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  #41  
Old 04-23-2011, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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Originally Posted by latzanimal View Post
Harry, I think round tube racks get bad raps from guys who either didn't take the time to set it up correctly, were to cheap to set it up correctly, or didn't use any common sense in setting up there rack. The bias against is unfounded and for anyone to dismiss them without actually trying them is silly.

You are obviously free to use whatever you want. I just hate to see misinformation spread...
I'm with 100% on this. I use a normal Gibraltar rack & I have had no issues what so ever. super strong, quick set up everything works great.

Yes the 1st time I put everything together it took a while BUT after that everythings golden.
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  #42  
Old 04-23-2011, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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Andy, glad you've found something..

Harry, as you can see I don't use any memory locks for any of my clamps on my rack. I have never had anything slip, although I'll admit my rack and clamps are not your ordinary run of the mill stuff...

Holy crap Latz, that's not a rack, it's a construction site, lol! Looks very cool. I'm just leaving out to set up for tonight's show. If I had your setup, I'd have left out this time yesterday!

& yes guys, I'm very happy. I cut a deal with Wes, & he's hopefully sending me the rack next week, once we've sorted out shipping. As a side note, Wes is everything you'd expect a good drumming brother to be. Man, there's some great people on here!

As for tube racks in general. I had a tube rack 25+ years ago. Yes, I did have to really tighten stuff down, & sometimes it did slip, but that was old technology, and nothing like the build of today. The engineer in me says that not round makes more sense in terms of stability, etc, but I'm sure the modern stuff is good to go.

Enjoy your racks guys!!!!!
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  #43  
Old 04-23-2011, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

I tried. Your loss. :) Sorry I am just as biased as everyone else. :) I like my drums to stand out, not my rack. To each his own.
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  #44  
Old 04-23-2011, 08:18 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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As for tube racks in general. I had a tube rack 25+ years ago. Yes, I did have to really tighten stuff down, & sometimes it did slip, but that was old technology, and nothing like the build of today. The engineer in me says that not round makes more sense in terms of stability, etc, but I'm sure the modern stuff is good to go.
Glad you pursued the Yamaha hex rack, KIS, it's gonna look steller with your proto-type drum project.
And it all came together in a matter of, 1 day, 2 days? Seek, and ye shall find....
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  #45  
Old 04-23-2011, 10:23 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
Hey guys ... if round tube works for you ... more power to ya. Personally, I've just seen way too many round tube rack failures on Hollywood stages
You mean "round tube rack USER failures". :) Unless you're speaking about older systems, of which I have no knowledge.
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  #46  
Old 04-26-2011, 08:58 AM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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Holy crap Latz, that's not a rack, it's a construction site, lol! Looks very cool. I'm just leaving out to set up for tonight's show. If I had your setup, I'd have left out this time yesterday!

& yes guys, I'm very happy. I cut a deal with Wes, & he's hopefully sending me the rack next week, once we've sorted out shipping. As a side note, Wes is everything you'd expect a good drumming brother to be. Man, there's some great people on here!

As for tube racks in general. I had a tube rack 25+ years ago. Yes, I did have to really tighten stuff down, & sometimes it did slip, but that was old technology, and nothing like the build of today. The engineer in me says that not round makes more sense in terms of stability, etc, but I'm sure the modern stuff is good to go.

Enjoy your racks guys!!!!!
Andy, that monstrosity could be set up in 30 minutes. I usually took my time and it was closer to an hour, but on multiple band bills, it was on and off stage in less than 15 minutes which was much faster than most guys with smaller kits..

Glad you found something you are happy with....
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  #47  
Old 05-20-2011, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

Update to this thread, the Hexrack parts arrived today, whoohoooo! I've been communicating with Wes on this frequently, & just wanted to say what a superb guy he is. Not only was he a joy to deal with, but the stuff arrived exactly as expected, packed with care, & in great condition. What a pleasure it is to deal drummer to drummer, & this site made that possible. Thanks Bernhard!! To anyone wishing to deal with Wes in the future, have no doubt that he's a true gentleman of Drummerworld. Thanks Wes, so much appreciated!

