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  #41  
Old 10-05-2005, 07:09 PM
aspenleaf aspenleaf is offline
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Default Re: overhead cymbal mics

Have you considered using large diaphragm mics? When I worked in a studio, we often used U87s for overheads. Since I'm not wealthy, in my home studio I sometimes use MXL V69MEs or Studio Projects B1s as overheads. They don't have the hyped high end that some of the other inexpensive mics do, and the cymbals record nice and smooth without any harshness. I also have used a matched pair of Superlux SMK-H8K small diaphragm mics as overheads and they sound good as well.
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  #42  
Old 10-05-2005, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: overhead cymbal mics

A pair of stereo Neumans will do the trick quite nicely. Warm and open.
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  #43  
Old 11-17-2005, 07:22 PM
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Default mics for lifeless toms?

hey all,

I have a tama rockstar kit. Here pretty soon i will need to get mics for big up coming shows, and if any of you great people can tell me what mics are the best for $200-500 range it would be most gracious of you.

jules
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  #44  
Old 12-01-2005, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: mics for lifeless toms?

NO microphone in the world is going to bring your lifeless toms to full sound. You must get your toms in tune for the mics. Remember, microphones always pick up what they hear.
Check out musicians friend .com or other dot com online music stores for Drum mic package deals.
Good Luck.
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  #45  
Old 12-01-2005, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: mics for lifeless toms?

The problem with rockstars is that they are soft Phillippine mahogany. And if they are older, they could have some flat spots on the bearing edge. They lack attack and projection compared to other drums.

What you need is a drumhead with a bright initial attack, and a resonant head that will sustain for a long time. This won't make the drum sustain as well as higher quality drums, but it will be *much* better than a medium or other cheap resonant head.

For a lifeless tom, get something like attack double thin, with evans black (thin) reso. That will wake the toms up dramatically with "attack",
and enhance sustain. Attack heads have the bright initial attack and a touch extra loudness over other 2-ply heads. The evans resos hold the sustain wide open.

Last edited by Thinshells; 12-01-2005 at 04:50 PM.
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  #46  
Old 12-07-2005, 05:48 PM
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Default Drum Microphones

God day fellow drumfriend..

i have a problem, somebody stole my drumics on our last gig, so now i have to buy new one..
Have anybody tried the Shure PGDMK4 pack? And are they any good? I dont need Superpro mic, just somebody with a decent sound..

Wega
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  #47  
Old 12-16-2005, 05:10 PM
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Default Audix mics (Fusion)

any good ???

i have a F-12 kick mic and it works alright (got it on a deal, that’s the only reason I only have one)

but i have only recorded with it once (on a djembe - it sounded ok but there were allot of over heads in the mix too)

im planning on pickin up a couple more Audix (maybe a D4 for the toms - or F-10's) and im not sure what kind for the snare yet (i have a couple steel/ brass /aluminum /wood) so if im stuck with one mic to work with i want it to be the best i cant afford (but at the sane time not limit me)

i just want to know your opinions on the audix F-series mics (are they ok - should i not waste my time) that sort of thing

thanks DW (im kinda new here)
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  #48  
Old 12-18-2005, 03:08 PM
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Default Re: Shure Drum Microphones

hey...

i know it's not what you asked...but i can really recommend the set from stagg...it's about 220€ for 7 mics and it's sound is simply incredible...the case is nice too, but that shouldn't be a criteria! you should IMO really consider buying those if you need good quality mics for a reasonable amount of cash!!

so long

Phil(thy)
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  #49  
Old 01-05-2006, 11:51 AM
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Default Mics Inside Drums - Who Does It?

Hi All,

Thanks for reading this post.

DW website lists kits for mounting mics inside drums. This seems like a great idea. Do any of you guys do it? Can anyone offer any tips/advice on it? What's the way to go when mounting the brackets? What are the pros & cons?

As I understand it:

PROS:

Ease of rigging - mics already set-up
No bleed from other drums/instruments - no feedback, keeps PA subs clear, specially in an aux-fed subs rig

CONS:

Possible extra drilling of shells?
Possible unwanted noise if mic mounting bracket not isolated (rubber washers/grommets?)?
Possible tendency of boomier drum sound?
Mic cables trailing from drums?

I play bass (please don't kick me out - I wish I could drum, and I actually tend to listen to drums in music before I listen to any other instrument) in a rock covers band, and have joined here on behalf of my drummer - he's not really a surfer.

