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  #1  
Old 02-10-2011, 12:09 AM
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Default What's This about Paiste?

Now what's all this I've been hearing about around here recently about Paiste's cymbals?

The idea is that Paiste cymbals are brittle or vulnerable to cracking, more so than other brands.

Now either I've missed this notion for the past year...

Paiste has recently made some duds...

Or it's a 'rumor' started by some thread in which a collection of people who have received duds posted. And when I say rumor I mean an idea indirectly pushed through opinions that are not negatively reviewing the product in any way.

Just wondering.

inb4 HURR PAISTE DORK
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:29 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldhardsteel View Post
Or it's a 'rumor' started by some thread in which a collection of people who have received duds posted. And when I say rumor I mean an idea indirectly pushed through opinions that are not negatively reviewing the product in any way.

What you said. Also it's likely that the majority of the people that post stuff like that is drummers that pound the hell out their equipment/cymbals. When you play them like that more times than not they will break. JMO.
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:30 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

You think Paiste cop a hard time.........try being a Remo drum head around this place. :-)
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Old 02-10-2011, 01:01 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

OK. We'll get your mind off of that. Mike Portnoy has decided to stay with Dream Theater. But Bernard Purdie has already said he recorded all those DT tracks anyway. That should sufficiently keep everyone busy ;)
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Old 02-10-2011, 02:23 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

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Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
You think Paiste cop a hard time.........try being a Remo drum head around this place. :-)
That too.

I seem to like bad gear or something.
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Old 02-10-2011, 02:46 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

I have a Signature 10" splash I've owned and very constantly gigged with since the early 90's.

I've played far less stiff dogs that were paiste than Zildjian, but to be fair it seems that Zildjians have always outnumbered Paistes in music shops in Houston.

I also think drummers with untrained ears can unknowingly buy bad cymbals,and think they sound bad 'cause they aint' hitting them hard enough- thus the " I don't know why I'm breaking so many cymbals" syndrome.
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Old 02-10-2011, 04:06 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

So Paiste is the main subject so far, check this:

http://www.paiste.com/products/catal...Guide_2010.pdf
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Old 02-10-2011, 05:29 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

I have 2 30 year old 2002 china's. A 32 year old set of Sound Edge hats & a 34 year old 20" crash. No cracks at all. 'nuff said.
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  #9  
Old 02-10-2011, 06:22 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

Oh, this rumor has been around since at least the 80s, so I'd assume it goes back further.

I first heard it in 1987.

A week later I heard a rumor that Zildjians break easier than other brands.

Then there was the rumor that Sabian breaks easier than the other brands.

Then there was the rumor Paistes never ever break, only Zildjians and Sabians do.

Then there was the rumor Sabians never ever break, but Paistes and Zildjians do.

And then....well....yeah....you get the idea, there is always a rumor going around that one product is better/lesser than others.
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Old 02-10-2011, 06:27 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
OK. We'll get your mind off of that. Mike Portnoy has decided to stay with Dream Theater. But Bernard Purdie has already said he recorded all those DT tracks anyway. That should sufficiently keep everyone busy ;)
Bo, you crack me up!!!!
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:13 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

I can only go by my own experience - never had a problem with a Remo head, love EMADs but don't really prefer Evans tom heads, broke every 2002 cymbal I ever owned, broke a couple Zildjians, never broke a Sabian, broke one Istanbul Agop which was replaced under warranty....

What does it all mean?

