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Old 04-14-2011, 10:06 AM
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Default Internal drum dampner where did they go?

My drumteacher has a classic Rogers kit with internal dampner and a new Ludwig Classic Maple were he installed them himself.
I just ordered a new Classic Maple kit and didnt see the option or dont have the option for internal dampning.
Are there any drum companys stil installing it with there kits or option to?
Why has it gone to moongel and dampning rings, because alot of classic kits seemed to have it standard?
Only thing I see wrong with it is a other screw in your shell and a small object inside your drum.
Do you have any online stores selling the ludwig internal dampning or any other brands.
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Old 04-14-2011, 10:19 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

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Originally Posted by HoM3R View Post
My drumteacher has a classic Rogers kit with internal dampner and a new Ludwig Classic Maple were he installed them himself.
I just ordered a new Classic Maple kit and didnt see the option or dont have the option for internal dampning.
Are there any drum companys stil installing it with there kits or option to?
Why has it gone to moongel and dampning rings, because alot of classic kits seemed to have it standard?
Only thing I see wrong with it is a other screw in your shell and a small object inside your drum.
Do you have any online stores selling the ludwig internal dampning or any other brands.
Oddly enough, it was Rogers that marketed the first device to sound the death knell of the internal dampener. In the 70s, Rogers created a product that clipped the dampener to the drum rim and rest on top of the head. They even explained how a muffling device that went with the head when struck, as opposed to pushing up on the head made the drum sound more natural.

Then as the craze of the search for ever truer-sounding drums accelerated, many people jumped on this same bandwagon and began to remove their internal mufflers in the hopes of eliminating anything that would eventually rattle or come loose and ruin a perfectly recorded take. Then people began to use rings from old heads to muffle the batter heads, and for the most part it worked. I think the moongel products came in when some folks thought they needed more mufling. I don't think there are any companies mounting internal muffling devices anymore. Although I may be wrong since I found a newer Ludwig Black Galaxy Acrolite snare and it had an internal muffler.
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Old 04-14-2011, 10:44 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

As a non-fan of dampeners, moon gel, "dampened" heads, etc., I don't miss them at all. When I get a drum that I actually use on a consistent basis, I take them off the shell...they make rattling noise when not engaged, and I'm not one to engage them. Well, except for the Pratt muffler on my round badge bass drum...THAT thing is SWEET!!!
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Old 04-14-2011, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

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Originally Posted by HoM3R View Post
Why has it gone to moongel and dampning rings, because alot of classic kits seemed to have it standard?
Seems to me that the internal muffler going the way of the dodo pretty much coincided with the advancements in head technology. With the sheer amount of pre-muffled heads available, along with self-dampening products like Moongel et al, they're pretty much redundant. My experience with them always had me thinking they were useless. They were shot on both the old Premier kit I learned to play on and the old man's Luddy's, all the bloody things did was rattle around internally. If you really want them for nostalgic purposes, then why not.......but in a practical sense, I reckon there are better dampening options in the moden era.

Last edited by Pocket-full-of-gold; 04-14-2011 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 04-14-2011, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

I still keep mufflers on my snare drums if they were originally equiped with one.I use plastic tubing to take the rattle out the mufflers and it works like a charm.Sometimes that muffler just barely touching the head is all you need to take out just the right amount of ring.

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Old 04-15-2011, 12:04 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

I think they went the way of better drum heads with dampening built it and better materials than the calf skin that was first used.
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:04 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

2112 drum has the Ludwigs for sale

http://www.2112online.com/cgi/shop/d...gi?r=LUDP40662
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:11 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

When I had drums with internal mufflers, I always removed them. I am glad new drums do not have them. Just one guy's opinion. Peace and goodwill.
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:37 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

There are still several Ludwig drums in production with internal dampeners.

This same topic is being discussed on another forum.

It seems to be in vogue to trash them. I personally think they did and still do have a place.
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:12 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

I like them, but not for their intended use. I installed one on my 16" kick so I could raise or lower the tone of it without having to tune between songs. For a higher tone I would engage the dampner and it would put more tension on the head. I think it is great for that purpose. Sounds pretty good on my Supras too. You can back off some of the honk when you need to.
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Old 04-15-2011, 06:22 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

The Pearl ones (70s) used to rattle but a bit of gaff fixed that...

