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  #1  
Old 12-01-2010, 08:03 AM
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Default A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

It is with the deepest regrets that I find myself posting this here, it is sad day for Australian music indeed, when non-mainstream arts are being destroyed by another horrific example of narrow-mindedness.

If you care at all, please sign, Ne Obliviscaris need their proverbial brother back in Australia to continue, the petition already has 1300 signatures from 50 countries.

http://www.gopetition.com/petition/40983.html

"In November 2010, after more than a year waiting for a response from the Department of Immigration, Australia, Ne Obliviscaris received word that their lead guitarists application for a 'Distinguished Talent' (subclass 124) visa had been denied, putting the future of the band in doubt.

Under Australian migration law, a visa cannot be granted unless the applicant meets the legal requirements that are specified in the Act and the Regulations. The Department of Immigration decided that in their opinion Benjamin Baret does not meet the legal requirements in clause 124.211 in Schedule 2 of the Regulations. We strongly disagree with this decision.

The relevant section of clause 124.211 states:

"(2) The applicant:
(a) has an internationally recognised record of exceptional and outstanding achievement in one of the following areas:
(i) a profession;
(ii) a sport;
(iii) the arts;
(iv) academia and research; and
(b) is still prominent in this area; and
(c) would be an asset to the Australian community; and
(d) would have no difficulty obtaining employment, or in becoming established independently, in Australia in the area."

The reasons given for the refusal of his visa application included that
• “A metal guitarist with internationally recognized records could be expected to have collaborated with renowned metal bands such as Metallica, Iron Maiden or Disturbed. There is no evidence in the application that it is the case.”
• “There is also no evidence that Benjamin Baret has won any international awards by being a guitarist or a musician in general.”

To proclaim that bands such as Iron Maiden & Metallica, two of the biggest metal bands in history, are the standard by which one defines “exceptional and outstanding achievement” is something we feel to be completely unreasonable. Further more, to use the fact that Benjamin has not won any international awards for a genre of music such as metal in which awards scarcely exist, we also feel is unreasonable. We strongly feel that these reasons for refusal show a clear lack of understanding of the music industry and in particular the worldwide metal scene and Ne Obliviscaris’ current and future place within it.

In addition to this petition, the band will also be providing the Migration Review Tribunal with significant additional support material to prove that Benjamin Baret meets the relevant criteria.

Please show your support for this cause by signing this petition and helping to ensure a future for Benjamin Baret in Australia, and for Ne Obliviscaris in general."

For more information about the band, and where they come from,

http://www.facebook.com/#!/note.php?...9&id=759129103

http://www.myspace.com/neobliviscaris

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8PNAyN5quM

Their debut is currently being mixed, there demo has won universal international acclaim, obtaining a 90% average on metal-archives the foremost metal authority, with 14 reviews.
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Old 12-01-2010, 08:32 AM
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Default Re: A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

Good one, Frost. I've signed.
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  #3  
Old 12-01-2010, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

Love this band, petition signed
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  #4  
Old 12-02-2010, 08:04 AM
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Default Re: A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

Thanks guys... Australia has so few underground artists making waves internationally to lose one of the biggest would be a huge blow.
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:13 AM
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Default Re: A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

Frosty, you would know I'm not into metal and I suspect the decision-makers aren't either. What if it was a classical, jazz or (somewhat respectable musician? No probs, I'd guess. Certainly if it was a sportsman with a level of international experience they'd roll out the red carpet.

I agree with you that they are being narrow-minded. IMO it's sheer prejudice and it's unethical ... that's why I signed. Hope it makes a difference, from what I'm seeing, trying to make a mark on a government or major company is like being a mosquito trying to get an elephant's attention. They will listen to the media, but the most influential - the Murdoch press - would probably like metal / alt / underground musicians about as much as the Dept of Immigration does. I hate the way conservativism is so dominant in the halls of power at the moment.
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:35 AM
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Default Re: A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

I know, if it was an athelete, you are completely right, even outside of the metal spectrum, a concert pianist would succeed.

It isn't an application for citizenship, just the option to stay in the country long term.

The imigration board treat Ne Obliviscaris like a garage band making a joke out of the $5000 fee it costs to apply for this visa. Ne Obliviscaris have global fans.

The violinist has a bachelor of music with honors (performance), from the most prestigious university in Melbourne.

The drummer holds the Australian WFD feet title.

Benjamin already has a large amount of people taking lessons from him, he is a phenomenal guitarist,

Just to supply something to back that up, outside of the usual metal speed picking/shredding,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdkQffi5Kt8



Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
Frosty, you would know I'm not into metal and I suspect the decision-makers aren't either. What if it was a classical, jazz or (somewhat respectable musician? No probs, I'd guess. Certainly if it was a sportsman with a level of international experience they'd roll out the red carpet.

I agree with you that they are being narrow-minded. IMO it's sheer prejudice and it's unethical ... that's why I signed. Hope it makes a difference, from what I'm seeing, trying to make a mark on a government or major company is like being a mosquito trying to get an elephant's attention. They will listen to the media, but the most influential - the Murdoch press - would probably like metal / alt / underground musicians about as much as the Dept of Immigration does. I hate the way conservativism is so dominant in the halls of power at the moment.
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  #7  
Old 12-02-2010, 11:33 AM
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Default Re: A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

After having met so many diplomats and government bureaucrats over the last few years via my dad's worldwide jazz endeavors I can tell you that the bias is not only restricted to metal. Fact is most of these guys know very little of culture including cultural attaches. Jazz and classical musicians aren't exempt from this ignorance either.