Thanks again,

Mark
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  #50  
Old 01-05-2006, 01:07 PM
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Default Re: Mics Inside Drums - Who Does It?

There are mics made specifically for the inside the drums, but I wouldn't think it would sound better than regular mic'ing, other than in the kick.

Having a complete front head on the bass drum pretty much requires a mic inside unless you get fancy with multiple mics pointed at both heads, or you're playing jazz.

The kick drum is big enough where you can use a wireless system, and the power adaptor would probably be small enough to fit through the vent hole. Unfortunatly I don't think you can get a mic cable through your common drum unless you do some drilling, or you run a cable through the vent hole without it's end, and reattach the mic connecter to the bare wire.
You would use existing hardware to integrate the mounting system, which you can find with a search (and it would probably have shock-absorbtion).

I'm assuming that your drummer has some sort of muffling on his bass drum (most do, be it pillows or heads). This should prevent the sound from getting too boomy.

Neil Peart and Dave Weckl are amoung the drummers that play with front heads on their bass drums, and use mics inside them.

The big downside to having a mic mounted inside your drum is that if it becomes loose or moves, you have to take a head off to re-adjust it.
But it eliminates a possible tripping hazard out in front of the kit (as if we don't have enough of those on stage), and it can make it easier for the sound guy, although he might need to mess around with the knobs a bit if he's never worked with inside micing before.
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  #51  
Old 01-05-2006, 02:48 PM
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Default Re: Mics Inside Drums - Who Does It?

phaedrus asked me....
Quote:
Anyway, we have a few questions about placing mics inside drums.

1. Does there need to be any isolation between the mounting bracket and the shell? From your pics, it looks like you don't. Does/could this allow unwanted pick-up by the mics?
it can cause constructive and/or destructive interferance as well as damage to cheaper mics. my mounting is actually isolated. the black bit is a rubber clip on strip that i have inverted and wired/taped to a bicycle spanner.

Quote:
2. Where should the mic cable exit the shell? The 1/4" hole already in the shell needs to be kept free, doesn't it? Do you have to drill another hole?
the vent needs to remain free for propper funtioning of the drum. for my floot tom i was forced to drill a XLR sized hole and then i put in a countersunk female XLR jack into the shell. my tome were already drilled as they were from the generation of drums before float monting. so i used the exsisting hole which was (thankfully) almost XLR sized. these sunken XLR jacks anser your third question.

Quote:
3. The point is that the mics stay permanently fixed in the shell - I assume this includes the mic cable being permanently being attached to the mic - how is this cable connected to the snake/mixer? Long dangling loop that's un-coiled for gigs
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  #52  
Old 01-05-2006, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: Mics Inside Drums - Who Does It?

Quote:
There are mics made specifically for the inside the drums, but I wouldn't think it would sound better than regular mic'ing, other than in the kick.
the company that nakes dedicated internal mics is called 'may mics'. an excellent product that uses the capsules of leading mic companies (AKG, Shure and Senheiser), but May mics are ludicrously expensive. the reason is that there are two other pitfalls or internal micing that the company over comes and i have to an extent overcome through trial error. these are:
slap sounds
a sharp spikey slap even from a nicely tuned floor tom folloed by the tone of the drum. terrible. sounds like and explosive click and hurts the ears.
tube sounds
can amply be demonstrated using a christmas paper wrapping inner tube. ask your mom to tak to you through it. here voice sounds all hollow. it makes a tom sound like a basket ball...not good.
both these are avoided by perfectly correctly placed quality mics, but this is where the difficultly arrives. as you muddle your way through placement you have to take a whole head of each time and retune. through trial and error i have found an angle of about 45 degrees to the head and a distance of three inches seems o work but this changes with the make of mic and diaphragm size sp be warned.

i will type more on this topic and include some pictures later.

j
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  #53  
Old 01-05-2006, 03:56 PM
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Default Re: Mics Inside Drums - Who Does It?

Sounds like a terrible idea to me - you'd have to be super careful between gigs not to dislodge the mics inside the drums...and if you did you'd have to re-tune...

Also I image the sound from inside the drum is really different from the outside.

As far as the kick drum goes Bonham had no hole, he miced the beater side as well. He had quite a good sound, don’t you think.

Mics on stage are a little annoying, but not that much of a pain…a good sound guy can mic a kit in a matter of minutes and get a good sound. (it's there job)

This seems kinda over the top to me…but whatever works for some don’t work for others…(do many of the pros do this?)