Your drumming brother, Andy.
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  #48  
Old 05-20-2011, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

Im so pleased that it worked out well. You got it today?
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  #49  
Old 05-21-2011, 06:58 AM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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Im so pleased that it worked out well. You got it today?
Arrived at my house Thursday Wes, but I was away, so only picked them up myself on Friday. Thanks again, great stuff, & good luck in Germany. It'll be a few weeks yet, but I'll get pictures up when the experimental kit's ready.
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  #50  
Old 05-21-2011, 07:49 AM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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Originally Posted by timmdrum View Post
You mean "round tube rack USER failures". :) Unless you're speaking about older systems, of which I have no knowledge.
http://diy.gibraltarhardware.com/ind...hardware-rack/
Here's a Gibraltar video ... made by them ... note the guy in the video "telling" people to (at around 2:50) to use a memory lock, to avoid "slippage" problems .... and if mounting something real heavy (around 5:10), to use two memory locks, one on each side of the clamp.
Now, the way I figure it, if Gibraltar is addressing slippage issues twice in their own sponsored video, hmmmm ... then maybe, just maybe .... there are slippage issues happening .... or would Gibraltar go to the effort of addressing a non-issue by mentioning it twice in their own video.
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Update to this thread, the Hexrack parts arrived today, whoohoooo!
Glad to hear it's all working out for you ... KIS ... your Yamaha hexrack brotha man ... hc
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  #51  
Old 05-21-2011, 11:33 AM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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Glad to hear it's all working out for you ... KIS ... your Yamaha hexrack brotha man ... hc
Thanks "H", I'll get some shots up in a few weeks time. Just finished doing the basic layout & setup. I used my Spaun as a mule for the new drums, as they're similar sizes.
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  #52  
Old 05-21-2011, 12:08 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

Ok, just took these shots while I'm messing with the setup. This rack is not for my Spauns, they just happen to be of similar size.
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  #53  
Old 05-21-2011, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

That beautiful drum kit covered up by that gimmicky looking rack. The horrors. :( Did I say that out loud. :)
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  #54  
Old 05-21-2011, 03:50 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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That beautiful drum kit covered up by that gimmicky looking rack. The horrors. :( Did I say that out loud. :)
Hahaha, guess I'm just missing a few ton of rocks! Well, buddy boy, when the new kit is ready, I'll shoot some photo's on my boulder & waterfall feature. All 370 tons of it!!!!!!!! I'm all revved up for the "who's got the biggest rock drum riser" pissing contest.

I'm quite pleased with how the rack features the drums actually. Notice there's no cymbals or arms in front or above the toms. That's useful to feature my new (that some will doubtless find ugly) drum design, but also to allow for distance micing of the toms. The basic rack shape idea, I've stolen from Wes.
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  #55  
Old 05-21-2011, 04:17 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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Ok, just took these shots while I'm messing with the setup. This rack is not for my Spauns, they just happen to be of similar size.
Very cool setup KIS!....
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  #56  
Old 05-21-2011, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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Hahaha, guess I'm just missing a few ton of rocks! Well, buddy boy, when the new kit is ready, I'll shoot some photo's on my boulder & waterfall feature. All 370 tons of it!!!!!!!! I'm all revved up for the "who's got the biggest rock drum riser" pissing contest.

I'm quite pleased with how the rack features the drums actually. Notice there's no cymbals or arms in front or above the toms. That's useful to feature my new (that some will doubtless find ugly) drum design, but also to allow for distance micing of the toms. The basic rack shape idea, I've stolen from Wes.
You've done a great job with the setup. I am just biased and giving you a hard time. I am glad you did not put all kinds of stuff in front of the drums. That is my biggest complaint with most peoples rack setups. You can't ever see the shells. To me the rack should always just be the support system, not the focal point. That is the main reason I did not go the yamaha route. It is just a bit too flashy. :) The yamaha rack looks better on a sparkle kit in my opinion. Your next step is to try and get all the badges facing out, instead of the mounts. :)

I also like how you kept the main front rack tight around the bass drum. We need to all start a rack club where we can share ideas. We might get into trouble if we call it a rack club. :) Maybe a Drum Structural Support Group. The DSSG
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  #57  
Old 05-21-2011, 05:07 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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You've done a great job with the setup. I am just biased and giving you a hard time. I am glad you did not put all kinds of stuff in front of the drums. That is my biggest complaint with most peoples rack setups. You can't ever see the shells. To me the rack should always just be the support system, not the focal point. That is the main reason I did not go the yamaha route. It is just a bit too flashy. :) The yamaha rack looks better on a sparkle kit in my opinion. Your next step is to try and get all the badges facing out, instead of the mounts. :)

