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  #1  
Old 07-06-2011, 12:02 PM
AJ3000 AJ3000 is offline
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Default New iron cobras = useless tama....

Just a rant really.

6 week old cobra rolling glide double. Spring breaks at last nights gig. Shop says tama won't replace under warranty and tama won't talk to me.

For the money these are I'm not impressed. Anyone else had similar?
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  #2  
Old 07-06-2011, 12:56 PM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

are you putting max tension on your springs, and burying the beater into your bass drum (thus creating a lot more tension on your spring)?

if so fix your technique, if not so unlucky bud. i think they're like $5 for new springs though
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Springs shouldn't be covered by any kind of warranty. Just as beaters and drum sticks aren't covered. And they're cheap enough that you should've had spares. My list of spares I keep with the kit are beaters, hi-hat clutches, springs and S-hooks, snare wire - make up a little toolbox with those parts and keep it in the car everytime you go out for a gig.

I doubt there's anything wrong with the pedal.
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  #4  
Old 07-06-2011, 11:10 PM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Springs shouldn't be covered by any kind of warranty. Just as beaters and drum sticks aren't covered. And they're cheap enough that you should've had spares. My list of spares I keep with the kit are beaters, hi-hat clutches, springs and S-hooks, snare wire - make up a little toolbox with those parts and keep it in the car everytime you go out for a gig.

I doubt there's anything wrong with the pedal.
This is an excellent idea.

I actually have one of those organizer containers that has several compartments in it full of random drum kit bits and pieces.
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  #5  
Old 07-07-2011, 12:58 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

I always have an extra pedal spring as well as an extra snare drum with me when I gig.
Those are the only two things that I have ever had a problem with in the past.
I carry a cheap 13 inch metal snare with me that came with my Tama Stagestar kit as a quick back up.
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  #6  
Old 07-07-2011, 03:13 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

I even take a spare bass drum head now. Broke off the beater an stuck the rod through the head. Lots of duct tape finished that gig, but sounded horrible. Extra parts are really cheap insurance.
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  #7  
Old 07-09-2011, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

I'll agree that Tama is not out of line here. If you need something to do a gig have a spare or a way to fix it.

Spares I carry: springs, sticks, beaters, snare and bass heads, rods, screws, clutch, and if it's a paying gig, extra snare. You don't want to go through a bass drum head during the first set of a wedding.

Oh yeah, DUCT TAPE!
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  #8  
Old 07-09-2011, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDDrummer View Post
I even take a spare bass drum head now. Broke off the beater an stuck the rod through the head. Lots of duct tape finished that gig, but sounded horrible. Extra parts are really cheap insurance.
8 x 11 clear plastic laminating sheets (the kind w/ a backing sheet of paper w/ sticky stuff on one side of the laminating sheets) is a great quick fix that sounds better than tape. I keep a sheet at arms reach. If I tear a head, I peel off the backing sheet and slap the sticky side on the tear. It the tear is big I'll use another sheet or 2. I'm up and running in about 30 seconds. Yes it's not the sound you get w/ an unbroken head but it's a great fix nonetheless that will get you through the night, or until you can change heads.
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  #9  
Old 07-09-2011, 08:12 PM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
8 x 11 clear plastic laminating sheets (the kind w/ a backing sheet of paper w/ sticky stuff on one side of the laminating sheets) is a great quick fix that sounds better than tape. I keep a sheet at arms reach. If I tear a head, I peel off the backing sheet and slap the sticky side on the tear. It the tear is big I'll use another sheet or 2. I'm up and running in about 30 seconds. Yes it's not the sound you get w/ an unbroken head but it's a great fix nonetheless that will get you through the night, or until you can change heads.
Read this advice before, i still think its an awesome suggestion.

