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#241
03-05-2006, 11:57 PM
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Re: The Grand Master BR
Quote:
Always humbled by Buddy. But, again my position stands. I've been exposed to alot of Buddy, and alot of others. Sure he may have been 61, but he sure was on fire that night. 
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#242
03-06-2006, 06:51 AM
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Re: The Grand Master BR
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#243
03-06-2006, 08:15 AM
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Re: The Grand Master BR
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Other drummers I also enjoy (and who posses some - and JUST some -) similarities in terms of talent with Buddy Rich: Joe Morello (great/excellent! technique, but not quite such an outstanding player as Rich), Dennis Chambers (technique, "huge hands", extremely fast with the hands and great creativity in general!!! A very funky and mastered drummer!!), Chick Webb, Steve Gadd (fantastic grooves, feelings while playin' and body movements), Lionel Hampton, Gene Krupa, Art Verdi, Mike Mangini (the world's funniest drummer EVER.. the guy is the dumbest drummer to ever seat on a drum set!!! Heh), Dave Weckl (fantastic technique and motion/speed control of any kind), Vinnie Colaiuta (fantastic drummer in almost/virtually every single rhythm in existence), Virgil Donati (great speed!, excellent technique and pretty interesting stick tricks), Thomas Lang (very similar to Virgil in terms of drumming atributes...), Hellhammer (Mayhem's - and for MANY other xtreme metal bands - drummer, the unique metal drummer to ever be graced with such honour - how how how... - insane double bass technique-and-speed ;-)) and Eloy Casagrande (QUITE young but EXTREMELY promising as a talent!!!), "etc". I think that's a short and pretty cool list to hold as an influence to any drummer's help. At least that's how I understand all the drummers that I talk about above. Of course there are MANY others but I could'nt think of anything better when considering a shorter list of essential names which receive influence from. - Ivo. Last edited by CadaveR (Ivo); 03-06-2006 at 08:28 AM.
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#244
03-06-2006, 05:09 PM
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Re: The Grand Master BR
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#245
03-06-2006, 11:56 PM
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Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich
The man was one of the few artists in the world that God just said, "you're going to do that." I am amazed at the things I see him do and really believe that he could do anything that any drummer could do, as can the rest of us. Buddy just seemed to have that natural ability to more or less do whatever but there's nothing wrong with the rest of us doing what we do when we can.
While he was a master technician and could swing like no one he still cannot escape the realm of subjectivity. While I am always amazed at what he can do I can say that I prefer other drummers and their soloing abities as well as their groove, depending on the style of music, that is. I've never been too fond of watching guys just "go for it" with their single stroke rolls. Buddy and Ed Shaughnessy's battle for example was great but after 2 or 3 exchanges it got old. I'd rather watch drummers like Horacio Hernandez, Thomas Lang, Terry Bozzio or Bobby Rock who do a lot of ostinatos with their feet while they play with their hands, either solos or grooves. It's not just the challenge of 4-way independence but also the fact that it makes the kit sound more orchestral. After while a speed fest sounds like typing and how many of us sit there are day watching people type in the office? Don' t get me wrong though, I still love whipping out the old videos and checking him out but I also think there are times to move forward and allow ourselves to witness the growth of the instrument. There's nothing wrong with admiring those that are here now as well as seeing them in the same light as Buddy. There's a lot of drummers, even in Buddy's time that were special and to just bow to this guy like he's God Almighty, I don't see the point. I guess I just feel for the kids who never got to see him live. I was really young at the time but I did get to see him play live once and it was indeed awesome. But to tell you all the truth, I've gotten the same thrill in watching some of the drummers today that are also doing things that a lot of us cannot do. I guess all we can do is keep the discussion going. But again, Buddy was indeed special.
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#247
03-07-2006, 01:43 AM
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Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich
Sorry, I just don't like him. I know this is heresy, but his style has no musical quality to me. Very fast, precise, outstanding stick control (to say the least), but to my ear not musical.
Just my opinion, undoubtedly unpopular.
