DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Gear > Heads and Sticks

Heads and Sticks Discuss Heads and Sticks

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-11-2011, 12:31 AM
daredrummer's Avatar
daredrummer daredrummer is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,375
Default Snare head for brushes: renaissance vs. fiberskyn 3 vs. skyntone vs J1

So I need to get a nice snare head for brushes, and I haven't played any mentioned in the thread title so I needed some help from those who have used them.

I want something that like I said, works very well with brushes. Also a long sustain, a fair bit of volume (it has to be heard with amplified acoustic guitars), and a mid to high range tone. Obviously a nice distinctive, textured, sound when circling the drum, and a nice soft crack when hit on the rim near the lower part of the brush. Also, although I'd like it to work in a jazz setting, this head will mostly be used in a light/oldies rock situation, where I need to keep the volume down.

I only listed the ones that I know about in the thread title, the remo renaissance, skyntone, fiberskyn 3, and the evans j1. Recommendations of these or other options are appreciated!
__________________
"Nowadays you could find a plumber, put him in a studio and make him sound good." ~John Robinson

Last edited by daredrummer; 07-11-2011 at 05:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-11-2011, 09:12 AM
DaDrumBum1's Avatar
DaDrumBum1 DaDrumBum1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 11
Default Re: Snare head for brushes: renaissance vs. fiberskyn 3 vs. skyntone vs J1

So this is just my experience. J1 is really thin, its very open but very thin I didn't like it, its not very durable. Closer to diplomat in weight. Also tried the skyntone, I liked it at first but it kept on stretching and I had to keep on cranking it more than a normal snare head. So no go for me on that one.

Honestly you can do any 1ply or 2ply coated and that will sound fine for brush work. If you get a fiberskin that will be a little bit softer than a coated head. If you really want a loud coated head, I believe the Aquarian Texture Coated head is one of the thickest coated ones I have seen.

Also for volume you can get brushes that are inherently louder or softer. Regal Tip Jeff Hamilton, Vic Firth Jazz Brush, and Vic Firth Live Wires are examples of louder brushes.

Vater Standard Wire Brush and Vic Firth Hearitige Brushes are made from thinner gauge wire and not as loud.

In the end you just gotta try things out see what works. I suggest going with a one ply coated head. Single ply coated heads have worked well for me in many situations from Jazz to Funk and rock. Anyways hope my advice was helpful and you find what you are looking for.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-11-2011, 09:45 AM
jt.mcrae's Avatar
jt.mcrae jt.mcrae is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 202
Default Re: Snare head for brushes: renaissance vs. fiberskyn 3 vs. skyntone vs J1

Like said above any basic 1 or 2 ply coated head should do it. What about a Remo Coated Ambassador? I know it's not one you posted in the title but it seems to cover all the bases you need
- works well with brushes
- long sustain
- mid to high tone
- fair it of volume- though it it is still sensitive to the quiet stuff you need

Some people say that Evans' coating is more durable than Remo's so maybe you want to try their G1. Pretty much exactly the same head, just with different branding :)
Hope that helps
Jackson
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-11-2011, 04:38 PM
daredrummer's Avatar
daredrummer daredrummer is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,375
Default Re: Snare head for brushes: renaissance vs. fiberskyn 3 vs. skyntone vs J1

What would be the difference's between a standard coated ambassador and a renaissance or FS3 ambassador?

I've tried the brushes on a few coated heads now, and haven't really got good sound yet. (It might be because they all have muffling though...)
__________________
"Nowadays you could find a plumber, put him in a studio and make him sound good." ~John Robinson
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-11-2011, 07:24 PM
Shedboyxx's Avatar
Shedboyxx Shedboyxx is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Woodland Hills, CA
Posts: 694
Default Re: Snare head for brushes: renaissance vs. fiberskyn 3 vs. skyntone vs J1

Quote:
Originally Posted by daredrummer View Post
What would be the difference's between a standard coated ambassador and a renaissance or FS3 ambassador?

I've tried the brushes on a few coated heads now, and haven't really got good sound yet. (It might be because they all have muffling though...)
I've tried all the heads mentioned in this thread so far except for Renaissance. I keep coming back to 1-ply coated heads (Evans G1, Aquarian Satin Texture coated, Remo Ambassador).

The 'brush friendly' heads sound great with brushes right out of the box. My main issue is that they don't work for me when I use sticks in how they sound.

If I did an all brush gig AND maintained a brushes only snare drum, I'd probably consider the Fiberskyn. It just doesn't have the tone and attack I enjoy from coated heads when I play with sticks. The Fiberskyns also have the infamous bubbling or delamintaion issue that comes up.

