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  #1  
Old 12-22-2010, 07:54 AM
piperdoog piperdoog is offline
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Default What the hell is up with these double hits????

Ok guys I have been drumming awhile now and recently got into a new kit and am having some very frustrating issues with the bounce back double hit thing going on on the bass drum. I have read some advice but cannot figure this out. Here are the details, I'm running a PS3 batter (not sure the age) but seems to be in great condition, I have a ported reso, and the tension on the bass drum pedals does not seem to make a difference. I have the batter head fairly tight, and the reso running pretty tight as well not over the top by any means just tighter, so should I really loosen them off?
I hve never had this problem before so I wouldn't say it's technique, but am finding it quite frustrating.
Should I buy a new head?
Anyways any advice would be really appreciated.

Cheers
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:14 PM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

is your front reso skin ported?
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:22 PM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

What kind of beater are you using? I find that I sometimes get double hits with plastic beaters (or beaters made of other hard materials). Felt beaters have much less bounce, so they completely eliminate the problem for me.
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:29 PM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

Do you play heel up or down? Is it a new (to you) pedal as well as the kit?
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:54 PM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

I remember that double thing when trying someone else's kit many years ago. It freaked me out. His pedal was much more tightly sprung than my one at the time and, as Naigewron said, I had a felt beater on mine and they guy's pedal had a hard beater (forgot exactly what it was - it was about 25 years ago). My foot technique was not up to handling such a fast pedal. One option would be to use the pedal on a drum practice pad till you adjust.
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Old 12-22-2010, 04:01 PM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

Do you bury the pedal? If you do this will happen because you said you have the batter head fairly tight. Loosen the batter or learn to not bury the pedal. I have the same issue and have to tune accordingly.
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Old 12-22-2010, 06:04 PM
piperdoog piperdoog is offline
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

Thanks gang I'll give it all a shot!
I have never had this problem before although I'm playing a 24 inch kick now. I will loosen up everything from the batter head to the pedal spring tension and see how it goes.
I guess the reso head can stay a bit tight to get that air flow quicken. I'll felt it up as well.
Hey Naigewron nice single there buddy took a quick listen, good recording your a good recording drummer, I like the fills etc it works with the song, nothing worse than a drummer doing to much and take away from the tune. Solid job man
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Old 12-22-2010, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

Joeysnare asked the right question.

If you have always played with a ported reso and switch to one that is non ported you will get a completely different feel from the pedal. Assuming you bury the beater, as I do, playing with a non ported reso will give you trouble, mostly along the lines of "double hits"
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Old 12-22-2010, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

I say it's your batter head tension. Bass drum heads are more to be tuned just above wrinkle stage lowest possible pitch. And this will vary on the type of music you play as well. I personally don't tighten my bass drum heads down all that much. My reso head I leave loose as well. Your just going to have to try different things. You also might just have to adjust to your new kit.
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Old 12-22-2010, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

I recently switched from ported 22"s to a non-ported 26". I was having the same problems. I keep the batter medium and the reso high. For some reason the problem was worse with my Iron Cobra. When I tried my Eliminator, it improved. I've still had to change my technique.

How big is your port? A larger port might help.
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Old 12-22-2010, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

Well, he said he has a ported front head, right? So he's not dealing with going from a thuddy blanket filled bass drum to a ringy open one. Usually everyone tunes just above the wrinkles on the batter head, eliminating the head from bouncing back at you, so that might help. Or maybe the new pedal is not tight enough and the spring doesn't throw the beater back far enough away. All kinds of variables here to see that we can't see. The last time I saw this phenomenon the drummer-in-questions' technique was just bad. He liked to bury the beater, which in effect made his 24" bass drum sound smaller than it was. Once we worked on getting the beater off of the head, regardless of how it was tuned or if it was single-headed or not, then he started getting into the John Bonham realm.
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Old 12-22-2010, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