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#248
03-07-2006, 03:03 AM
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Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich
Sure, Buddy Rich was great. But to say that he was the best ever is strictly a matter of opinion.
I saw Billy Cobham in the '70s when he was in his heyday, and I think that he was every bit as good as Buddy Rich. That's my opinion.
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#249
03-07-2006, 10:11 PM
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Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich
Quote:
When you think of the greatest musicians in history, the true masters of their instruments, who do you think of? Jascha Heifetz, Vladamir Horowitz (or Arthur Rubinstein), Andres Segovia, Tommy Dorsey, Benny Goodman, Harry James, Charlie Parker? Buddy Rich was every bit as great a musician as any of them!
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#250
03-08-2006, 10:53 PM
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Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich
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- Ivo.
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#251
03-08-2006, 11:08 PM
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Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich
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#252
03-09-2006, 09:07 PM
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Buddy Rich on Bonham
Read an interesting quote from Buddy Rich in an article from on the more recent issues of Modern Drummer.
I can't recall the name of the drummer who the article was about but in it he mentions that in the 70's he asked Buddy what he thought about Bonham. Buddy according to the article proceeded to sit down at the kit and do a spot on perfect impersonation of Bonzo and then looked up and said...."John Bonham?.....anybody can do that" Discuss........................
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#253
03-09-2006, 09:10 PM
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Re: Buddy Rich on Bonham
hahaha, that's just the sort of person buddy is, i read in a book that buddy rich was a major influence over bonham.... intriging, is it not?
__________________
"You can play a shoestring if your sincere." - John Coltrane
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#254
03-09-2006, 09:12 PM
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Re: Buddy Rich on Bonham
I also read that article and I'm not that suprised that Buddy could do an impersonation of Bonham It is not that hard for somebody that good to do an impersonation of a fellow drummer.
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#255
03-09-2006, 09:15 PM
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Re: Buddy Rich on Bonham
okay...while i don't doubt buddy's talent and that he probably could do something like that i must make a few observations:
1) the drummer who watched buddy made his own subjective judgement of buddy's bonzo impersonation. buddy may have only closely copied bonham. 2) copying a groove is very different from making one up. so i'm not that impressed. 3) the fact that buddy was aware enough of bonzo to be able to copy his playing is quite an endorsement of bonham's skill. although, from what i have seen of BR, he would never admit to it, he probably deep inside admired bonham. j Last edited by NUTHA JASON; 03-09-2006 at 10:05 PM.
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#256
03-09-2006, 09:17 PM
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Re: Buddy Rich on Bonham
3 words for u nutha; very well said
__________________
"You can play a shoestring if your sincere." - John Coltrane
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#257
03-09-2006, 09:21 PM
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Re: Buddy Rich on Bonham
I think if I had Buddy's technical skill I would also look at the drumming of Bonham as fairly elementary.......
I'm not knocking Bonham....I appreciate his rare talent and understand why he is so influential...but if I were Buddy..............
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#258
03-09-2006, 10:34 PM
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Re: Buddy Rich on Bonham
Both kings in their own right, but neither had the other's exact skill set. To me this is merely hearsay.
"A" read an article written by "B" interviewing "C" who mentioned "D" said "X" about "E". I suspect some data loss in this transfer.
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#259
03-10-2006, 01:57 AM
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Re: Buddy Rich on Bonham
It all depends, since they are each good, but it different aspects. Buddy Rich is considered to have had the fastest hands ever; indeed, no one can even mimic his speed. Rich is also considered one of the greatest jazz drummers of all time. Bonzo is considered the greatest rock drummer by many (including myself) and is noted for innovative grooves, thunderous sound, lightning fast right foot, and his epic soloing abilites, as he could solo for almost a half hour and still maintain the crowd's attention. When it comes down to it, the two are separated by genre, but in terms of technicality, Bonzo seems to be ahead. Consider this: How many people listen to Led Zeppelin? Now after considering the staggering number, consider this: How many people listen to Buddy Rich? Probably not as much as those who listen to Led Zeppelin. Bonham continues to inspire generations of rock fans, and while Buddy Rich inspires people to get added speed and creativity, John Bonham inspires people to play. Led Zeppelin itself (which is the main reason Bonham is known, other than the Yardbirds) is probably about as inspirational as all of Buddy Rich's project's thrown together, due to the amount of peopl Bonham was able to affect. In terms of skillty, I cannot tell. Feel free to scourge, devour, and rip apart this post at your own disposal.
