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  #1  
Old 07-28-2011, 03:00 AM
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Default Must rant before I fix this situation

You know, when the drum companies like DW came out with two-legged hi-hat stands, I thought that was a really dumb engineering idea. So I solved that by never getting into the two-legged stands (never needed it either since I only play a single pedal).

But I like the DW 5500 hi-hat stand and got a three-legged one. But here's another dumb thing they did: there's a full pedal plate on it as well! In order to break it down you have to use a drum key to loosen the plate (basically in four spots) so you can fold the pedal up to get it in a case. As solid and stable as this is, it now takes an additional minute to set it up and to break it down. The pictures I saw of it before I bought it showed it with the usual bendy-rods to hold the pedal in place on the frame. Apparently, that's not how they're makin' 'em anymore. Grrr.

Like I said, I love the weight and the stability, but it seems so over-engineered as to make me hate the whole design. The early 5500 hi-hat stands didn't use the plate, and their new 3500 doesn't use a plate, but that stand is much lighter. So I'm currently searching for someone with an old 5500 hi-hat stand to sell. Anybody? I'll make this work one way or another, but can someone tell those guys in the white lab coats at DW to stop over-engineering their stuff? This makes me want to go to Pearl or something. Sheesh!
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Old 07-28-2011, 03:08 AM
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Default Re: Must rant before I fix this situation

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
This makes me want to go to Pearl or something. Sheesh!
Yeah...make the jump to Pearl mate (at least the top-o-the-range). Then you only have to contend with inter-changeable cams, footboard "docking stations", convertable spiked feet, weird and wonderful rod-pull systems.....and yes.....drum keys to set the footboard up!!

Over engineering in the extreme.
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Old 07-28-2011, 03:10 AM
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Default Re: Must rant before I fix this situation

Thank God for the Iron Cobra Lever Glide!
The pedal board folds right up on itself.
It has two legs and I love mine.
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Old 07-28-2011, 04:58 AM
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Default Re: Must rant before I fix this situation

Really, who OK'd that? You have to wonder why someone at DW didn't say, "Hey this thing is a PITA to break down. Nobody's gonna want that".

I can't believe that fact was not considered. I wouldn't buy it knowing this.
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:07 AM
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Default Re: Must rant before I fix this situation

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Really, who OK'd that? You have to wonder why someone at DW didn't say, "Hey this thing is a PITA to break down. Nobody's gonna want that".

I can't believe that fact was not considered. I wouldn't buy it knowing this.
That's why it somewhat angers me. The picture showed one thing, and the stand arrived the way it did. I thought I'd try to work with it but now (way beyond being able to return it) it just pisses me off.

On a side note - there's a guy selling a Vintage '80s Tama Titan hi-hat stand and a Tama King Beat bass drum pedal (that I played as a kid). I'm heavily debating right now....
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Old 07-28-2011, 06:03 AM
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Default Re: Must rant before I fix this situation

I like yamaha hardware. Sturdy as DW in my opinion and without the price. Easy to use as well.
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Old 07-28-2011, 06:22 AM
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Default Re: Must rant before I fix this situation

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Originally Posted by daredrummer View Post
I like yamaha hardware. Sturdy as DW in my opinion and without the price. Easy to use as well.
Yeah, back in the early 90s I had a Yamaha 7-series hi-hat stand that I could not destroy. It was awesome. I just see Yamaha hardware all day at Disneyland so I don't need it at home ;)
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:30 AM
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Default Re: Must rant before I fix this situation

Why cant you return it?. And arent DW the kings of the "quick release". ;)

Oh well, if you cant return it, I'm sure you could get rid of it for a decent price there on La La Land Craigslist.

I know you had a 3007 kit. Did you ever have the 400 series hat stand?. It has the bendy rods. Its sturdy, light, cheap and easy on the eyes.
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  #9  
Old 07-28-2011, 08:37 AM
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Default Re: Must rant before I fix this situation

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Why cant you return it?. And arent DW the kings of the "quick release". ;)

Oh well, if you cant return it, I'm sure you could get rid of it for a decent price there on La La Land Craigslist.

I know you had a 3007 kit. Did you ever have the 400 series hat stand?. It has the bendy rods. Its sturdy, light, cheap and easy on the eyes.
No, I was using the light Tama Stagemaster stuff and some Ludwig flat-based cymbal stands. Life was easier then....

