DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Gear > Heads and Sticks

Heads and Sticks Discuss Heads and Sticks

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-28-2011, 02:48 PM
daredrummer's Avatar
daredrummer daredrummer is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,375
Default 2 quick questions about remo heads....

Ok my first questions were answered, now I just have one more...

1. Which has more sustain, a PS3 or a pinstripe? PS3's have more muffling but are 1 ply, and pinstripes have less muffling but are 2 ply. So which has more sustain?

I want something with more sustain than my PS4's while keeping about the same tone (maybe a little brighter). Also not as much attack.
I'm considering emperor's and CS's, any maybe PS3's or pinstripes if one has a considerable amount more sustain than the PS4. So do they have quite a bit more? Or are they very close in terms of sustain to the PS4?
Thanks
__________________
"Nowadays you could find a plumber, put him in a studio and make him sound good." ~John Robinson

Last edited by daredrummer; 01-31-2011 at 04:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-28-2011, 04:47 PM
BradGunnerSGT's Avatar
BradGunnerSGT BradGunnerSGT is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 470
Default Re: 2 quick questions about remo heads....

Quote:
Originally Posted by daredrummer View Post
Just had a couple of quick questions.

1. Do pinstripes have as much muffling as PS3's and 4's or do they have more or less? My PS4's are a bit too muffled when recording, so do pinstripes have the same muffling and sustain?

2. Are controlled sound's used on toms? If so, is it the clear, the coated, or the smooth white?

Thanks.
1. Pinstripes are more muffled than PS4. PS4 is like an 2-ply (Emperor) head with a built in muffle ring attached on the underside of the head at the collar so it floats under the head and cuts off the vibration after a few milliseconds. Pinstripes are like Emperors with the 2 plies glued together around the edge. This makes a "dead" edge which is where most of the overtones come from.

2. Yes to all of these questions. ;) The CS heads are single-ply Ambassadors with a reverse dot to add a little bit of muffling right where you hit the head. Kind of like the reverse of the PS3, the muffling is in the center instead of the edge, so you get a bit of dampening but leave in a little of the overtones. This is why they are mostly used on snare drums, since snares need that tiny bit of "ring" in order to sound natural. You can use clear, coated, or smooth on toms.

Basically, it depends on the sound you are after, your drums themselves, the room you are playing in, etc... Take a tom (like a 12") and try a couple of different heads on it until you are happy with the sound, then re-head the rest of your kit and see what happens. If you like the tone and sustain of the PS4 but it is too muffled, try a coated Emperor (i.e. PS4 with no muffling), a Vintage Emperor, or a PS3.

My current gigging kit (the Catalina Jazz) sounds best with Vintage Emperors over coated Ambassadors, my "big kit" (7 piece Renown Maple) sounds best with clear PS3 over clear Ambassadors. For snares, I like either the coated CS, an Evans HD Dry, or a regular Ambassador, depending on the drum. It took me a while to find combinations that I liked.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:42 PM
Les Ismore's Avatar
Les Ismore Les Ismore is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Location, Location!
Posts: 3,721
Default Re: 2 quick questions about remo heads....

1. Pinstripes are more muffled than PS4. PS4 is like an 2-ply (Emperor) head with a built in muffle ring attached on the underside of the head at the collar so it floats under the head and cuts off the vibration after a few milliseconds. Pinstripes are like Emperors with the 2 plies glued together around the edge. This makes a "dead" edge which is where most of the overtones come from.


Not. You are correct saying a PS4 is an EMPEROR with a (PS3 type) ring, but no way is PINSTRIPE more muffled, PS4 is more muted by far.

The PINSTRIPE is not glued per say, the stuff they use is a fugitive type adhesive, the ply's aren't fused together.

PS4 rings can be slit/cut sequentially (I would start there) or completely removed... well, not completely removed, as there's always going to be flap material under the heads hoop, so these won't sound totally like EMPERORS with the flaps removed, but they will sound more resonante without the flaps.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:43 PM
daredrummer's Avatar
daredrummer daredrummer is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,375
Default Re: 2 quick questions about remo heads....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradGunnerSGT View Post
1. Pinstripes are more muffled than PS4. PS4 is like an 2-ply (Emperor) head with a built in muffle ring attached on the underside of the head at the collar so it floats under the head and cuts off the vibration after a few milliseconds. Pinstripes are like Emperors with the 2 plies glued together around the edge. This makes a "dead" edge which is where most of the overtones come from.

2. Yes to all of these questions. ;) The CS heads are single-ply Ambassadors with a reverse dot to add a little bit of muffling right where you hit the head. Kind of like the reverse of the PS3, the muffling is in the center instead of the edge, so you get a bit of dampening but leave in a little of the overtones. This is why they are mostly used on snare drums, since snares need that tiny bit of "ring" in order to sound natural. You can use clear, coated, or smooth on toms.

Basically, it depends on the sound you are after, your drums themselves, the room you are playing in, etc... Take a tom (like a 12") and try a couple of different heads on it until you are happy with the sound, then re-head the rest of your kit and see what happens. If you like the tone and sustain of the PS4 but it is too muffled, try a coated Emperor (i.e. PS4 with no muffling), a Vintage Emperor, or a PS3.

My current gigging kit (the Catalina Jazz) sounds best with Vintage Emperors over coated Ambassadors, my "big kit" (7 piece Renown Maple) sounds best with clear PS3 over clear Ambassadors. For snares, I like either the coated CS, an Evans HD Dry, or a regular Ambassador, depending on the drum. It took me a while to find combinations that I liked.
Thanks for all the help :)

I was just checking out the remo sound chart (where they give each head a 1 out of 5 ranking on sustain, tone and durability) and it's not very accurate at all...