Also depending on where the spring breaks, i carry a set of small pliers so i can re bend a hook into the spring, it does mess with yoru tension but can come in handy in a pinch.
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  #10  
Old 07-09-2011, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

I am surprised to notice that bass drum heads break for so many people.
I have never gone through a bass drum head.
I use two ply heads for hard play.
I always use a protector.
I hardly ever replace my bass drum heads. I keep them for years.
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  #11  
Old 07-13-2011, 11:07 PM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

You can buy a new spring for around 5 bucks,or you can go to a well stocked hardware store,bring your old spring with you,and match it up,the main thing to look out for is to make sure that that the hook part on either end of the spring are lined up with each other,sometimes one hook will be from 12 to 6 oclock,while the other will 3 to 9 and that can make the spring twist or bind a little but when installed.They cost closer to two dollars.
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  #12  
Old 07-14-2011, 06:27 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Try this for parts.
http://www.tamadrum.co.jp/world/part...rftw_2004.html
I think the spring is listed. Hope that helps?
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  #13  
Old 07-14-2011, 11:56 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
I am surprised to notice that bass drum heads break for so many people.
I have never gone through a bass drum head.
I use two ply heads for hard play.
I always use a protector.
I hardly ever replace my bass drum heads. I keep them for years.
Way back when I was completely poor (and like 14 years old), I had a bass pedal footboard snap in half during a beat. My foot and the remnants of the footboard went through the bass head. It was some complete junker pedal that came with my CB700s. I did end up getting a Speed King, so all was good after that.
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  #14  
Old 08-17-2011, 02:01 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

After having my Rolling Glide double for 10 months, the right pedal spring broke. A little better than 6 weeks, but I'm still kind of disappointed. I mean, how common is it for springs to break? I know they aren't expensive to replace, but when some people say they've never had a spring break, it makes me wonder what caused mine to break. I have medium tension and I usually bury the beater when I play slowly enough to not need a quick rebound. If it means anything, it broke the same exact place as Mr Orange's Speed Cobra spring as shown in this post. I think I will try the Tama heavy springs as replacements.
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  #15  
Old 08-17-2011, 02:45 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

I commented before in this thread about the wisdom of carrying spare parts, but I guess I'm a bit surprised to hear of all these Tama springs breaking. I've owned Rogers, Ludwig, DW, Mapex, and Pearl pedals and have yet to break a spring. Beater shaft, yes. Strap, yes. But not a spring. Kinda funny.
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  #16  
Old 08-17-2011, 02:52 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Me too ID I never broke a spring either. You broke a beater...SHAFT? Whoa. Never even thought to carry a spare spring, as I carry a spare pedal, which I never had to use yet, in 8 years. I don't understand how a spring can break unless it's defective, which sounds like the case. Spring wire is hardened steel and tough stuff. When I hear of footboard snapping...I have to wonder how the heck that even happens.
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  #17  
Old 08-17-2011, 02:56 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Yup, Larry, the shaft was on the old Rogers pedal, if I remember right. Poked right through the head. It was YEARS ago...
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  #18  
Old 08-17-2011, 03:02 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Honestly, I thought broken springs would be a common occurrence due to the constant bending and stretching the metal endures. I guess I'm disappointed in mine breaking because that doesn't seem to be the case, with so many people (not just in this thread) saying they have never broken a spring.
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  #19  
Old 08-17-2011, 03:12 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

In my experience with springs, not just drum pedals, but in several mechanical applications, it is common for a spring to lose tension over time, but not really so common for them to break. That's just been my experience, it's not like I've done a scientific study. But I have hand-me-down equipment with springs well over 50 years old...
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  #20  
Old 08-17-2011, 03:28 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Yeah, you're probably right. Could it just be cheap metal?
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  #21  
Old 08-17-2011, 04:17 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Typo View Post
Yeah, you're probably right. Could it just be cheap metal?
Could be, or it might be improperly hardened/tempered for the intended task. It could even be just one or two batches from an otherwise reputable supplier that were not up to snuff. Hard to say.
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  #22  
Old 08-17-2011, 04:49 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

I never broke a pedal spring, but I've been around a couple that did. I've broken several springs in different equipment, mostly on doors of tape decks. It's usually the eye hook that breaks.

