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  #1  
Old 05-25-2014, 08:31 AM
Bonzodownunder Bonzodownunder is offline
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Default 24" ride with 20" kick drummers.

Has anyone on here ever heard of/know a drummer(s),
That play both a 20" kick&24" ride?.
Specifically blues&country drummers,
My band LOVES my mint 24" 60s Paiste "white label" Giant Beat ride but CANT hear my Sleishman 20" kick (kick's unmiked).Thinking of matching a 26" kick with my 24"ride ,
Just wondering what the general consensus is?.
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  #2  
Old 05-25-2014, 01:44 PM
wildbill wildbill is offline
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Default Re: 24" ride with 20" kick drummers.

Can the band hear your toms?

Are your toms smaller than 20" diameter?

Maybe try a wood beater or different head setup first.
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  #3  
Old 05-25-2014, 03:40 PM
Bonzodownunder Bonzodownunder is offline
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Default Re: 24" ride with 20" kick drummers.

Toms are 12" rack&suspended "floor tom" ,
Yeah band can hear toms as i tune the 12 high&14 low (LPBW)& there Sleishman so free floating so WILL cut thru more then convential drums! :)
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  #4  
Old 05-25-2014, 03:52 PM
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evolving_machine evolving_machine is offline
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Default Re: 24" ride with 20" kick drummers.

The combination of a large 24" ride cymbal and a 20" bass drum does not seem to be unusual. Many of the drummers during the 60's and early 70's used 20" bass drums. During the 50's bebop era many drummers used smaller 18" bass drums. Supposedly the 18" bass drum was able to fit into the trunk of a New York City Checker cab.

The larger 24" ride cymbal was also popular throughout the 60's and 70's. To find a specific drummer who had that combination, it would just be a matter of research.

I believe during that era, the larger bass drums were the unusual set up, such as John Bonham's set up using a 26" bass and a 24" ride. Ginger baker used 20" bass drums for the main, and a 22" bass drum for the alternate, but he used a 22" ride cymbal. I found a reference where Steve Smith used a 20" bass drum and a 24" ride in his older setup.

http://www.vitalinformation.com/news...alk/setup1.htm

However, your question infers that your band mates can not hear your Sleishman bass drum would lead me to think of tuning or head choices, or the beater as wildbill suggested. Also acoustics of the room or a wooden board on the floor in front of the bass drum as a reflective surface, or possibly using a microphone. Those Sleshman drums seem like really nice drums, I have never played them though, how much more volume do you expect to get from a larger bass drum, and how would the shell material compare to the Sleishman bass drum materials?

There seems to be other things to consider and try before you scrap the 20" bass drum.
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  #5  
Old 05-25-2014, 05:00 PM
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evolving_machine evolving_machine is offline
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Default Re: 24" ride with 20" kick drummers.

I did a little more investigation into the Sleishman drum system and am questioning whether or not, that maybe your problem now. Because you can only the tune the drums one way. Both the batter and the resonant head must have the same tension from the rods. The drum heads tuned identical have a nice sound to them, it is constructive interference where the frequencies of the top and bottom are identical and they add to the sound of the drum because they are both vibrating the same.

In their video they show a bass drum with a port. I do not understand how that drum is tuned. It means both heads have the same tension and yet because of the port, one head will not be the same. The diaphragm movement with a port does not move the same as the diaphragm without a port. Now the constructive interference will not work, and the two heads are not the same frequency any longer.

With a normal lug drum system, you can tighten a lug in one area say 12 o'clock and find that the tension on the head 180 degrees away at 6 o'clock is also effected with the tuning. With a port, what happens? Does the lug 180 degrees away also tighten if it is through a port? I believe that with the reinforcement ring at the port, the tension is then distributed to other lugs and not the lug directly opposite the 12 o'clock lug.

Well, with the uniform tension on the batter and resonant rods, you now add another layer of complication to the tuning, you have to now tighten that lug on the batter at 12 o'clock the lug at 6 o'clock is effected as well as the lugs on resonant heads. But, you have that hole in the bass port and now the two heads are not capable of being tuned to the same pitch any longer. I believe that even if you put a muffler on the batter head across the lugs between 1 & 2 o'clock to the lugs between 4 & 5 o'clock you can not tune both heads to the same pitch any longer and this defeats the purpose of the uniform tension system.

I think with the Sleishman system, you are limited in the way you tune the bass drum.

