learn!! Stay in touch Buddy!!
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  #31  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:37 AM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Can you tell me if your adaptor will fit the original Taye XP-1 pedal that won best of show at NAMM a few years ago.It was Metalworks model I think, but not the current one. Taye has since changed it but would be willing to give it a try if it will fit. Thanks.
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  #32  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Pedal View Post
Thanks Luke For Proving Me TOTALLY WRONG... I admit it, I was wrong!! I had thought they used a rotational spring, But this is NOT that...

It's use of a compression spring was generally only found in the speed king. This is quite unique, and I thank you very much for the education... The pin seems to rotate in a concentric manor (rotating at the same distance from the pivot) but because a compression spring can build more force in a smaller area, and more pressure per degree of rotation, the spring can be quite small. Can you adjust the beater angle on the Trick? I'm sure you would be able to, and I will have to check this out "first foot" as it were...

As to the Quick Torque cams, they are eccentric cams (changing the distance from the edge to the pivot) kind of like a compound bow, or the drive cam on an accelerator pedal. These reduce the amount of drive shaft rotation required to build the spring tension improving the efficiency of the mechanical parts.

Thanks for the lesson Luke... I've still much to learn!! Stay in touch Buddy!!
Haha, I don't really know what I'm talking about though, I'd never even HEARD of the Ghost pedals... You are correct of course, the pin does move concentrically. As far as the beater angle, yes, you can adjust it. You can also adjust how high the footboard connects to the direct drive link:



I had slightly misconstrued how your Quick Torque cams function, before, I see not how they differ. I just looked at them more closely, and it appears to be a fantastic idea! I'm slightly confused as to why they won't work with Axis pedals though, is there a brief explanation for that? I have a pair of Axis AL in the mail, and would have liked to try out those quick torque cams!
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:30 AM
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Can you tell me if your adaptor will fit the original Taye XP-1 pedal that won best of show at NAMM a few years ago.It was Metalworks model I think, but not the current one. Taye has since changed it but would be willing to give it a try if it will fit. Thanks.
Well, we can find out in just a minuet if you wish, I see from pictures it very well might. They seem to have the beater adjustment at the top of the spring assembly...

Luke, another friend here has just schooled me about Trick pedals so I'm trying not to assume, but if you remove the spring arm, and the shaft is round, and splined or having a rough surface, then it should be compatible.

The Quick Torque Cams have a single set screw in the 12 O:Clock position, so if that has a good grip point on the drive shaft, everything should be fine.

Take a look and let me know... Now I'm Curious....

Dr. Pedal
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:35 AM
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Hey Guys, I'm new here but been building pedals for over 25 years... Maybe my experience can help... Any Questions??
Hi Dr Pedal
I've read the forum in which you are talking about foot style, ie: jazz or rock. I played the "rock" style for about ten years and then moved on to play the "jazz" style for the last twenty years. I do have sometimes the problem described by Ted about the beater touching the heads between strokes, but over the years i kind of managed to avoid this trouble by adjusting my foot techinique, i play heel-up, toe-heel and some sliding techniques, i use about two third of the footboard.

Now, you mentioned this was normal and that a direct drive pedal would be more suitable the "jazz" style.

I play with a recently purchased Mapex Falcon that i have choosen over 5 others contenders because it offers to 2 drives systems (chain or strap) and 2 cams (glide or pursuit) with the option (at extra cost) to fit a direct drive unit to the pedal.

Would the direct drive resolve the problem? and would it still be suitable for fitting your Quick Torque system?

By the way welcome to the drummerworld forum, I'm a new member myself.
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Last edited by Mad About Drums; 10-26-2011 at 01:37 AM. Reason: spelling
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  #35  
Old 10-26-2011, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by LukeSnyder View Post
Haha, I don't really know what I'm talking about though, I'd never even HEARD of the Ghost pedals... You are correct of course, the pin does move concentrically. As far as the beater angle, yes, you can adjust it. You can also adjust how high the footboard connects to the direct drive link:



I had slightly misconstrued how your Quick Torque cams function, before, I see not how they differ. I just looked at them more closely, and it appears to be a fantastic idea! I'm slightly confused as to why they won't work with Axis pedals though, is there a brief explanation for that? I have a pair of Axis AL in the mail, and would have liked to try out those quick torque cams!
Thanks Luke,

That Trick does surprise me... It should be smooth...

