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  #1  
Old 08-11-2011, 09:27 PM
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Spectron Spectron is offline
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Default need more sustain...what head combo?

I'm currently using Tama imperialstars (poplar) with 45 degree bearing edges that are pretty decent.

what i have noticed is that what sounds like ample sustain from the driver seat
almost always doesn't translate....especially in recordings and further than 10 feet away from the kit...all that roundness I hear from behind the kit is just gone and they are sounding dead everywhere except from where I sit they sound perfect?

I am decent at tuning and right now I have evans ec2's over remo ambassadors all clear. Sounds is really good round and focused...but recording they are dead...and more than 10 feet away they are dead...is this normal?

What I want to know is if just changing out the reso's to something like clear G-plus
would make good enough difference or If I should go more drastic and go with something like clear ambassadors all 'round or coated ambassadors all 'round?
wondering what I could expect from clear gplus top and bottom as well.

I have used coated emps before and they have more sustain for sure but i want to go a lil 'over the top' so that they sound crisp but deep and round from like 20' away so thinking of going clear for that crispier attack

thanks I'm shooting for the tone in them Guru toms....LOL
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:19 PM
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Default Re: need more sustain...what head combo?

Well if it was only on the recording that they sounded dead, then the recording could be the problem, not the heads. But since you said they sounded dead from 10 feet away then it's probably the heads (unless you're playing in a very small room?).

Keep in mind EC2's are 2 ply heads with rings. The lowest sustain you can get (with the exception of hydraulics of course).
You said you want more sustain the the coated emperors? Well then the obvious choice would be ambassadors (or G1 for evans). Clears will have a bit more sustain, a tighter attack, and a higher pitch, and coated will have a bit lower sustain, a rounder attack, and a lower pitch.

For the reso try clear diplomats or ambassadors from remo or clear G1's for evans
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Old 08-12-2011, 12:29 AM
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Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
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Default Re: need more sustain...what head combo?

I'd opt for a 1 ply batter head (Ambassador or G1) over 1 ply reso head. That should open it up a little for you.
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Old 08-12-2011, 01:01 AM
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Default Re: need more sustain...what head combo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectron View Post
I'm shooting for the tone in them Guru toms....LOL
No problem, that's real easy! (yeah, right).

Good advice on head choice to date. For ultimate sustain, you might try both batter & reso heads the same head & tuning. I suspect the recording method may play some part too. Most players close mic the batter head. The mic is hearing something completely different to your ears. It's likely that the reso heads sustain well beyond the audible cutoff of the batter heads, & the close mic's are unlikely to pick that up. As always with these things though, it's usually a combination of factors. Try tuning as I suggested, but a little higher than usual. That normally brings the sustained tone into it's own space in the mix a little better.

Good luck.
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Old 08-12-2011, 01:47 AM
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Default Re: need more sustain...what head combo?

Good advice all around. I too would recommend a G1 or Ambassador batter, and tune top and bottom heads alike for max sustain. I also second Andy's suggestion of tuning a bit higher - works wonders.
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Old 08-12-2011, 03:40 AM
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Default Re: need more sustain...what head combo?

Yes agree on the higher tuning. Low tuning usually sounds like it has a lot of sustain when you're behind the kit, but when farther away or recording much of it gets lost, where as the sustain from high tunings stays.
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Old 08-12-2011, 04:30 AM
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Default Re: need more sustain...what head combo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
I'd opt for a 1 ply batter head (Ambassador or G1) over 1 ply reso head. That should open it up a little for you.
Echo this

Quote:
Originally Posted by daredrummer View Post
Yes agree on the higher tuning. Low tuning usually sounds like it has a lot of sustain when you're behind the kit, but when farther away or recording much of it gets lost, where as the sustain from high tunings stays.
Echo that.

The muffling rings on the EC1's are killing your drums 'legs". Say you go to 10 mil clear batters and resos. (which I highly recommend) From the drivers seat, it will sound too overtone-y. But 10 feet away it will sound alive like a tom should. If you play unmiced to an audience, totally unmuffled is the way to go. You could go clear 2 ply batters too, if the single plys are too alive, just no muffling. Even a little piece of tape seriously cripples your tom sound from the audience's perspective.
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: need more sustain...what head combo?

cool ! thanks for the advice guys!

I think I'll try ambassador/ambassador clear or G1/g1
and tune a bit higher
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Old 08-13-2011, 08:59 AM
eamesuser eamesuser is offline
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Default Re: need more sustain...what head combo?

+ 1 on the recommendations so far,I play an IMP at my rehearsal place,some pearl or gibraltar iso feet on the ft may help sustain on that drum.The supplied tom mounting system has pretty good sustain,I don't know if rims would help,but might.I find the poplar shells and 45 edge make for a very lively response,with a little less low/mid than birch or maple shells.I currently use clear Amb top and bottom, and get a good amount of punch and enough sustain so the drums sound bid enough out front.I have found with this head combo they seem to like a med to med high tuning range,at higher tunings they seem to lose low end and start to sound thin.
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:46 PM
pbm2112 pbm2112 is offline
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Default Re: need more sustain...what head combo?

Yet another vote for Ambassador over Ambassador!

Something to add is that you need to spend a lot of time getting to know how your toms like to be tuned. Every kit responds differently. I've always tuned both heads the same for maximum resonance - and it never failed until now. I have just found out that my DW Classic shells are way more resonant and distortion free when the bottom head is tuned a 4th or 5th above the batter. I've never tuned this way before, but it's just what this particular shell likes.

I just couldn't get on with the DW. I had tried to tune it like my last kit and when it sounded very average I thought it was just a bad kit that sounded good in the shop because of the room, and started missing my Maple Customs (I still do a bit!). But then it occurred to me that I hadn't really given it a chance.

So, I put a few hours aside and got forensic.

I tuned both heads the same, at as low a pitch as they would comfortably go, and then worked through the options, moving both heads up one semi-tone at a time. Using a keyboard phone app I made a record of all the combinations that really sang - both the note the heads were tuned to, and the overall pitch of the toms. I took the drum from low to high. At the highest pitch I backed off the top head by a 4th, then took both heads down a semi-tone at a time. When I got to a resonant place I'd tweak them both to try a 5th interval.

When I had a few pitches for the 12" and 16" that really sang, I chose the highest two (for projection) that were a 5th apart (which is how I like a two tom set-up). Done. I wrote on the head the note that that skin should be tuned to so now I can check the tuning or tune up a replacement head very quickly.

Yes, this took hours, but now I absolutely love my kit so it was worth it!!

Last edited by pbm2112; 08-15-2011 at 11:54 PM.
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  #11  
Old 08-18-2011, 07:04 PM
EvansSpecialist EvansSpecialist is offline
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Default Re: need more sustain...what head combo?

Instead of transitioning from a 14mil total 2-ply (the EC2S) to a 10mil single-ply (the G1), I'd recommend trying the G Plus (12mil) single-ply over a single-ply reso. You'll have greater sustain with a single-ply head but have increased durability compared to a 10mil single-ply.

As far as tuning goes, I'd recommend tuning both the batter and resonant heads to the same pitch for increased sustain.

Cheers!
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