The Grand Master Buddy Rich

[theduke86]

I love that video. A great, great showcase of Buddy's musicality. He's playing for Prez and Ella, with a lot of brushes. Very supportive and cool. I love Prez too- it's easy to see where Charlie Parker got some of his stuff.

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

Yes, there might be better drummers technically speaking nowadays. There might be better/faster drummers (you know, they use double bass technique and such thing...), they might have better chops, but there's one reason for me to always, and I mean always turn automatically back to those Buddy videos... there's no video I see the most than that "channel one" video on here... that's sooo beautiful... the dynamics, the acents he put so delicate to the notes... the sheer creativity and spontaneous combinations and the order he gave to each sequence of notes and the conjunction of the whole thing put together... the total stick control, hiper fast hands, amazing, and I really mean AMAZING cymbal work, there's nothing better than it. Nothing. No pure-chops guy can make me wanna see his videos every single day of my life, and that's exactly the kind of "full-realised-pleasure" I only get when viewing/witnessing/listening to Mr. Buddy Rich. And he did all that with just a simple, basic/classic 9-piece (or something as small) kit...

I'm kind of a newbie to the real quality drummers (not much time has passed since I've discovered guys like Vinnie Colaiuta and Buddy Rich, but I'm really glad I did. They've changed my life forEVER... now I can apreciate the drums exactly (or even more) like I do when listening/watching to a a violin virtuose, the drums can transmit so many distinct sounds and feelings when on the right hands, they really amaze me "now" (more than ever).

Thank you, Mr. Buddy Rich. As much cheezy and corny as it may sound. Indeed.

- Ivo.

[Bernhard]

Originally Posted by theduke86

I love that video. A great, great showcase of Buddy's musicality. He's playing for Prez and Ella, with a lot of brushes. Very supportive and cool. I love Prez too- it's easy to see where Charlie Parker got some of his stuff.

No, sorry, I can't love this video. They destroyed it by adding another sound or something else happened (He plays Cymbals - movie is hihat, he plays stand-tom - movie there is only snare, good sample also the trombone: plays just something else....
I definitively think: they acted playback in the movie to a given music....fits more for pop, not jazz imo...

Bernhard

[theduke86]

You're right Bernhard, I must not have been paying much much attention. For me it's still cool to see all those guys.

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

Originally Posted by DogBreath

That makes perfect sense to me. It also reminds me of a few years ago when Garth Brooks, who at the time was at the top of the Country Music charts, declared that Rock Music was easy, and he recorded and released a rock album to prove how he could be a rock star as well. It sucked, the critics hated it, and no one bought it. He did his absolute best, and he was horrible. (Amazon lists 214 of the CDs new and used starting at 65 cents)

Just because you are the best at something (as many would say Buddy was), doesn't mean that you can be the best at anything else. Buddy did not have the ability to be a great rock drummer, or a great Latin drummer. That doesn't take away from what he was, but there's no need to pretend that he was more than he actually was.

Say he was a pioneer. That's a fact. Say he was the greatest drummer ever. Fine, that's an opinion. But it's just silly to say things like "His speed was equal or better than anyone today" or "He never made a mistake while drumming." No need to make him into more than he was. Any one of us should be so talented!

To say things like "His speed was equal or better than anyone today" makes perfect sense, actually. There may be (and there are) some faster drummers out there using the (in)famous finger technique, but not using the wrists and certainly not playing and reaching the sticks that high while surpassing the 1000+ bps. Certainly not. And I certainly need a video to prove me wrong.

- Ivo.

[DogBreath]

Originally Posted by CadaveR (Ivo)

To say things like "His speed was equal or better than anyone today" makes perfect sense, actually. There may be (and there are) some faster drummers out there using the (in)famous finger technique, but not using the wrists and certainly not playing and reaching the sticks that high while surpassing the 1000+ bps.

So you even admit that there are faster drummers today, they just use different techniques? Buddy was a pioneer, but I repeat, it's silly to say that there is no one faster than him today. There are many, many faster drummers, but that in no way takes away from the greatness of Buddy Rich.

