Tom Mount vs No Tom Mount (Kick)

flicky · #1 07-21-2011, 10:23 PM

Hey fellow drummers, Just looking for your opinions on this subject.
I read and hear lots of info about how Tom Mounts mounted to a kick are bad for the sound,But yet people with kicks with no mounts put blankets or what ever they like to use in them. I don't get it. Wouldn't putting blankets or what ever in the (mountless) kick defeat the purpose? Other than the pressure that's put on the shell from the toms I prefer Kicks with mounts. Some of the greatest sounding kits include kicks with mounts on them Plus the weight of the tom or toms keeps the kick planted. I've tried many mountless kicks and no matter what I tried they still had some bounce to them. I like my kicks planted and solid...lol

What do you think?

Thanks!

caddywumpus · #2 07-21-2011, 11:02 PM

I like the placement options that mounting the tom on a cymbal stand provides. It allows me to place the tom where my body naturally wants to play it instead of dealing with the ergonomically-nightmarish limited options that mounting the tom on the bass drum provides. Also, I notice more "boom" from the bass drum when the tom is not mounted on it, and for the record: I DO NOT put muffling in my bass drums, because I know how to tune them, and I like them to sound like bass drums.

flicky · #3 07-21-2011, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caddywumpus

I DO NOT put muffling in my bass drums, because I know how to tune them, and I like them to sound like bass drums.

I know how to tune also, but I guess it depends on what sound you like. I don't think by using blankets means you can't tune...lol

caddywumpus · #4 07-21-2011, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flicky

I know how to tune also, but I guess it depends on what sound you like. I don't think by using blankets means you can't tune...lol

I wasn't talking about anyone specifically. I've noticed that often times people use blanket/pillows as a form of tuning, or a substitute for it. With tuning, you can get more sounds than you think out of a bass drum. Most times, the sound that people are trying to get by stuffing muffling in their bass drum can be achieved by just tuning the heads, or using different heads, or using felt strips, or using an external dampener, or...???

Bertram · #5 07-22-2011, 02:35 AM

I've never tried tom mounts on cymbal stands. But at the moment i fell my toms are nearly touching the bass drum, in the position i like to play them in. And it is annoying.
I think it's easier to place them if it were another mounting system? - It's a 22 bass, if it was a 20 i might be able to do it easier :)

#6 07-22-2011, 02:50 AM

Just to say to Caddywumpus. I actually like mounting my toms on the bass drum. It cuts down on the hardware and the placement options are fine to me. Putting toms on cymbal stands can cause stability issues in my experience and it's extra fuss. I don't think I could ever buy a virgin kick because I still want the option to mount on the bass drum. Without the option, I would feel limited.

tbdd · #7 07-22-2011, 03:06 AM

my rack is on a stand of its own,it does get a little bit tedious but it is sturdy how ever cant wait till I can afford a new snare stand for it!

flicky · #8 07-22-2011, 03:43 AM

I can see how toms mounted on a stand can have it's advantages for placement but do you guys with naked kicks have problems with bounce? I've found the deeper shell you go with the more stable a naked kick is but still doesn't feel planted. Maybe i'm too picky..lol

caddywumpus · #9 07-22-2011, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mediocrefunkybeat

Just to say to Caddywumpus. I actually like mounting my toms on the bass drum. It cuts down on the hardware and the placement options are fine to me. Putting toms on cymbal stands can cause stability issues in my experience and it's extra fuss. I don't think I could ever buy a virgin kick because I still want the option to mount on the bass drum. Without the option, I would feel limited.

Cool. I'm glad that works for you. In my case, with the bass drums I use:

DW: virgin. No option for bass drum mounting.
Ludwig #1: the Ludwig tom mount takes up more space than the clamp-on tom mount
Ludwig #2: same story as Ludwig #1
Gretsch: has a rail, but the piece of hardware on it is notorious for snapping...I'm not going to take that chance. I tune this tom high, so I put it in a snare stand.

I've always felt as if the bass drum mounted tom(s) ended up being too close to me. I like my snare to be almost butting up against the bass drum hoop. With the bass drum tom mounting systems I own and ones I have used, this puts the rack tom either touching/hovering over the snare or too far to the side when adjusted back. I like the idea that I've seen on DW and Mapex kits where you can adjust a sliding mechanism that slides the bass drum mounted tom mount forward and back. I would totally use one of those if I had one, if it didn't mute the bass drum at all, but for now, what I've got going on works STELLAR both functionally and sound-wise. Also, I've never had a tipping problem, and I use lightweight single-braced stands to mount my toms/cymbals on. Check out the thread on my Ludwig kit (in my signature...) if you haven't already. You'll see what I mean...

caddywumpus · #10 07-22-2011, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flicky

I can see how toms mounted on a stand can have it's advantages for placement but do you guys with naked kicks have problems with bounce? I've found the deeper shell you go with the more stable a naked kick is but still doesn't feel planted. Maybe i'm too picky..lol

I have no problems with bounce, even when I play the drum like I'm trying to punch a hole through the head with the beater. I bring a rug for my set, though, so that's probably why...

