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  #1  
Old 06-23-2011, 01:50 AM
LilCheezay's Avatar
LilCheezay LilCheezay is offline
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Default Cymbal Spring use?

So I know I'm getting a cymbal spring along with my new china, but I was just wondering if they would prolong the life of my ride and crash, although I don't tighten those cymbals with wingnuts, but I'm going to have to do something with the ride, as I'm stacking a bell on top of it. If anyone could help, it'd be greatly appreciated.
Cheezay
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Old 06-23-2011, 02:10 AM
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MikeM MikeM is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Spring use?

I've heard people say that these springs (Aquarian, no?) will prolong cymbal life, but I gotta say that I'm far from convinced. Here's why:

If you're not using a cymbal spring, where is the fulcrum of your cymbal's movement? A: It's right at the hole in the bell. All movement of the cymbal happens about this immovable point.

If you're using a cymbal spring, then the fulcrum has moved below the cymbal hole down to the halfway mark along the spring, which is what? An inch or two down from the cymbal? In any case, now the whole cymbal is moving, but here's where it gets ugly.

Normally, when you hit a cymbal, it deflects downward away from your strike, which is what you expect and want. But if you have it sitting up on a spring, then when you strike the cymbal, it now has to move toward you in order to deflect down! Or conversely, to get it to move away from you, it has to deflect up! Can you picture that? You're hitting a (crash) cymbal downward, but not exactly; usually your stick is moving slightly into the cymbal as well, so the spring wants to push the cymbal into your stick!

Of course your cymbal isn't going to like that and forces being what they are, this little discrepancy will be absorbed by your cymbal in an unnerving way.

But that isn't all! Have you ever played on a kit with cymbal springs or watched someone else use them? The cymbals are swinging all over the place! The edges are moving side to side (not up and down) so if you smack a cymbal and then hit it again a quarter note later (or so) when the cymbal is swinging back toward you, you're going to hit the edge at a nasty angle.

I may get flamed for this, but those things are the stupidest drum devices I've ever seen and I'm surprised they're still on the market. I've heard drummers say they protect their cymbals, but I suspect most of them probably weren't big cymbal crackers to begin with.

Okay, I'll admit that they might possibly be useful for china type cymbals (by the nature of how they're typically mounted and played), but I'm not entirely convinced of that either.
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Old 06-23-2011, 02:37 AM
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LilCheezay LilCheezay is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Spring use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
I've heard people say that these springs (Aquarian, no?) will prolong cymbal life, but I gotta say that I'm far from convinced. Here's why:

If you're not using a cymbal spring, where is the fulcrum of your cymbal's movement? A: It's right at the hole in the bell. All movement of the cymbal happens about this immovable point.

If you're using a cymbal spring, then the fulcrum has moved below the cymbal hole down to the halfway mark along the spring, which is what? An inch or two down from the cymbal? In any case, now the whole cymbal is moving, but here's where it gets ugly.

Normally, when you hit a cymbal, it deflects downward away from your strike, which is what you expect and want. But if you have it sitting up on a spring, then when you strike the cymbal, it now has to move toward you in order to deflect down! Or conversely, to get it to move away from you, it has to deflect up! Can you picture that? You're hitting a (crash) cymbal downward, but not exactly; usually your stick is moving slightly into the cymbal as well, so the spring wants to push the cymbal into your stick!
Makes logical sense..
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Old 06-23-2011, 03:43 AM
simmsdn simmsdn is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Spring use?

I used to use the Aquarian springs back in the mid-90s (see pic). I had all of my crashes on them, but not my ride or chinese cymbals.

I don't think they made a difference either way in regards to cymbal breaking/not breaking. I had like 5 crashes on this kit, so I didn't have an issue going back to a cymbal I just hit, because I didn't - I went to another cymbal (well, most of the time). I do think I got a lot better at not hitting cymbals too hard and my timing was impeccable because of the springs because of that bounce back from them.

I mainly used them because I was suspending my crashes and it made sense and looked pretty damn cool for 1993-1994.

Bottom line, I don't think it makes a difference any way you cut it.

Why would you mount a bell on top of your ride anyway? I have a 6" Zil-Bell on my kit right now and it's mounted above my 10" splash. If you mount it on your ride, you can't use the bell of your ride anymore in which case, you may as well get rid of it and buy another crash cymbal.
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Old 06-23-2011, 03:45 AM
simmsdn simmsdn is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Spring use?

