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  #1  
Old 03-26-2012, 01:55 AM
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Default Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

Could someone explain the concept more in depth to me? Is it just slightly lagging or speeding up your drumming in relation to the music? How would you go about doing trying to do this, is it just a matter of "training" yourself?
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:10 AM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

Think of a flam. To play behind the beat, play the grace note right on the beat. To play ahead, play the quarter note where the grace note would normally be if you were exactly on. In both cases, the grace note is played on your ride (or hi hat) and the quarter note on the snare.

In country, you often play slightly ahead of the beat. In blues, it's usually slightly behind.
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:17 AM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

It's definitely not slowing down or speeding up. The tempo remains a constant. It's more a matter of note placement to create a feel. You can labour the back beat of a snare drum to create a slightly relaxed feeling groove. Or you can play slightly in front of it to create that feeling of urgency. It's important to note we're talking micro timing here....not being a whole 16th (or even 32nd) note behind or ahead of the beat.
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:26 AM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

...

On a graph, think of correct beat placement as a line and not as a dot. Then where you put that dot on the line determines how behind or ahead of the beat you are.

...
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Old 03-26-2012, 08:08 AM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

Like Pocket said, it's a feel thing. If I'm not dead center of the beat, I'm either laying it back or pushing the feel slightly. It really has to be felt. Different people feel their time in different ways. Some guys I know like it right dead center and relentless, other guys like it laid back with a little looseness, while other guys like to push things and keep it slightly on edge. I keep track of everyone's tendencies, they differ.
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:51 AM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Some guys I know like it right dead center and relentless, other guys like it laid back with a little looseness, while other guys like to push things and keep it slightly on edge.
And some execute a bit loosely because they have no choice ...

I find that I can pick the evenness of my backbeat far better listening back to recordings than while playing. Too much going on.
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Old 03-26-2012, 03:38 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

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Originally Posted by SergiuM View Post
Could someone explain the concept more in depth to me? Is it just slightly lagging or speeding up your drumming in relation to the music? How would you go about doing trying to do this, is it just a matter of "training" yourself?
From what's been posted already, you probably have a good idea of what behind/ahead of the beat is, but that begs the question: how do you develop and practice it?

Start very, very simply. Play quarter notes at 60 bpm (use a metronome) with your right hand. Practice landing them square on the click, so that you can't even hear the click anymore. This part is somewhat zen-like, because when you're doing it right, there's no affirmation, because you can't hear the click. If you are behind or ahead, then you will hear the click a bit.

Then try playing ahead of the click. Create a "flam" between the click and your playing (your playing occurs first). Strive for a consistent spacing between the click and your playing.

Then try playing behind the click (the click occurs first). Again, strive for consistent spacing.

As you get comfortable with each of these scenarios, try switching between them after a specific amount of measures. You will find that it's easier to "bury" the click (play dead on) after you've learned to control your time such that you can speed up or slow down by very small amounts.

Repeat the above, but with basic rock beats, blues shuffles, jazz waltz, etc. It's especially difficult to play fills while maintaining the same time-center!
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Old 03-26-2012, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
And some execute a bit loosely because they have no choice ...

I find that I can pick the evenness of my backbeat far better listening back to recordings than while playing. Too much going on.
I was told that the trick is to listen when you are playing as if you are listening when you're not playing. Requires a detachment of sorts.
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Old 03-26-2012, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

Don't get me started on this subject :)

It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine. There's lots of talk about what playing behind/ahead of the beat means, but people rarely talk about how dependent it is on the rest of the band. There can be no ahead or behind the beat unless you are playing with skilled, cooperative musicians who maintain that little space without trying to adjust and line up perfectly with the drummer again. If the band doesn't let you sit behind or ahead of the beat, then nothing you can do is going to make that possible.