Many of the threads in this topic suffer from two types of posters: those who bash, and those who give greatly inflated praise. Keep it real. Show respect for the real man, not the fairy tale.

Fan-boys do their idols a disservice by praising them beyond their actual abilities. That's the whole point of the Chuck Norris jokes: they are only funny because they are ridiculous exaggerations of someone's abilities.

(and no, that wasn't an invitation for anyone to post their favorite Chuck Norris joke!)

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

Originally Posted by DogBreath

So you even admit that there are faster drummers today, they just use different techniques? Buddy was a pioneer, but I repeat, it's silly to say that there is no one faster than him today. There are many, many faster drummers, but that in no way takes away from the greatness of Buddy Rich.

Many of the threads in this topic suffer from two types of posters: those who bash, and those who give greatly inflated praise. Keep it real. Show respect for the real man, not the fairy tale.

Fan-boys do their idols a disservice by praising them beyond their actual abilities. That's the whole point of the Chuck Norris jokes: they are only funny because they are ridiculous exaggerations of someone's abilities.

(and no, that wasn't an invitation for anyone to post their favorite Chuck Norris joke!)

This all regards (again) to "that" ol' controversal "cheating issue in the drumming community" kind of subject. I do think it's Buddy's own merit the high speed he's got in his lifetime and his extreme endurance using his effort-requiring wrists-techniques... you need to be certainly stronger to go through a 1-min-long or more solo at around 1.060 bps using only and just only your wrists power... the muscule, we all know how it can get tired and hurt, there's no comparision between finger muscules fatique and wrists' fatigue, and I truly think that's a merit of Mr. Buddy Rich; to his speed, strength and endurance. While others (like Mr. Mike Mangini and his "ground-breaking" "single hits" record of 1.260bps) insistently continue to use the finger technique. You cannot disconsider the extra amount of power required to sustain that Buddy Rich speed for so long time, so controlled and just hardly using the stick's rebounds and the power of his wrists; I do think the way to achieve something is something to be considered, not just the final result, from anyway, by anyone, anytime. But that's just my humble opinion anyway... a "blind fanatic" I am...maybe...

- Ivo.

[theduke86]

Originally Posted by DogBreath

So you even admit that there are faster drummers today, they just use different techniques? Buddy was a pioneer, but I repeat, it's silly to say that there is no one faster than him today. There are many, many faster drummers, but that in no way takes away from the greatness of Buddy Rich.

Many of the threads in this topic suffer from two types of posters: those who bash, and those who give greatly inflated praise. Keep it real. Show respect for the real man, not the fairy tale.

Fan-boys do their idols a disservice by praising them beyond their actual abilities. That's the whole point of the Chuck Norris jokes: they are only funny because they are ridiculous exaggerations of someone's abilities.

(and no, that wasn't an invitation for anyone to post their favorite Chuck Norris joke!)

I hear what you're saying. There's some truth to this- I believe there may be some people who can play a faster 60 second single stroke roll who have trained it.... as far as all over virtuostic hand technique across musical (this is kind of a debateable term) boundaries, I think Buddy has it. Vinnie's got great hands, Louis Bellson does, Joe Morello, et al, I haven't heard anyone TOP Buddy. If we're measuring by WFD standards, then of course it's different.

[Class A Drummer]

WOW I JUST REALIZED! he used paiste cymbals.

[brittc89]

Originally Posted by Class A Drummer

WOW I JUST REALIZED! he used paiste cymbals.

Whered you get that fact from? Buddy Rich used Zildjian cymbals, at least for a majority of his career.

[Class A Drummer]

Originally Posted by brittc89

Whered you get that fact from? Buddy Rich used Zildjian cymbals, at least for a majority of his career.

well i saw the buddy rich vid where he was in that pink sweater, and i saw under one of his cymbals (think the ride) the word "Paiste" so i figured he used pasite, then went to zildjian. Actually think that he went from zildjian to paiste, mainly because he looked very very old in that video and was probably a little before he died.

