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  #1  
Old 06-23-2011, 04:44 PM
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Default Die Cast hoops on THIN shells

The sound I'm going for is the vintage jazz kit with internal mufflers sound. Low sustain, but still full open sound. I have a 6 ply Keller 10" and 12" tom, 4 mm thick, with which I want to achieve this sound without installing internal mufflers. I think Die cast hoops will do the trick by cutting down the sustain and focusing the tone, but I worried they will be too much on those thin shells and sound pinched and choked.

Do any of you have experience with steel die cast hoops on thin shells?
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:09 PM
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Default Re: Die Cast hoops on THIN shells

Aren't the coveted Gretsch round badge drums thin shells w/ die cast hoops? No vents either I understand. How do you get low sustain but a full open sound.? Isn't that contradictory? Jazz guys don't muffle last time I checked. High tuned ringing drums is the sound I associate w/ jazz. What you have should work great. Jazz is in the player not the drum.
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Old 06-24-2011, 06:31 AM
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Default Re: Die Cast hoops on THIN shells

Yes, if you want that tone, than I think regular die casts would be too much. However, This is what I would do.

1. Use Die cast ONLY on the Batter side.
2. Use Yamaha ALUMINUM die Cast Hoops.

Those aluminum die cast hoops, even though they are die cast, they don’t choke the drum…they are VERY light.
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Old 06-24-2011, 07:21 AM
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Default Re: Die Cast hoops on THIN shells

Yes, you can use die cast hoops on super-thin shells. You just have to make sure that you don't do anything ridiculous like tighten one tension rod really ungodly tight. Die cast hoops don't "give" or flex like flanged hoops do. With normal use, this shouldn't be a problem.

I have a Gretsch round badge kit, with the original rims, and it sounds great...it definitely has that classic jazz sound to it. I haven't had any problems with the shell cracking or being put under too much stress or anything, but then again, I'm not stupid with my drums...
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Old 06-24-2011, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: Die Cast hoops on THIN shells

There must be something you're stupid at....
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  #6  
Old 06-24-2011, 05:50 PM
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Default Re: Die Cast hoops on THIN shells

Quote:
Originally Posted by wsabol View Post
...Low sustain, but still full open sound. I have a 6 ply Keller 10" and 12" tom, 4 mm thick, with which I want to achieve this sound without installing internal mufflers.
Are these maple shells?
Are you only going to be putting these hoops ONLY on the 10" and 12" toms? (what about the floor tom, snare, ect.)

Have you looked into Wood hoops? You would get a really good controlled, warm sound, but won’t sound metallically like Die-cast sometimes do on TOMS. There is some guy that makes / sells them on ebay, and they are super thick, and have a great finish on them, and are alot cheaper than yamaha wood hoops. I have only heard good things about them.

By the way, how do those thin Keller shells sound? Do you have a matching thin Keller bass drum too?
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Old 06-24-2011, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: Die Cast hoops on THIN shells

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobamnator View Post
Yes, if you want that tone, than I think regular die casts would be too much. However, This is what I would do.

1. Use Die cast ONLY on the Batter side.
2. Use Yamaha ALUMINUM die Cast Hoops.

Those aluminum die cast hoops, even though they are die cast, they don’t choke the drum…they are VERY light.
Really good idea, except I can't find aluminum die cast hoops anywhere. I've had to go with steel for convenience's sake. Maybe I'll keep triple flanged hoops on the reso side.

Quote:
Are these maple shells?
Are you only going to be putting these hoops ONLY on the 10" and 12" toms? (what about the floor tom, snare, ect.)

Have you looked into Wood hoops? You would get a really good controlled, warm sound, but won’t sound metallically like Die-cast sometimes do on TOMS. There is some guy that makes / sells them on ebay, and they are super thick, and have a great finish on them, and are alot cheaper than yamaha wood hoops. I have only heard good things about them.

By the way, how do those thin Keller shells sound? Do you have a matching thin Keller bass drum too?
Yes, they are maple shells. I didn't ask about my floor toms because the shells I'm getting for those are a little bit thicker. And the bass drum shell is thicker than the floors, however compared to the big name kits, the bass shell is still relatively thin.

I've thought about wood hoops, but I'd rather stick with die cast for now at least. I'll be more comfortable behind the kit knowing its more authentic to the great Round Badges.

I've been skeptical to the sound of Keller shells, because of their relatively low-technology manufacturing compared to Yamaha and Pearl. But I really like thinner shells, and the guys here that have Keller kits can't say enough good things about them. Plus, building a kit has always been in the back of my mind, and its a somewhat cheaper alternative to getting my exact specs from Yamaha or Pearl. And anyway, I'm not going to be doing any world tours with JayZ or recording for Bruce Springsteen anytime at all in my lifetime, so I don't necessarily need a super high end kit.
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Last edited by wsabol; 06-24-2011 at 06:13 PM. Reason: typos
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  #8  
Old 06-25-2011, 06:31 AM
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Default Re: Die Cast hoops on THIN shells

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
There must be something you're stupid at....
Most things. Just not drums...
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  #9  
Old 06-27-2011, 09:43 PM
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Default Re: Die Cast hoops on THIN shells

FWIW:

I have both an 80's Gretsch maple set (Jasper gum maple shells) and a Yamaha MCAN set. The Gretsch shells are thicker than the Yamahas. Both have die cast hoops with steel on the Gretsch and aluminum on the Yamahas (per cobamnator's description).

I believe you can get a traditional jazz sound from either one with the right heads and tuning. I've used both for jazz gigs and never felt that either one was lacking.
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  #10  
Old 06-28-2011, 02:00 AM
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Default Re: Die Cast hoops on THIN shells

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shedboyxx View Post
FWIW:

I have both an 80's Gretsch maple set (Jasper gum maple shells) and a Yamaha MCAN set. The Gretsch shells are thicker than the Yamahas. Both have die cast hoops with steel on the Gretsch and aluminum on the Yamahas (per cobamnator's description).

I have been wondering lately about the Weight of die cast hoops. How heavy the Yamahas are compared to say Gretsch or Gibraltar ect. and what effect this has.

I might start a thread here pretty soon...
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  #11  
Old 06-29-2011, 03:05 AM
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Default Re: Die Cast hoops on THIN shells

You can sometimes spot Yamaha aluminum die cast hoops on eBay. I've seen the snare hoop pairs twice now. I bid on one set but lost - I think the winner paid $120 for them. Probably snare hoops come up more often than tom hoops but it couldn't hurt to save a search on there if you're not in a hurry.
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