Now that I got that part out of the way, yeah, it's a worthwhile skill that you can practice with your metronome. I find that the style of music affects where I sit. I don't really think about it in conscious terms, like, "Hey, I'm going to sit a little bit behind the beat right now." It's more of an organic thing that comes out of trying to find the right feel for a particular tune. I tend to sit back on slower, grooving stuff and get a little ahead on more driving, uptempo music. That's just what seems to happen.
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Old 03-26-2012, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

What 8Mile said, as always, is right on. The rest of the band has to get it too. I dispensed with the whole "ahead/behind the beat" label and substituted "lay it back" or "push it a little". It was so confusing to me...ahead of the beat, behind the beat...I AM THE BEAT! HOW CAN I BE AHEAD OR BEHIND MYSELF? I just decided to look on it as a feel thing, not an exact note placement thing.
Many times I'll have to be dead center, so the others can play a little behind or ahead, it's not always a drummer thing.
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Old 03-26-2012, 05:29 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

at a Stewart Copeland clinic years ago in LA he talked about this in a way which I found interesting

he drew a bubble on a dry erase board....like a half circle...and said you have to think of a beat as a half circle.

directly at the peak of the half circle would be on the beat...12 o clock
at about 1 or 2 oclock would be behind the beat
11 or 10 oclock would be ahead of the beat
or vise versa ...how ever you want to picture it

this has nothing to do with tempo

he talked about how Sting hated how he played on top of the beat and sometimes ahead pushing the song and that they would often fight about it

as others have said this can only be executed with experienced seasoned musicians

its a feel thing...very slight but highly affective when under control
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:34 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

tablature broken into 64th notes: if hat matches click, then:

on the beat
||x---------------x---------------x---------------x---------------||
||--------------------------------S-------------------------------||
||B---------------------------------------------------------------||

ahead of the beat
||x---------------x---------------x---------------x---------------||
||-------------------------------S--------------------------------||
||---------------------------------------------------------------B||

behind the beat
||x---------------x---------------x---------------x---------------||
||---------------------------------S------------------------------||
||-B--------------------------------------------------------------||
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7QRj9Em4II

Came to think of this performance by Adam Deith, the second song is a good example of pushing the beat.
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:18 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bretton View Post
tablature broken into 64th notes: if hat matches click, then:

on the beat
||x---------------x---------------x---------------x---------------||
||--------------------------------S-------------------------------||
||B---------------------------------------------------------------||

ahead of the beat
||x---------------x---------------x---------------x---------------||
||-------------------------------S--------------------------------||
||---------------------------------------------------------------B||

behind the beat
||x---------------x---------------x---------------x---------------||
||---------------------------------S------------------------------||
||-B--------------------------------------------------------------||
This would result in a slightly sloppy sounding flam sound between the hi hat and snare I would think. That is not the intention of playing behind the beat. This may cause disagreement. For those who understand playing behind the beat, would you say that there is slight flamming involved? I'm going with no.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
This would result in a slightly sloppy sounding flam sound between the hi hat and snare I would think. That is not the intention of playing behind the beat. This may cause disagreement. For those who understand playing behind the beat, would you say that there is slight flamming involved? I'm going with no.
I agree with you. It's about being in front/on top of/behind the rest of the band
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

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Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine. There's lots of talk about what playing behind/ahead of the beat means, but people rarely talk about how dependent it is on the rest of the band. There can be no ahead or behind the beat unless you are playing with skilled, cooperative musicians who maintain that little space without trying to adjust and line up perfectly with the drummer again. If the band doesn't let you sit behind or ahead of the beat, then nothing you can do is going to make that possible.
Right, most people will just start rushing or dragging- or accuse you of doing it. I think drummers should just try to play right on the money, and the ahead of/behind the beatedness will happen as a natural by product of where you and everyone else is putting the time. Usually there's so much difference between what 3-5+ guys think they're hearing and what they're actually playing that trying to play ahead of/behind the beat on top of that is just muddying the water.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
This would result in a slightly sloppy sounding flam sound between the hi hat and snare I would think. That is not the intention of playing behind the beat. This may cause disagreement. For those who understand playing behind the beat, would you say that there is slight flamming involved? I'm going with no.
yeah this graphic is in no way an example of playing behind or ahead of the beat

thats a bit drastic
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:56 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