In the end, don't worry about it. Buy what you like the sound of. Everyone has opinions based on either their own experience or what they've heard. But really, none of it matters much. Play what you like. If it breaks, save up and buy a new one.
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:44 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
Bo, you crack me up!!!!
I'm instigating. And this time, what Mr. Purdie says is true. The funk that oozes from those Dream Theater tracks could only have been played by Bernard "Pretty" Purdie ;) In fact, he says they initially had horns in the band but the decision was made by Beatles engineer Geoff Emerick to "keep it simple". The thread between the Beatles and DT is apparently very deep. At least according to Marvin Gaye.
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Old 02-10-2011, 11:42 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

And now for something completely different but relevant....this debate is not limited to cymbals Think cars..Ford vs. Chevy..when I was 16 I would not buy a Ford due to it standing for Found On Road Dead...These rumors had an effect on me..but back to the topic I've probably owned up to 75 cymbals in my 48 years and only one ever cracked..the fact that it was a Paiste is probably because it was a thin 3000 crash that I loved to bash ..plus 50% of all I've owned were paistes..I think my attempt to defend Paiste here may have failed...so Purdie was in the Beatles too?
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:03 PM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldhardsteel View Post
Now what's all this I've been hearing about around here recently about Paiste's cymbals?

The idea is that Paiste cymbals are brittle or vulnerable to cracking, more so than other brands.

Now either I've missed this notion for the past year...

Paiste has recently made some duds...

Or it's a 'rumor' started by some thread in which a collection of people who have received duds posted. And when I say rumor I mean an idea indirectly pushed through opinions that are not negatively reviewing the product in any way.

Just wondering.

inb4 HURR PAISTE DORK
It is not a rumour. As a drum tech who worked for one of the largest drum shop chains in the southern hemisphere I can state beyond any doubt that Paiste cymbals crack more than Sabian and Zildjian. 80 percent of repairs I have made on cymbals were Paiste. Hell I even repaired Polyanna's only Paiste cymbal.

They sound great. But they break. No question and I will accept no argument. My experience is extensive.
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Old 02-10-2011, 03:21 PM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

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Originally Posted by wy yung View Post
It is not a rumour. As a drum tech who worked for one of the largest drum shop chains in the southern hemisphere I can state beyond any doubt that Paiste cymbals crack more than Sabian and Zildjian. 80 percent of repairs I have made on cymbals were Paiste. Hell I even repaired Polyanna's only Paiste cymbal.

They sound great. But they break. No question and I will accept no argument. My experience is extensive.
Now that's evidence that I'd be willing to accept!
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Old 02-10-2011, 03:49 PM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldhardsteel View Post
Now what's all this I've been hearing about around here recently about Paiste's cymbals?

The idea is that Paiste cymbals are brittle or vulnerable to cracking, more so than other brands.

Now either I've missed this notion for the past year...

Paiste has recently made some duds...

Or it's a 'rumor' started by some thread in which a collection of people who have received duds posted. And when I say rumor I mean an idea indirectly pushed through opinions that are not negatively reviewing the product in any way.

Just wondering.

inb4 HURR PAISTE DORK
Rumors and hearsay. All the cracked cymbals I had in my life were Avedis Zildjians - that's my personal experience. Of course that is because I gigged with Zs and was harder on them during those days than any current cymbals I own. Paiste does overall make brighter cymbals that appeal to rock and metal genres, so they may have a greater instance to crack only because they are hammered more than any other brand. But this subject has been on this board for years, and never with any proof that any brand is structurally stronger or weaker than the other. I wouldn't pay attention to it, cymbal fanatics who wrap themselves in the logos of certain brands only are a jealous and accusatory lot. Go with what sounds good to you and ignore these blanket allegations against a single manufacturer. And use 5A's and don't bang your cymbals too hard, lol.

Last edited by Strangelove; 02-10-2011 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 02-10-2011, 03:55 PM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
Oh, this rumor has been around since at least the 80s, so I'd assume it goes back further.

I first heard it in 1987.

A week later I heard a rumor that Zildjians break easier than other brands.

Then there was the rumor that Sabian breaks easier than the other brands.

Then there was the rumor Paistes never ever break, only Zildjians and Sabians do.

Then there was the rumor Sabians never ever break, but Paistes and Zildjians do.

