Thoughts on the 13" tom

IDDrummer · #1 03-06-2011, 11:20 PM

I've often heard that 13" toms are difficult to tune. I just have to say that the 13X9 tom on my Ludwig Classic Maple kit is a breeze to tune. It's difficult to make this drum sound bad!

I guess people that had trouble with 13's just had individual drums with issues - maybe bad bearing edges, drums or hoops out of round, etc.

Anyway, my 13" is a counterexample to the idea that they are hard to tune!

audiotech · #2 03-06-2011, 11:26 PM

I also have never had an issue tuning a 13" rack tom. Most of the problems I hear is when the individual is trying to tune their 13" in respect to a 12" or 14" tom. They have trouble getting the separation they desire. My vintage kit has both the 12" x 8" and a 13" x 9" as well as a 16" x 16" floor tom and I never had problems tuning them. I always let the shells designate were they should be tuned.

Dennis

bobdadruma · #3 03-06-2011, 11:36 PM

9x13 on a 4 piece kit with a 16x16 inch floor tom, No Problem!
9x13 sandwiched between an 8x12 and a 10x14 is a Problem for me and most others.
I almost never play my 13 with my 12 and 14 inch toms anymore.

IDDrummer · #4 03-07-2011, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobdadruma

9x13 on a 4 piece kit with a 16x16 inch floor tom, No Problem!
9x13 sandwiched between an 8x12 and a 10x14 is a Problem for me and most others.
I almost never play my 13 with my 12 and 14 inch toms anymore.

I can see that. I'd want more than an inch separation between toms. I also see Dennis' point, if a person were trying get an even interval between those drums.

Interesting. So, you guys think it's mostly an issue of trying to make a drum do what it's not suited for?

bobdadruma · #5 03-07-2011, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDDrummer

I can see that. I'd want more than an inch separation between toms. I also see Dennis' point, if a person were trying get an even interval between those drums.

Interesting. So, you guys think it's mostly an issue of trying to make a drum do what it's not suited for?

I have never been able to put my finger on it.
I stopped using my 9x13 inch tom with my 8x12 and my 10x14 years ago and I have never looked back.
I love my 9x13 tom alone as a single mounted tom.
My 11x15 inch tom doesn't even have lugs on it anymore. It is just a shell that sits in a closet in my drum room.

DrumEatDrum · #6 03-07-2011, 01:29 AM

Neither of my drum kits have a 13".

I don't recall the last time I played a 13" outside of times I might have had to use a house kit.

drumdevil9 · #7 03-07-2011, 02:45 AM

I've owned a few 13" toms and it's never been a question of tuning the tom itself but, as has been said, its tuning in relation to the other toms. I always hated 12 and 13 inch toms together. However, a setup like 10-13-16 would be a breeze to tune.

I actually have a 12-13-16 setup now (Cat Birch) but I don't intend to set the two rack toms up together. I will most likely end up using one or the other or perhaps put the 13 as a left side tom.

BGH · #8 03-07-2011, 03:10 AM

I agree that 13's sound great alone. I use them as left side floor toms, next to my hi hat stand. They sound great that way. I have a couple of 13x11 and just got a 13x13. I don't use them otherwise, and prefer deeper 13's than 13x9 since I use them as floors.

MikeM · #9 03-07-2011, 06:28 PM

I have a 12x8 and a 13x9. I don't use them together, typically. It seems like I have to tune the 13 as low as it will go, then crank up the 12 to get the separation. It's not so bad until I turn around and try to use the 12 by itself - then it's way too high and the heads get stretched out making it hard to detune again before long.

So I use only one rack 99% of the time and it's usually the 13 because it's so much richer and beefier.

pearlygates · #10 03-07-2011, 06:40 PM

Haven't really used a 13" tom in my set up for prolly 20 years. Primarily 1up, 1 down 12, 16.
I have been getting into funk and fusion lately and added a 10" tom and eventually a 14" floor..
to make it 10, 12, 14ft, 16ft.