The Gretsch ones (80s) worked really well...

Now I find that the Aquarian dampener rings work quite well and I don't miss the internal dampeners.
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  #12  
Old 04-15-2011, 06:51 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

I have them on my 1965 vintage set of drums. Although I usually keep them away from the batter head, sometimes they do have an advantage if you want to quickly get a different sound out of your kit without having to retuning it. Years ago, once in a while I did get a little noise from the dampener in the 13" tom, but it was easily remedied. You can barely see the adjustment knob facing the bottom of the picture on the 16" floor tom. The last kit I played that had dampeners installed was an old Slingerland outfit in "white marine pearl", it too was super cool.



Dennis
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  #13  
Old 04-16-2011, 09:46 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Oddly enough, it was Rogers that marketed the first device to sound the death knell of the internal dampener. In the 70s, Rogers created a product that clipped the dampener to the drum rim and rest on top of the head. They even explained how a muffling device that went with the head when struck, as opposed to pushing up on the head made the drum sound more natural.
And Rogers were right, more specifically, an internal damper reduces attack as well as sustain. It curtails the initial deformation of the head that pushes the most air. If you must use dampers, use the external variety.
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Old 04-16-2011, 11:25 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

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And Rogers were right, more specifically, an internal damper reduces attack as well as sustain. It curtails the initial deformation of the head that pushes the most air. If you must use dampers, use the external variety.
But what really got people into tuning toms correctly was the fact that after you bought the Rogers newfangled external dampners, you quickly lost them ;)
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Old 04-16-2011, 11:40 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

I had them pre installed (must have been the previous owner) on the 12' and 16'' and I like them when used with the Fiberskyn heads when needed in a setting. I even like them rarely on the pins (almost not touching the head) and even get a full tone out of the toms (gotta love the RC)

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Old 04-16-2011, 11:43 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
But what really got people into tuning toms correctly was the fact that after you bought the Rogers newfangled external dampners, you quickly lost them ;)
Ha, yes, so perhaps they were a good thing after all. With the range of heads available these days, more accurate shells, etc, there's no excuse for bad tuning or reliance on dampening for all but the most examining of sonic situations. As a quick change of sound tool though, I suppose they still have a specialist use.
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  #17  
Old 04-16-2011, 06:52 PM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

+1 on what everyone else has said.

The other big reason people removed them was because they never did work well, and they never sounded good. I have them on my 70s Ludwigs, though, just to keep the kit complete. If I back them off all the way, until they are tight, they don't rattle.
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Old 09-15-2016, 04:58 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

I've always had them on all my drums and never really utilized them. I recall played-around with them for a time on the very first kit I had, then quickly moved on and retired them.
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Old 09-15-2016, 05:47 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

The Pearl Ian Paice signature snare comes stock with an internal muffler.
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Old 09-15-2016, 11:21 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

Since my first sets had internal dampeners, I fully agree with those who underlined how much better external dampening is! That said, it is quite interesting to notice, for example, that a great and "modern" drummer like Christian Meyer asked Yamaha to put an internal dampener in his recent signature snare: http://it.yamaha.com/it/products/mus...gnature_model/.
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Old 09-15-2016, 11:28 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

Funnily i just finished playing my '69 Rogers , i think the option is a good one. it's there if you want it, gone if you don't. Personally i think most people removed them as drummers started to hit harder ( 70's ) and they just beat them in to a rattling submission. Thank goodness for the JazzCats who kept playing the drums the way they were designed and left them as is.. That's where mine came from..
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Old 09-15-2016, 02:59 PM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

Interesting thread.

My kit is circa 1980, so they have the dampeners in them. I don't use them very often, tho occasionally I might be in a room where I can't get a handle on the sound on a particular drum as the room environment changed, so I might use it for the rest of the set till I can mess with fixing it.

The a-ha moment for me here is that I never think of those foolish things as potential sources of ringing or other noise. Doh! I have a heck of a time with one of my toms and my snare not getting along, maybe this might be a part of the issue. Might not be, either, but I have something else to investigate going forward.

