The Grand Master Buddy Rich

[stapes2260]

this clip has been around forever....


did you know that this clip is the basis for a seinfeld episode?

[foursticks]

Originally Posted by jangus

I dont think its about respect. I think its about getting the job done and getting a paycheck. If I was in his band I wouldnt mind the yelling as long as I got paid. If you cant take a little verbal abuse you should go back to elementary school.

yeah you make a good point but if u call saying the f word 132 a little verbal abuse then i d hate to get on your bad side....

[burnthehero]

I've heard about Buddy's attitude before. It doesn't really surprise me, to be honest. Musicians with monster egos is nothing new.

[somedrummer]

I remember from my several readings of Traps, The Drum Wonder that Buddy just wanted everyone to be giving as much or more to the music than he was. And, If he felt that they werent, he was going to lay into them. It ws expected.

Personally, I would still love the chance to play with a band like that (even though they would chew me up and spit me out).

[Damon Dapper]

I think that was hilariously funny, and I'm sure some of his Band members were laughing pretty hard too.

Being on the road all the time is beyond stressfull.

Gotta Toughen Up!

Dap.

[jangus]

Originally Posted by foursticks

yeah you make a good point but if u call saying the f word 132 a little verbal abuse then i d hate to get on your bad side....

HA.


What Seinfeld episode? I never heard anything like that.

[LiveGoat]

I dunno, my dad was a lot like Buddy and if anything after awhile that sort of thing only leaves people feeling degraded and instinctively rebelling by screwing up more. Sure, an occasional "what the hell's going on fellas, get it together!" is fine but the kind of ranting Buddy did is just not right. That said, he's still a hero of mine and after all the drama, so's my dad.

LG

[finnhiggins]

There's a difference between being a hard taskmaster and being a prick.

Buddy was, reportedly, more of the latter from what I've read. I mean, compare experiences from musicians who worked with Frank Zappa to those who worked with Buddy Rich. Zappa had some of the best contemporary musicians in the world through his band, and he pushed them as hard as he could. Look at where he made Vinnie and Bozzio take their abilities, for a start. But you don't read stories about him doing stuff like this to his band.

Running a band is like running any business - you have staff, you have work they need to do, you have jobs that need to be performed correctly. Having a culture of excellence is one thing, but having a boss who screams at employees and threatens to fire them at random is another. And, IMHO, they're actually rarely the same thing. That's my experience, anyway. My feeling would be that Buddy managed to hold together an amazing band despite his tendency to go off the deep end rather than because of it.

[aahznightsky]

Originally Posted by TOMANO

Responding to the last post, I'm pretty sure Buddy Rich is not dead due to the fact that he didn't keep a particular band together. I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure...Yeah, um...yeah...

I wasn't saying his death had anything to do with keeping the band together or anything like that. I just meant that the band was able to survive and play afterwards, because they were such great musicians.

[Dannar]

Originally Posted by aahznightsky

Ummm, that's why buddy is dead and his band has since played with the absolutely biggest names in drums (besides BR)! And the band is really smoking, if you havent noticed. They can play! I wouldn't mind playing with them.

Buddy most likely didn't keep this band, he didn't have the same band his entire career, he replaced people, people left, the band that continues to tour as the "Buddy Rich Band" has probably even changed players here and there. I think this band wasn't a usual line up for Buddy, the whole time he is telling them to go back to Sydney, It may have just been a temporary band, since alot of big bands would do stuff like that. Just bring in a band and they would read the horn charts.

I agree that the current band is a really hot band!

I laugh, every time I hear that stuff....it's EXCELLENT.

The kids working in the industry today, will NEVER know how hard most of the so called 'legends' had it. THEY WORKED damned hard....and they played hard, also.
They had a creed and an ethic, and if you couldn't hack it, you were nothing.
It was survival of the fittest, and that's why so many of the players from that era were as good as they were....the level of competition was so high, if you couldn't perform at it, that's it, you were toast.
Bands and players lived and died on their reputations to deliver. It's a system that could at times be very brutal, but, produced absolute masters.

And you should know, Rich was never harder on anyone, than he was on himself.