As far as coated heads are concerned, I find myself using a light grit sandpaper to sand them down when I first get them, especially the outer edges that don't get as much action. It's a careful balance as you don't want to lose too much of the grit. I usually sand a bit and then spend a lot of time playing brushes at home on that snare before it goes out on a gig. I bought a G1 for cheap last year and put it on my Acrolite. The coating on that head as well as a recent Ambassador I tried needed much less sanding than the Aquarian coated heads. That by the way, is a feather in Aquarian's cap. Their heads and coating last the longest of any heads I've used.


I also would recommend that you not dampen a head you're playing brushes on (unless in the studio, if needed). Steve Smith makes a point in the Art of Playing Brushes DVD that playing brushes on a drum is like playing with your hands. There are open tones controlled by the amount of brush contact that change while playing. Dampening a drum takes away the possibility of expressiveness and different articulations.I'd get a wide open sounding head an maybe apply a very small amount of strategically placed moon gel or tape - but no more.

HTH

Jim
__________________
"Time...to Unpimp......Ze Auto ....huuuuuh"

Jim Martin Music
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-11-2011, 07:50 PM
EvansSpecialist EvansSpecialist is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 546
Default Re: Snare head for brushes: renaissance vs. fiberskyn 3 vs. skyntone vs J1

Any of the Evans single-ply coated/etched heads would make great brush heads. One that we didn't expect to catch on with brush players but seems to be receiving rave reviews is the Hybrid Coated head: http://store.daddario.com/category/148320/Hybrid

Check out this video with Evans endorsee Florian Alexandru Zorn playing the Hybrid w/brushes:
http://www.youtube.com/user/FlorianA.../3/NQGwj5ZWKa4

You can also hear him playing coated G1's on the toms. Though the cost of a Hybrid snare head is ~3x as much as a standard snare head, the texture will outlive any other coated head many times over with brushes.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-11-2011, 08:46 PM
brady's Avatar
brady brady is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,327
Default Re: Snare head for brushes: renaissance vs. fiberskyn 3 vs. skyntone vs J1

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt.mcrae View Post
Like said above any basic 1 or 2 ply coated head should do it. What about a Remo Coated Ambassador? I know it's not one you posted in the title but it seems to cover all the bases you need
- works well with brushes
- long sustain
- mid to high tone
- fair it of volume- though it it is still sensitive to the quiet stuff you need

Some people say that Evans' coating is more durable than Remo's so maybe you want to try their G1. Pretty much exactly the same head, just with different branding :)
Hope that helps
Jackson
Another vote for the Aquarian Modern Vintage. Great sounding head with a tough coating that lasts an extremely long time.

In my experience, between sticks and brushes, an Ambassador's coating will be worn in a couple weeks. The Fiberskyns are even worse, with the bubbling issue.

The few Evans heads I've played seemed really nice. I believe their coating lasts a while too.

EvansSpecialist - Do you recommend any of the Strata heads for brushes? I thought I had heard they worked well with brushes and were made to replicate calfskin.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-11-2011, 09:07 PM
Skulmoski's Avatar
Skulmoski Skulmoski is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Abu Dhabi
Posts: 1,307
Default Re: Snare head for brushes: renaissance vs. fiberskyn 3 vs. skyntone vs J1

I currently have Evans G1 and I am happy with this head.

Have you investigated calfskin heads? Here is a thread you might find interesting:
http://www.cymbalholic.com/forums/sh...highlight=calf

Check out these calfskin drum head makers:

Earthtone
http://www.earthtoneheads.com/

or

Stern
http://www.sterntanning.com/percussion.htm

Take care

GJS
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-12-2011, 10:51 AM
anzi anzi is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 48
Default Re: Snare head for brushes: renaissance vs. fiberskyn 3 vs. skyntone vs J1

Check out this video with Evans endorsee Florian Alexandru Zorn playing the Hybrid w/brushes:
http://www.youtube.com/user/FlorianA.../3/NQGwj5ZWKa4

Sounds great! How thick is that hybrid head? Many heads sound great, but I just seem to like the feel of a standard 10mil head.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-12-2011, 03:33 PM
daredrummer's Avatar
daredrummer daredrummer is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,375
Default Re: Snare head for brushes: renaissance vs. fiberskyn 3 vs. skyntone vs J1

Quote:
Originally Posted by anzi View Post
Check out this video with Evans endorsee Florian Alexandru Zorn playing the Hybrid w/brushes:
http://www.youtube.com/user/FlorianA.../3/NQGwj5ZWKa4

Sounds great! How thick is that hybrid head? Many heads sound great, but I just seem to like the feel of a standard 10mil head.
The hybrid is actually made with some fiber material, not the standard mylar film.