- Marc
__________________
Passion is poison laced with pleasure, bittersweet. One of many faces, that hides deep beneath.
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#260
03-10-2006, 02:10 AM
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Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich
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#261
03-10-2006, 02:12 AM
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Re: Buddy Rich on Bonham
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It seems to me that BR's music was based around his playing a lot as where Zeppelin just made great songs. So yeah, I'm sure more people listen to Zeppelin. In terms of technicality I think BR has more technical hands but Bonzo has more technical grooves. Now if I could just have BR's hands and Bonzos grooves hmmm... Last edited by drumbig; 03-10-2006 at 03:15 AM.
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#263
03-10-2006, 04:24 AM
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Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich
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What amazes me the most is to find how impressive was Buddy at mixing his incredible, out-of-this-world techniques with such sheer creativity... the aplication he gave to those techniques in those (his) classic solos is absolutely amazing. Everytime I show some of my mini collection of Buddy's solos to my friends, they always stay with their mouths WIDE opened in amazement (me too, of course)... it's just amazing. Every (single) time. I've definitely NEVER seen ANYBODY who could amaze me more than Buddy (so easily) could. - Ivo.
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#264
03-10-2006, 04:29 AM
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Re: Buddy Rich on Bonham
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His Bonham mimic routine was more of a disdain for anyone mentioning others before mentioning him. That's the kind of guy he was. But sometimes you could get him on a good day and he could be less than a jerk. I kind of doubt he studied anyone other than Krupa or Chick Webb, and only when he was much younger. I was something like 12 at the time, so I suspect the legend gets bigger inside me as the years pass. As drummers go, he was very respectful of Morello, Jo Jones and Louie Bellson. He was a perfectionist. If you didn't match up to him you sucked. This made him a very frustrated man. Simply stated, he lived in a black and white world. I think he liked Bonham well enough. Still, his favorite rock drummers were Bobby Columby and Danny Seraphine by a wide margin.
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#265
03-10-2006, 04:32 AM
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Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich
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#266
03-10-2006, 04:36 AM
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Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich
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- Ivo.
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#267
03-10-2006, 07:46 AM
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Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich
I don't like Thomas Lang solos, but saying Buddy can do everything this guy could do is going a little too far. I'm sure if Buddy would have studied that kind of drumming he would have been amazing at it, but he didn't learn to drum like that, so he couldn't. That's not to say he ever needed to. Even without all the ridiclous limb coordination, multi-pedal orchestrations, polyrhythms and whatnot he was still 1000 times the drummer Thomas Lang will ever be.
__________________
Shameless plug for my band, Methods of Doubt: http://www.myspace.com/methodsofdoubt
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#268
03-10-2006, 05:13 PM
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Re: Buddy Rich on Bonham
Ahhh Buddy Rich, the great drummer with a low life attitude towards people.. What a shmuck. I hope in his day someone actually stood up to him and put him in his place. Maybe even dotted his eye for him. I guarantee he would have remembered Bonham in a whole new light had he said that to his face.
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#269
03-10-2006, 05:56 PM
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Re: Buddy Rich on Bonham
Quote:
Matt
__________________
Ludwig Wood /Aquarian Heads/ Zildjian Brass http://www.myspace.com/drumsbymatt Last edited by DogBreath; 03-10-2006 at 08:25 PM. Reason: Edited for inappropriate language
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#270
03-10-2006, 07:10 PM
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Re: Buddy Rich on Bonham
Obviously Buddy was only taking into account how many notes Bonham played. Maybe if he had observed his uncanny talent for grooving and making a song sound larger than life, his oppinion may have been a little different.
Oh well. I know what kind of a guy Buddy was, so it really doesn't surprise me that he would say something like that about a rock drummer.