And then....well....yeah....you get the idea, there is always a rumor going around that one product is better/lesser than others.
And all started by their competition no doubt! Are we just sheep for buying into all this mess?
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Old 02-10-2011, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

I'm amazed that people find it so hard to believe that cymbals made with different materials and manufacturing techniques might have different strength characteristics. Duh.

Paiste's own literature describes first working with sheet bronze and B8 alloy, and eventually being able to produce a cymbal that was almost the equal of a cast bronze cymbal, but cheaper and easier to make.

I STILL say buy and play what you like. :-) I don't understand this need for people to justify their tastes.
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Old 02-10-2011, 05:58 PM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

I have to 1000000% agree with Wy on this. I too have worked years in the music industry, and owned many (at least 30 or so) Paiste Cymbals of all types and series (professional lines).
In my first personal experience with Paiste, I bought a large setup of 2002, Sigs, Giant Beats, Innovations, Dimensions. Never in my life have I ever come close to breaking or denting any cymbal until the Paiste cymbals arrived.
The 2002's sounded great and every one that I played on for even 15 minutes were micro dented showinging every strike mark at the edge, and this is at low volume, with 7A's, glancing blows, etc..I am a seasoned player with over 18yrs drumming experience. The Sigs seemed to hold up just fine, but every one of the B8 alloy pies dented quickly and VERY easily. These were not thin crashes either, they were all 2002 Classic crashes of many sizes, marketed as "rock crash" cymbals, I have to disagree. I think these crashes would have dented even while playing them with jazz rods. I am far from a basher or hard hitter and I was so offput by this it made me sick that I had spent thousands of dollars on them, and I sold them all off immediately.

Stupidly about a year later I bought another full set of Paiste cymbals, same thing happened....the Sigs seemed to hold up well, the 2002's dented immediately. I baby my cymbals and i am constantly looking for any signs of imperfection, so I was once again very upset, my fault i guess for not learning the lesson the first time.

Never had anything like this happen with any other cymbal from any manufacturer.

When I worked in music shops, I constantly saw broken Paiste Cymbals at least 5 to 1 compard to any other company. I and kept an eye out for 2002 cymbals with dented edges....almost every used 2002 I came across had dented edges to some extent, and the funny thing was that the owners didnt seem to notice or care because it was not a crack, yet. They were so die-hard Paiste that it seemed OK to them because Danny Carey, Bonham or Jordison etc plays Paiste. I will never buy another Paiste nor would I suggest them to anyone. How can sabian make B8's that can be beaten to death and hold up 10 times better than a 2002?

This is just my personal and professional experience/opinion of Paiste.
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

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Originally Posted by IDDrummer View Post
Paiste's own literature describes first working with sheet bronze and B8 alloy, and eventually being able to produce a cymbal that was almost the equal of a cast bronze cymbal, but cheaper and easier to make.
Almost the equal of a cast bronze cymbal? They don't say that! Do you work for Sabian or Zildjian, ;-) ? Professional B8 cymbals are casted bronze, whether they be Paiste or Sabian (APXs) .Paiste talks about casting all their professional cymbals, whether individual casted, or in sheets. But there is nothing in their literature or any literature regarding B20 suggesting that one alloy is stronger, better, lessor or more brittle than another. In fact, B8 has more copper in it, while B20 has more tin, which would suggest that B20 is more brittle, as tin is more brittle than copper. Either way, anybody suggesting that one is more apt to cracking or one is better than the other is just chasing their tail. There are too many variables involved, and if there was any credence to this claim, it would have been well documented by now, both in drummer magazines and on the internet. It just seems like these versus subjects never stop around here. Is everything a horse race? Can anybody say there is one single cymbal or cymbal manufacturer better in any sense than the others?
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:32 PM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