Some great descriptions on here. I too had heard of the 'circle' example (Copeland) its a good analogy.
I gotta say on a practical level though it has to be totally feel, and I'm not sure it can really be practiced because it ultimately involves the rest of the folks in your band.
On that note, I do know our guitarist constantly is ahead of the beat, 'pushing' whereas my feel and preference is to play a little behind. I detest his sense of urgency sometimes!
Maybe that is a new way to describe other band members ....as "pushy" or not (or "pully"?).
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
This would result in a slightly sloppy sounding flam sound between the hi hat and snare I would think. That is not the intention of playing behind the beat. This may cause disagreement. For those who understand playing behind the beat, would you say that there is slight flamming involved? I'm going with no.
I don't think the intent is to actually flam between the hats adn either snare or kick, rather, very slight flamming between those elements and the click, or grid.

Also, it seems to me that many players will anchor the kick on "one" and lay the snare back a bit, while others will have a tendency to anchor the snare while letting the "one" fall back.

Or maybe that's just my perception.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:50 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

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Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
I don't think the intent is to actually flam between the hats adn either snare or kick, rather, very slight flamming between those elements and the click, or grid.

Also, it seems to me that many players will anchor the kick on "one" and lay the snare back a bit, while others will have a tendency to anchor the snare while letting the "one" fall back.

Or maybe that's just my perception.
Yea... The way I think about it, everything is mostly "on beat" except the "back beat"... Usually the snare... As an example, I've usually found that a lot of the feel in "funk" drumming is playing the snare behind the quarter pulse a bit. Waiting almost too long and then laying it in there creates a cool funky feeling.

As others have mentioned though, the band has to have a good sense of the pulse themselves or this doesn't work and just sounds off.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

Thanks for helpful replies all.. I knew it had nothing to do with a tempo change, and you guys confirmed what i thought it was, with more explanation. Ill definitely keep it in mind and try to implement it into my playing. It's a very interesting concept for me; it's another way to manipulate the feel of a song
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:21 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhRwkC6RxcU

I always thought this song was an interesting study on this topic. The verses seem to have the snare way back with the kick dead on. But then he has a way of sticking the big crashes elsewhere in a laid back way, which means he's alternately pulling the back beat, then the down beat, pretty much at will. It's very effective.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:28 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhRwkC6RxcU

I always thought this song was an interesting study on this topic. The verses seem to have the snare way back with the kick dead on. But then he has a way of sticking the big crashes elsewhere in a laid back way, which means he's alternately pulling the back beat, then the down beat, pretty much at will. It's very effective.

I would agree with that

also When the Levee Breaks, and Cissy Strut I think are good common examples
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

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Originally Posted by Gvdadrummasum View Post
I would agree with that

also When the Levee Breaks, and Cissy Strut I think are good common examples
I had to look up Cissy Strut (and can't say I've ever heard it before) but yeah, he's doing exactly the same thing.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:57 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Yea... The way I think about it, everything is mostly "on beat" except the "back beat"... Usually the snare... As an example, I've usually found that a lot of the feel in "funk" drumming is playing the snare behind the quarter pulse a bit. Waiting almost too long and then laying it in there creates a cool funky feeling.

As others have mentioned though, the band has to have a good sense of the pulse themselves or this doesn't work and just sounds off.
Is that swinging? And a different thing from consistently playing on/behind/ahead of the beat with the rest of the band?
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Like Pocket said, it's a feel thing. If I'm not dead center of the beat, I'm either laying it back or pushing the feel slightly. It really has to be felt. Different people feel their time in different ways. Some guys I know like it right dead center and relentless, other guys like it laid back with a little looseness, while other guys like to push things and keep it slightly on edge. I keep track of everyone's tendencies, they differ.
Ok, now I'm totalling confused here. Forgive me, I am a noob, playing for 1.5 years give or take.

Larry, please don't take my following comments offensivelly (I am genuinely asking, that's all). You without a doubt are proficient in what you do, and you have given me great info here since I started.