(You’re a bass player right? Ok this explains things.).
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  #54  
Old 01-05-2006, 06:53 PM
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Default Re: Mics Inside Drums - Who Does It?

Quote:
you'd have to be super careful between gigs not to dislodge the mics inside the drums
not if you make the mounts strong enough. i also tape the mics in place.

Quote:
Also I image the sound from inside the drum is really different from the outside.
that's tube sound but there are ways around it.

Quote:
Mics on stage are a little annoying, but not that much of a pain…a good sound guy can mic a kit in a matter of minutes and get a good sound. (it's there job)
unless you don't have a sound guy...then its your job and mic set up and tear down can add a ver fiddley 20 minutes to your time.

Quote:
…(do many of the pros do this?)
a lot of pros do have sound guys and roadies etc and so have no need to worry about anything other than showing up ready to play. that said i often find pictures of pro drum kits with maymics here and there if you know what to look for.



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  #55  
Old 01-09-2006, 04:06 PM
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Default Re: Mics Inside Drums - Who Does It?

So the cons might be:

Wierd sound because we don't usually hear a drum from the inside - this can probably be eq'd/processed till it's closer to the usual sound?

Possible movement of mics, necessitating pain-in-the-@rse retuning, etc.

Has/does anyone use ported resonant heads on toms? Mics could then be mounted inside, and access would be available to reposition if necessary. It might produce a more traditional sound too?

Mark
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  #56  
Old 01-09-2006, 05:07 PM
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Default Re: Mics Inside Drums - Who Does It?

Using ported reso heads on toms is not efficient as any hole on a reso head should be roughly less than ten percent of the toal surface area...any more and you may as well not have a reso because it won't make a sound. since the hole would need to be big enough for your hand it would be too big a hole for anything smaller than an 18'' floor tom. so the obvious solution is to set up without reso heads (a la phil collins).

j

ps: for more on ports (particularly bass drum ports) google the tuning bible.
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  #57  
Old 01-10-2006, 09:44 AM
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Default Re: Mics Inside Drums - Who Does It?

Yes, without reso heads then you would have accessability to the mics, but at the expense of your drum's sustain. That could be a good thing...depending on what you're after.
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  #58  
Old 01-10-2006, 04:17 PM
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Default Re: Mics Inside Drums - Who Does It?

i came accross pickups for drums the other day while surfing. yep, much like a guitar pickup. they seem to be a far better alternative than internal miking. dont know how it all sounds though.

check it out

http://www.b-band.com/drum-systems/
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  #59  
Old 01-25-2006, 01:29 AM
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Default Recording with 2 mics

I currently have two instrument microphones, and I want to know where to place them to record my drums as best as possible. I have a 6 piece mapex m-birch fusion set, with a 21" ride, 10"splash,15" crash, 16" crash, and 14"hi-hats.

where should I place my 2 mics for recording?
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  #60  
Old 01-25-2006, 01:49 AM
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Default Re: Recording with 2 mics

I would say pointing diagonaly into the kit from about 4-5 feet away. This way you should get a decent enough, open sound.

It will never sound brilliant but I have been in the same situation before and if you put a little time into getting the mic placement right you can get a good recording given the circumstances.
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  #61  
Old 01-25-2006, 02:22 AM
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Default Re: Recording with 2 mics

So if i put the mics diagnolly 4-5 away from the kit, how high up should the mics be?
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  #62  
Old 01-25-2006, 07:16 AM
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Default Re: Recording with 2 mics

I would say use one mic for your bass drum, and the other for an overhead. It will be in mono, but I think it would sound better than two overheads.
If you decide you want to use two overheads, the easiest way to get a good sound is to put them both above your head, pointed opposite ways but with the tips almost touching.



This prevents phase problems which sometimes happen when mics are spaced apart.
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  #63  
Old 02-06-2006, 10:03 PM
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Default Recording With Four Mics?

Hi, I was thinking of purchasing a Fostex MR8-HD, which allows four track simultaneous recording, to do some amateur recording of my kit.

I was wondering what would be the best four piece mic set-up to use? Most four piece kits I've been looking at have 3 snare/tom mics and 1 kick drum mic. I'm guessing having at least one overhead would be a better set-up?

I'm thinking of using either one kick, one snare, and two overheads. Or, one kick, one snare, one tom in between my two floor toms, and one overhead.

Does anyone have any suggestions about a four mic set-up like these? Are overheads also good for picking up toms?