Can't return it because I'm way outside the 30 day limit - I kept trying to work with it and even tried to train my brain that this is how it is now. All to no avail. Whose idea was it to use this stupid pedal plate on a hi-hat stand? Sheesh...
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  #10  
Old 07-28-2011, 11:26 AM
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Default Re: Must rant before I fix this situation

And this is why the most complicated piece of hardware I own is my DW5000 pedal (or my old Pearl P-100 Double Pedal). I believe that drum companies have been throwing on overly-complex engineering 'solutions' for too long at the expense of reliability, flexibility and ease of use. It drives me mad!
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Old 07-28-2011, 11:37 AM
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Default Re: Must rant before I fix this situation

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Yeah, back in the early 90s I had a Yamaha 7-series hi-hat stand that I could not destroy. It was awesome. I just see Yamaha hardware all day at Disneyland so I don't need it at home ;)
I understand your feelings on that Bo, but there's no getting away from the fact that the Yamaha stuff is better designed & much better quality than the DW stuff. I own hardware from both companies, & Yamaha is miles ahead. Never had a reliability issue with Yamaha, never. Had a few with DW though, especially casting fractures.
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: Must rant before I fix this situation

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I understand your feelings on that Bo, but there's no getting away from the fact that the Yamaha stuff is better designed & much better quality than the DW stuff. I own hardware from both companies, & Yamaha is miles ahead. Never had a reliability issue with Yamaha, never. Had a few with DW though, especially casting fractures.
Yeah, I agree with you. But to be honest, I've never had a reliability issue with the DW stuff, either. They just do these aggravating engineering things. I love their pedals, but I do not understand the 2-legged hi-hat or why you'd need a plate underneath the hi hat pedal! Thankfully, you can still get a DW bass drum pedal without a plate (the 6000's), but I like the solidity of a plate under the bass pedal. So I'm keeping my DW5000 - right out of the box it's great. The hi-hat issue is solved by going slightly lighter with their 3500 hi hat stand - it's double-braced with slightly smaller tubing, but there's no plate under the pedal - it's a regular radius rod. I found a guy going out of business on the 'bay and he had one brand new in the box for $90 with free shipping. Problem solved!

I just wanted to vent about this apparent over-engineering DW tends to do. So I have a DW three-legged 5500 hi-hat stand for sale if anyone needs one! Practically brand new with the box! It'll go up on the 'bay if nobody here wants it!
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Old 07-28-2011, 01:17 PM
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Default Re: Must rant before I fix this situation

You shouldn't have any problems with the 3500 3 leg version at all.

I have 3 of the 3500TL TWO leg hat stands (one is actually the previous 5000 designation) and they are plenty sturdy. They can take some heavy playing easily.

Yamaha stuff is great, and I never had an issue with the stands I had back in the 80's-90's.

No memory locks though. I find that weird these days.

I don't break anything down but folding the legs, so I want ML's, and the cymbal space adjustment is fantastic on DW stands.
I just fold the legs on my hat stand also, so the plate on mine is fine for just putting in the case.
I do like the side wires on the old 5000 that is on my son's kit.....I just hate the internal spring on that model...it's always something!
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Old 07-28-2011, 01:19 PM
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Default Re: Must rant before I fix this situation

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
I love their pedals, but I do not understand the 2-legged hi-hat or why you'd need a plate underneath the hi hat pedal!
To be fair, the plate (and velcro strips) make the pedal rock solid on carpet floors. No annoying slip that you sometimes get with other pedals.

That said I've had 5000 series hardware for 12 years now and I feel your pain. The bigger issue I had was trying to fit the DW HH stand in my 'Hardcase' hardware box. It's marginally too long when in one piece. This means I have to separate the upper part from the lower just to fit it in the box. Combine this with the drumkey base and I may have lost a couple of days of my life in total setting it up and taking it down!

Never had an issue with the 2 legged stand though. Many a times has it helped in tight situations.
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: Must rant before I fix this situation

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Originally Posted by Stitch Kaboodle View Post
To be fair, the plate (and velcro strips) make the pedal rock solid on carpet floors. No annoying slip that you sometimes get with other pedals.

That said I've had 5000 series hardware for 12 years now and I feel your pain. The bigger issue I had was trying to fit the DW HH stand in my 'Hardcase' hardware box. It's marginally too long when in one piece. This means I have to separate the upper part from the lower just to fit it in the box. Combine this with the drumkey base and I may have lost a couple of days of my life in total setting it up and taking it down!

Never had an issue with the 2 legged stand though. Many a times has it helped in tight situations.
Yep. That's me. I have some old school trap cases, and I break my stuff all the way down when packing. Having to deal with the foot plate on the hi-hat stand just added time to an already lengthy set-up or strike. I'm not into having to use tools to break down or set-up stands (the drum key they supply with the hi hat has to live in the case).

I know lots of people who have the two-legged hi-hats and they love 'em and some are solid. But for me it's a geometry thing. The strongest structure is the triangle, and the tripod stance of a drum stand is very strong. But when you take one side of the triangle away and replace it with a pedal on a plate, you've compromised the triangle. When I attempted the DW5500 two-legged hi-hat years ago, I could never set the stand up completely flat, I had to lean it towards me just a bit to make it rock solid, which I didn't like because I like my hats flat. And there are more times for me when I'm not playing on a rug - what's with all the velcro? I like how DW just assumes you'll be playing on carpeting. There was a time when they put rubber on the bottom of the pedal plates too. Nowadays I peel the velcro off and glue on my own rubber.