I also like how you kept the main front rack tight around the bass drum. We need to all start a rack club where we can share ideas. We might get into trouble if we call it a rack club. :) Maybe a Drum Structural Support Group. The DSSG
All's cool, I know you're pulling my string. There's a few things we can agree on. The first is, this would be the wrong rack for the Spaun. It detracts too much from the simple lines. That said, the Spaun is a gigging kit, & the Pearl Icon rack is very fussy by comparison to this setup, but it is a catch all setup & it's a fast setup & breakdown.

The new kit design needs no such subtlety. It'll take the Yamaha rack head on in the bling departement. Again, the look of the drums will be challenging to many, but this new baby's all about the sound, & the design dictates the look, not the other way around.

Just to repeat, the "snug up" around the kick drum design is a straight theft from Wes.
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  #58  
Old 05-21-2011, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

OK. Who is Wes and what new drums are you talking about. Are they a secret until you get them done?
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  #59  
Old 05-21-2011, 05:21 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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OK. Who is Wes and what new drums are you talking about. Are they a secret until you get them done?
Wes is the DW member I bought the rack from. He shipped them to me from Holland last week. His kit is pictured further down this thread, complete with this rack (Wes just sold me the rack parts, he's kept the booms & other gear).

As for the new kit, oh yes, huge secret. A genuine world first, & they'll be revealed exclusively here first. A long time in the design & tooling phase, we're now on the home run. Should be assembling them in 3-4 weeks time. This rack + a completely new set of Amedia Dervish cymbals are all specifically for this new design of kit.
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  #60  
Old 05-21-2011, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

I will be waiting on pins and needles. :) What is the expected due date
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  #61  
Old 05-21-2011, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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I will be waiting on pins and needles. :) What is the expected due date
Assembling in 3-4 weeks, but probably a couple of months before I release info, photo's & video footage due to trademark & potential patent arrangements. Then again, if it's a sack of crap, I'll just melt into the background, lol!
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  #62  
Old 05-21-2011, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

For good times sake:
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  #63  
Old 05-21-2011, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

Glory hound. :) Nice looking kit. I like the red. So what are you changing to in the way of drums and hardware.
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Old 05-21-2011, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

From the red, Hex racked oak in 10x8, 12x9, 14x12, 16x14 and 20x17 Oak Custom to...

A stands mounted 26x14 (virgin) 12x8, 16x16, 18x16, 20x14 (to gong converted kick with SubKick build in) Recording Standard/Custom (not using the 10x8)

Got rid of the Roc n Soc as well and using a DS950 seat (soon with backrest)

Im planning on buying the Drum Plates again as well. They didn't made real sense with a rack (other then clearer sound) but with all the stands they are quite handy.
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  #65  
Old 05-21-2011, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

So tell me

Why are you going from a rack to stands
Why from Oak to Maple, or whatever the new shell makeup is
Why the new configuration.
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  #66  
Old 05-21-2011, 06:41 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

The Rack was most of the time used with my percussion setup witch meant that it was laying on the self most of the time (when played out I used a kit that was at the location or used my own kit with or without rack)

From Oak to Birch just happened and turned out really really well and the new config is because i'm from start a rock player and this configuration suits my needs better now. Not the least that I like this setup (with the 12'' in the snare basket) so much more. Should have done this years a go. To me its more ergonomic than my Oak setup I noticed.
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  #67  
Old 05-21-2011, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

The hex rack, and the Spaun kit (for mock-up) looks very cool, KIS ... for your prototype/new drums ... I think the Yamaha system was the way to go ... both round tube and square tube racks have been around .... forever ... or at least 30 years.
The hex, at least it's new ... a little more cutting edge/modern. And so will your new drums be. Excellent choice...
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Old 05-21-2011, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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a little more cutting edge/modern. And so will your new drums be.
Fingers crossed Harry, here's hoping. Loving the rack, but it wouldn't be as practical as the Pearl rack for road work. Better built & nicer to look at though. Cheers Harry (sorry, new Hexbro')
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  #69  
Old 05-22-2011, 02:54 AM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

Looks great! I like the cymbal arms going out--very cool.