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Originally Posted by dwdrummerky View Post
I have to 1000000% agree with Wy on this. I too have worked years in the music industry, and owned many (at least 30 or so) Paiste Cymbals of all types and series (professional lines).
In my first personal experience with Paiste, I bought a large setup of 2002, Sigs, Giant Beats, Innovations, Dimensions. Never in my life have I ever come close to breaking or denting any cymbal until the Paiste cymbals arrived.
The 2002's sounded great and every one that I played on for even 15 minutes were micro dented showinging every strike mark at the edge, and this is at low volume, with 7A's, glancing blows, etc..I am a seasoned player with over 18yrs drumming experience. The Sigs seemed to hold up just fine, but every one of the B8 alloy pies dented quickly and VERY easily. These were not thin crashes either, they were all 2002 Classic crashes of many sizes, marketed as "rock crash" cymbals, I have to disagree. I think these crashes would have dented even while playing them with jazz rods. I am far from a basher or hard hitter and I was so offput by this it made me sick that I had spent thousands of dollars on them, and I sold them all off immediately.

Stupidly about a year later I bought another full set of Paiste cymbals, same thing happened....the Sigs seemed to hold up well, the 2002's dented immediately. I baby my cymbals and i am constantly looking for any signs of imperfection, so I was once again very upset, my fault i guess for not learning the lesson the first time.

Never had anything like this happen with any other cymbal from any manufacturer.

When I worked in music shops, I constantly saw broken Paiste Cymbals at least 5 to 1 compard to any other company. I and kept an eye out for 2002 cymbals with dented edges....almost every used 2002 I came across had dented edges to some extent, and the funny thing was that the owners didnt seem to notice or care because it was not a crack, yet. They were so die-hard Paiste that it seemed OK to them because Danny Carey, Bonham or Jordison etc plays Paiste. I will never buy another Paiste nor would I suggest them to anyone. How can sabian make B8's that can be beaten to death and hold up 10 times better than a 2002?

This is just my personal and professional experience/opinion of Paiste.
Man, I have been playing the Big 3 for the past 30 years and never seen what you are talking about with Paistes. Let's see some pics. How about it?
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:51 PM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

Yes, we have the line of argument but we need to see some facts, pictures on the cymbals...Thanks!
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:54 PM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

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Originally Posted by dwdrummerky View Post

When I worked in music shops, I constantly saw broken Paiste Cymbals at least 5 to 1 compard to any other company. .
Interesting.

I worked in 4 different shops, and never say Paiste's returned at any different rate than any other brand.
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:05 PM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

Sorry but all the pics I have of my past Paiste cymbals are all when they were brand spanking new. What I was stating in my post is purely my opinion and experiences with Paiste and their B8 bronze offerings. Im not trying to ruffle feathers or troll, and I love the way Paiste cymbals sound.
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:02 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strangelove View Post
Almost the equal of a cast bronze cymbal? They don't say that! Do you work for Sabian or Zildjian, ;-) ? Professional B8 cymbals are casted bronze, whether they be Paiste or Sabian (APXs) .Paiste talks about casting all their professional cymbals, whether individual casted, or in sheets. But there is nothing in their literature or any literature regarding B20 suggesting that one alloy is stronger, better, lessor or more brittle than another. In fact, B8 has more copper in it, while B20 has more tin, which would suggest that B20 is more brittle, as tin is more brittle than copper. Either way, anybody suggesting that one is more apt to cracking or one is better than the other is just chasing their tail. There are too many variables involved, and if there was any credence to this claim, it would have been well documented by now, both in drummer magazines and on the internet. It just seems like these versus subjects never stop around here. Is everything a horse race? Can anybody say there is one single cymbal or cymbal manufacturer better in any sense than the others?
Haha, no I don't work for any cymbal company. I think you are right, in that there are so many variables that it is impossible to say one is truly "better" than another, but they are undoubtedly different.

"Cymbal bronzes containing 8% tin are most normally called B8 alloy. Paiste refer to their 8% tin bronze as 2002 alloy.