One reason for double hits is if you aren't getting your foot out of the way quick enough on the rebound, but since this has only been an issue with the new drums, everybody elses suggestions should improve things. The beater strikes the head at a different spot on a 24 as a 22 and it sounds like you just have to get used the feel of the 24. Man I haven't even played a 24 since the 80's. I had a 1976 Ludwig Blue Oyster Pearl set w/ a 24" kick..... Man, what a sound.
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Old 12-23-2010, 01:36 AM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

Hey lads here is the upgrade, I do have a ported reso as well. So I loosened up the batter head quite a bit and took the reso head down a bit as well, then i loosened the tension spring and it has improved. Thanks
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Old 12-23-2010, 03:24 AM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

I was going to recommend making one change at a time and give it a few practices before making other changes. So you get a better idea of what changes are having a particular effect.
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Old 12-23-2010, 03:30 AM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

Stop burying the beater and the problem will be solved.
That all that there is to it.
Heel up or down, If you bury, you will get multiple hits on the bass.
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Old 04-06-2011, 11:06 AM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

I used to have that problem when i started not burying the beater. It took a while but it's just a matter of practice. You just have to learn to control the pedal enough with your foot to prevent the beater moving back and forth after a hit.

I wouldn't suggest constantly changing spring tension and stuff like that, you just need to get used to it and eventually it will stop.
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:34 AM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

Is the ps3 a double layered head? I experienced some double hits when using a coated ps4. but I switched back to a single layered head and it went away.

Is your beater set far back? How high/low is the footboard? I found it very easy to do heel toe with the footboard set fairly low, but that increased the double hits. Now I have the footboard a little lower than medium I guess, works fine.
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:58 AM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

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Originally Posted by Sjogras View Post
Is the ps3 a double layered head? I experienced some double hits when using a coated ps4. but I switched back to a single layered head and it went away.

Is your beater set far back? How high/low is the footboard? I found it very easy to do heel toe with the footboard set fairly low, but that increased the double hits. Now I have the footboard a little lower than medium I guess, works fine.
PS3 is a single ply version of the PS4
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Old 04-13-2011, 06:14 AM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

Loosen the batter head tension and the pedal tension, that worked for me.

Also consider moving your foot up farther on the pedal, it will give you more control.
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Old 04-14-2011, 03:30 AM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

It definitely is your technique. Don't bury the beater but relax if after the hit.
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Old 04-14-2011, 03:59 AM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

Mostly very useful advice, but I love the people who chime in knowing already with certainty that it is a technique/bury issue.

I play with different BD techniques, depending on the type of music and other factors.
In my current band, for the kind of stuff we do, I usually find myself playing heel up, and burying the beater. It yields tone that you don't otherwise get with heel down. And for certain stuff, it's just a very natural thing to bury the beater.

I guess after 40 years of play, I still don't know what I'm doing.
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Old 04-14-2011, 08:07 AM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
Stop burying the beater and the problem will be solved.
That all that there is to it.
I tend to do this, and I don't have this problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
Heel up or down, If you bury, you will get multiple hits on the bass.
I don't. See above. (If I did, I would also consider it a problem.)

I agree that playing off the head, much in the same way as with drumsticks, always gives a more full tone, so I'm not trying to spark a technique debate. I work on it occasionally, but I've done it for years after I started playing the kit. I had great hand technique from school band, but didn't play any kit until after high school. I think I have decent BD technique, besides the beater-burying, i.e. I don't stomp my foot, raise my leg much, I use mostly ankle movement, etc. That all said, it doesn't necessarily imply that the tone one gets from burying the beater is always BAD (mine is quite good), nor is it a given that playing this way is a problem, or will always give double hits or "buzzes".
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Last edited by timmdrum; 04-23-2011 at 08:55 AM.
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  #23  
Old 04-19-2011, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

I don't think this has anything to do with head tension as much as the pedals tension. I play my bass drum fairly tight, no port on the reso, and have had this happen to me when using different pedals. I borrowed a neighbor's PDP pedal for a while and this was happening with his all of the time. Then I got an Iron Cobra and the problem went away. I recently have switched to an old Speed King with no problems. Last week I tried out a "New" Speed KIng and the double-hits came back. Took that back and stayed with the old pedal. I did not change my technique at all throughout all of this.
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

Don't bury the beater. Find a pedal that you like and stick with it, I have used the same DW5000 for years now. I had a bit of trouble getting used to it, but it never affected my playing in a negative way. But this sounds like its all technique.
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

I seemed to be having the same problem. This didn't happen in my drum lessons on a acoustic kit but it does now on my Roland kit. Maybe I did bury the beater in my lessons but never heard it??