The Quick torques don't fit the Axis because the cam is physically too large, It'ed be like puttin' a corn fed Kansas farm girl into a Beverly hills Bikini... It just won't fit..... Mechanically I think it would work, and I am working on talking to them, but the cam is about as small as I can make it and still have adequately sized screw..

With the Quick Torque design, I tried to use a screw with a drum key sized head, but because the screws are small and drummers like to "Torque Things Down" I found I had to switch to the allen screw heads. It keeps people from breaking or stripping them, though I feel less "handy" as a drum key... again, Design is a fickle business...

We could experiment.......

Dr. Pedal
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Mad About Drums View Post
Hi Dr Pedal
I've read the forum in which you are talking about foot style, ie: jazz or rock. I played the "rock" style for about ten years and then moved on to play the "jazz" style for the last twenty years. I do have sometimes the problem described by Ted about the beater touching the heads between strokes, but over the years i kind of managed to avoid this trouble by adjusting my foot techinique, i play heel-up, toe-heel and some sliding techniques, i use about two third of the footboard.

Now, you mentioned this was normal and that a direct drive pedal would be more suitable the "jazz" style.

I play with a recently purchased Mapex Falcon that i have choosen over 5 others contenders because it offers to 2 drives systems (chain or strap) and 2 cams (glide or pursuit) with the option (at extra cost) to fit a direct drive unit to the pedal.

Would the direct drive resolve the problem? and would it still be suitable for fitting your Quick Torque system?

By the way welcome to the drummerworld forum, I'm a new member myself.
Hi MAD...

Welcome in...

A Question, did you find you changed your style for "tone" IE a better bass drum tone? Personally though I don't get to play as much as I like any more, I'm a rocker.. I'm wondering what is your experience with speed in this change? Given that the pedal is already back away from the head when you start your stroke, there may be a higher potential for speed, but most players I know that play the Jazz style don't use a high speed foot... What is your experience???

As to the Mapex, It's a good pedal, some quality parts and bearings in it. I'm also seeing that they have a direct drive adapter for it.

I mention direct drive, and the bicycle cages over the foot because this eliminates the pedal moving. Everything is directly attached. With a chain or strap, you may hold the foot plate with a cage, but the strap will go slack and still rock back to the head.

The falcon is compatible with Quick Torque cams, and I have heard from other jazz players that they do help a lot in the double striking. Because the Eccentrics on the Quick Torque pull the drive shaft back at a 30% higher speed, the cam also needed a better way to stop the forward motion, which was designed in...

Tell you what, if you want to try them and DON'T like them, I return your money and shipping...
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Pedal View Post
Thanks Luke,

That Trick does surprise me... It should be smooth...

The Quick torques don't fit the Axis because the cam is physically too large, It'ed be like puttin' a corn fed Kansas farm girl into a Beverly hills Bikini... It just won't fit..... Mechanically I think it would work, and I am working on talking to them, but the cam is about as small as I can make it and still have adequately sized screw..

With the Quick Torque design, I tried to use a screw with a drum key sized head, but because the screws are small and drummers like to "Torque Things Down" I found I had to switch to the allen screw heads. It keeps people from breaking or stripping them, though I feel less "handy" as a drum key... again, Design is a fickle business...

We could experiment.......

Dr. Pedal
Yes, the more I saw of the Trick pedals, the more I was impressed. The price tag is very high, they cost around $850... not getting a pair anytime soon!

Ahhh, that makes sense about the cam just being physically too large. Because I had my Axis X longboard out, and I was looking at it, and I thought to myself... "There's no reason those quick torques couldn't work on here!" That would be a problem...
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by LukeSnyder View Post
Yes, the more I saw of the Trick pedals, the more I was impressed. The price tag is very high, they cost around $850... not getting a pair anytime soon!

Ahhh, that makes sense about the cam just being physically too large. Because I had my Axis X longboard out, and I was looking at it, and I thought to myself... "There's no reason those quick torques couldn't work on here!" That would be a problem...
So Luke, do you facebook...