Since the beginning of taking lessons, by previous teacher always brought this up, the thing about playing "slightly ahead or behing" the beat. I understood the concept exacly. He demonstrated several times, while we played to a metronome. As a matter of fact, we used the metronome every single class, for everything really.

He said he developed that skill by practicing to a metronome for years and years, and he can bury the click by being dead on it, or be behind, or ahead slightly. I was blown away.

Now I saw in the other Larry's thread "A word of encouragement" where he said it wasn't until end of last year when he started to play with a click, after his band leader complained about some timing stuff (sorry, can't remember details).

So, for someone who never practiced with a metronome, how do you develop this skill? How do you know if you (or someone else) are dead on the beat, ahead, behind, etc, specially since we are talking microtiming here? Isn't the metronome practice essencial or such a skill to be developed?Or can this be achieved by feel only? If so, how do I know if my "feel" is dead on, ahead, or behind? How do I learn "the feel"? :)

Should I work without a metronome at times so I don't become dependent on it?
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

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Originally Posted by haroldo_psf View Post
So, for someone who never practiced with a metronome, how do you develop this skill? How do you know if you (or someone else) are dead on the beat, ahead, behind, etc, specially since we are talking microtiming here?
If you're dead on the beat you'll cancel out the metronome click. If you're in front of it you'll hear your drum hit followed by the click or probably overlapping the drum hit but slightly afterwards. If you're behind it you'll hear the click first then your drum hit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haroldo_psf View Post
Isn't the metronome practice essencial or such a skill to be developed?Or can this be achieved by feel only? If so, how do I know if my "feel" is dead on, ahead, or behind? How do I learn "the feel"? :)
The only 'feel' about it is the feel you get from a sense of time that can manipulate your hits around the click, as described above. I recommend practicing to a click at 40 bpm, just singles, do it for a couple of weeks and feel your ability to anticipate and hit the click where you want it improve hugely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haroldo_psf View Post
Should I work without a metronome at times so I don't become dependent on it?
I never do solo practice without it. IMO, you'll only improve by doing so, because you learn to hear/feel the gaps and the microtiming. I don't use it for band practice tho, other than to set the tempo sometimes. I think it's a myth that you can become dependent on the 'nome. And even if you can, people that have not used it enough just need to get practicing with it.
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

This!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sytTr6kV5Dw

Steve Jordan does an excellent demonstration on the subject. He is also a master of feeling the backside and topside of the beat.

Have a listen.


Ps. I'm pretty sure the tabbed reply is wrong/confusing. This is how it should read.. the top line being the metronome.

on the beat
||x---------------x---------------x---------------x---------------||
||--------------------------------S-------------------------------||
||B---------------------------------------------------------------||

behind of the beat
||x---------------x---------------x---------------x---------------||
||---------------------------------S------------------------------||
||-B--------------------------------------------------------------||

ahead the beat
||x---------------x---------------x---------------x---------------||
||-------------------------------S--------------------------------||
||---------------------------------------------------------------B||


notice how when you play ahead of the beat, its literally ahead, in front, or on top, of the click. Playing behind the beat is literally behind, or on the backside, of the click. There shouldn't be any flams in your playing btw. You place all your notes just a fraction of a second ahead or behind the beat.

Therefore, as 8Mile pointed out, playing ahead or behind the best is relative to either the rest of the band, what you played earlier, or a click.
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Last edited by wsabol; 03-28-2012 at 09:34 PM.
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:41 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

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Originally Posted by wsabol View Post
Ps. I'm pretty sure the tabbed reply is wrong/confusing. This is how it should read.. the top line being the metronome.

on the beat
||x---------------x---------------x---------------x---------------||
||--------------------------------S-------------------------------||
||B---------------------------------------------------------------||

ahead of the beat
||x---------------x---------------x---------------x---------------||
||---------------------------------S------------------------------||
||-B--------------------------------------------------------------||

behind the beat
||x---------------x---------------x---------------x---------------||
||-------------------------------S--------------------------------||
||---------------------------------------------------------------B||


notice how when you play ahead of the beat, its literally ahead, in front, or on top, of the click. Playing behind the beat is literally behind, or on the backside, of the click. There shouldn't be any flams in your playing btw. You place all your notes just a fraction of a second ahead or behind the beat.