Would doing anything to my Pearl Eliminator sort this or do I just have to become aware of the way I'm playing? Maybe tighten or slacken the spring?? I've also read on here that tightening it makes it heavier and slow so I thought that would have stopped the double taps.
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Old 05-06-2011, 07:17 AM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

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Originally Posted by Drummer Sarah View Post
I seemed to be having the same problem. This didn't happen in my drum lessons on a acoustic kit but it does now on my Roland kit. Maybe I did bury the beater in my lessons but never heard it??

Would doing anything to my Pearl Eliminator sort this or do I just have to become aware of the way I'm playing? Maybe tighten or slacken the spring?? I've also read on here that tightening it makes it heavier and slow so I thought that would have stopped the double taps.
For 18 years, I played my old Tama Camco pedal with the spring tightened all the way, and as stated above, have generally "buried the beater" also, with no buzz or double hit. 2 years ago when I finally retired the Camco and got an Iron Cobra, I tightened that spring all the way too, and got LOTS of buzz/double hits. Either the Camco pedal was old & wearing out, or wasn't as strong as the new pedal's spring to start with, but loosening the spring some did the trick for me. It's still pretty tight but not all-the-way tight like when I first got it.
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Old 05-06-2011, 11:24 AM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

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For 18 years, I played my old Tama Camco pedal with the spring tightened all the way, and as stated above, have generally "buried the beater" also, with no buzz or double hit. 2 years ago when I finally retired the Camco and got an Iron Cobra, I tightened that spring all the way too, and got LOTS of buzz/double hits. Either the Camco pedal was old & wearing out, or wasn't as strong as the new pedal's spring to start with, but loosening the spring some did the trick for me. It's still pretty tight but not all-the-way tight like when I first got it.
I think I've tried all combos of tightness on mine but still does it :( I've not tightened it the whole way before though....can that be done on an Eliminator?? I keep turning the thing but it never stops! haha I keep thinking it will end up snapping if I carry on. It's just annoying that I have to be aware of this when playing and stop myself but for 4 years I haven't had to, because it never happened!
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Old 05-06-2011, 01:29 PM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

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Originally Posted by Drummer Sarah View Post
I seemed to be having the same problem. This didn't happen in my drum lessons on a acoustic kit but it does now on my Roland kit. Maybe I did bury the beater in my lessons but never heard it??

Would doing anything to my Pearl Eliminator sort this or do I just have to become aware of the way I'm playing? Maybe tighten or slacken the spring?? I've also read on here that tightening it makes it heavier and slow so I thought that would have stopped the double taps.
That would be head tension against an over-tight pedal. The Roland heads certainly have more rebound than conventional drum heads and that's what's causing the fast snap back and double hit. To compensate, I'd slacken the spring considerably.

I'm of the opinion that once you've played a certain pedal setup for long enough, you get used to it. I play with a medium-low pedal tension and I'm able to get plenty of power if I want. Tighter springs do not in themselves equal more speed or power - they just add extra resistance and rebound to the stroke. If you're pushing down against a very tight pedal, then it will rebound quickly, but your foot will still have a lot of power from overcoming the physics of the downstroke and you end up with a double stoke. With a higher rebound head, this becomes much worse.

I play on a huge variety of kits, including a kit with a 16" bass drum (high head tension) a 22" (with reasonably low tension) and an electronic set - as well as other peoples' kits on occasion. By having a more versatile pedal setup, I've never had the 'double-hit' problem. At least not in the last seven years. Unburying the beater is good advice, but it sometimes depends on the style you're playing as to whether or not it's appropriate.