[agoo750]

Originally Posted by toteman2

Buddy is than man, no doubt...It's true alot of younger drummers don't care to hear him...To me he os one of the great pioneers of the instrument...I do think he really was a jerk though...Not showing others how to do the famous 1 handed roll? Seems a bit arrogant...I also think claiming he is the greatest drummer ever hands down is beyond arrogant...Like eveything else, drumming has evolved and gotten better with time and knowledge...

Haha, I heard that he had to pay people to play for them.

[infernal drummer]

no doubt the old guys like buddy rich, gene krupa and even brian bennet plays some exellent stuff.. just saw the drum solo from buddy rich.. not bad for a old timer

what i miss from these guys.. is more drums!!! the more drums the merrier i like the sound of 6 inch toms then a sudden roll down to the 13 - 16 .. and so on..

no.no. no. no. no. buddy rich played jazz, not metal....

[infernal drummer]

im pretty sure that every drummer no matter what style or type of music they play could add more drums :D IF they feel like it

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

Originally Posted by infernal drummer

no doubt the old guys like buddy rich, gene krupa and even brian bennet plays some exellent stuff.. just saw the drum solo from buddy rich.. not bad for a old timer

what i miss from these guys.. is more drums!!! the more drums the merrier i like the sound of 6 inch toms then a sudden roll down to the 13 - 16 .. and so on..

I'll assume you're kidding on this one. "not bad for a old timer", heh, that's pretty hilarious. I'm sure you don't know but Hellhammer's (Mayhem's great drummer) favourite drummer is Buddy Rich. More so than Vinnie Colaiuta or Dave Weckl, according to his own self. And if you really like metal drummers, you might recognize the name "Ian Axel Bloomberg" as well. Very probably the BEST xtreme metal drummer of today. : )

If you really like lightning-fast drums, I really suggest you to check out there three videos of Buddy below:

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/b...ticktrick.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrich1970.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrich1978.html

...and check them out carefully. They're worth it. I promise. Technique, phrasing, precision, speed, swing, control, clarity, dynamics, accents, creativity, innovations, style, dexterity, ambidextry, raw talent and a left hand and a sense of showmanship all put together like NO ONE ELSE. : ) Maybe a "little" unrealistic, but simply realistic, as much as it is difficult to believe.

Enjoy.

Originally Posted by infernal drummer

no doubt the old guys like buddy rich, gene krupa and even brian bennet plays some exellent stuff.. just saw the drum solo from buddy rich.. not bad for a old timer

what i miss from these guys.. is more drums!!! the more drums the merrier i like the sound of 6 inch toms then a sudden roll down to the 13 - 16 .. and so on..

It kinda works like this . . . the older you get, the better Buddy Rich gets. By the time you're 20, Buddy Rich will be your hero.

[ewanlaing]

he really knew what the audience wanted. a jazz fanbase may appreciate rudiments, but they won't want to sit through buddy rich playing every rudiment to death. instead he kept it fast, lively and fun.

[infernal drummer]

yeah i have seen all the videos from him.. and yes i am kidding when i say "not bad for an old timer" :D .. i could never play as fast as him..
ppl can learn from all the old timers. listen to drum solo from brian bennet.. the litle b .. that is also some exellent stuff..

for metal (speedmetal) i like mickey dee (check out the helloween album "rabbit dont come easy" and ppl will know the word speed hehe) and uli kusch..

none the less.. ill still say the more drums.. the better the sounds ppl can make. if they know how to use them. i have no doubt that gene or buddy could have.. p.s. im not talking mike portnoy drumkit .. just a couple of 6" and 8" ..

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

Originally Posted by infernal drummer

yeah i have seen all the videos from him.. and yes i am kidding when i say "not bad for an old timer" :D .. i could never play as fast as him..
ppl can learn from all the old timers. listen to drum solo from brian bennet.. the litle b .. that is also some exellent stuff..

for metal (speedmetal) i like mickey dee (check out the helloween album "rabbit dont come easy" and ppl will know the word speed hehe) and uli kusch..

none the less.. ill still say the more drums.. the better the sounds ppl can make. if they know how to use them. i have no doubt that gene or buddy could have.. p.s. im not talking mike portnoy drumkit .. just a couple of 6" and 8" ..

