Is it always the case when you join a group ...

AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken · #1 11-30-2010, 06:52 AM

That the guitarist who runs it will hand you like sixteen-page drum sheet music scores for their 'passion project' music, written in Guitar Pro, with no repeating grooves and multiple time signature changes, played at around 300 bpm like a machine?

And that when you say "hey, this is impossible for a human", they'll grudgingly allow you to change a few notes if you "make sure anything you add sounds like" some genre pro with decades of playing experience who is not only much better than you, but certainly wouldn't play this stuff for free?

Just curious :-P

Bo Eder · #2 11-30-2010, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken

That the guitarist who runs it will hand you like sixteen-page drum sheet music scores for their 'passion project' music, written in Guitar Pro, with no repeating grooves and multiple time signature changes, played at around 300 bpm like a machine?

And that when you say "hey, this is impossible for a human", they'll grudgingly allow you to change a few notes if you "make sure anything you add sounds like" some genre pro with decades of playing experience who is not only much better than you, but certainly wouldn't play this stuff for free?

Just curious :-P

It's always good to remind the music writers how much they're paying for you to be there. That always works for me.

Or you could bring in your own charts and say you'll play their stuff if they play your stuff. Sounds only fair. Especially since no one is paying anybody....

Wavelength · #3 11-30-2010, 07:49 AM

Nope, never happened.

harryconway · #4 11-30-2010, 08:10 AM

No, never. If I'm the drummer "joining" an already established group, we have a little "sit down" first ... before I even cart all my kit somewhere. And we talk. Get a feel for "personalities", etc. Get the "suprises" out of the way....

azrae1l · #5 11-30-2010, 08:11 AM

being the primary song writer i have never been opposed to somebody changing something ESPECIALLY when they tell me what i envision is too complicated and it usually ends up that way anyway. things always sound way easy and way cool in my head. and i've never been opposed to anybody else's ideas. just cuz i'm the more creative out of the bunch doesn't mean nobody else is or i'm the only one that can be.......

MikeM · #6 11-30-2010, 02:24 PM

Reminds me of a Craigslist add I saw recently where this young band was looking for a drummer to help them record their demo. They had a huge laundry list of requirements (mad double kick skills, fluent in the drumming styles of all these wicked metal guys, lots of odd-meters, must be a teetotaler, etc). I couldn't resist the urge to reply asking them how much they were planning to pay such a drummer (servant). Of course, their reply was nothing and with the tone that any drummer they chose for this should feel privileged. I replied with a, "Great, good luck with that!"

jonescrusher · #7 11-30-2010, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wavelength

Nope, never happened.

+1 Can't say i've experienced this.

alparrott · #8 11-30-2010, 03:53 PM

+2. Remind me never to look for jobs in your market!

Garvin · #9 11-30-2010, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeM

Reminds me of a Craigslist add I saw recently where this young band was looking for a drummer to help them record their demo. They had a huge laundry list of requirements (mad double kick skills, fluent in the drumming styles of all these wicked metal guys, lots of odd-meters, must be a teetotaler, etc). I couldn't resist the urge to reply asking them how much they were planning to pay such a drummer (servant). Of course, their reply was nothing and with the tone that any drummer they chose for this should feel privileged. I replied with a, "Great, good luck with that!"

Nice...

I always wonder what people who consider themselves "serious musicians" are thinking when it comes to getting paid. I'm realistic about my time commitments and abilities, as well as those musicians I'm playing with. I have multiple projects as well as a "real" job. When I answer calls for fill in gigs, or "studio work" I sometimes met with confusion when asking about payment. I'm not asking for a thousand bucks or anything. I keep it reasonable, and I understand what people can afford. I'm not a "professional" drummer, but if I'm gonna pack my drums up and leave my family for 5-6 hours, I have to come home with something to show for it other than a meal and a few beers. I can't feed my family a meal I already ate.