BTW, here's my 6" ZilBell mounted today.
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  #6  
Old 06-23-2011, 03:47 AM
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KarlCrafton KarlCrafton is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Spring use?

Never liked those things.
All the things MikeM said, plus, they feel like crap when you hit the cymbal.

I had to play on a kit with them on the cymbals once.
The kit was nice, and it should have been fun, but those things made it suck.

I wouldn't bother with it on a China either. Just use good felts, and keep track of the wear on the plastic sleeve. That's all you need IMO.

On the stacking cymbal, just use a small felt (a thin bigger one, or a hi hat clutch felt) between them. or one of the thinner CymPads that are out.
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Old 06-23-2011, 04:24 AM
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LilCheezay LilCheezay is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Spring use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by simmsdn View Post
Why would you mount a bell on top of your ride anyway? I have a 6" Zil-Bell on my kit right now and it's mounted above my 10" splash. If you mount it on your ride, you can't use the bell of your ride anymore in which case, you may as well get rid of it and buy another crash cymbal.
Well, I'm strapped for cash as it is, replacing my cymbals is going to set me back, so a boom arm to place the bell on isn't really an option right now. And I play metalcore/post-hardcore, so I'm not really using my ride for anything but a crash, so the ride's bell is somewhat unnecessary. I just need some effects, and it just works out (in my mind) to have it mounted there.
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  #8  
Old 06-23-2011, 03:04 PM
Stewed Stewed is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Spring use?

I use one of those Aquarian spring thingies. Wuhan china. Felts would fit but a wingnut just would not fit into the neck of that "bell". Even at that the tob spring washer can be a bear with that Wuhan.

Don't think I'd use one on any normal bell pie though.
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  #9  
Old 06-23-2011, 09:39 PM
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BradGunnerSGT BradGunnerSGT is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Spring use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilCheezay View Post
So I know I'm getting a cymbal spring along with my new china, but I was just wondering if they would prolong the life of my ride and crash, although I don't tighten those cymbals with wingnuts, but I'm going to have to do something with the ride, as I'm stacking a bell on top of it. If anyone could help, it'd be greatly appreciated.
Cheezay
I've seen them used a lot with chinas, I prefer to let the cymbals swing more freely than the spring will move. I use Grombals and I'll never go back to wingnuts and sleeves again.
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  #10  
Old 06-23-2011, 09:51 PM
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Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Spring use?

Hmm. I've been using proper cymbal technique now for over 35 years and have never broken a cymbal. I think Aquarian has got some marketing skillz, though. They must be behind Britney Spears and Justin Beiber, too.
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  #11  
Old 06-24-2011, 12:58 AM
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KarlCrafton KarlCrafton is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Spring use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradGunnerSGT View Post
I've seen them used a lot with chinas, I prefer to let the cymbals swing more freely than the spring will move. I use Grombals and I'll never go back to wingnuts and sleeves again.
This thing looks kinda interesting....
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Old 06-24-2011, 05:43 AM
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Default Re: Cymbal Spring use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlCrafton View Post
This thing looks kinda interesting....
Hmmmm. Agree. That is cool. No more keyholing?
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Old 06-24-2011, 04:34 PM
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BradGunnerSGT BradGunnerSGT is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Spring use?

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Originally Posted by BigDinSD View Post
Hmmmm. Agree. That is cool. No more keyholing?
No keyholing, no felts, no dropping a wingnut under the bass drum while rushing through a 30 minute changeover between bands....just slide the cymbal on the stand during setup, and slide it off after the gig.

The only sleeve and felt combo I have left is for a 21" Groove Ride (because of the weight, the Grombal slips down past the little lip that normally catches the sleeve). Of course, I hardly ever use that ride, my 20" Tight Ride is my go-to ride.
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  #14  
Old 06-24-2011, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: Cymbal Spring use?

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Originally Posted by simmsdn View Post
BTW, here's my 6" ZilBell mounted today.
I like your old kit better. :)
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  #15  
Old 06-24-2011, 11:45 PM
simmsdn simmsdn is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Spring use?

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Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
I like your old kit better. :)
Having seen the pictures of your Mapex monster, I understand where you're coming from. (I do kinda miss it some times, but then realize I needed an extra house to keep it in!).
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