Here are some pics of my kit, if that will help. http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=7631
Also, i have some soundproofing foam behind, above and hanging in front of my kit.

Thanks for any help!
Suds
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  #64  
Old 02-06-2006, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: Recording With Four Mics?

Here's a solo I did in my studio. If you have any questions about recording I can help.
Kick, Snare and 2 Overhead mics is all you need to start.
I have a Ludwig 6.5x14 Supraphonic as well. Actually my entire kit is all Ludwig.
http://www.soundclick.com/pro/view/0...=main&songid=0
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  #65  
Old 02-06-2006, 11:14 PM
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Default Re: Recording With Four Mics?

Ok, thanks. Looks like I'll be going with the two overheads, a snare, and a kick.

I love your solo. The sound is incredible. I take it you used more than four mikes to get that sound?

What do you recommend for mics in the $200-$300 range? I'm wondering if I should just get a six piece kit that comes with the two overheads. Then I will also have the two extra snare/tom mics If I ever need them. I have not found a four piece with the two overheads.
Maybe I should just buy them individually?

Thanks again!
Suds
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  #66  
Old 02-07-2006, 02:50 AM
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Default Bass drum mic recommendation

I gonna buy a few microphones to do some recording and was hoping to get a recommendation for a BD mic. I don't want to spend a fortune, but want something decent.

Currently, I'm considering the Shure Beta 52: http://www.music123.com/Shure-Beta-52-i63519.music
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  #67  
Old 02-07-2006, 03:14 AM
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Default Re: Recording With Four Mics?

I used a mic on each drum plus hi hats and 2 overheads. My recommendatio to you is to start with a 4 mic pac and add more mics later.
Samson makes great mic packages, I highly recommend them Good and P.M. anytime you have questions about recording.
Thanks for your compliments about my solo as well.
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  #68  
Old 02-07-2006, 03:18 AM
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Default Re: Recording With Four Mics?

I would recommend buying just two microphones to start with - get two of the best cartoid condensers you can afford, they make such a difference. With a couple of good condensers you can get a long way towards a nice drum sound as long as your drums sound good on their own in the room.

The only thing that will be missing in the a big way is a bit of the snare drum top head tone and the low-end from the bass drum, so adding those microphones later once you can afford a Shure SM57 and an AKG D112 seems the smarter approach. That way you'll end up with some very usable live microphones too.

Most cheap drum microphone packages are pretty lacking, IMHO, and if you're just recording into a 4-track then you're not going to have the extensive EQ and dynamic processing available that makes close-miking a kit work.

So yes - best overheads you can afford, the rest later!
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  #69  
Old 02-07-2006, 04:33 AM
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Default Re: Bass drum mic recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanz
I gonna buy a few microphones to do some recording and was hoping to get a recommendation for a BD mic. I don't want to spend a fortune, but want something decent.

Currently, I'm considering the Shure Beta 52: http://www.music123.com/Shure-Beta-52-i63519.music
If the shure isn't doing the job any longer, I ran accross this info that might be helpful
http://www.sweetwater.com/support/su..._recording.php
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  #70  
Old 02-07-2006, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: Bass drum mic recommendation

I used to have a Beta 52...seemed great to me, but everyone dogged it in favor of the AKG D-112.

I dunno, any higher end from any brand will do better than the cheap Nadys and stuff like that.
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  #71  
Old 02-07-2006, 01:51 PM
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Default Re: Recording With Four Mics?

Hey Finn,

I have an sm57 for my snare and a D-112 for the kick. What good overheads should I get? I used to have 1 Shure SM-82, but two of them would be a bit spendy. Can 1 suffice for an overhead?

Stu
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  #72  
Old 02-07-2006, 02:12 PM
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Default Re: Recording With Four Mics?

1 OH is good for now but I'd recommend 2 for the future. The 2 OH set up is great for stereo image of the cymbals and the ambieance of the kit mixed in with the closed mics. I highly recommend long term you go with 2 OH's'. I use Shure SM 81's for OH and Hi Hats.
Hope this helps/
Good Luck Stu.
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  #73  
Old 02-07-2006, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Bass drum mic recommendation

Yeah, it will either be the Beta 52 or the D112. Anyone have a good comparison?
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  #74  
Old 02-07-2006, 09:06 PM
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Default Re: Bass drum mic recommendation

I have a Beta 52 and I'm quite happy with it. I don't have any personal experience, but I've heard that the old AKG's are the ones to go for- but if you're buying new, the quality currently coming from shure is better than that currently coming from AKG.
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  #75  
Old 02-08-2006, 12:19 AM
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Default Re: Bass drum mic recommendation

I ended up getting the Beta 52. Musician's Friend has a nice package: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...ess?sku=270263
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  #76  
Old 02-08-2006, 12:54 AM
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Default Re: Recording With Four Mics?