#11 07-22-2011, 03:55 AM

I've seen your kit before and I was wondering if you were going to mention your stands. I'm a lightweight user too (when practical, I've accumulated far too much hardware!) and I've had problems. Maybe it's the properties of my tom mounts (Yamaha style) that are causing the issues I've had with stands. I tend to actually have more luck with a pair of toms on a three-holder on a stand because it distributes the mass over two legs however you do it.

I like my toms close, mind and one of my kits has significant 'snare-rash' on the high tom.

I'm not really sold on the Mapex hardware. It works great but I just don't like the look of it. Sonor made 'big hardware' look classy on the Designer series, but I'm not convinced that the Mapex hardware doesn't just look a bit tacky.

I might actually be one of the few people who wants a rail mount - certainly on my smaller kit. Maybe I'm crazy.

flicky · #12 07-22-2011, 03:57 AM

Quote:

I like the idea that I've seen on DW and Mapex kits where you can adjust a sliding mechanism that slides the bass drum mounted tom mount forward and back.

Me too! I'd love to have one of those.

bolweevil · #13 07-22-2011, 03:58 AM

I have a 'born again' virgin kick drum: I removed the tom mount hardware, slapped my old band's bumper sticker over the hole, and clamped the tom mount on my rack. It works for me! (I suppose the 'rack or no-rack' thing is reserved for another thread!)

flicky · #14 07-22-2011, 04:05 AM

I like the rack idea too but when the kick is mounted to it..lol

IDDrummer · #15 07-22-2011, 04:20 AM

I prefer to mount toms on a cymbal stand for the same reasons as Caddywumpus. The clamp set-up I use is no more bulky or difficult to set up than the bass drum mount.

As far as bass drum bounce - I haven't experienced this, on two sizes of bass drum. Proper leveling, angle of spurs, use of the spikes on both the pedal and the spurs, and the use of a drum rug probably all contribute to the lack of bounce.

Re: the sound of a virgin kick vs a bass drum mount. I have this opinion: there IS a difference, but it is minimal, and the way most people muffle I think it matters little. My old kit had a bass drum mount, but I rarely used it, strictly because of the positioning issue. I found, on those occasions when I mounted toms on the bass drum, that there really is less resonance from the bass. For the record, I generally muffle with felt strips, occasionally a SMALL pillow against the batter head, but I like a fairly lively bass drum in general.

flicky · #16 07-22-2011, 04:34 AM

I'm very anal about my kick being level..lol Everything is set up properly but it happens when doing single foot triplets or double pedal work. Maybe it's the rugs I was using at the time.

audiotech · #17 07-22-2011, 05:09 AM

I like both about equally. Three of my kits have tom mounts on the bass drum and two I have the rack toms mounted to cymbal stands. I never have problems with drums bouncing around. In fact, that's the reason that any drum larger than 13" in diameter gets placed on legs, just to get rid of any bounce that might be an issue with unstable 14" and 16" drums. After much experimentation, I find no real reason sonically to choose one mounting system over the other. I can get my bass drum mounted toms in exactly the positions I require, just as I can with the cymbals stand mounted drums. Some using 24" bass drums and larger might have some positioning problems when mounting toms to the bass drum, especially if they are deep toms.

I too don't use any type of blankets inside my bass drums. On one kit I use felt strips and on all others I use an Evans EQ4 batter head which is a 1 ply head with a small internal ring, that's it, the rest is all up to their tuning.

Dennis

bobdadruma · #18 07-22-2011, 05:20 AM

I have kits with and without mounts.
I don't get what all the talk is about.
I don't have a problem with either tom mount system.
I can't really tell the difference between virgin and non virgin bass drums.
I can't really tell the difference between the sound of toms with or without suspension mounts.

caddywumpus · #19 07-22-2011, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mediocrefunkybeat

I might actually be one of the few people who wants a rail mount - certainly on my smaller kit. Maybe I'm crazy.

You ARE crazy!

Actually, I like the rail mount on my Gretsch. I use it all the time...AS A HANDLE!!! :D

john gerrard · #20 07-22-2011, 01:41 PM

Just bought a Gretsch Renown kit with a virgin kick and as of now I'm debating on how I want to mount my toms. I've tried both ways and can't tell any difference in sound. I do like the convience of the kick mounted toms but hate to take a drill to the virgin kick to attach the mounting system. Time will tell. John

uniin · #21 07-22-2011, 03:35 PM

i have a virgin kick... i just prefer the look and the resonance... however for my rough and ready gigging kit i like having a non-virgin kit because if i'm driving 2 hrs to a gig i really can't be arsed spending the extra 40 seconds setting up... (seriously)

Odd-Arne Oseberg · #22 07-22-2011, 03:53 PM

I put the toms on my cymbal stands simply because of placement issues. I'm sure there are BD mounts that would work for me, but what I do now also works really well. I got rather long legs compared to my upper body, so I want to get the bassdrum a little forward and the toms as close as possible.

AJ3000 · #23 07-22-2011, 04:48 PM

I prefer a virgin kick. Partially because of the look of it (not a fan visually of kick mounted Tom holders), but more over I like that I can put my toms likerally anywhere I want. If I want them offset to the left, or really forward over the kick, I can without compromise. I have always found mounted toms to be limiting in the positioning....