I'm not big on racks myself, but this looks pretty cool.

MusiQmaN, nice on the 14x26.

I use a (8x)12-16-18 with a 26 in one of my set-ups, and it's a nice combo.
Snare basket as well.

Have fun guy's!!!!
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Old 05-22-2011, 08:27 AM
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Have fun guy's!!!!
Cheers KC. Putting a new project together is always fun, but usually equally frustrating too. Ah well, if there's no challenge, the smile is always smaller & fades quickly.
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Old 05-22-2011, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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Cheers KC. Putting a new project together is always fun, but usually equally frustrating too. Ah well, if there's no challenge, the smile is always smaller & fades quickly.
Hey! I like that little saying. Now only if I can remember it. I must use it in one of my future songs. Do I have to pay you royalties. :)
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Old 05-22-2011, 10:14 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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http://diy.gibraltarhardware.com/ind...hardware-rack/
Here's a Gibraltar video ... made by them ... note the guy in the video "telling" people to (at around 2:50) to use a memory lock, to avoid "slippage" problems .... and if mounting something real heavy (around 5:10), to use two memory locks, one on each side of the clamp.
Now, the way I figure it, if Gibraltar is addressing slippage issues twice in their own sponsored video, hmmmm ... then maybe, just maybe .... there are slippage issues happening .... or would Gibraltar go to the effort of addressing a non-issue by mentioning it twice in their own video.

I guess they have to cover their butts for the idiots who don't use the gear correctly. Besides, memory locks certainly help curtail potential slippage issues, but that doesn't insinuate that slippage is imminent, or even likely, without them.
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:06 AM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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[/indent]I guess they have to cover their butts for the idiots who don't use the gear correctly. Besides, memory locks certainly help curtail potential slippage issues, but that doesn't insinuate that slippage is imminent, or even likely, without them.
Having watched the video in detail, I have to conclude that slippage is clearly an issue. Yes, they could be advising the use of memory clamps to guard against those that fail to secure their hardware correctly, but that's an admission of design limitation in it's own right, & it's inclusion would certainly have been resisted strongly by their marketing department unless it was hurting sales. The other reason I know there's the potential for slippage, is I have two drummer friends who have their rack system, but use it only for home setup due to this issue. They use 2 x memory clamps for anything bigger than a 12" tom, or anything that requires a significant overhang. I'm not dissing this product, it is what it is, & at a pricepoint that offers good value for money.

There is a plain untruth in the video. It claims that the Pearl clamps will only accept a specific tube size. That's totally incorrect. I have a DRC rack and the standard clamp will accept a range of diametres. The standard Hexrack tom/cymbal arm doesn't though, but you can (or rather, could) get a clamp that does. The fixed foot vertical position observation is largely a non issue too in the vast majority of setups. The fixed bar claim is valid, but anyone with reasonable tool skills can chop a Pearl bar down. I did.

Finally, as a successful design engineer, I think I have an eye to potential trip points. Fact: Trying to clamp onto an annular form with a very smooth surface finish (low coeficient of friction) using only compression force means you're always going to have an uphill battle. There are limits to what you can hang off such an arrangement without additional clamping surface area. Nothing wrong with that, it just is what it is. & just for balance, I've already found at least two design flaws in the Yamaha Hexrack system, so perfection isn't available irrespective of price, it never is!
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  #74  
Old 05-23-2011, 10:10 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Having watched the video in detail, I have to conclude that slippage is clearly an issue. Yes, they could be advising the use of memory clamps to guard against those that fail to secure their hardware correctly, but that's an admission of design limitation in it's own right
I never said it wasn't an issue, period; only that it's not a fundamental design limitation in and of itself when proper, common sense use prevents it from occurring. The only design limitation is that it's not idiot-proof. With proper use, the only time slippage would occur would be when an INSANELY large amount of weight was hung by a single clamp sans memory lock. Again, I have had a cymbal holder with a 20" Sabian AA medium ride and a 12x14 Mapex tom hanging from a single clamp, with no memory lock, for 11 years (well, before the Mapex kit it was a Pacific CX tom, and before that, a 16x16 Tama Rockstar) and it's never slipped. NEVER. I tighten the clamp down admittedly with a good bit of elbow grease but not white-knuckling it. So, I stand by my comments that just because something CAN happen, doesn't mean that there's a fundamental design flaw, when proper use prevents it. Any cymbal stand wingnut CAN fail at any moment; is it a design flaw?

