Metronome practice messing with my timing

[Liebe zeit]

So I've been playing (in this phase) for about 12 months. A few months ago I started metronome rudiment practice and worked up 5 or 10 bpm every week or so and am at 150 bpm now (every day for 15-20 mins before hitting the kit).

I used to feel I had good timing, but a definite upper bpm limit of about 130. Now I've gone past what felt like my 'natural' bpm rates and it seems to have had an unwanted effect. I can hear timing issues in band practice recordings and feel it in a sort of uncertaintly over my timekeeping when playing alone.

Anyone had a similar experience?

I'm consoling myself with the idea that a) I'm better at spotting timing errors now, or b) I have genuinely deteriorated but it's a prelude to an imminent improvement :-)

[Dr_Watso]

It's option A.

At a year of play all without a metronome, unless you practice all day every day, you're going to still have some timing issues. If it makes you feel any better, you've probably had them all along.

[Connorea69]

I agree it is definitely option A. For improvement I suggest practicing on your kit with a metronome at all times, it helps build your time keeping skills and you can also log what tempos you need improvement in and go from there.

[Duckenheimer]

Agree with previous posters. Also I think one of the bests thing for your timing with a metronome is recording yourself and see how locked in you really are with it, and keep adjusting until you are as close to being bang on the beat as you can possibly hear.

[Tim Waterson]

Originally Posted by Liebe zeit

So I've been playing (in this phase) for about 12 months. A few months ago I started metronome rudiment practice and worked up 5 or 10 bpm every week or so and am at 150 bpm now (every day for 15-20 mins before hitting the kit).

I used to feel I had good timing, but a definite upper bpm limit of about 130. Now I've gone past what felt like my 'natural' bpm rates and it seems to have had an unwanted effect. I can hear timing issues in band practice recordings and feel it in a sort of uncertaintly over my timekeeping when playing alone.

Anyone had a similar experience?

I'm consoling myself with the idea that a) I'm better at spotting timing errors now, or b) I have genuinely deteriorated but it's a prelude to an imminent improvement :-)

Working with a metrenome helps build your inner clock and helps your confidence so you can relax and just play MUSIC.
you've only been playing a year don't be so tough on yourself.
and YES record yourself as much as possible with and without a metrenome and you'll see where your time falls apart and locks in.
best of luck
Tim

[Odd-Arne Oseberg]

Musical development is not a steady rise, rather it`s more of a generally rising rollercoaster ride.

[Toby_Jackson]

Like others have mentioned above, the more you work with a metronome, the better tuned your "inner clock" will get. The more you work on your inner sense of time, the more your ears will pick up on ever more sensitive variations in timing. My theory is you're actually getting steadily more solid time, yet your ear can pick up on more subtle fluctuations in your playing when your listening back to recordings. When I began to work seriously on my time, I began to hear inconsistencies in drummers and recordings that I had previously thought to be flawless - it was quite bewildering to start noticing timing issues in the playing of guys like Neil Peart or Stewart Copeland in my college years, when back in high school I thought of their playing as the cream of the crop. The more you work on your time, the more floored you will be by cats like Steve Gadd or Jim Keltner.

[Liebe zeit]

All good points, which I've taken on board.

My theory is a combination of a) and b). I think I'm pushing my existing limits right now and my abilities have taken a dip as I have a lot of learning activity going on in my poor wee brain right now (I'm also doing a lot of guitar and synth learning right now too - possibly not a great idea). Our band has its first gig in 3 weeks too, so there's all sorts of little anxieties among all band members probably contributing to a bit of rushing, among other things.

I have recordings of us that go back to March so I may do some analysis and see what has actually been going on

[JohnW]

One thing you may want to try: Rather than playing a metronome through a whole song, play it with a select 2 bar phrase. Set the metronome to double time at the tempo you would like to play it at. So if you're playing a song at say, 1/4 note = 80 BPM, set it to 160. Do it 10 or 20 times in a row.

Then set the metronome at a range of tempos plus or minus 5 or 10 BPM from your nominal (160) and do each one 10-20X. You can also try the same concept way slower. Try a nominal tempo 10 or 20 BPM slower than 160 (say 140) and work on a range of tempos 5-10 BPM on either side of that.

This way you're not just practicing landing on the beat notes, but scaling all of the inner notes proportionally and will begin to have them equally spaced, regardless of tempo. Again, you're targeting a problem phrase or one that repeats a lot. If you get a handle on that, the rest of the song should take care of itself, at least timing wise.

So when you're playing live, if the tempo speeds up or slows down, all of the in between notes will tend to adjust almost instantly, rather than surging ahead or dragging and throwing off the pulse of the music.

You should also try this with the whole band, or at least the bass player.

-John

[iwantmemoney]

Good stuff...

I'm 100% pro-metronome, all the way. So my way of saying the thread title would have been, "My timing is messing with the metronome".

The only thing is, that there are times when you have to turn it off, and focus on correct grip.

There are lots of times I'll be trying to play along with the metronome and it can be just plain anti-productive, like if I was on a moving ramp at the airport and trying to read stuff in some of the Mickey Hart displays, but I can't stop moving,(since the metronome won't stop), so I can't get a good look at anything! Meanwhile, my hands are turning into clubs and I'm not getting anything done.

That's when I had your feeling of "deteriorating"...So I always focus on proper grip first, a grip that enables me to execute, and when I've got that going on, the metronome is next. I'll just go back and forth if I have to.

I don't think it's an understatement to say that absolute time is equally as important as absolute pitch. And...it translates into cash.

But we're all talking about the long-range picture, so I wouldn't fry my brain over it if I were you- just take it easy and do your best in your upcoming show!

[Liebe zeit]

An update:

Last night's rehearsal was a superb, in stark contrast to last week.

All the 14-9 tracks are this week's. Give em a listen and let me know your thoughts. Apologies for the singer; he's the only one we've got right now :D

http://soundcloud.com/red-room-resident

Re my timing, OK, so there's some speeding up as some songs progress esp after fills, but I can live with that for now.

What really peed me off last week was sudden-ish changes in tempo (listen to What goes on 7-9-11, ouch), but that might have been just down to all band members having a rotten practice last week and the bad vibe bouncing around. This week we all came back with different heads on, made some huge progress on a couple of tunes and are well set for our forthcoming gig :)

[Liebe zeit]

Secret Weapon! I've programmed all my set drum grooves in Ableton and have them as mp3 that I play along to. It's good practice and quite an eye-opener