It will feel very alien to start with when you slack off the pedal and you might not like it. But stick with it for a couple of weeks and you'll find that the problem disappears and you'll get used to the setup. It will help.
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Old 05-06-2011, 10:50 PM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

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Originally Posted by mediocrefunkybeat View Post
That would be head tension against an over-tight pedal. The Roland heads certainly have more rebound than conventional drum heads and that's what's causing the fast snap back and double hit. To compensate, I'd slacken the spring considerably.

I'm of the opinion that once you've played a certain pedal setup for long enough, you get used to it. I play with a medium-low pedal tension and I'm able to get plenty of power if I want. Tighter springs do not in themselves equal more speed or power - they just add extra resistance and rebound to the stroke. If you're pushing down against a very tight pedal, then it will rebound quickly, but your foot will still have a lot of power from overcoming the physics of the downstroke and you end up with a double stoke. With a higher rebound head, this becomes much worse.

I play on a huge variety of kits, including a kit with a 16" bass drum (high head tension) a 22" (with reasonably low tension) and an electronic set - as well as other peoples' kits on occasion. By having a more versatile pedal setup, I've never had the 'double-hit' problem. At least not in the last seven years. Unburying the beater is good advice, but it sometimes depends on the style you're playing as to whether or not it's appropriate.

It will feel very alien to start with when you slack off the pedal and you might not like it. But stick with it for a couple of weeks and you'll find that the problem disappears and you'll get used to the setup. It will help.
Yeah I'm thinking the same, if I play this way for a while I'll just get used to it. I tried slackening the spring as far I could but it still does it. It's really slow at the moment. If I want to do a double hit I press the pedal down but by the time I go for the second hit the foot board is still where I left it! Really slow. I don't know maybe I'm a bit out of practise a bit. I'll just play and play untill I've sorted myself out :D haha Thanks for you help
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Old 05-06-2011, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

No problem.

Try not to go to the extremes. Try and find a comfortable middle point. It's very easy to think that the extreme of either range is going to be a quicker solution, but it's not - variations in the middle ground are probably the most sane place to adjust your pedals to. In my case, it's the lower end of the middle.

Just let your foot get used to it. It could be overcompensating and tense technique, too - so keep an eye on that.
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Old 05-07-2011, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

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No problem.

Try not to go to the extremes. Try and find a comfortable middle point. It's very easy to think that the extreme of either range is going to be a quicker solution, but it's not - variations in the middle ground are probably the most sane place to adjust your pedals to. In my case, it's the lower end of the middle.

Just let your foot get used to it. It could be overcompensating and tense technique, too - so keep an eye on that.
Okay I'll chill out on the whole spring thing haha! Just a tad impatient, want to be able to play the way I used to be able to without any hassle. Thanks again for the tips :-)
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Old 05-07-2011, 06:41 PM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

It's a technique issue. Head tension and pedal setup shouldn't matter, neither does burying the beater. If you're playing heel up, concentrate on using the ball of the foot, don't play with the toes. Repetitive practice is the only way to develop a solid stroke.
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Old 05-08-2011, 06:27 AM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

Quote:
Originally Posted by piperdoog View Post
Ok guys I have been drumming awhile now and recently got into a new kit and am having some very frustrating issues with the bounce back double hit thing going on on the bass drum. I have read some advice but cannot figure this out. Here are the details, I'm running a PS3 batter (not sure the age) but seems to be in great condition, I have a ported reso, and the tension on the bass drum pedals does not seem to make a difference. I have the batter head fairly tight, and the reso running pretty tight as well not over the top by any means just tighter, so should I really loosen them off?
I hve never had this problem before so I wouldn't say it's technique, but am finding it quite frustrating.
Should I buy a new head?
Anyways any advice would be really appreciated.

Cheers
Haha! No waaaaay! Ive just got a new kit and went out a purchased new heads - I am getting the double hit on the kick too! Slight difference though - I am using Evans EMADs. I think maybe the heads just need a good kicking to wear them in... Possibly...
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:41 PM
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Default Re: What the hell is up with these double hits????

It sounds like it's a weight distribution issue to me. Here's a lesson I posted on my Youtube channel about it. I hope it helps!

http://www.youtube.com/user/mpacker4.../0/tHbiwmttIAY
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