Drumolator · #11 03-07-2011, 06:44 PM

I play a Mapex Saturn 13" tom at church with a four-piece kit. The other tom is a 16". There are no problems tuning with either tom. I once had a 10/13/16 setup; in fact, I do not remember why I got rid of it.

For a long time the 12/13/16 set was standard; maybe that is why I went to a four-piece kit in the first place. I do not own a 13" tom now, but I like 'em OK. Drum on!

KarlCrafton · #12 03-07-2011, 06:57 PM

I had a stretch of a few years where I didn't use my 13" tom.

I used a 12 (8x12) and had a 12-15-16-18 (15" left side ft.).

I recently went back to a 13, and I really like it again.
I still dig the 12, but maybe I just needed a change.

I never had a problem tuning the 13, but the deeper ones (11, and 10x13) never quite got the sound I wanted. When I got a 9x13 (again) is when I said that's the sound.

I don't use them together, but next to each other, my 8x12 and 9x13's sound just fine to me.
I use Ludwig Classic Maple. Just a plain, straight, medium thickness Maple shell, with a 45 degree edge. They always tune up easily, and stay in tune.
Next to one other the 12,13,14 all descend nicely, and sound like they "go together".

braincramp · #13 03-07-2011, 07:09 PM

Only problem I have had is if I tune them low (above muddy) its hard to get enough seperation with it and my 12" so I usually end up tuning my 8,10,12 to medium and my 13 and 16 to just above muddy..this doesnt work in every room though.. I just got done tweaking my resonant heads on my toms, I took my 12" up and my 13" down some and this actually helped for keeping them all lower tuned where I think my 3007's sound there best

alparrott · #14 03-07-2011, 07:36 PM

I believe there is nothing wrong with the 13" diameter in and of itself, but I like the sound of a 12" tom, and I dislike toms that are too close to each others' diameters right next to each other, they are very difficult to tune in such a way that they sound discrete from each other but still are tuned to the best note they can individually hold. Since I run a two-up, two-down configuration, there's no room for a 13" unless I ran a 10-13-15-18.

I believe that most negative feedback on 13" toms revolves around the difficulty in tuning it next to a 12" and/or 14", not that it's innately difficult to tune on its own.

zambizzi · #15 03-07-2011, 07:39 PM

OH yeah...the 13x9" Classic Maple is a fantastic drum. I had a 13x10" and I agree w/ Karl, it wasn't the same. That extra inch made it harder to tune and it just didn't sound as sweet - weird eh?

I love a 13" up top, especially w/ a 16" on the floor. You can get a better range out of a 13" too, IMO. You can crank it up high and it's every bit as sweet as a 12"...but you can also tune it much lower....almost into floor tom range.

RogerLudwig · #16 03-09-2011, 07:53 AM

I've never had a problem tuning my Rogers 9x13 and the same with my current Ludwig CMs. I prefer one tom tom, so I have a 12, 14, 20 and a 13, 16, 22. All of the drums have the same finish so if I go one up, two down I use the 12, 14, 16. I like the separation. I can crank all of the heads fairly tight so that all of the heads feel the same when being played and it sounds good

MikeM · #17 03-09-2011, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alparrott

there's no room for a 13" unless I ran a 10-13-15-18.

Nothing wrong with that configuration. My default is 13-15-18 (1 up 2 dn)

thenumber24 · #18 03-09-2011, 08:36 AM

i just tuned my 13" today, sounds great with an evans ec2 clear on it. like said before, it's hard to make it sound bad. I find my 12" harder to tune than 13". my toms dont have the best bearing edges either, but they still aren't bad to tune at all. just gotta know how to hit the sweet spot with that res head.

baz · #19 03-09-2011, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerLudwig

I've never had a problem tuning my Rogers 9x13 and the same with my current Ludwig CMs. I prefer one tom tom, so I have a 12, 14, 20 and a 13, 16, 22. All of the drums have the same finish so if I go one up, two down I use the 12, 14, 16. I like the separation. I can crank all of the heads fairly tight so that all of the heads feel the same when being played and it sounds good

...Substitute DW for Rogers and Ludwig, and this could be my story.