From the mid 20th century there were attempts to make top quality cymbals from malleable bronze, originally for reasons of economy. As the Paiste patent referred to above says:

Less than three decades ago experiments were carried out for economical considerations with a commercial common bronze sheet or plating containing 8% tin by weight. The result was that the old bronze rule was confirmed and proven to be correct. One had to realize that with careful working and processing of the cymbal it was possible to achieve considerable qualitative results with the bronze sheet or plating containing 8% by weight tin, but these results could never approach the results obtained with traditional cymbals having a tin content of 20% by weight.

Not everyone agrees with this unfavourable assessment, written well after the development of the very successful Paiste 2002 series. In particular, top-line malleable bronze cymbals proved exceptionally suitable for the louder music then developing. The best of them now approach, and some claim equal, the best bell bronze cymbals in quality."

In applying for their patent, Paiste stated that the impetus for developing sheet bronze cymbals was economic, and the benchmark they were aiming for was the quality level of a traditionally cast bronze cymbal. This is what I was referring to. It used to be readily available information, but I notice the current website advertising attempts to blur the lines between cast and sheet cymbals, which seems to say they are reacting to the negative perception of sheet cymbals.

I still want to make clear, I am saying they are different, not inferior.

I've said all along, buy what you like the sound of.
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:29 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

Geez guys.

I've been on edge reading my own thread.

All of Paiste's cymbal series except for Alpha's and lower are cast, not sheet.

However, it seems a lot of the examples used for broken cymbals are 2002's or signatures,and what sparked my question was evidence of broken and dented GB's.

Using this information, one could assume that the processes used in making Paiste's cast B8 cymbals cause them to be softer than B20 or other percentages.

Obviously there are more factors, but just sayin'.

We need a "Science of the Cymbal" sticky.
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:23 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

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Originally Posted by Coldhardsteel View Post
All of Paiste's cymbal series except for Alpha's and lower are cast, not sheet.
Hadn't heard that before.

The fact about cymbals is, they all can crack. My experience has been that Paistes crack faster than any other.

Right around 1971, long before I started hitting hard, I had a pair of 15" hats - top was a Zildjian New Beat, bottom was a Paiste 602 . This mismatched pair was put together for me by Bob Yeager at Pro Drum, who felt that sound was more important than brand matching. I believed him then, just as I came to understand it later in my career.

Anyway, that bottom 602 cymbal cracked, for no apparent reason, soon after I got it. Again, I wasn't a hard hitter, most of my drumming was done in the living room then. And I was very careful with my gear, it's not like the hats were abused or the stand had fallen over. It was just the first of several of my Paistes that would crack, although that one shouldn't have cracked at all. At least I was actually playing the others when they failed!

I have almost 80 Paiste cymbals, and I won't use any of them.

And no, you may not buy/have/acquire them. :)

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Old 02-11-2011, 03:04 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

I owned a 17" sig fast crash in the early 90's 1st gig my guitar player sat on the kit and hit it with the tip of the drumstick (not hard mind you as I was watching) on the edge of the cymbal and took out a half moon about 1" wide. From that moment on i became shell shocked with Paiste and never bought one again. I accepted the possibility that it was a fluke or factory defect but I was out 3 bills. I've owned high end Zildjians exclusively since then and have smashed the **it out of them at times and never broke one.


+1 Zildjian
-1 Paiste
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Old 02-11-2011, 03:17 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

Snitches dont know bout hammex

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Old 02-11-2011, 03:55 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

My 2002's are from the late 70s and I have done everything that you can do to cymbals with them. I have even drilled my 22 inch ride to accept 7 rivets for a sizzler.
I can't kill these pies.
I play them hard, soft and everything in between almost everyday.
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Old 02-11-2011, 03:59 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

I haven't noticed that 2oo2 alloy breaks any faster than Zildjian or Sabian B20 (it seems other have), but as I've said, I've seen with my own eyes that some of the thinner ones have picked up little edge dents. I don't care if anyone else believes me on that or not, it's what I've experienced first hand. I have no axe to grind with Paiste and I still own and play 2oo2s - that's an 18" 2oo2 Medium and a pair of Signature hats in my avatar. One of my two rides is a 2oo2 22" Ride (the other being a 20" K Ride).