The SM-81's are nice. I'm currently using two EV N/D408A's and the sound is transparent with nice presence and easy to mix.
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  #77  
Old 02-16-2006, 08:15 PM
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Default recording with 2 mics

i have an akg c1000s condenser and a sure sm58. what is the best way to position them? i have the sm58 in the bass and c1000 over head and have been experimenting but was wondering if anyone could think of the best place to put the mics to get a good overall sound. thanks ben
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  #78  
Old 02-16-2006, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: recording with 2 mics

I think you've got the right idea with one overhead and one in the bass drum. Aside from just trying whatever crazy ideas pop into your head, I suggest moving the the C1000 around to hear the difference. That doesn't mean just move it around overhead. Also try out in front of the kit, at the far end of the room, and maybe even down the hall (you may have to align the tracks if the two mic's are too far apart; check the waveforms for that step).

The other thing you can do is rent more mic's (and cables and stands etc.).
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  #79  
Old 02-17-2006, 12:23 AM
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Default Re: recording with 2 mics

Recording with only two mics will really make it tough to get a good sound. Especially two different type of mics. If you are doing casual just for fun recording then it will work ok, but if you want to make something a little better quality more mics would be a must.

Usually if only two mics are available and they are the same type, usually two condenser mics, then they are placed out in front (not real far out in front though) and slightly above the drums at a angle towards the drum. The mics themselves are set up very close to each other and I recommend pointing them so they form a 90 degree angle, so one side is pointed towards the left of the drums and the other is pointed towards the right. By panning the mics to left and right you achieve a stereo sound, which is a must for any decent drum sound. My audio engineering teacher always says "mono sucks", and for drums that really true.

If your using a third mic for the kick, then the mics should be set up stereo style again, but placed above the drums, pointed down towards the drums. The reason for placing the mic out in front of the drums in the earlier example was to pick up the kick, but if you have it separately miced then over head is a must. From here you can add a mic on the snare, and from there high hat, and lastly toms (only if you can mic all of them).

If purchasing another condenser is a problem, then I would recommend the 58 on the kick and the AKG as a overhead, over the center of the drums, maybe about a foot or so above your head, to really pic up the whole picture. A 58 isn't really designed to be used on a kick drum, but it will do if your just doing something for fun. The Shure SM52 is a really cool kick drum mic, a little more expensive though. They also make a PG52, which is cheaper but I don't know how much cheaper.

I hope this helped, and let us know how it sounds!
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Old 02-17-2006, 12:58 AM
stairway27 stairway27 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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Default Re: recording with 2 mics

Okay, here's my 2 cents. Having done a ton of recording both in pro studios and at home, if I had 2 mics, I'd place one in front of the drums about 3 feet away aimed at where the toms meet the kick drum. If you can, compress this mic. You'll get a good amount of kick drum without having to put a mic in the kick itself and you'll get a good amount of the mounted toms, plus cymbals.

Depending on how hard you hit your drums, the floor tom and snare won't be as prominent in what the main mic is picking up. So, put the other mic on the snare. Between the two, you should be able to get a decent, usable sound and you'll have the snare isolated for effects, if you use 'em. Alternatively, if you have a big room and leakage is not an issue, you could place one mic behind and above the kit pointing towards the snare drum and put the other mic on the kick. Again, compress the main mic, if possible, to help balance the kit. This will give you a more "Bonham-y" type sound and you can use the kick mic to add some "boom" to the main mic.

Also, since you have limited mics, don't be afraid to use EQ to help bring out different drums when using the one main mic. A little EQ in the right frequency can bring out the snare, toms, kick, etc.

Final comment, while I generally agree that recording drums in stereo produces a more "natural" sound, a lot of the early Zep stuff was mono drums and I doubt anyone can seriously say that the drums on the first two Zep records sucked. You'd be surprised how many great records had mono drums, even when stereo was the norm. A lot of Queen records have mono drums (guess they used all the other tracks for vocals and guitar!) and most people don't even notice it.

I think you just need to experiment with your 2 mics, your room, some compression and EQ and you'll be fine. Hope that helps.
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