MLdrum · #10 11-30-2010, 04:43 PM

I played in a band some time ago, where one of the guitar players would come with
a new tune from time to time. We played a sort of mixmash between Meshuggah,
Lamb of God, Mastodon and sometimes a bit like a band called Sikth. And quite often
there was parts that where in 3, 5, 7 or 9 of some sort. The guitarplayer would play
me the riffs/parts and the time signature would fit mathematically, but trying to count
and think logical phrases to it would be almost impossible :p (and yes, he used
GuitarPro to tab it all down)

But if you and the composer got the time, ask the him/her to come and go through
everything with you on some spare time. It could save you a lot(!) of time trying to
learn it. If you go for it.

I think I would at least try =)

Florian · #11 11-30-2010, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harryconway

No, never. If I'm the drummer "joining" an already established group, we have a little "sit down" first ... before I even cart all my kit somewhere. And we talk. Get a feel for "personalities", etc. Get the "suprises" out of the way....

this. You need to get your minds wrapped around what youre all doing and the direction of things...
Well said, Harry!

F

ricc333 · #12 11-30-2010, 06:17 PM

I've been on both sides of the spectrum, being the guy joining a group that's been around, and being the guy in charge. And I've run into similar dilemmas as you. Lil background first. I'm from West BAH-GAWD Virginia. While there surprisingly is a few really great musicians around here. Most are your guitar/bass/drums in the back room. I don't think many people around here have even heard of Guitar Pro...consider yourself lucky. A lot can shred, but can't play music. They can write songs, but they can't play in a band. I lot of the OP's complaints are stuff I've seen. Especially programming an impossible drum part they expect you to play, but all of a sudden they're just playing for beer money after the show. Yup...been there.

Anyways, players like this don't know how to be in a band. If they really want someone to play the drum parts they write, that's what drum machines are for. You have to let your players play. I've been that perfectionist guy handing completed demos over to my bandmates. However, they're not going to get into it like I do if I don't let them invest themselves in it. When I used to hand my band a demo, I would purposely over-simplify the parts so the others could take their parts and run with it. It's trading a little bit of "exactly what I wanted" for some damn enthusiasm. Any good bandleader should get that. Stupid drummer in WV does. I learned that from the bandleaders that gave me a shot to play.

It's also dumb to say "I want you to play like so-and-so". That's kind of insulting if you think about it. Even though the project I'm working on now is pretty much a 1-man band kind of thing, I'm bringing a couple people in to do stuff I just don't have the ability to do. But the people I'm bringing in, I'm bringing in because of what they naturally do. I have two friends with pipes from above to do some vocals and I'm not about to say "I'm shooting for Tori Amos". I'm bringing them in because they sound like Holly and Mari. If I wanted them to sound like someone else, I wouldn't have called them. The last band I played for had already been around for a few years, but they called me up because they liked how I played. We would work songs out for hours, and they would give me lots of input on my parts, but it was about music, not names.

Honestly, if I were you I would ruuuuuuuuuun. You have nothing to gain from this other than your "I survived the guitar ego vortex" merit badge.

caddywumpus · #13 11-30-2010, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alparrott

+2. Remind me never to look for jobs in your market!

+3. Yeah, this is a situation where I'd pack up without saying a word and leave that instant. With those kinds of control issues, there's probably a rack in the back room they were about to put you on...

rogue_drummer · #14 11-30-2010, 06:32 PM

In the words of "Monty Python and the Holy Grail": Run Away!!!

Seriously, ask for money to do this. Whoever said to charge is absolutely correct. Why spend 5 - 6 hours away from your family or your life whilst trying to appease this guitar dude who obviously doesn't have a clue? You need something for your efforts in return. (On a side note, I recently got into a peeing contest with a band leader because I didn't want to travel for an hour by car to a small town's coffee shop and play two hours for free. On a Friday night. In Texas. During football season. I told our leader I wanted at least money to cover my gas expense down there and back. She reluctanly agreed to let me sit this one out. Guess what? I was right. They set up and played for two hours and the only people in the coffee bar were 2 patrons! The owner didn't advertise; didn't do anything to help the band. And even got pissed off because the band "took up too much room and had too much gear!" They won't be playing there again.

And anyone who has been around bands long enough knows you can't very well write out the drumset part for every note and expect the next guy to play it perfectly, especially at the level you are talking about and for free.