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  #81  
Old 09-16-2005, 09:02 AM
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Default Re: Buddy Rich Stick Click Trick?

watch creativ control (thomas lang) he explains it very good..
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  #82  
Old 09-28-2005, 01:27 AM
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Default Re: Buddy Rich Stick Click Trick?

VERY EASY TRICK! lol, you have to practice doing beats on a weird angle...Hit one stick back and forth...pm me for number and I can do it over the phone I guess...lol
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  #83  
Old 09-28-2005, 05:58 AM
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Default Re: Buddy Rich Stick Click Trick?

GO TO http://www.vicfirth.com/artists/queen.html
then go to the bottom of that page and look for walking the dog/stick on stick
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  #84  
Old 10-05-2005, 03:03 AM
kernond kernond is offline
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Default Re: The Buddy Rich trick

I believe I may be able to help you understand the mechanics of that technique so, here goes...

First, the most important aspect of this technique is the upstroke. Without a strong and fast upstroke you can forget it. You can sort of do it using only your fingers but, you will only be able to play it at a low volume and, you won't have the ability to move the stick to other parts of your kit because you simply won't have the lift that's created by a strong upstroke.

Secondly, timing is extremely important! Every component of the technique has to fall at a very specific point in time. To master this technique you will have to practice slowly at first. You can't just flail the stick around and expect it to eventually just happen.

Let's look at the components and where they have to fall on a rhythmic timeline. Think of the timeline as a one-beat measure of sixteenth-notes counted as "1 e and a".

Note: these instructions are for the matched grip.

Component A is the downstroke (occurs at "1"):
Starting from a STICK UP position, let the stick FALL to the drumhead naturally. Do not push the stick downward. If you do, you will have a very hard time achieving an even sound between the notes. There is no real effort required to do this...let it fall. (You may want to practice this component without sticks by holding your hand in the STICK UP position while maintaining light pressure at the fulcrum. If you are relaxed, you'll notice that the fingers are naturally close to your palms. Now relax the muscles that are holding your wrist up and let the hand fall naturally. Remember to maintain the fulcrum and don't drop your entire forearm. Only your hand should drop, turning at the wrist. I cannot emphasize enough that there is no real effort in this movement. Also note that, IF YOU ARE RELAXED, the wrist will naturally rise a little.)

Component B is the finger-stroke (occurs at "and"):
Okay, the first note has been played and the stick is rebounding. Play the second note using your FINGERS ONLY. There should be no other movements or efforts made. The wrist is at rest and your forearm muscles are relaxed, waiting to explode during the next Component. This relaxed state is extremely important because any tension will stifle the next (and most important) Component. I'm sure by now you realize that we've simply performed a basic Double Stroke. That's all this technique is...a series of Double Strokes. The catch is that you have to remove the time gap between the Doubles. Otherwise, your just playing a shuffle pattern. There is only one thing that can remove this time gap...Upstroke to the Rescue!

Component C is the all-important Upstroke (occurs at "a"):
This is the key to performing this technique and this is where all of the actual work is done. This is where you will make your strongest muscle contraction using the muscles located further up the forearm. The wrist is a hinge. There are muscles around your wrist but, they are used to control the trajectory that the turning wrist will follow. The real workhorse muscles are located up the forearm near the elbow. Think of the hinges on a door. You wouldn't go to open a door by pulling on the hinges would you? Of course not, you would apply force to the opposite end (the door knob) because there is better leverage meaning, less work to achieve the same or greater results. This is important to understand because, when you perform your upstroke, if you focus on pulling up from the wrist area, you will cause tension and that's a good way to go nowhere fast. Having said that, when you perform the upstroke, do it with a strong SNAPPING movement that returns the stick to the UP position. It must be quick and with good form. If you are relaxed and using the correct muscles, the wrist will naturally drop a little.

NOW, those are the components of this technique. Let's zoom out a little to get a bigger picture of what's going on. Looking at where each component falls on our rhythmic timeline, we see that the count is:

"1 - and a"

Extending this to a 4-beat measure we get:

"1 - and a 2 - and a 3 - and a 4 - and a"

That is the timing needed when PRACTICING this technique. Obviously, when playing at faster tempos you don't want to be so mechanical about things. However, at this stage you will have to be this mechanical until it becomes embedded in your mind what happens and when it should happen, rhythmically speaking.


A good exercise to help with the timing of the upstroke is:
Play the technique as described in one hand. In the other hand, play the last sixteenth-note of each beat. There will be hand-to-hand action between the two hands at that last note of each beat because the upstroke in the one hand should happen at the same time as the downstroke in the other hand. This will help you focus on the proper timing of the upstroke. However, as you get faster with this technique, you will probably abandon this exercise because its purpose will have been exhausted. Use this to simply help you with the timing.


Anyway, I hope this helps someone. It's solid information and it is precisely how I learned the technique. Good Luck!

Last edited by kernond; 10-05-2005 at 03:17 AM.
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  #85  
Old 10-05-2005, 03:15 AM
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Default Re: The Buddy Rich trick

Watch Buddy's tapes carefully. His 'trick' was that his method for sticking actually came from an 'eggbeater' type movement of both wrists....this is what enabled him to get such blinding speed.

If you allow the stick to rebound off the head with the finger technique AND incorporate a circular or 'rolling' motion to the tip, controlled from the wrist, so that the stick is actually moving off the head in a circular motion as opposed to an up and down one, your speed increases dramatically.

In some cases when he's really going 'all out' it almost appears as though he's slashing into the head with a sabre type motion, this is in fact a motion that comes from the accented strokes within the eggbeater whisking movement.