The coated emperor has a 4/5 on brightness....
The black suede emperor is brighter and more sustain than the clear emperor....
PS3's have less sustain than pinstripes....

Just had 1 more follow up question...

I do like the tone of my PS4's (maybe a tiny bit brighter), but I want some more sustain. I guess pinstripes are out, because they have less sustain. Ambassadors are too high pitched. Emperor's would work, but what about the PS3 and CS? These have the same thickness as the ambassador, so are they the same pitch? Once again, the sound charts are throwing me off, giving the amp a 5 on brightness, the CS a 3, and the PS3 a 2. It seems like they would be the same tone (because they're the same thickness), so am I missing something, or are the charts just inaccurate again?

One last thing... Is it worth checking out Vintage A's or Ambassador X? Like I said, I just wanted a tiny bit brighter than my PS4's, and these are both thicker than the regular amps. So do you think they would give me the sound I want?
__________________
"Nowadays you could find a plumber, put him in a studio and make him sound good." ~John Robinson
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:47 PM
Les Ismore's Avatar
Les Ismore Les Ismore is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Location, Location!
Posts: 3,721
Default Re: 2 quick questions about remo heads....

I guess pinstripes are out, because they have less sustain.

You're guessing wrong, PINSTRIPES have more sustain/sound than PS4, I've played both heads multiple times and PS4 is way more muted, almost unusably so IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-29-2011, 12:55 AM
Drumolator Drumolator is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: central Louisiana
Posts: 1,935
Default Re: 2 quick questions about remo heads....

I use Control Sound (black dot) heads on my toms, and they sound very good. I like single ply heads, but I dent them too fast, so the next best thing is Control Sound head. Heck, the great Tony Williams used black dot heads on both sides of his toms. I use clear Ambaasdor heads on the bottoms. Peace and goodwill.
__________________
Mark Wellman

Gretsch Catalina toms and BD / Pacific SX Series (snare) / Sabian / Evans / Vater
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-29-2011, 05:13 AM
daredrummer's Avatar
daredrummer daredrummer is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,375
Default Re: 2 quick questions about remo heads....

Ok guys, just to sum it all up, here's the sound I want:

I want something just a tiny bit brighter than PS4's. I also want something with more sustain the PS4's. Not tons more sustain, and not just a little more, but an average amount more sustain. Also elimination of high pitched overtones (I would warm full sustain, not high overtones). As for attack, about the same as the PS4's (no more, maybe a little less, but the same will work too).

Now the choices I have to choose from are...
PS3's
Pinstripes
Controlled Sound
Emperor
Ambassador

After I choose one of those I just have to choose a finish.

An answer from an experienced remo player would be great.
Thanks.
__________________
"Nowadays you could find a plumber, put him in a studio and make him sound good." ~John Robinson
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-29-2011, 07:10 AM
BradGunnerSGT's Avatar
BradGunnerSGT BradGunnerSGT is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 470
Default Re: 2 quick questions about remo heads....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
Not. You are correct saying a PS4 is an EMPEROR with a (PS3 type) ring, but no way is PINSTRIPE more muffled, PS4 is more muted by far.

The PINSTRIPE is not glued per say, the stuff they use is a fugitive type adhesive, the ply's aren't fused together.

PS4 rings can be slit/cut sequentially (I would start there) or completely removed... well, not completely removed, as there's always going to be flap material under the heads hoop, so these won't sound totally like EMPERORS with the flaps removed, but they will sound more resonante without the flaps.
Well, to my ears the Pinstripes sound more muffled, because most of the time Pinstripes are tuned for that all-attack-no-tone-like-hitting-a-cardboard-box sound that was popular in the 80's and is now coming back. PS4's in my experience are designed for a more low fundamental tone rather than sheer attack and volume, but are still very dead, sustain-wise.

Oh, and it's really nit-picking to point out the type of adhesive Remo uses. Yes, they do use an adhesive that doesn't set (which makes sense for a product that has to maintain elasticity and allow a lot of vibration between two layers of plastic), but most people in the world just call it "glue". ;-)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-29-2011, 09:39 PM
Les Ismore's Avatar
Les Ismore Les Ismore is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Location, Location!
Posts: 3,721
Default Re: 2 quick questions about remo heads....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradGunnerSGT View Post
Well, to my ears the Pinstripes sound more muffled, because most of the time Pinstripes are tuned for that all-attack-no-tone-like-hitting-a-cardboard-box sound that was popular in the 80's and is now coming back. PS4's in my experience are designed for a more low fundamental tone rather than sheer attack and volume, but are still very dead, sustain-wise.

Oh, and it's really nit-picking to point out the type of adhesive Remo uses. Yes, they do use an adhesive that doesn't set (which makes sense for a product that has to maintain elasticity and allow a lot of vibration between two layers of plastic), but most people in the world just call it "glue". ;-)



Clear AMBASSADORS can sound muffled too, it depends on the tuning. Tuned the same, PINSTRIPES are not as muffled as PS4. Do a side-by-side with your floor tom, the PS4 will be more muffled compared to a PINSTRIPE. No way-- 1. Pinstripes are more muffled than PS4.

Sound control dots and impact patches are glued to drumheads, though most people call it an adhesive. Im willing to bet that 'most people' believe PINSTRIPE heads are tightly bonded around the edge... call it nit-picking, I call it informational.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-31-2011, 04:25 AM
daredrummer's Avatar
daredrummer daredrummer is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,375
Default Re: 2 quick questions about remo heads....

I have one more question guys. Edited my first post.
__________________
"Nowadays you could find a plumber, put him in a studio and make him sound good." ~John Robinson
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com