I swear, it's like DW is telling you how and where you're gonna be playing. I remember when DW was this little company in El Monte, CA, actually dedicated to solving individual drummer's problems. Now they're telling me I won't have problems if I play like this ;)
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Old 07-28-2011, 09:16 PM
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Default Re: Must rant before I fix this situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder
I swear, it's like DW is telling you how and where you're gonna be playing. I remember when DW was this little company in El Monte, CA, actually dedicated to solving individual drummer's problems. Now they're telling me I won't have problems if I play like this ;)
Man: Doctor, it hurts when I do *this* (Cracks neck to the left, hops on one leg and falls over)

Doctor: Don't do it then.
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Old 07-28-2011, 10:58 PM
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Default Re: Must rant before I fix this situation

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Originally Posted by mediocrefunkybeat View Post
Man: Doctor, it hurts when I do *this* (Cracks neck to the left, hops on one leg and falls over)

Doctor: Don't do it then.
Shhh-ding sir! You're right. My rant has become a whine. I'll stop now. And though it all, I still like the DW hardware. Unfortunately, it's not the top of the line stuff that's sleek and sexy. It's the 3000 and 6000 stuff. Damn ;)
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Old 07-29-2011, 12:40 AM
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Default Re: Must rant before I fix this situation

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Originally Posted by mediocrefunkybeat View Post
And this is why the most complicated piece of hardware I own is my DW5000 pedal (or my old Pearl P-100 Double Pedal). I believe that drum companies have been throwing on overly-complex engineering 'solutions' for too long at the expense of reliability, flexibility and ease of use. It drives me mad!
I completely agree. If it can easily be transported and holds up during a gig it's fine by me.
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Old 07-29-2011, 02:47 AM
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Default Re: Must rant before I fix this situation

Is this really all over an extra minute in set up and break down.?
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Old 07-29-2011, 03:26 AM
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Is this really all over an extra minute in set up and break down.?
Yep. It's not so much the time but the fact that DW has re-defined a wheel that already works. Stupid DW....
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Old 07-29-2011, 03:29 AM
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Default Re: Must rant before I fix this situation

I can relate to this Bo. It's not so much about the extra effort but more about the long term realization after having used so much gear over the years.

I've got a full set of DW9000 gear and it's great but I also bought 11 medium duty PDP stands a long time ago and even though it's nothing special, it doesn't mess with my own sensibilities when it comes to working man's gear.

I went through the same thing with my photo gear. I have a shit load of Matthews stands, grip, booms and gizmos. Great stuff, but sometimes when I go to a shoot, I bring the light weight and cheaper Bogen stuff I've acquired over the years.

I have the DW5000 two leg and it works well for me but I have wondered why they didn't just skip the plate and make it easier.

Sometimes I look in my garage at all the hardware for drumming and photography and think I have lost my mind. I also have this little peeve where I take the logos and stickers off of everything. Doesn't matter what brand. Cymbals too. Can't stand looking at them.

If it isn't the right gear, just get rid of it and get something else.

I should have been a writer and a flute player. Drums and photography have just made my life and endless haul of overweight metal crap.
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Old 07-29-2011, 05:20 AM
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Default Re: Must rant before I fix this situation

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Originally Posted by TTNW View Post
I can relate to this Bo. It's not so much about the extra effort but more about the long term realization after having used so much gear over the years.

I've got a full set of DW9000 gear and it's great but I also bought 11 medium duty PDP stands a long time ago and even though it's nothing special, it doesn't mess with my own sensibilities when it comes to working man's gear.

I went through the same thing with my photo gear. I have a shit load of Matthews stands, grip, booms and gizmos. Great stuff, but sometimes when I go to a shoot, I bring the light weight and cheaper Bogen stuff I've acquired over the years.

I have the DW5000 two leg and it works well for me but I have wondered why they didn't just skip the plate and make it easier.

Sometimes I look in my garage at all the hardware for drumming and photography and think I have lost my mind. I also have this little peeve where I take the logos and stickers off of everything. Doesn't matter what brand. Cymbals too. Can't stand looking at them.

If it isn't the right gear, just get rid of it and get something else.

I should have been a writer and a flute player. Drums and photography have just made my life and endless haul of overweight metal crap.
Wow. Ain't that my life too! But although I've invested heavily in my photographic gear, I didn't go overboard. I have my AlienBees lights for a total of three and a few muslins, but everything about my photo "career" streamlining has been because of this drumming-gear situation. I only have two cameras and three lenses and two Speedlights, plus my other studio lighting, but thankfully, that's it. (I wish I could say the two cameras were Leica M9's, but alas, I can't).

You're right about the drum stuff though. Since I just purchased the DW 3500 hi hat, I'm debating getting rid of all the heavy stuff and replacing it with the 3000-series stuff. I mean, I only need an additional snare stand and two straight cymbal stands (I've gotten back into just using a crash and a ride, too). I already have my DW 5000 Delta foot pedal and my old DW throne. It crossed my mind to go back to the flat-based stand stuff and truly go light but since I've been playing alot of outside gigs, I need some tripod leg action just for the stability should the winds start blowing. I think it'll be spring-cleaning time for the hardware in late summer!
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