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#271
03-10-2006, 07:17 PM
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Re: Buddy Rich on Bonham
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I saw both sides of him and still loved the guy. When I was young, he treated me great. Rich supposedly hired Matt Smith's dad three times and fired him twice. Tom once said that had he on one ocassion moved an inch to the left, the guy behind him would have been fired instead. Still, he still evaluates Rich as one would perceive a god. In other words, he disliked the guy but deferrred to the talent. I do not believe that is so hard to understand. I see a lot of commentary about the negative side of Rich's personality, as if being nice to people shares an interrelationship with talent. We must first understand Rich's own upbringing. He was required to submit product when most of us are still in diapers. He learned his initial lessons from notorious taskmasters like Tommy Dorsey and Artie Shaw...men who never asked nor gave any quarter. Then he watched first hand how disciplinary lapses wiped out performing colleagues and friends like Charlie Parker, Charlie Ventura and Art Pepper. In the case of Ventura, he tried to help him several times, only to have Charlie acuse him of stealing his band, when nothing could have been farther from the truth. Sure he was a jerk. But he grew up in an era when anything less than your best was not enough. I am certain he would be appalled by this recently evolved incessant need to stroke fellow musicians whether they deserve it or not. Of course he went too far, and Matt is right. Prozac would have helped, but it also would have taken some edge off his playing. I applaud the perfectionist tendencies, although I can never condone the approach. Still, these guys would take the abuse and keep coming back for more. That alone speaks volumes. Last edited by DogBreath; 03-10-2006 at 08:29 PM. Reason: Edited for inappropriate language
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#273
03-10-2006, 08:19 PM
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Re: Buddy Rich on Bonham
The only interesting part in this is:
Must somebody be a jerk to be a good drummer? The answer is: NO So I enjoy Buddys drumming - which is definitively great.... ...and I'm not interested what he did or said thirty years ago on a bad day. Very cold coffee - but his drumming will stay forever. Bernhard
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#275
03-11-2006, 12:10 AM
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Re: Buddy Rich on Bonham
I think of Buddy playing in front of maybe a thousand people, in a small club somewhere in Idaho. I think of Bonzo playing in front of 75,000 people at the Pontiac Silverdome.
Imagine yourself as Buddy, and then imagine yourself as Bonzo. I think more people would have liked to have been in Bonzo's place, rather than Buddy's.
__________________
My style is impetuous. My defense impregnable, and I'm just ferocious.
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#276
03-11-2006, 01:29 AM
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Re: Buddy Rich on Bonham
What he said!...
I would imagine that Buddy must have been jealous of the adulation of those famous rock drummers like Bonzo, Ringo...the list goes on and on, while Buddy toiled in relative obscurity...
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#277
03-11-2006, 02:46 AM
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Re: Buddy Rich on Bonham
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Honestly, (at least in America) Bonham was only well known by a singular (although large and enthusiastic) demographic. All the saying to the contrary doesn't change that...and has been refuted many times on this and other threads. In fact, he was not even the most famous rock drummer at the time (although I agree with most of you that he was the best of that group). Starr, Appice, Watts and even guys like Buddy Miles were far better known. Moreover, people forget how popular Chicago was. They also were filling football stadiums and appearing on television. This made Serraphine a big deal indeed. I mean this in all sincerity. Rich's name recognition was probably second only to Ringo's during the period in question. There were people who knew about Rich because of the television alone...and a lot of these people knew nothing of his drumming... but knew him. Back then, Bonham was the biggest to you. But I doubt your parents had heard of him. At the same time, I'll bet your parents, your grandparents, and all the uncles you only see at Christmas had heard of Rich, and chances are good that none of them cared much for jazz. Now that's fame. Like him or not, give credit where credit is due.
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#279
03-11-2006, 03:22 AM
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Re: Buddy Rich on Bonham
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A little off-topic but heh.. I love Peart's quote of "you see the phrase 'Buddy Rich, the world's greatest drummer' and you don't REanalyse it, you just accept it as a fact" - or something close to it. What an honour for him. - Ivo.
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