Therefore, as 8Mile pointed out, playing ahead or behind the best is relative to either the rest of the band, what you played earlier, or a click.
your description is the opposite of your diagrams though, using the "x"s as "the beat" playing ahead of the beat, being literally ahead of, or slightly before the beat, is the bottom example shown here, whereas playing behind the beat is playing slightly after the beat, and would be the middle example.

it could work either way, if you're flamming the kick and snare, then you're just playing the kick and snare ahead of or behind the beat. Or you could play everything ahead of or behind the beat spot on together, but there has to be a reference point. If there's just say drummer and bass player, if the drummer is playing everything behind the beat, then one could also say the drummer is playing exactly on time, and the bass player is playing ahead of the beat. This is why the flamming example makes sense to me, as it makes the hi-hat equivalent to the click, being the pulse that everything centres around.
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:44 PM
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  #30  
Old 03-27-2012, 11:48 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by haroldo_psf View Post
So, for someone who never practiced with a metronome, how do you develop this skill? How do you know if you (or someone else) are dead on the beat, ahead, behind, etc, specially since we are talking microtiming here? Isn't the metronome practice essencial or such a skill to be developed?Or can this be achieved by feel only? If so, how do I know if my "feel" is dead on, ahead, or behind? How do I learn "the feel"? :)

Should I work without a metronome at times so I don't become dependent on it?
One of the reasons I posted a Dave Grohl example was because he was only 20 or 21 at the time of that recording and I seriously doubt he ever thought much about it. For some people, it is entirely a feel thing while others may over-analyze it to death and still never get it.
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

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Is that swinging? And a different thing from consistently playing on/behind/ahead of the beat with the rest of the band?
I don't think so, not unless it has a "swing" feel. Swing itself has always been hard to define for me... I guess you might describe it as a push pull type thing? When I play "swing" feel, everything is smooth, not jerky, but also not exactly even like a straight rock song or something.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:52 AM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

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Originally Posted by Liebe zeit View Post
If you're dead on the beat you'll cancel out the metronome click. If you're in front of it you'll hear your drum hit followed by the click or probably overlapping the drum hit but slightly afterwards. If you're behind it you'll hear the click first then your drum hit.

The only 'feel' about it is the feel you get from a sense of time that can manipulate your hits around the click, as described above. I recommend practicing to a click at 40 bpm, just singles, do it for a couple of weeks and feel your ability to anticipate and hit the click where you want it improve hugely.

I never do solo practice without it. IMO, you'll only improve by doing so, because you learn to hear/feel the gaps and the microtiming. I don't use it for band practice tho, other than to set the tempo sometimes. I think it's a myth that you can become dependent on the 'nome. And even if you can, people that have not used it enough just need to get practicing with it.
Hi! I believe you misunderstood my post. All my questions were related to (and directed at) Larry's ability to do this all without having ever practiced with a metronome. Of course, I get it if a metronome is used.

PS: after reading some later replies, am I understanding this correclty that, regarless of ahead or behind the click (or beat), the eighth notes are still "aligned" with the click? (see diagram from wsabol above).
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:14 AM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Yea... The way I think about it, everything is mostly "on beat" except the "back beat"... Usually the snare...
That's exactly how I employ the concept. It's the back beat on the snare that creates either that laboured or urgent feel for me.

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Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
For some people, it is entirely a feel thing while others may over-analyze it to death and still never get it.
Defintely mate. The term "feel" is paramount IMHO. Hence why the grid thing is perhaps a hard concept for some to grapple. To me it could be misconstrued as implying a specific note value.....to my way of thinking, that's certainly where one could be in danger of being over analytical. Far better to feel the concept within a musical context IMHO.....which, I'll bet, is how Larry was able to work on it long before he started working to a click.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:21 AM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

Push. You have to feel it. And your bandmates have to get it.
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:04 AM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

If i listen to Led Zep's Kashmir I swear it feels so laboured, so ponderous - it is truely fantastic. I presume he is playing behind the beat. But I've never checked.