I wonder how this effects the snare drum when you engage the snare wires on the resonant head, and what happens if you put a muffler on the batter heads. I kind of like the sound for the toms though, but question whether this is good for snares and bass drums.
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  #6  
Old 06-14-2014, 06:02 AM
mkelley mkelley is offline
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Default Re: 24" ride with 20" kick drummers.

I played a 24 or a 22 with a 20 bass and liked how it fit in. 24's were both Giant Beats.
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  #7  
Old 06-14-2014, 06:49 AM
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caddywumpus caddywumpus is offline
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Default Re: 24" ride with 20" kick drummers.

My main setup consists of a 20x14 bass drum and a 24" K Light Ride. While that ride isn't necessarily the loudest, neither is a 20" bass drum always quiet. It depends on heads, tuning, bass drum beater, and playing, of course...
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  #8  
Old 06-14-2014, 08:51 AM
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Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
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Default Re: 24" ride with 20" kick drummers.

Accentuate the effect by using a 26" ride with a 18" bass drum ;)
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  #9  
Old 06-14-2014, 01:02 PM
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makinao makinao is offline
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Default Re: 24" ride with 20" kick drummers.

How is your kick muffled?
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  #10  
Old 06-14-2014, 02:50 PM
GetAgrippa GetAgrippa is offline
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Default Re: 24" ride with 20" kick drummers.

I have an old 24in Zildjian and play with a 16 in kick. The kick cuts through nicely. If you have your toms tuned high this will blend well too.
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  #11  
Old 06-14-2014, 03:11 PM
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GeoB GeoB is offline
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Default Re: 24" ride with 20" kick drummers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzodownunder View Post
Has anyone on here ever heard of/know a drummer(s),
That play both a 20" kick&24" ride?.
Specifically blues&country drummers,
My band LOVES my mint 24" 60s Paiste "white label" Giant Beat ride but CANT hear my Sleishman 20" kick (kick's unmiked).Thinking of matching a 26" kick with my 24"ride ,
Just wondering what the general consensus is?.
What you hear at the kit is not what is being heard offstage. I play with hearing protection which knocks off a lot of overtones and frequency wash... and I think that the hearing protection gives me better feedback on the drum sound.
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  #12  
Old 06-15-2014, 02:08 AM
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bobdadruma bobdadruma is offline
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Default Re: 24" ride with 20" kick drummers.

To make my 14x20 BD stand out I use a clear PS3 for batter with a Smooth White Amb in front. I use an Evans EQ Pillow inside. I let the pillow touch both heads with more of the pillow on the batter side. I tune the batter to JAW and the resonate head 1/2 turn tighter.
It works for me. My 20 kicks it out with no problamo :) And if that doesn't work I tape a brick to the top of my right shoe :)
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  #13  
Old 06-15-2014, 07:31 AM
Bonzodownunder Bonzodownunder is offline
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Default Re: 24" ride with 20" kick drummers.

Well this thread to me personally at least is now irrevelant/redundant as I've been made redundant by the band 3/4 of the way to rehearsal by way of phone call from "guitarist/singer" who ALWAYS sung flat&off key anyway BUT I NEVER said this to his face!.I've now due to being put under both duress&pressure by afore mentioned band a Yamaha 7000 26" kick 13" Corder rack tom&14x14" 70s COW Ludwig B/O badge floor tom.I'm now looking for above brands 14 16 &18" toms&26" kick, &now looking for a gig with FAR&MUCH better human beings&guitarist/singer!.They(band) lied to me set me up DIDN'T pay me for a paid gig backstabbed&used me! :(.
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  #14  
Old 06-15-2014, 07:11 PM
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opentune opentune is online now
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Default Re: 24" ride with 20" kick drummers.

Dude, sorry but the English in the last post was completely unintelligible. So...I am guessing they sacked you and got a mix kit...or?

If so, pick up the pieces and move on. Sounds like you didn't like the singer anyway. Enjoy yoru 20 inch BD and 24 ride in another band.

Another theme that always comes on here - one can be much happier if you voice your displeasure with singing, time keeping...etc while in the band, not after it.
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  #15  
Old 06-16-2014, 03:40 AM
Bonzodownunder Bonzodownunder is offline
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Default Re: 24" ride with 20" kick drummers.

What do you mean my English's "unintelligible" ?, yes i got sacked by the guitarist/ "singer" WHO I DID like personally then but certainly NOT NOW!.Yes i did get a mixed kit of Corder Ludwig&Yamaha with Pearl steel free floating 6.5.I will say though that the guitarist/"singer" actaully thanked me &wished me well which's more then i can say for the other band members whose silence's deafening! :(.
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