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  #1  
Old 12-09-2010, 03:48 AM
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Default Full Drum Mic Equipment

Hello Drummerworld ,

I'm total new to anything that has to do with Drum Microphone Equipment , so i decided to ask for help here.

The equipment i was looking at was ,

Mixer : BEHRINGER XENYX XL1600 - http://www.thomann.de/gr/behringer_xenyxxl_1600.htm

Speakers : BEHRINGER EUROLIVE B212D (or B210D) -

http://www.thomann.de/gr/behringer_eurolive_b212d.htm

As for microphones , yet i haven't decided to any.
So the purpose of this equipment is to allow me to handle parties and other small events.
Specifically , adding 1)Music , 2)Drum Covers along with Music , 3)Live Music

So my questions are ,
Regarding the mixer : Is it a good choice for my purpose? Can it be connected with a laptop and send the signal from laptop to speakers?

Regarding the speakers : Is the speaker type ideal for this purpose? The frequency respond (hz) will handle the drum's frequencies? Playing drums along with music will damage the speaker?

That's my silly questions that come through my mind right now , please if you have anything more to add , feel welcome.
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  #2  
Old 12-11-2010, 12:48 PM
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Default Re: Full Drum Mic Equipment

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Rhythmic View Post
Regarding the speakers : Is the speaker type ideal for this purpose? The frequency respond (hz) will handle the drum's frequencies? Playing drums along with music will damage the speaker?
My first thought, above all your questions is, how loud will your speakers be to compete with you playing the drums to the music. I would seriously advise you to use headphones taking a mix of your mics and the music to level where you can heard yourself through the mics. Don't damage your hearing!
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Old 12-11-2010, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Full Drum Mic Equipment

Yes, that gear will do what you want. If your computer has an audio output, all you have to do is have the correct cable to come out of the computer and plug into the mixer. Shouldn't be a problem, probably an 1/8" stereo male plug to a a pair of 1/4" mono plugs so you can plug each side of the stereo into it's own separate channel so you can pan each side left and right. That will leave you with 14 channels for everything else.

The challenge you may find yourself with is whether or not your speakers will have enough power for what you want. It's always better to err on the side of too much power. Buying powered speakers is good, but then you're stuck with that rated power output. I prefer to buy non-powered speakers and a separate power amp for the speakers, then if I need more power, you only need to upgrade your amplifier.

If you're planning on miking up the drums, I would recommend a separate big power amplifier and speakers with a 15" speaker. Your system will have to contend with the full frequency range from bass drum to cymbals and playing music as well. A 12" speaker will most likely handle it, but a 15" would be the better choice. LIke I said, err on the side of having too much power - it's easier to turn things down than trying to push a little system too hard.

Also, you will be monitoring through headphones anyway because the placement of the speakers, if you're playing your drums, will be next to you but slightly in front, so you won't really be able to hear what you're playing along with anyway since the speaker is designed to project forward. The mixer has a headphone output, so you might as well tag a pair of professional earbud headphones on the list too. Something like the old Shure E2c would work really well here.
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Old 12-11-2010, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: Full Drum Mic Equipment

Bo how can you in good faith recommend Beringer crap? Steer clear of Beringer.
I'd go Samson before Beringer as far as the budget stuff goes.

Mackie mixer, Mackie or JBL powered speakers..Buy once, cry once.
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  #5  
Old 12-12-2010, 08:18 AM
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Default Re: Full Drum Mic Equipment

Beringer is OK, but if something goes wrong with them, I'd throw it away before I would tear them apart to repair them. To me they are consumables, lol. Besides the others that were mentioned, Yamaha has several different varieties in their MG lines.Some are straight mixers and others are USB. Anything from 4 mic channels up through 24 microphone inputs. They cost a bit more than what you would shell out for a Beringer, but most of the specifications and serviceability is much better with the Yamaha mixers. Never mistake the total number of inputs of a mixer with the total number of low level microphone channels. You can have a 12 channel mixer, but it might only accept maybe 4 or 6 balanced microphones. The other channels are usually high level or high level stereo channels that standard microphones will not have a high enough output level to work with the mixer without using separate preamps.