It's a shame it's not made in 12", I would love to try it out on my incoming musashi snare.
__________________
"Nowadays you could find a plumber, put him in a studio and make him sound good." ~John Robinson
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-12-2011, 06:48 PM
double_G's Avatar
double_G double_G is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 557
Default Re: Snare head for brushes: renaissance vs. fiberskyn 3 vs. skyntone vs J1

yes, very personal & DaDrumBum1 is on the money w/ regard to certain brush brands being louder. i think Jeff Hamilton's are the loudest & i use them almost exclusively. also very "snappy" wire & i really like the response. going from the Vic Firth (purple) brushes the first time, they seemed incredibly LOUD. but my next gig was terrible acoustic & i really needed them, was hooked from then on. still like my Vic Firths & used them 100% in a small theater gig for "guys & dolls" where mics carried the sound. they have a darker more vintage sound/slap i like sometimes.

on the heads, i am due to try the Evans J1s & Remo Renaissance but haven't seen one yet.

my main brush head is a wide open Remo Diplomat (all toms as well) & i LOVE them !

i tried out fitting my entire kit w/ Fiberskyn 3s late last year & really did not like them except for the BD resonant (there is a mostly negative review on DW by me). there was not enough "coating" on them to make a decent brush sound for me...just too smooth. also too muffled / muted for me. but i do like the tone & may put them on my Yamaha kit. however, screwing around trying to remove the logo from one, i found that sanding them really helps things out w/ the brush sound - dont know how viable this method is long-term.

i wish there was a Fiberskyn option that was thinner than Diplomat (F3 Dips are about the same thickness as normal Ambassadors if not a bit thicker) & a "Snare Fiberskyn" with simulated calf skin roughness for a coating, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-13-2011, 03:28 AM
jodgey4's Avatar
jodgey4 jodgey4 is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: TX
Posts: 902
Default Re: Snare head for brushes: renaissance vs. fiberskyn 3 vs. skyntone vs J1

I say Aquarian Modern Vintage, the Jack Dejohnette which has the thickest coating, or those Earthtones that my teacher loves.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-14-2011, 11:03 AM
timmdrum's Avatar
timmdrum timmdrum is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wilson, NC
Posts: 732
Default Re: Snare head for brushes: renaissance vs. fiberskyn 3 vs. skyntone vs J1

I use Renaissance Emperors nearly exclusively on snare drums. (I'd try the Evans J1 but they don't make it in 2 ply.) With sticks, they sound identical to coated Emp's, and just slightly less... uh, swish-y with brushes, but still good enough for my limited needs. If I played in a jazz group I'd probably use a coated Emp or G1.

My only exception to the Ren Emp's is an Aquarian Hi-Energy that I use for quieter gigs. It's the only significantly self-muffled head that still gives a great tone, IMO. Ironic that I use it for quieter gigs when I think it's meant for heavy hitters, but it works for me.
__________________
My player site
My instructor site
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-15-2011, 10:11 AM
rgvjazz rgvjazz is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 10
Default Re: Snare head for brushes: renaissance vs. fiberskyn 3 vs. skyntone vs J1

couple suggestions, dont muffle the snare unless you really want that closed sound. if you muffle it you wont let the drum speak as easy as it would naturally.

i also would say consider most of the evans coated heads. i have used a variety of them and i have to say the way they coat the head has a good texture for brushes. i as well recommend the Hamilton brushes. watching him play live with those things is insane!!

i would stay away from the J1 because the coating isnt as gritty as it is on their other heads so the brushes slide a lot more and you dont get that classic brush swirl sound.

i personally use the fiberskyns and really love the warm sound. i get a really good brush sound but i could see where they cant take the normal wear and tear of general playing.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-15-2011, 01:07 PM
Cameo's Avatar
Cameo Cameo is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,004
Default Re: Snare head for brushes: renaissance vs. fiberskyn 3 vs. skyntone vs J1

One of my friends, an old jazz drummer, is using Aquarian's Vintage Medium heads.
They sounded great from the audience.
__________________
nordquisthastlindh.se - web design & development
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-19-2011, 07:25 PM
EvansSpecialist EvansSpecialist is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 546
Default Re: Snare head for brushes: renaissance vs. fiberskyn 3 vs. skyntone vs J1

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgvjazz View Post
i would stay away from the J1 because the coating isnt as gritty as it is on their other heads so the brushes slide a lot more and you dont get that classic brush swirl sound.
I just want to clear up that the J1's are etched (sand blasted) not coated. You'll still get plenty of brush sound though. We just had Ed Soph (Univ. North Texas) in to shoot some brush lesson videos and he was using J1's on snare and toms. The texture was perfect. The videos should be up within the next week or so.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com