Maybe heavy tension of the spring with it's continual stretching has something to do with it. I run my pedals fairly light.

Dennis
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  #23  
Old 08-17-2011, 07:30 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Quote:
Originally Posted by uniin View Post
are you putting max tension on your springs, and burying the beater into your bass drum (thus creating a lot more tension on your spring)?

if so fix your technique, if not so unlucky bud. i think they're like $5 for new springs though
O.P. hasn't responded. I'm with Uniin on this one. I see so many pedals set up way past 90 degrees to contact the batter. I would bet a shiny buffalo nickle that is what happened here. I've been bashing Metal sets most of my drumming life and have never broken a spring or batter head. However, it is quite possible you had a deffective spring with porosity defects in the metal from manufacturing.
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  #24  
Old 08-17-2011, 08:13 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Oh, I never even thought about the angle that the beater is hitting the bass drum. But mine can't be more than 100 degrees. I'm not sure how I would fix that anyway, as the pedal board can only go so far up against the bass drum hoop. And like I said, the tension setting is in the middle, probably closer to the looser side. I guess I'll be working on letting the beater rebound. It gives a better sound that way, too, so I have two good reasons to improve my technique.
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  #25  
Old 08-17-2011, 08:16 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

You could look at it this way, with the Tamas, you're only replacing a $2 part. If you have DW pedals, you'll eventually replace that $30 hinge between the pedal and the heel plate. Not a bad trade-off, I say ;)
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  #26  
Old 08-17-2011, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Karl mentioned replacing that hinge, now you Bo. Is there something I'm not aware of regarding the life expectancy of those hinges? I just don't see how they could fail, under normal playing. Do the castings crack or something?
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  #27  
Old 08-17-2011, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Karl mentioned replacing that hinge, now you Bo. Is there something I'm not aware of regarding the life expectancy of those hinges? I just don't see how they could fail, under normal playing. Do the castings crack or something?
If you look at the design evolution of the DW pedal from the old Camco design, you'll notice it began as a relatively simple door hinge. Over time, my old hinges became loose because the hinge part became wider as you worked the pedal over time, causing it to be replaced because you couldn't tighten it up. I've seen hinges bend at the connection point to the bottom of the pedal plate - it's really the only goofy design flaw of the Camco. This is why we've seen DW bulk up their pedals, and create the delta hinge, their answer to a weak design flaw.

If you look at the Tama Camco pedal, what they did to improve it was to eliminate the separate hinge. The foot pedal has a notch cut out of the bottom of it, and the heel has a protruding piece that fits into the footpedal notch. They then simply put a hardened steel rod through the heel and footpedal. I've never had a problem with this design and it's simpler and eliminates a piece to the pedal! It cuts down on weight and allows the pedal to be cheaper at the point of sale.

It's funny that DW really sold the ol' 5000 on it being light and it giving you the ability to fly on it. Fast forward 30 years and now the DW5000 and 9000 are about the biggest and heaviest we've ever used.
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  #28  
Old 08-17-2011, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

I wanted to replace the standard hinge with the Delta. Wanted to, not had to.
Just like the action better with the Delta.

The "problems" were because of Loc-Tite, not wear haha!

The OP just needs to use a heavier duty spring. The springs that come standard most pedals seem kinda flimsy, but that's me.

I have DW's HD springs on all my Eliminators. The oldest 2 are over 5 yrs old, newest probably 3 yrs. No Problems, never stretch as far as I can feel.
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  #29  
Old 08-18-2011, 12:02 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Typo View Post
After having my Rolling Glide double for 10 months, the right pedal spring broke. A little better than 6 weeks, but I'm still kind of disappointed. I mean, how common is it for springs to break?...
If you're a gigging drummer, spare pedal springs are just one of several items that are a must for the pocket in your stick bag. This is nothing to do with Tama, or DW, or anyone else who supplies springs with bass drum pedals. It's a replaceable engineering part - sometimes you get millions of cycles, sometimes you only get thousands, but everything eventually breaks or wears out. It just so happens you got thousands with this one. Replace it with the correct spring, you'll probably get millions out of the next one - but if it breaks in a similar period of time then there may be a problem with the pedal setup.
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  #30  
Old 08-18-2011, 02:05 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