Dennis
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Old 12-12-2010, 08:32 AM
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Default Re: Full Drum Mic Equipment

For the kinds of gigs that you are talking about (small parties), it should not be necessary to mic the drum set, unless you wish to drive people away.
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Old 12-12-2010, 08:34 AM
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Default Re: Full Drum Mic Equipment

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Bo how can you in good faith recommend Beringer crap? Steer clear of Beringer.
I'd go Samson before Beringer as far as the budget stuff goes.

Mackie mixer, Mackie or JBL powered speakers..Buy once, cry once.
I wasn't commenting on the brand. I was talking about the size configuration. I figured I'd leave the brand name talk out of it right now as I'm sure someone would have enlightened our OP on the subject anyway. But when you talk about the numbers and the features, he's spot-on. As soon as I start talking brands, then it's harder to make an informed decision, and besides that, what if our OP can't afford better than the Behringer? I know people who buy it and use it, and some of them have to upgrade within months and some don't. It depends on how the gear is used.

My system includes a Yamaha O1v 96 mixing console, but how many amateur drummers want to drop $2300 on a 40 lb. mixing console? Some people just don't need it and it's more important to have food on the table. You could go Mackie, but I only like the original VLZ mixers, and with those you have to have an external effects unit and add compressors as you need, so if you really care, those aren't a viable option either, you end up spending more anyway. Cheaper Yamaha and Mackie have effects built-in, but they're not too far away from the Behringers, so out of default I thought it better not to bring it up.

Buying a good, solid PA system takes money. If you don't have it, Behringer will help you at least get something to get you started and learn about the process, at least. Sorry to upset you Larry!
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Old 12-12-2010, 10:26 AM
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Default Re: Full Drum Mic Equipment

Thank you all for your answers!!

However , here comes another newbish question.

Quote:
Buying powered speakers is good, but then you're stuck with that rated power output. I prefer to buy non-powered speakers and a separate power amp for the speakers, then if I need more power, you only need to upgrade your amplifier.
I don't understand the "upgrade" part.

For example. If we have a random passive speaker with 250/1000W (RMS/Peak) power ,
and an amplifier , with 2x 250.

That means 250W from amplifier to each speaker right? We have reached the maximum RMS limit haven't we? How do we upgrade then? If we add more watt than the RMS limit , won't we burn the speaker?

: /
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: Full Drum Mic Equipment

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Rhythmic View Post
Thank you all for your answers!!

However , here comes another newbish question.



I don't understand the "upgrade" part.

For example. If we have a random passive speaker with 250/1000W (RMS/Peak) power ,
and an amplifier , with 2x 250.

That means 250W from amplifier to each speaker right? We have reached the maximum RMS limit haven't we? How do we upgrade then? If we add more watt than the RMS limit , won't we burn the speaker?

: /
Without getting too technical, let me use an example. I look at it like buying a car with a big engine. Sure, it may be more power than you think you need, but in real-world driving, the bigger the engine, the more efficiently it handles everything. The engine is never at its maximum, it's cruising all the time, with power to spare in case you need to bump it up a bit.

There is a thing called Ohms when you read the power rating of amplifiers too. When amps you look at say "250/1000" the amount of ohms is what you need to know. Speakers normally sound good at 8 ohms. The lower the ohms, the dirtier the sound. I've seen amps rated at 500W with a 2 ohm 'load' (that's the speaker plugged into the amp - it's a measure of resistance that the amp has to get through to put sound through the speaker). But since the speaker is rated at 8 ohms, your actual wattage going through the speaker would only be 250W, for example. So the numbers can be deceiving. Look at amps rated for 8 ohms, and know how many ohms that speaker is rated at.

Powered speakers already do this thinking for you in a way, but my point is that you're basically stuck with that power rating. When you need more power, you'll have to buy bigger powered speakers, which is a bigger investment compared to just purchasing a bigger power amp. Maybe for a fixed installation, it will be good. But since I never know where I'll be performing, I like my power separated from the speakers so I can pick and choose when I need more power, or less power...

I have a speaker that can handle 250W at 8 ohms. I plug it into an amplifier rated at 350W at 8 ohms. It's 100W more than the speaker is rated for. My mixer's main output is set to 0. No resistance going to the amp form the mixer, but each individual mixer channel is not running at maximum, yet the sound is clear and powerful. My system is cruising down the freeway, and I have enough power to do some passing if I need to.