The feel this creates is incredible.

Davo
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

I wanted to test this out so I programmed four drum and bass grooves in Ableton.

All are identical, except that they are (as labelled) ahead of, on and behind the beat plus one with a late snare. The time off the grid is about 1/64th of a beat.

See if you can tell the difference.

There's a 120bpm version and one at 60bpm of each.

http://soundcloud.com/mr-roque-1/set...d-ahead-on-etc
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

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Originally Posted by haroldo_psf View Post

So, for someone who never practiced with a metronome, how do you develop this skill? How do you know if you (or someone else) are dead on the beat, ahead, behind, etc, specially since we are talking microtiming here? Isn't the metronome practice essencial or such a skill to be developed?Or can this be achieved by feel only? If so, how do I know if my "feel" is dead on, ahead, or behind? How do I learn "the feel"? :)

Should I work without a metronome at times so I don't become dependent on it?
haroldo, before Drummerworld, I had no conscious concept of ahead of the beat or behind the beat. I just played how I felt, which in my mind, was right in the center. MikeM posted a Nirvana song saying he feels this is a good example of a behind the beat song. I listened to it and it feels like dead center for me, IMO the feel coming from a lack of a sense of urgency, not beat placement per se. That's my take on it. My point is people experience time, and/or define time, differently.

Haroldo, you've only been playing a year and a half and are already being exposed to concepts that I never even thought about until a few years ago, so you are way ahead of the game, if that makes you feel any better. Great, perfectly measured musical time is a very high achievement, and takes years of thinking about it and practicing it to conquer. I feel as though I just started, because I neglected the metronome for most of my playing life.

My natural meter and timing...started off bad, in fact I had no concept of what I was doing for many years lol...but loving music so much I improved over time...and my timing got acceptable, but the addition of the metronome really gave me a much improved confidence to my internal clock that shines through.

I have to say, Drummerworld did wonders for my drumming. It gave me a place to get all my thoughts out, and be exposed to so many fine minds. I never had that before. Just thinking about and defining your drumming attitudes, helps shape your playing, without picking up a stick. In a major way. Bernhard is responsible for elevating the whole landscape that is drumming to a better place. I do believe he is as influential on the industry as the Ludwig family is.

So haroldo, just keep at it, you'll be awesome-er, in less time, than us guys who started when Nixon was President, because you have such a rich resource here.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

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Originally Posted by Liebe zeit View Post
I wanted to test this out so I programmed four drum and bass grooves in Ableton.

All are identical, except that they are (as labelled) ahead of, on and behind the beat plus one with a late snare. The time off the grid is about 1/64th of a beat.

See if you can tell the difference.

There's a 120bpm version and one at 60bpm of each.

http://soundcloud.com/mr-roque-1/set...d-ahead-on-etc
Liebe! Great thing you did here. Now we can really discuss how we like the sound of flammed beat placement around a centered beat.

The only ones I thought sounded acceptable were #5 and #7.

So does playing behind the beat in real life sound like this? In # 5 and 7 I'd say yes, sort of, but the others (played ahead of the beat) I'd say they don't sound right.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

I don't think I'm familiar enough with many real world examples of a drummer getting ahead of the beat. There's probably plenty who drop behind a touch tho.

I think they all sound OK, however, except the one that's right on top of the beat - it sounds less, ahem, human than the others
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: Playing behind/ahead of the beat?

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Originally Posted by Liebe zeit View Post
I don't think I'm familiar enough with many real world examples of a drummer getting ahead of the beat.
Stewart Copeland...his recordings with the Police, are poster children for playing ahead of the beat. His feel is on the rushed and manic side slightly. Not knocking ole Stewie, I love those recordings.
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