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
it's inclusion would certainly have been resisted strongly by their marketing department unless it was hurting sales.
That can't be inferred from one person's statement. We'd need the marketing dept. to confirm. :)

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
The other reason I know there's the potential for slippage, is I have two drummer friends who have their rack system, but use it only for home setup due to this issue. They use 2 x memory clamps for anything bigger than a 12" tom, or anything that requires a significant overhang. I'm not dissing this product, it is what it is, & at a pricepoint that offers good value for money.
Well, of course there's the potential for slippage. Regarding your friends, though, I can only attest that, as I stated above, I hang much more weight than a single 12" tom with no memory lock and it doesn't slip. If they have this issue, they're not tightening it enough.

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
There is a plain untruth in the video. It claims that the Pearl clamps will only accept a specific tube size. That's totally incorrect. I have a DRC rack and the standard clamp will accept a range of diametres.
The old black powder-coated Pearl rack clamps were like this; I bought that one first, then exchanged it for the Gibraltar when I discovered none of my tom or cymbal holders would fit in the clamps that came with it. If different clamps were available, I didn't bother to find out.

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Finally, as a successful design engineer, I think I have an eye to potential trip points. Fact: Trying to clamp onto an annular form with a very smooth surface finish (low coeficient of friction) using only compression force means you're always going to have an uphill battle. There are limits to what you can hang off such an arrangement without additional clamping surface area. Nothing wrong with that, it just is what it is. & just for balance, I've already found at least two design flaws in the Yamaha Hexrack system, so perfection isn't available irrespective of price, it never is!
I don't doubt anything you stated here, especially regarding weight limits. Maybe the clamps grip curved bars (which is what my rack consists of) better than straight ones...? All I know is my ride & 14" tom that are both mounted on the same cymbal holder, clamped without a memory lock, doesn't slip, nor did it when I had a 16x16 instead of the 14. Personally I don't need to hang anything heavier than all that from any single clamp, so I guess I've never reached the limits.
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  #75  
Old 05-24-2011, 09:39 AM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

Very nice Andy!! I love the compact footprint..

As far as the round, hex, square tube debate.... ugh. I don't have memory locks on my clamps and can stand on my floors without them moving on a round tubed rack. (As pictured earlier in this thread) I'm not small either. There is a review by a former professional drumtech who also worked at a store over on the Pearl forum. His conclusion was that there was no slipping on a round tube. Here is a link: http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/sh...ACKS-in-review

I'll maintain my original statement that anyone who does have problems is not setting it up right. Whether that reason is lack of experience/knowledge, too cheap to buy the necessary parts to do it correctly, or not using any common sense in their setup is left to each drummer..

Sorry to hijack..

Andy I like it...
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Old 05-24-2011, 02:40 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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Originally Posted by timmdrum View Post
The old black powder-coated Pearl rack clamps were like this; I bought that one first, then exchanged it for the Gibraltar when I discovered none of my tom or cymbal holders would fit in the clamps that came with it. If different clamps were available, I didn't bother to find out.
TD, I don't doubt for one minute that your rack does the job 100% and that you set it up properly to take full advantage of the clamp grip available. Similarly, the two drummers I mentioned are touring continually, & they do have issues that manifest themselves over time. I guess a heavy touring schedule tests any piece of equipment, & routine tightening should be part of the maintainance program.

On the Pearl clamp issue, I'm sure the older designs are more limited, but the DR range that's been out for a good few years, will accept any tube size (within reason). It's plain wrong for Gibraltar to make a claim that doesn't apply to a competitor's current production, & they should withdraw it. The Pearl rack they feature in that video is current production, & actually has the multi tube size clamp on it. That's just telling lies, pure & simple.

The straight truth is, no currently available rack is without either quality or design issues. Like everything else in drum gear land, it's a personal appraisal of features that mean something to you.
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Old 05-24-2011, 02:56 PM
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Default Re: Love Yamaha, but totally PO about Hexrack situation. Anything new out there?

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The straight truth is, no currently available rack is without either quality or design issues. Like everything else in drum gear land, it's a personal appraisal of features that mean something to you.
Except mine! :) Just kidding! Well said KIS.
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