The Signatures are a whole other story. I've had a few Full Crashes, a Power Ride (yes, a friggin' POWER ride), and a pair of Medium Hats and all cracked much faster than any other cymbal type I've ever owned. I've completely sworn off of the Signature alloy - that stuff's too expensive for how fragile it is.

I have a list of complaints I could list about Zildjian and Sabian, too, so I really don't get the knee-jerk defensiveness some people get about Paiste. It's like a cult almost lol
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  #32  
Old 02-11-2011, 04:37 AM
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scorch whammin scorch whammin is offline
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

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Originally Posted by Strangelove View Post
Man, I have been playing the Big 3 for the past 30 years and never seen what you are talking about with Paistes. Let's see some pics. How about it?
Agree!!..I too have owned/played on the big 3 for quite some time (20+ years)..and never encountered what dwdrummerky stated in his post...
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  #33  
Old 02-11-2011, 04:50 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

It will be interesting to watch opinions change as Paiste has now expanded their selection of B20 cymbals. Then a fair comparison may be drawn to other brands. Denting does seem a lot easier on the edges, however.
Paiste cymbals have always felt more stiff by nature, and design. Sabian goes through quite the process it seems to get flexible, fast cymbals that ultimately sound soft.
The Paiste fan in me says they break more because people hit them more because they sound so much better at higher volumes, when all that aforementioned tension can be completely released, hence the warm, glassy, & bright tendencies - much in the same way Sabians just are too soft, cold, and dead for my tastes, and I'm always willing to them a fair chance, but even in blind tests, I just can't seem to like them. If you want a soft, buttery sound, get it through masterful hammering of a strong alloy and still retain fullness, character, and dynamics. Thank you Agop. For Paiste, the tension helps keep the full wide range of frequencies at all levels. From there, all you have to choose is thickness for volume ranges, and soon you're playing the best sounding, lively cymbals out there. You say choose the cymbal by sound, not brand, but I'll submit to you, that every brand has a sound.
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  #34  
Old 02-11-2011, 07:18 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post

I have almost 80 Paiste cymbals, and I won't use any of them.

And no, you may not buy/have/acquire them. :)

Bermuda
But...but...but....not fair!!

I really want to get two Paiste crashes for recording.
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  #35  
Old 02-11-2011, 07:43 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

I can add no compelling evidence because I've never had lots of gear ... only recently have I had the $$ but now I don't have the inclination or the space. However, I think Wy's post is pretty compelling and it does concur with the feeble anecdotal evidence of my experience.

There is something about the feel of the Paiste 2002 cymbals I've had - they feel less bendy than other cymbals I've had, and I don't mean thickness. It's as though they are harder and have a bit less give. Just an intuitive feeling. Does anyone else get that?

Not dissing Paistes at all. I prefer darker, trashier sounds for the music I'm now playing but I still think 2002s have a gorgeous sound.
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  #36  
Old 02-11-2011, 07:58 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

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Originally Posted by IDDrummer View Post
Haha, no I don't work for any cymbal company. I think you are right, in that there are so many variables that it is impossible to say one is truly "better" than another, but they are undoubtedly different.

"Cymbal bronzes containing 8% tin are most normally called B8 alloy. Paiste refer to their 8% tin bronze as 2002 alloy.

From the mid 20th century there were attempts to make top quality cymbals from malleable bronze, originally for reasons of economy. As the Paiste patent referred to above says:

Less than three decades ago experiments were carried out for economical considerations with a commercial common bronze sheet or plating containing 8% tin by weight. The result was that the old bronze rule was confirmed and proven to be correct. One had to realize that with careful working and processing of the cymbal it was possible to achieve considerable qualitative results with the bronze sheet or plating containing 8% by weight tin, but these results could never approach the results obtained with traditional cymbals having a tin content of 20% by weight.