Friend me at Lucas Jacobson. Minneapolis I'd like to stay in touch...

PEACE

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Old 10-26-2011, 03:06 AM
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Default Re: Pedals is my Life..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Pedal View Post
Hi MAD...

Welcome in...

A Question, did you find you changed your style for "tone" IE a better bass drum tone? Personally though I don't get to play as much as I like any more, I'm a rocker.. I'm wondering what is your experience with speed in this change? Given that the pedal is already back away from the head when you start your stroke, there may be a higher potential for speed, but most players I know that play the Jazz style don't use a high speed foot... What is your experience???

As to the Mapex, It's a good pedal, some quality parts and bearings in it. I'm also seeing that they have a direct drive adapter for it.

I mention direct drive, and the bicycle cages over the foot because this eliminates the pedal moving. Everything is directly attached. With a chain or strap, you may hold the foot plate with a cage, but the strap will go slack and still rock back to the head.

The falcon is compatible with Quick Torque cams, and I have heard from other jazz players that they do help a lot in the double striking. Because the Eccentrics on the Quick Torque pull the drive shaft back at a 30% higher speed, the cam also needed a better way to stop the forward motion, which was designed in...

Tell you what, if you want to try them and DON'T like them, I return your money and shipping...
I changed my foot technique for many reasons, part of it is about the sound, secondly, when I was doing double stroke in 16th notes I did not liked the fact the first hit was an "open" sound followed by "buried" sound I also wanted to apply to the foot what I was doing with my hands, ie: for louder strokes you raise your wrist, open the fingers and even lift the forearm for extra power. I thought that if I adjusted the angle of the beater quite a lot towards me I could reproduce the action with my foot. As you lift you foot to hit the drum, the beater goes towards you and by dosing the amount of force to the stroke you can actually play extremely loud. The sliding technique allow me to get speed and power. To actually achieve control of the beater, I had to adjust the spring that is just short of being loose, which is normal in a way considering the distance the beater as to travel. So basically, this is it and it works for me. I am too a rocker by heart, but over the years I enjoyed playing others styles (but I still play rock songs). With this foot technique I've found that I'm less tired than the "rock" style.

With the Quick Torque Cam, does the pedal feel harder to push than the conventional cam? I like the idea that the beater return 30% quicker, this definitely improve speed and power, but not if it require 30% more force to hit the drum.
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Mad About Drums View Post
I changed my foot technique for many reasons, part of it is about the sound, secondly, when I was doing double stroke in 16th notes I did not liked the fact the first hit was an "open" sound followed by "buried" sound I also wanted to apply to the foot what I was doing with my hands, ie: for louder strokes you raise your wrist, open the fingers and even lift the forearm for extra power. I thought that if I adjusted the angle of the beater quite a lot towards me I could reproduce the action with my foot. As you lift you foot to hit the drum, the beater goes towards you and by dosing the amount of force to the stroke you can actually play extremely loud. The sliding technique allow me to get speed and power. To actually achieve control of the beater, I had to adjust the spring that is just short of being loose, which is normal in a way considering the distance the beater as to travel. So basically, this is it and it works for me. I am too a rocker by heart, but over the years I enjoyed playing others styles (but I still play rock songs). With this foot technique I've found that I'm less tired than the "rock" style.

With the Quick Torque Cam, does the pedal feel harder to push than the conventional cam? I like the idea that the beater return 30% quicker, this definitely improve speed and power, but not if it require 30% more force to hit the drum.
Thanks for the insite... it makes great since, and if I wasn't so old I was a bus boy at the last supper, I'd give er a go... I was of the Louis Bellson school that shoulder is slower than the elbow and the wrist slower than the fingers, so I applied that to the leg and planted my heel... It took a while, but it did, if I may say, make me very fast but still with power. I could never get the heel up style, your combining ankle and leg and kind of balancing on your butt... But by the same token, If I were a better drummer, I probably wouldn't be a designer... I'd be playing for a living...

As to the force to push down, that's where Quick Torques are very much like a compound bow, they are much easier to push down... Because a cam is used instead of an "arm" the curves of the cam have a power or input side, and a different return side. Each "side" of the cam is curved to improve the efficiency. The "In depth" video posted below explained it fairly well.. Does that help??
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