I love my iron cobras... just sayin'....
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  #31  
Old 08-18-2011, 10:40 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Never had a problem with mine and had it a few years, and I often, but not always, bury the beater (I prefer to say I don't release it, bury it implies I'm constantly trying to impale the drum). I have the spring pretty loose though.. I can only imagine yours was as tight as it could go?

I am going to start taking a spare spring to gigs with me now though just in case!
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  #32  
Old 08-18-2011, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Thanks flurbs, that makes a lot of sense.

Out of curiosity, I measured the amount of thread below the "spring tight" mechanism for further clarification on my tension settings. If you other Iron Cobra owners don't mind, it would be great to see a comparison.

This is a stock photo showing what I measured (red rectangle). Mine comes in at 3/16".
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Old 08-18-2011, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Typo View Post
Thanks flurbs, that makes a lot of sense.

Out of curiosity, I measured the amount of thread below the "spring tight" mechanism for further clarification on my tension settings. If you other Iron Cobra owners don't mind, it would be great to see a comparison.

This is a stock photo showing what I measured (red rectangle). Mine comes in at 3/16".
Mine is about the same as the photo, probably a bit looser than that even.
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  #34  
Old 03-21-2013, 12:40 PM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Actually the hinge on the cobras can break...


mine just has, but it is the bearings that have failed, not the hinge mechanism itself.

I'm being told by my dealer that you cannot get just the bearings, you have to buy the whole board. does anyone have any info on this?

Aaron
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  #35  
Old 06-24-2013, 03:16 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Ugh, I just got a Power Glide DB and so far I'm not liking it.

Going from being able to do quick doubles successively for a duration of time to really struggling to be able to do it consistently. Just not feeling right at all. Been adjusting it the whole past two days and just haven't been able to find a setting that feels right. I'll give it more time but so far I am pretty disappointed, I play better on a piece of shit Alesis pedal I have. Kind of wishing I had just bought the Falcons.
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  #36  
Old 06-24-2013, 04:22 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
If you look at the design evolution of the DW pedal from the old Camco design, you'll notice it began as a relatively simple door hinge. Over time, my old hinges became loose because the hinge part became wider as you worked the pedal over time, causing it to be replaced because you couldn't tighten it up. I've seen hinges bend at the connection point to the bottom of the pedal plate - it's really the only goofy design flaw of the Camco. This is why we've seen DW bulk up their pedals, and create the delta hinge, their answer to a weak design flaw.

If you look at the Tama Camco pedal, what they did to improve it was to eliminate the separate hinge. The foot pedal has a notch cut out of the bottom of it, and the heel has a protruding piece that fits into the footpedal notch. They then simply put a hardened steel rod through the heel and footpedal. I've never had a problem with this design and it's simpler and eliminates a piece to the pedal! It cuts down on weight and allows the pedal to be cheaper at the point of sale.

It's funny that DW really sold the ol' 5000 on it being light and it giving you the ability to fly on it. Fast forward 30 years and now the DW5000 and 9000 are about the biggest and heaviest we've ever used.

Yeah the delta hinge is one of the best footboard hinges out there imo....the weak link with the 5000's are the rocker hub...just about as cheap as they get. Has anyone tried the canopus speed bearing that replaces the rocker hub? I wanted to try one but 60 bucks is a bit steep when compared to the 4 dollar rocker hub....I may start a new thread on the speedstar...
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  #37  
Old 06-24-2013, 05:53 AM
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Default Re: New iron cobras = useless tama....

Happened with my brand new mapex falcon. They sent replacements. Not that big a deal, just gotta keep spares I guess.

My 13 year old iron cobra springs are still going strong.
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