The only problem I ever had with my 13 was when using it with a 14" floor tom in a one up two down five piece combo. I blamed the 14 though as I love the 13. No matter how often I change up my setup, I always revert back to a four piece, and the 13 is my rack tom of choice.

Barry

alparrott · #20 03-09-2011, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeM

Nothing wrong with that configuration. My default is 13-15-18 (1 up 2 dn)

Nothing except buying three drums I don't own, that is.

#21 03-09-2011, 04:12 PM

Well for me the 15 x 13 rack tom in the first floor tom position is probably one of my favorite drums. The 14" has always seemed too small there. The natural progression for me higher up the kit then is the 13" x 10". I have always found the 13" one of the hardest toms to tune. Even on my 1980's Rogers it was a pain. It takes a bit more time, but I eventually get it. Now on my Roland kit it is a breeze to tune. :)

GetAgrippa · #22 03-09-2011, 04:33 PM

I haven't had a 13 in the last 5-6 years but I liked it better than the 14 in I presently have. As I recollect, Tony Williams played two 13 in mounted toms just different depths- 9 and 10 or 11. He obviously had no problem tuning or making them babies sing! Right now I'm pairing down from 10,12,14, 16 to just two toms. Getting back to basic.

Deathmetalconga · #23 03-09-2011, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDDrummer

I've often heard that 13" toms are difficult to tune. I just have to say that the 13X9 tom on my Ludwig Classic Maple kit is a breeze to tune. It's difficult to make this drum sound bad!

I guess people that had trouble with 13's just had individual drums with issues - maybe bad bearing edges, drums or hoops out of round, etc.

Anyway, my 13" is a counterexample to the idea that they are hard to tune!

Why should an odd-sized drum be more difficult to tune? That just sounds like a young husband's tale. Sizes are arbitrary and tuning depends on non-arbitrary things like head, shell, lug and hoop properties. I would like to see drums in all sizes and one-inch increments.

random · #24 03-09-2011, 11:58 PM

I like my 13" tom allot. I use it as a floor tom and it far outshines the 16" it replaced.

IDDrummer · #25 03-10-2011, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga

Why should an odd-sized drum be more difficult to tune? That just sounds like a young husband's tale. Sizes are arbitrary and tuning depends on non-arbitrary things like head, shell, lug and hoop properties. I would like to see drums in all sizes and one-inch increments.

I'm not saying that I believed the young husband's tales, only that I have heard them over the years. Heck, I bought the 13, after all.

Interesting how all this "knowledge" gets passed down. I'm just always curious how these ideas get started, because I'm sure the initial idea had to have some cause. It just likely wasn't that a 13" tom is, by nature, hard to tune. That is how someone interpreted the initial data, though.

Deathmetalconga · #26 03-10-2011, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDDrummer

I'm not saying that I believed the young husband's tales, only that I have heard them over the years. Heck, I bought the 13, after all.

Interesting how all this "knowledge" gets passed down. I'm just always curious how these ideas get started, because I'm sure the initial idea had to have some cause. It just likely wasn't that a 13" tom is, by nature, hard to tune. That is how someone interpreted the initial data, though.

Yeah, I never thought you actually believed that - but I guess there are some people who do. Maybe because 13 is an unlucky number?

GRUNTERSDAD · #27 03-10-2011, 01:13 AM

I will tune your 13 inch toms for 20 dollars plus air fare

IDDrummer · #28 03-10-2011, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD

I will tune your 13 inch toms for 20 dollars plus air fare

See, this where a LIKE button would be perfect! But that's a whole 'nuther thread...

alparrott · #29 03-10-2011, 02:46 AM

13"s have got the bad rap because they sit next to 12"s, not because they are hard to tune in and of themselves. People don't start tuning in the middle and work their way out. They go left-to-right or right-to-left. The 13" gets stuck with whatever's left between a sweet-sounding 12" and a sweet-sounding 16".