[aahznightsky]

Originally Posted by Dannar

Buddy most likely didn't keep this band, he didn't have the same band his entire career, he replaced people, people left, the band that continues to tour as the "Buddy Rich Band" has probably even changed players here and there. I think this band wasn't a usual line up for Buddy, the whole time he is telling them to go back to Sydney, It may have just been a temporary band, since alot of big bands would do stuff like that. Just bring in a band and they would read the horn charts.

I agree that the current band is a really hot band!

i don't know about the specific band he was yelling at on the link, but just based on the guys we see on the DW videos, you keep on seeing the same horn players and stuff. And then if you watch a few of the Buddy Rich videos, you can see the same players but younger! So whichever band THAT was, they were pretty swell. that's all i was talking 'bout.

[andrew_carter]

Originally Posted by stapes2260

did you know that this clip is the basis for a seinfeld episode?

Oh come on, you can't just leave it at that! :) Which one?

Andrew

[berlioz]

Originally Posted by andrew_carter

Oh come on, you can't just leave it at that! :) Which one?

Andrew

heres the link to the answer (scroll down abit)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddy_Rich

[Isaacs]

Interesting. It almost struck me as though he was mad (but more than mad, just venting) in that he threatens a lot but it does not seem as though he truly believes what he is saying. I mean, I know he was a pro and a perfectionist but it is not like he let bad musicians on the stage with him......I mean, there were try-outs, right?

I was laughing though, at times........."get him off the bus, right now, I don't want him on the ******** band, you ********* ***** ******* ******** playing like children you ********** I mean, I would have probably been scared to death in that spot but still, it's kind of funny now.

Isaacs

And a song someone did regarding these tapes...

Buddy Cute

[Roo]

After watching the biography on Buddy Rich that his daughter pulled together for him, it's easy to see why he freaked out sometimes. It was stressed in the biography how much perfection he demanded from his band on a daily basis. If he played with all of the best in the world, it's no wonder he got frustrated with younger guys who thought they could play but really actually "sucked" in his mind. I know personally there's never such thing as a perfect gig, but I think Buddy defied that saying with an iron fist. Don't forget it takes a hell of a person to be able to keep his band in line like, and a hell of a drummer to do the things he could do!

hahahaha Mlehnertz, that song is freakin wicked, hahahahahaha

[sound zap]

I would love to see a brand new 21st Century Buddy Rich Memorial video

[centralzeke]

I've read in some places things along the lines of "if you want to play like Buddy Rich, i.e. develop speed, the gladstone technique is the way to go".

But then you look at Buddy Rich play, and it seems like he grips his sticks very tight and uses mostly wrist. It doesn't look like he uses as much of the rebound as other players like Weckl and Morello do. What's the deal?

[Class A Drummer]

We all would. i figured his whole life he should have gotten plastic surgery or somthin on his face... i know kinda random.

[Steviepap]

Having studied with Henry Adler, I agree that Buddy's grip is different. Henry modeled the way he taught students to hold their sticks and turn their hands on how Buddy did it (along with the fulcrum used by violin players). This included holding the right hand stick between the thumb and first crease of the forefinger. You would actually see a space between yhe thumb and forefinger. The right hand would generate movement by thew wrist, but also by the tip of the forefinger, as well as the 3d and 4th fingers. The left hand was propelled mostly by the thumb (using traditional grip), with the fingers very active in the process. The one difference that surprises people - and it surprised me, too - is how the left hand holds the stick with the palm facing up. Henry always said that to do otherwise would limit the turn of the hand.

[Lingenfelter Twin Turbo]

I don't think this one is on this site. He is 61 years old in this clip. Words can't describe Buddy's talent!
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/62425/...8_buddy_is_61/

[AvengedDrummer]

Such an amazing solo....Those comments prove some people dont realize the skill it takes to do some of that stuff.

[Bonham to the moon]

man, i really think that he has the fastest hand of all time

[finnhiggins]

Originally Posted by AvengedDrummer

Such an amazing solo....Those comments prove some people dont realize the skill it takes to do some of that stuff.

The comments are a nightmare of idiocy as a whole on both sides. You've got the "Good lord, that's just noise, I could do better than that" school versus the "Man, u sux, haven't you eva herd of syncapashun? Plus, that's really hard to do!" crowd.