Most likely in consideration of your man, the main pencil pusher in the office merely called in the lone office worker with an earring and asked him about metal. Then when the called in guy started throwing initials like MTV and VH1, the decision not to grant was made, seeing as how the pencil pusher had enlisted an expert opinion.

Musicians who do best in these situations are folk performers who can best demonstrate a perpetuation of the existing authentic culture. In other words get a diedjerdio in the applicant's hands as soon as possible.

I'm serious. This really is the way such people think.
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  #8  
Old 12-03-2010, 12:51 AM
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Default Re: A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

Fair point. I guess any profession that doesn't bring in the $$ will be a poor relation, although metal has the rep as music of rebellious youth which isn't going to win it any extra brownie points.

The didgeridoo idea isn't the worst I've heard haha - probably the optimal musician situation for getting in would be a money-making Aussie bush balladeer a la John Williamson.

All in all, musicians are usually seen as a bit suspect by conservatives here. Healthy, decent, upright people are into family, home renovation and decoration, cooking, making money and sports [sic]
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Old 12-03-2010, 01:22 AM
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Default Re: A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

Never heard of these guys before....I like it, I'm a big fan of Opeth so this is right up my street....

Immigration is really knuckling down here, I'm a pom and have lived here four years now...I married an Aussie ; - )
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:27 PM
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Default Re: A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

Quote:
Originally Posted by spides666 View Post
Never heard of these guys before....I like it, I'm a big fan of Opeth so this is right up my street....

Immigration is really knuckling down here, I'm a pom and have lived here four years now...I married an Aussie ; - )
My friend did the same, though it isn't enough to just find him a girl and fake a wedding, not that that would ever be considered in any case, or that I'm claiming that has any relevancy to your case.

The appeal is in process and it's in capable hands but they need help, hence posting here.

I know the band, but I'm not directly related in any way, I made this post purely out of frustration at the governments decision and the latest example of a recurring problem regarding music.
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Old 12-10-2010, 11:38 PM
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Default Re: A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

Wow, that's sick (the bad kind). I'm not into metal, but I would probably fly into a murderous fit of rage if I was the guitarist in question. That's just the most insulting BS I've seen in a while.
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Old 12-12-2010, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

Signed. Most laws like that are completely ridiculous. Let him in!
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  #13  
Old 12-26-2010, 11:32 PM
mxo721 mxo721 is offline
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Default Re: A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

done... I'm not into metal at all, but I really like a few Australian bands from back when. Hoo doo gurus, devinals, and Richard Clapton.
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Old 12-26-2010, 11:56 PM
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Default Re: A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost View Post
The reasons given for the refusal of his visa application included that
• “A metal guitarist with internationally recognized records could be expected to have collaborated with renowned metal bands such as Metallica, Iron Maiden or Disturbed. There is no evidence in the application that it is the case.”
• “There is also no evidence that Benjamin Baret has won any international awards by being a guitarist or a musician in general.”
This was the government's official response??!! Interesting wording, if true. I've had no problem getting work visas for Australia, New Zealand, Canada, UK and Netherlands, and I doubt I qualify as having won international awards or worked with many renowned artists.

Something's not quite right.

But honestly, is an online petition going to sway the government's position on this?

Bermuda
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  #15  
Old 12-27-2010, 12:32 AM
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Default Re: A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

My guess is he's looking for permanent residency.

Bermuda, if Weird Al took leave of his senses and decided he wanted to base himself and his band in a country whose music scene is near terminal then I'd expect few problems. Al is very well-known and Ne Obliviscaris have a much lower profile.

However, if it was a promising, unknown sportsperson ...
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Old 12-27-2010, 01:13 AM
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Default Re: A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

Ah, moving there, that is indeed different. I briefly looked into what it would take to move to OZ, and they don't make it easy if you're not already part of the Commonwealth.

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Old 12-27-2010, 02:18 AM
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Default Re: A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

I think the main criteria is money, which is probably the case everywhere. If you're rich, the world is your oyster. If you don't have much money and play in a non-elite heavy metal band ...
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:49 AM
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Default Re: A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigned!!
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  #19  
Old 12-27-2010, 08:26 AM
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Default Re: A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
This was the government's official response??!! Interesting wording, if true. I've had no problem getting work visas for Australia, New Zealand, Canada, UK and Netherlands, and I doubt I qualify as having won international awards or worked with many renowned artists.

Something's not quite right.

But honestly, is an online petition going to sway the government's position on this?

Bermuda
He was out for a year, they want the ability to keep him long term under the clause of a distinguished talent visa, which they believe he is worthy of. The petition is part of the solution, not the only thing being done, hopefully the appeal is successful but the people in charge are quite narrow minded as their exact wording shows.
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Last edited by Frost; 12-27-2010 at 11:37 AM.
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  #20  
Old 12-27-2010, 01:58 PM
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Default Re: A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

Guess that's when you find out your place in the pecking order.
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: A petition, and the sorry state of Australian music

In a very non metal way:

Signed, sealed , delivered....

Look I love Maiden, who really gets chances to record with them? Metallica? Disturbed is terrible, even if you paid me i wouldn't record with them.

These stipulations are F**G ridiculous.

Metal is far reaching and ever expansive.

To deny the guy a visa? A lot of metla guitarists have a strong affinity towards classical and can and have taught guitar.

RANDY RHOADS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope this turns out better for them.
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:01 PM
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Default A petition and the sorry state of Australian

Originally Posted by Medalion:These style of songs still exist, its called taking whatever song or band is hot at the time to contribute songs to your movie... Hardly unique to 80/90s

Problem is, nowadays 99 of "popular" music and bands is utter crap.
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