IDDrummer · #30 03-10-2011, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alparrott

13"s have got the bad rap because they sit next to 12"s, not because they are hard to tune in and of themselves. People don't start tuning in the middle and work their way out. They go left-to-right or right-to-left. The 13" gets stuck with whatever's left between a sweet-sounding 12" and a sweet-sounding 16".

I think that is the most reasonable explanation for the origin of the rumor.

kyle · #31 03-10-2011, 05:02 AM

I find smaller drums more annoying to tune because no matter how I tune them, they sound like crap compared to my floor toms. My sing like angels but my rack toms compared to them don't sound as good.

pepino · #32 03-10-2011, 05:04 AM

I'm between a 12x8 and 13x9 (Ludwig CM), the rest of the drums: 24x18, 16x14, 18x16. I want a powerful punchy rock sound, also I'm a hard hitter.

What do you think?

IDDrummer · #33 03-10-2011, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pepino

I'm between a 12x8 and 13x9 (Ludwig CM), the rest of the drums: 24x18, 16x14, 18x16. I want a powerful punchy rock sound, also I'm a hard hitter.

What do you think?

13X9! Perfect size, IMO, with the other sizes you mentioned.

Dirty Hervy · #34 10-11-2012, 11:05 PM

I find the 12x8 tom easier to tune than the 13x9, even when used alone.

In a four piece set most people would choose one of the two classic configurations 12T 14FT 20BD or 13T 16FT 22BD, but I personally enjoy using the 12x8 and 14x14 with a 22x14 bass drum. I love the jazzy sound toms mixed with the rock bass drum.

I own Ludwig Classic Maples.

Les Ismore · #35 10-11-2012, 11:22 PM

Why should an odd-sized drum be more difficult to tune? That just sounds like a young husband's tale. Sizes are arbitrary and tuning depends on non-arbitrary things like head, shell, lug and hoop properties. I would like to see drums in all sizes and one-inch increments.

People run into problems trying to get 'anything but' second's, or third's when tuning a 13 with a 12 and 14 etc. You can't expect to get a 4th, the timbre will be off.

I prefer 12-13 toms to 10-12, and even 4ths with 10-12-14 it can get dicey with the timbre depending on the drums (quality).

Its not the 13's fault, it only plays well between others in short tuning intervals.

Yes, an 11" tom would be cool (again), as would a 9 and 17... might as well do a 7 too, and a 19 kick.

Lovetadraw · #36 10-12-2012, 03:44 AM

I've had to tune my heads many times and the 13" is always a pain.

bobdadruma · #37 10-12-2012, 03:49 AM

I only like to play a 13 inch tom when I play a kit with a single rack tom.
I never use the 13 inch size when I have more than one high tom.
I use a 10 and 12 when I play a two-up kit.
The 13 inch tom in a one-up set is great.
The cheese has to stand alone I guess :)

The reason is thus, The 13 inch tom when it is next to a 12 inch tom makes me crazy!!!

evilg99 · #38 10-12-2012, 04:03 AM

13" rack toms....meh. For the same reasons as everyone else.
Now, 13" floor toms...OMG.
If you ever see a 13" x 13" or 13" x 10/11/12 floor Tom, check it out.
The best sizes I have ever used , a backline kit :
Yamaha MCAN with 20" kick, 10/12/13ft/15ft, both with legs, not hanging drums.

Neal

audiotech · #39 10-12-2012, 04:30 AM

I feel exactly the same about the 13" tom today as when I posted on this same thread in March of 2011. This is why I included the 13" x 9" tom on my most recent set of drums, it works great in a variety of different configurations. It's all in the tuning.

Dennis

Midnite Zephyr · #40 10-12-2012, 04:35 AM

I think people like and buy what they are told to. Up until early 90's the standard set was 12-13-16 or 18. People wanted bigger drums back then.

I like the 13" drum and have often wondered why the classic sizes have disappeared. I figure it's all about value marketing. The adverts push the smaller sizes to use less material. Then they sell you the drum set for the same price with smaller drums.