They're both right, in a way. Yeah, that stuff is immensely hard. Yeah, Buddy was one of a kind and he's still pretty much untouchable. But on the other hand, I find myself agreeing with the people listening to it going "That's not musical". Any five seconds of that solo would absolutely knock my socks off in the context of something more structured and dynamic, but as a whole I tend to find Buddy's solos quite dull because of the absence of space or shape.

He's the kind of drummer who blows me away when he's playing time, continues to blow me away for about twenty seconds of the solo and then shortly later causes me to switch off the album and listen to something else.

yeah finn, I agree. I am on record several times on DW as not being the biggest Buddy fan. That stuff is amazingly difficult, but man, it just gets tired after the 1st minute (not to mention, this is only like the 100th video just like that posted).

I think he put EVERY Buddy trick in that video...the one handed roll, the reach down and play the bass drum with the stick, the playing of the sticks together, playing on the rims and changing the pitch...All very classic stuff.

For those in that other thread that say "speed doesn't matter" they should probably watch this video and realize that without a practice pad and technique, 95 per cent of this solo is impossible. Also, for those who don't think rudiments are important, watch again.

But yeah, I'm with finn here. I was only blown away because I'm a drummer and I know how technically difficult a lot of that stuff is. As a music fan though, it doesn't do anything for me. I actually thought the best part was one he played that little groove with just his right hand and bass drum note. But being Buddy, that lasted about 5 seconds, then he was back to blazing singles on the hi hat.

[burnthehero]

I agree with Stu and Finn on this one. I don't get much from Buddy's solos. After about a minute, I feel like I'm just watching a chops-a-thon.

[Afrolicious]

Wow that's exactly what I thought but I've been unsure if I'm just ignorant and don't see the big cool concept behind these solos. Of course they're technically great but especially if you don't have that much knowledge about drumming they just bore you after a few minutes. I prefer musical stuff with a kind of melody.

Originally Posted by Afrolicious

if you don't have that much knowledge about drumming they just bore you after a few minutes.

Yeah, that's what I've never understood about Buddy. His drumming is very technical. Why do non-drummers like it so much? You would THINK people that don't drum would get bored of it, but they seem to like it better than people like me and finn.

[rjvsmb]

This thread has been an interesting mix of opinions (educated and not).
Buddy played with the people who are considered legends: Louis Armstrong
Count Basie, Bunny Berigan, Irving Berlin, Benny Carter, Nat King Cole, Miles Davis, Dorsey Brothers,Tommy Dorsey, Frank Sinatra, Roy Eldridge, Duke Ellington,
Ella Fitzgerald, Stan Getz, Dizzy Gillespie, Benny Goodman,
Lionel Hampton, Woody Herman, Harry James, Stan Kenton, Jimmy McGriff, Charlie Parker, Oscar Peterson, Artie Shaw, Bud Powell, Mel Tormé, Art Tatum, Lester Young,
Barney Kessel.

Sorry for the exhaustive list, and that's just a taste, but greatness is a combination of ability, talent and body of work. That list of names represents the three criteria I listed. Buddy wouldn't have had the longevity nor would he have played with the greats without being an extraordinary musician (and one of the greats himself). If you don't have an understanding of the greatness represented in the list of artists, then a good portion of the discussion is lost.

You may not like Buddy's style, and that's ok, but that does not change the fact that he is one of the greatest artists that make up the tapestry of American music history and shaped how drummers approached the drums. Much like Gene Krupa did before him and Baby Dodds before him.

If you have to question Buddy's musicality, then you haven't listened to him. Watch his Montreal Jazz festival DVD. A really great look at his speed, power, touch, his great techique, his ability to play for the song and drive a big band.

And for his solos consisting soley of fast single strokes, take another look. His snare and cymbal work is loaded with more than just single stroke.

I like Buddy's drumming. I am always blown away with what he can do with his feet and hands when soloing, but it's his drumming in context of the music that is really what makes me appreciate his talent.

Listen to the Burning For Buddy cd's, then listen to those same songs with Buddy playing. There is definitely a spark and drive missing without Buddy. The one guy who kick serious ass on those cd's is Marvin "Smitty" Smith - Wow!