Not everyone agrees with this unfavourable assessment, written well after the development of the very successful Paiste 2002 series. In particular, top-line malleable bronze cymbals proved exceptionally suitable for the louder music then developing. The best of them now approach, and some claim equal, the best bell bronze cymbals in quality."

In applying for their patent, Paiste stated that the impetus for developing sheet bronze cymbals was economic, and the benchmark they were aiming for was the quality level of a traditionally cast bronze cymbal. This is what I was referring to. It used to be readily available information, but I notice the current website advertising attempts to blur the lines between cast and sheet cymbals, which seems to say they are reacting to the negative perception of sheet cymbals.

I still want to make clear, I am saying they are different, not inferior.

I've said all along, buy what you like the sound of.
Well, the whole connotation of all that bell bronze vs sheet bronze diatribe was intended to slight B8 bronze, by insenuating that it makes for cheap cymbals. Paiste is not being vague in discerning cast and sheet cymbals at all on their website. They are simply saying that cymbal blanks can be cast in sheets as well as individually. Casting in sheets may certainly be economical compared to individual casting. However, it is still casting, and it also guarantees a certain consistecy among cymbals that individual casting misses. So while Robert Zidjian and the rest of the Z crowd who contrived that spectacular trashing of B8 cymbals certainly pointed out the economics of sheet bronze, they failed to recognize one of the great attributes of sheet casting, and that is consistency of sound, which both Sabian and Zildjian miss the boat on BIG TIME. Either way, their argument goes nowhere, because Paiste's professional grades, much of Meinl's pro grades and Sabian's APX are not cheap cymbals. That whole argument is a bunch of crap just meant to slight Paiste back in the day, and that's all it is/was. Also, Paiste puts more hand work into their cymbals than Zildjian does, so any economics or cheapness caused by sheet casting is offset by the cheapness or economics of fully automated processes at Zildjian. This is really a multi headed monster.

I am not a Paiste fanatic by any means. I play all the Big 3 and will likely venture into Istanbuls very soon. But I have noticed more posts on this board with the clear intention to degrade Paiste than I have seen on any other drum or cymbal forum. It just gets tiring after awhile. People, play what sounds good to you and quit complicating matters with hearsay and attacks made out of petty jealousy!

Last edited by Strangelove; 02-11-2011 at 04:15 PM.
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  #37  
Old 02-11-2011, 08:22 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wy yung View Post
It is not a rumour. As a drum tech who worked for one of the largest drum shop chains in the southern hemisphere I can state beyond any doubt that Paiste cymbals crack more than Sabian and Zildjian. 80 percent of repairs I have made on cymbals were Paiste. Hell I even repaired Polyanna's only Paiste cymbal.

They sound great. But they break. No question and I will accept no argument. My experience is extensive.
It is a rumor. Maybe you were too busy being a master ninja to realize all the other brands of broken cymbals you had.
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  #38  
Old 02-11-2011, 11:02 AM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

I personally have seen more broken PAISTE'S than ZILDJIANS.

I've broken more ZILDJIANS only b/c I only play ZILDJIAN, I've never been happy with the PAISTE sound... too metallic sounding in all the lines.



Originally Posted by dwdrummerky

When I worked in music shops, I constantly saw broken Paiste Cymbals at least 5 to 1 compard to any other company.


This I can believe, add to it the fact ZILDJIAN out sells all other cymbal manufactures combined and that's a real scary ratio, there's literally ton's of ZILDJIANS out there comparatively.
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  #39  
Old 02-11-2011, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

So... what I'm getting from this thread is... Never buy a new OR used cymbal? Don't play poker with anyone named after a city? Don't date a girl with a daggar tattoo?
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  #40  
Old 02-11-2011, 07:17 PM
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Ian Williams Ian Williams is offline
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Default Re: What's This about Paiste?

Congratulations, you are a clever man!
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