Heh, yeah... I've always thought how amazingly great would be to have someone like Buddy behind a drumkit playing xtremely fast xtreme metal with xtremely fast blast beats with the only dexterity he had to go along throught ALL the song xtremely fast and fluidly... that would be a dream-coming-true. He (Buddy) would be an insane metal player, that's for sure! :p but OF COURSE, the best way for Buddy to explore his talents was in Jazz and in it's intrincate possibilities, certainly NOT in Metal.. he's from the 20's after all.... :p just wondering those hiper-fast-never-fatigued-hands doing what they know best doing (and doing it in a metal gig...) WOW... :]

[johnhavart]

I'am looking for the video in which Buddy originately did this. Is it on Drummerworld ? If so where ?

Thanks

[tomgrosset]

heres the link. he has several videos.

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Buddy_Rich.html

Originally Posted by tommy

heres the link. he has several videos.

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Buddy_Rich.html

I think he means the video of when people first saw him do it.

[johnhavart]

Yes The first one in Drummerworld where buddy does it
Thanks
John

[mikejames]

Hi everybody,

I'm a lifelong drummer, (since 1964) and was hugely influenced by Buddy Rich, as many of us were. I've also traded links with Bernhard since around 2000, and am a big DrummerWorld fan.

I've been compiling previously unpublished concert clips of Buddy and his bands, contributed by drummer friends and me, and am hosting them (free to download, of course) on my site at http://www.mikejamesjazz.com/br_clips.html (previously NextCraft™)

If you have unpublished audio clips, video clips, or photos that you would like to share with other drummers, please email me, and I will happily host them. This is a completely non-profit venture. I host the files for free, properly crediting the source they came from, and make no money of any kind from that. It's just sharing great music with others.

I encourage those of you who have these things "in your closet" to consider allowing the rest of us to hear and see them.

Enjoy!

[Just Drums]

D@mn. It really never gets old how amazing he really was. The single stroke roll near the end was one of the best parts.

[bigbeatbenny]

Great Site!


Thanks for this added collection of Buddy Rich Material. I know I speak for many people when I say that we can never get enough! I was wondering if there is any unpublished video clips of Buddy still out there and whether or not it could get on your site.

[Bernhard]

Yes Mike James - great

I know, I must also update your links....will do.....

Bernhard

[mikejames]

My pleasure to share this with all of you. I just hate to think of how much great music there is like this of Buddy and other artists, that we will never hear.

On Cathy's BR site forum, ( http://www.buddyrich.com ) I've offered to host video too, if anyone contributes some that won't get me in legal trouble. Of course, that invitation goes for all viewers here, too. I have plenty of space for hosting, and I do web design, so I can post whatever comes in almost immediately. Regardless, thank you for visiting!

And Bernhard,
You have created the best drum-related site on the planet! Keep up the tremendous work, and I appreciate the link update when you have time. Drummerworld is first class.

Take care, everybody.

[organochloride]

For me, Rich was the greatest drummer even, and bonzo too, i think if we could make a time machine and put them side by side in a drum battle, we have a very rare style drum battle, ver interesting and rare!!!!!

[brittc89]

Originally Posted by organochloride

For me, Rich was the greatest drummer even, and bonzo too, i think if we could make a time machine and put them side by side in a drum battle, we have a very rare style drum battle, ver interesting and rare!!!!!

I dont think so. Im pretty sure Buddy would just lay a smack down on old Bonzo.

[chris--byrne]

Originally Posted by dothecrunge

I highly doubt that Kathy Rich had backstage access, and I also highly doubt that Buddy Rich would've even wanted to go backstage to meet these "incompetant musicians" as he was probably mumbling to himself when he was at the show.

I think quite of other musicians thought Led Zepplin were incopetant. The name Led Zepplin even came from harsh comments, Kieth Moon said "They'll go over like a Lead Zepplin" he heard/was told about the band. I hve no doubt in my mind that Led Zepplin were definatly one of the best bands ever, mainly because of the way they could all play together and be so good inidvidually.