Anyway, that's my take.

[TOMANO]

Originally Posted by indra zzz

who know buddy rich heroes of drumming??

First off, thank you for that phrase. It's my new mantra.

From a couple of other angles regarding Buddy Rich:

I have listened to a lot of Big Band music and few, if any, SMOKE the way Buddy's did. (Figuratively, and possibly literally.) Buddy drove that band like a Ferrari and when they "updated" their sound to incorporate rock tunes, the results were unbelievable.

Also, I must say that like Puccini's left hand (pretty sure it was the left..y'know the one with the finger), Buddy's left hand had a life of its own. Adding counter-rythmns inside of the down beats was unheard of at that time.

I agree that like Duke Ellington, Miles Davis, Jimi Hendrix, Mike Tomano, Igor Stravinsky and others...Buddy broke the mold and set a new standard that few can match, and even less surpass.

TOMANO

[Drummer Karl]

I think Buddy is great!! He has influenced my view on snare drum soloing and makes me want to work on my finger control and rudiments...thank you buddy!! He is so legendary and he was a great person!

Karl

[Wegadrummer]

one word : legend..

there is really nothing more to say..

[King Crimson]

My mother and step-father saw him a few times out west.

I never had the pleasure.

As a big Peart fan, I have read that he thinks Buddy hung the moon.

Thats good enough for me.

[Matt Walker]

I'm a huge Buddy Rich fan, I'm curious though..If you know about Buddy Rich, would you know about Adam Shendal too?

I feel Buddy Rich was a fantastic rudimental drummer, I think that he isn't the only one who's a legend though, more legends are to come I'm sure. Not many can do the stuff Buddy did, or play at his level though, the stuff that goes through his head while he was playing must have been insane.

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

Ok... we all know that it's NOT all about speed... but, anyway, regarding the speed, who could possibly match Buddy's to this day? I can't think of anyone... maybe Chambers, sometimes I can hear ultra fast single-hand strokes from him... Mr. Donati is another one who comes to mind.. not sure though. Any names? (certainly NOT Sr. Jojo Mayer... he's fast and very creative in the show-section, also a single bass hard-hitter and fast and stuff but... as fast as Buddy and Chambers when it comes to the HANDS??? I've never seen that happening!.. please someone, show me a video that could possibly prove it...?).

Thanx.

[Pocketman]

It's amazing that so many other topics have been brought from just mentioning Buddy. Here are my two cents:

Buddy - Best Drumset player EVER!!!!!! He was a complete original and the ultimate virtuoso on his instrument. Plus, if you watch his many video clips, I think he actually got better as he got older. His technique in his later years is absolutely perfect!! Louis Bellson said that there would probably be nobody better technically than him. Now I know that guys like Vinnie and Virgil have raised the bar in many ways but COME ON!! I can't think of a cooler drum solo than Buddy on "West Side" or anything else for that matter. His playing will be analyzed and (more importantly) enjoyed forever!

It's great that drummers like Travis and Joey are influencing younger guys to get better. That's the only way we can keep this great thing called "drumming" going in the United States. But for me, Buddy is still at the top.

[Clark]

Buddy was NOT at his best on the 1970 clip. Of course he was great, but he was better
on the later clips. Buddy kept improving. Look how Buddy applies his speed later.

[DogBreath]

Originally Posted by Pocketman

It's great that drummers like Travis and Joey are influencing younger guys to get better. That's the only way we can keep this great thing called "drumming" going in the United States.

I've heard that people have started playing drums in other countries, too.

[onemat]

There's a video floating around of Buddy playing with the Boston Pops which appeared on PBS. In a version of "Westside Story Medley",
there is this place where Buddy is soloing very lightly on the snare and starts to get louder... he launches into "I Feel Pretty" on the snare. He's doing those incredible single strokes and his accents are beating out dah-dah-da, dah-dah-da, dah-dah-da-dump--da-da-dump-da-dah, etc. which was the meter of the lyric:
I feel pretty,
Oh, so pretty,
I feel pretty and witty and bright!
And I pity
Any girl who isn't me tonight.

I thought it was very musical thing to do in the middle of the solo.

Matt