Member Audiotech should chime in here to correct me and better explain things, but this is basically how I operate. You can never have too much power.
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Old 12-12-2010, 12:05 PM
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Default Re: Full Drum Mic Equipment

I'd go with DMC's appraisal. If most of your gigs are under 200 people, use your money to buy good heads and spend some energy on good tuning technique for acoustic gigging. If you must buy a PA, I'm in the Larry camp here. Stuff like Beringer is great for converting a perfectly good sound input into something horrible. There really is nothing good about that stuff. Ok, yes, it's cheap, but you'd be better off farting into a paper cup, really! Bo's right, a seriously good compact PA is a considerable investement, but if you're really going to use a PA, it's worth it IMO. Why spend time & hard earned money getting a good drum sound, only to ruin it with big black boxes full of rubbish.

I'll give you a live example. We played an outdoor venue twice last year. About 700 people in a courtyard setting. Not easy territory for a small scale PA. First time round, we did the gig with our own compact PA. It's about 1.6kw total FOH, but super efficient. DB Technology Opera two way powered tops with the same brand reflex powered subs + Allen & Heath desk. Fully mic'd kit. The sound was sublime. Ok, I'll admit, we were using it right to the clipping limit, but it was sharp, detailed, balanced, full & plenty loud enough for a full on rock gig. Plenty of crisp bottom end on the kick too.

We played the same venue 3 months later, but were forced to use the event hire PA. 12kw of Beringer!!! WTF???? It looked mighty impressive, but sounded like crap. Boomy upper bass/lower mid, nothing below 100hz, really harsh highs. Just dirty, dull, & nasty. The sound guy was sort of ok, but he was working with rubbish.

With Beringer & other budget stuff, you're buying big boxes with inflated claims attached. Our gear is a quarter of the size of comparable power Beringer rubbish, & blows it into the long grass. Just think of all that extra transport cost & lugging associated with mostly empty cheap chip cabinets.

Sorry for the mini rant, but I hate that stuff with passion & take every opportunity to steer the unenlightened away from wasting their money. It's my given duty!!!!
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  #11  
Old 12-12-2010, 07:36 PM
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Default Re: Full Drum Mic Equipment

There! A second voice telling the OP to avoid Behringer. In my part of the world, I think names like Crown, JBL, Yamaha (Professional), EV, QSC, Soundcraft, Allen & Heath, Mackie (if you must). Peavey even has some really nice professional level things to use.

Perhaps you should check out a book called Live Sound for Musicians, by Rudy Trubitt. It'll at least explain everything you need to know theory-wise. Then you can make a better informed decision on what your electrical needs are. That would be better than buying stuff right now.
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Old 12-12-2010, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: Full Drum Mic Equipment

Behringer is a bad word around all of the people that I play with too.
Everyone that I know has tried a Behringer product and disliked it.
They ranged from amps to PA and recorder/mixers.
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Old 12-12-2010, 10:03 PM
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Default Re: Full Drum Mic Equipment

Behringer is not good at everything. But I have to say they are good at some things.....or else their stuff would not be around.

Dude 1Rhythmic, be selective. The "B" word company may be your current budget. Treat it like gold once owned and protect it well.

My bass player brought a Samson mic, and an "off brand bass" to rehearsal last year and I heard them both and unplugged them and said "please don't bring them back". He now owns a Sennheiser mic and Fender Jazz.

So, is all Samson stuff crap? If left to me on that one experience, yes. (KBadd laffs!)

Caveat Emptor.
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Old 12-12-2010, 10:30 PM
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Default Re: Full Drum Mic Equipment

Thank you very much fellas for your help.

I'm not in hurry to proceed to purchase , so i'll just keep looking and learning!

One other thing i wanted to ask the speaker frequency respond sector.
When choosing a speaker , is it critical for me , to look for a large range frequency responding speaker or i won't hear the difference?

For example , two speakers ,
1) with 12' woofer has a frequency range 60-18 hz
2) with 15' woofer has a range 50-20 hz

In that case , what has higher priority? Woofer size or frequencies?
(For drum covers etc...)

Thank you :D
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