As to Buddy's comment, for him to even take notioce of Bonham and know who he was, that surely shows that Buddy has some respect for the man.

[funked_up]

If Buddy Rich and John Bonham had a drum battle, John Bonham would get his nuts handed to him.

[NUTHA JASON]

i think the arguement is a moot point. we will never know...and they were different styles.

btw, bonham and moon were friends and 'going down like a lead balloon is a compliment. when a gig goes down it means it is going well. git down ya'll. kieth could see the ingredients were all there for a super group....he knew they would be a sensation.

j

[k3ng]

Getting the Buddy Rich sound? For some strange reason I love the sound of his toms, even though they sound quite flat sometimes..

Anyone know what gets the buddy rich sound?

[The Caterer]

"Going down like a lead balloon" is most certainly NOT a compliment!

Having done many gigs that have gone that way I know!

[NUTHA JASON]

i beg to differ. the slang in the midlands of england circa 1970...going down meant it was going well...think of swallowing a pill or drinking a pint... it's going down. just like heavy and phat are compliments these days too.

according to all sources i've come across kieth admired bonzo and they were mates.

j

[The Caterer]

Originally Posted by NUTHA JASON

i beg to differ. the slang in the midlands of england circa 1970...going down meant it was going well...think of swallowing a pill or drinking a pint... it's going down. just like heavy and phat are compliments these days too.

according to all sources i've come across kieth admired bonzo and they were mates.

j

The Midlands of England is where I'm from, and "going down like a lead balloon" is one of the more polite ways of ariticulating that something has not gone well. However I utterly concur that it is a matter of record that Moonie and Bonzo had the highest regard for one another.

[cdrums21]

Buddy Rich was arguably known as the greatest drummer of all time...kind of like Xerox being the king of copiers, if you know what I mean...but what made Bonham extra cool was that NOBODY got a sound like him. I think Buddy may have copped the groove that Bonham did but he sure wouldn't have copped the sound. Could you hear Buddy playing "When the levee breaks' and it sounding as powerful as Bonzo? Probably not...Just my opinion...

[mikejames]

A few prerequisites...
Buddy used drums made differently than they're made today. (fewer, thicker plies, and usually maple) Also, the vintage drums I've played (like "Radio Kings") have slightly larger diameters, so there's less of that modern "ka-wang!" overly-resonant sound. He used white coated Remo "Diplomat" heads mostly. To my ears, almost any drum set sounds a lot better in a big concert hall. (where we typically heard Buddy) Buddy typically carried a piece of 1/2" plywood with the band, on which the drums were always set up. (no carpet) And of course, his awesome technique made the biggest difference in the sound. But anyway...

i've heard Buddy play drums tensioned in a variety of ways, and have even followed equipment trucks back to the music store, when a local store provided drums for certain concerts, and tapped on them myself, using a pitch pipe as a reference. I would say that this was a waste of time. Buddy was a "normal" drummer, in that he didn't spend hours sitting at the set with a drum key in his hand. If the drums sounded "good", or even "ok", Buddy could kick a band and thrill us with the sound. He may have been a little more finicky during recording dates, but I can't even guarantee that, since the drums vary (quite a bit, sometimes) from one album to another.

Buddy typically tensioned his drums a little tighter than most people would think. Using pitch as an example for the top head tension: snare: a to c - (bottom head about a 4th to a 6th higher, say E to F# - (Toms, both heads the same) 9X13: d - 16X16(1) g - 16X16(2) c - Bass drum: a to c

Important...
Buddy often did not touch the drums for long periods of time. So, especially using "Diplomat" heads, the top head pitch would naturally go down, over time. There are recordings of Buddy where the drums are obviously loose, but still tensioned to about the same (5th) intervals. The pitch is NOT important... In fact, I'd say that you really don't want the pitch to be heard, because it can interfere with the music. It's just a combination of high, medium, and low tones, brought to life by a drummer who really knew how to play emotionally.