This forum frickin' rocks. Old dog, new tricks.
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Old 09-15-2016, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

My old snares have them and I use them. Get a rubber O-ring from Lowes and put around the rivet holding the pad and they won't rattle any more. I wish my newer snares had them, but they don't, and I'm not going to drill them.

I HIGHLY recommend the M1 damper from Snareweight. Go to their website and check them out. I use them on all my snares without internal dampers and also they help to define the sound (just enough) on my floor toms. I don't use them on the ride tom. Ingenious design. I will say that the other dampers they sell seem like overkill to me and are of no interest to me, but the M1 is perfect.
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Old 09-15-2016, 06:36 PM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoM3R View Post
Do you have any online stores selling the ludwig internal dampning or any other brands.
Gretsch still has the option to order drums with internal "mufflers".
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  #25  
Old 09-15-2016, 07:53 PM
Gooosseeeyy Gooosseeeyy is offline
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

You cant see them because they're inside the drums!!!!!!
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Old 09-18-2016, 01:27 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

I put the Canopus leather washers on my Ludwig bronze snare and at the same time I put the internal dampener back on. Played a gig and was bummed to find out that I didn't have any lovely overtones. I thought it was the leather washers because I forgot I put the internal muffler back on.

I came to the foolish realisation that I put the muffler on and adjusted it (bent it) so it would lay flat, but I didn't realise that it was always touching the head and I couldn't back it off.

Now that it's properly bent, it works nicely. It, of course doesn't work as well as a top mounted muff, but it works well after a little bit of bending and fluffing.
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Old 09-18-2016, 02:34 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

I recently drilled my modern supra and installed a ludwig internal muffler. I've put a rubber band around the inside screw so it never rattles or comes loose.

I love having the option of removing a some of the ringing without having to carry gel, rings or tape. And it doesn't lower the pitch like the other options do.
I often play in quiet or mic'ed settings where we need a short, controlled sound. Within seconds I can change to a loud, ringing sound.

So I'm fan for snare drums. Not sure about toms though.
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Old 09-18-2016, 04:21 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

Ludwig still offers them as an option, at least on Classic Maple and Legacy kits. If you browse through the Ludwig Configurator they are on there. I never got them on my Legacy kit, but when I ordered my 5x15 Legacy snare drum I got it with an internal dampener, mainly just so it would look like a 70's drum (also got B/O badges, bow tie lugs, and P85 with the small butt plate), but I do use it on occasion and it works just fine. A little more subtle than a piece of moongel.
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Old 09-18-2016, 09:34 AM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

I have some muffles on my 3 older COB snares; I think they really stifle the sound and I never use them. Technology in drum making, heads and tuning has rendered them obsolete.
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Old 09-18-2016, 04:35 PM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman View Post
I have some muffles on my 3 older COB snares; I think they really stifle the sound and I never use them. Technology in drum making, heads and tuning has rendered them obsolete.

There are times when you need to stifle the sound!
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Old 09-18-2016, 10:52 PM
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Default Re: Internal drum dampner where did they go?

This thread got me to thinking.....

A friend of mine who is the drummer for the "TCB Experience" show band (yes, an Elvis Tribute band that is damn good!) has the internal dampeners on his double-kick DW's. He never removes them. He also recently bought, and I'm not lying, Ronnie Tutt's COV (Chrome Over Vista-Lite) 1974-1977 drum kit that can be seen in Elvis's last television special, "Elvis In Concert"!!! I didn't ask details - I was too surprised!! There is a little bit of hardware missing but - not as much as I would have thought after nearly forty years. My friend plans to restore them and use them onstage with the band he plays in. The last four pictures are what the kit looks like now.

He also still has the DWs which he has now re-covered in blue to match the blue sparkle Ludwig's that Tutt used from 1970-1974. Me? I'm still a work in progress as far as my wanna-be Tutt kit is concerned.

Come Hell or high water, I will have a set like that, though!!!

BTW, does anybody know where Tutt got the blue kick drum dampeners for his famous blue sparkle Ludwig kit?? They look like blue foam pieces.....but I'm not sure what they're made of.

The first five pics are of my friend's DWs in blue. The rest are of Ronnie Tutt's chrome over Vista-Lite kit that he used from 1974-1977.

BTW, I just now noticed on Ron's kit that there are red foam dampeners inside the kick drum. That's interesting.....
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