Try it.
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  #86  
Old 10-05-2005, 06:08 AM
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Default Re: The Buddy Rich trick

I stumbled across this technique myself a couple of years back and it was just natural for me. I now have it up to great speeds, faster than controlling rebound strictly from fingers which is where most people have their fastest speed. The most important thing is to get it smooth, relaxed, and keep an opened grip (that space between index and thumb is important). Also, I play matched so I can't help with the traditional equivalent of the technique.
But I do have my single stroke roll down with this technique quite well, when I last checked I could do over 1000 strokes in a minute (i timed a minute at 100 bpm of quintuplets times 2 with the other hand filling between the spaces, i don't know what that division would be called). WFD drummer material in a year's practice haha. yeah right!

I'm gonna be working on it more of course because I'm still nowhere near JoJo or Buddy Rich with the technique.
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  #87  
Old 10-05-2005, 08:23 PM
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Default Re: The Buddy Rich trick

I almost don't know which thread to post this to (because we have several on this subject), but I've just discovered a DVD with SEVERAL real good looks at the master himself doing this with his left hand (traditional grip) on the hi-hat.

You will see it on the Hudson Music release Live at the 1982 Montreal Jazz Festival. There are a couple other spots where you can see him do it on the snare, but if you watch song 5, West Side Story Medley, the first drum solo break (which is really a cymbal solo), you can see it clearly from 2 angles.

I'm not currently a traditional grip player so I haven't even dared try it, but I bet if some long time trad. grip players saw this video it would make real good sense and may even clear the mystery up.

FWIW, this DVD is exceptional. The band is top notch and tight, and even once almost seem to be caught off-guard (in amazement) coming back in after after one of Buddy's unbelievable solo breaks. (in fact it is later in the same tune referenced above). I haven't been able to stop watching this DVD since I got it 2 weeks ago.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

Cheers again to Bernhard, Jason, DogBreath and everyone that contributes for making this forum such a great resource!

--Joe
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  #88  
Old 10-05-2005, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: The Buddy Rich trick

Dave Weckl demonstrates this technique as well.

http://www.drummerworld.com/Clinic/D...kl_single.html
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  #89  
Old 10-05-2005, 09:20 PM
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Default Re: The Buddy Rich trick

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourstringdrums
Dave Weckl demonstrates this technique as well.

http://www.drummerworld.com/Clinic/D...kl_single.html

I think Weckl does it well but for me, he adds that twist with his right wrist that I see as a waste of motion. The one other thing is how on the second note he relies on the bounce a little bit more, making a slight differenece in volume. I still think he does it great, but just those are things I would suggest looking out for. Minimalizing effort and motion to only the necessary.
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  #90  
Old 10-08-2005, 10:22 AM
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Default Buddy Rich

20 twenty characters 20

Last edited by Mykill; 01-11-2008 at 12:16 AM.
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  #91  
Old 10-08-2005, 10:34 AM
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Default Re: Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mykill
ALWAYS, even to this day, amazes me. That is who came up with the "spinning" drum set that most think tommy lee came up with. No Spliknot did not come up with it either. It was Buddy Rich. Do some research if you don't believe me.
Already been discussed. Use the search function if you don't believe me.
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  #92  
Old 10-08-2005, 03:59 PM
Elvin4ever Elvin4ever is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinshells
I remember Buddy saying that he hated rock drummers in general "They are animals" and he challanged Ginger Baker of Creem to a drum battle anywhere, any time.
My uncle played with Rich on four different tours in the late sixties, so I got to see him a lot when I was young. Uncle Billy was fired seven different times by Rich, and rehired seven times. On two of those ocassions he was fired and rehired on the same night. There was never any true reason for it. He could get mad about anything. My uncle says that on some of those firings, had he moved over six inches to the left, the guy directly behind him would have been fired instead.

Initially Rich was tough on the rock guys, but eventually softened his stance, and voiced public respect for Bobby Columby of Blood Sweat and Tears and Danny Seraphine of Chicago. He also developed an amused tolerance for Bonham. When (as a fearful 12 year old) I asked him if he thought Bonham was any good. He didn't say a word. All he did was shoot me a terrible look followed by 10 seconds of a dead on Moby Dick, without Bonham's edginess, but with immaculate technique. That moment has stuck with me my entire life.

The Ginger Baker story has morphed into several unique versions over the years, when it was actually his reaction to hearing that Baker had challenged ELVIN JONES. This resulted in one of the best Rich quotes ever.

"That guy challenging Elvin Jones is like a paraplegic challenging Arnold Palmer to a round of golf."

Much of the current opinion of Rich rests entirely in these stories instead of the insurmountable technical and yes, INNOVATIVE talent he demonstrated night after night for over 60 years. When I hear people praise Rich with qualifiers (Yeah he was good at this, but Jordison, Colaiuta etc beats him at this other thing) I am amazed. I thought his untouchable legacy would always remain intact. But time has a way of changing things, and I guess Rich is no exception.
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  #93  
Old 10-08-2005, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: Buddy Rich

20 twenty characters 20

Last edited by Mykill; 01-11-2008 at 12:15 AM. Reason: No smilies
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  #94  
Old 10-09-2005, 07:31 AM
LiquidSoul546 LiquidSoul546 is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by jammaster
it's a bit wrong... he DID practice!! I read it from an interview with Joe Morello

can't find that link now :/
I heard that BR never practiced with his band even, in fact he would hire a drummer to practice with the band while he walked around and listened to the band, then he performed the show. But I may be wrong.
peace
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  #95  
Old 10-09-2005, 07:53 AM
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Default Re: Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mykill
I am sorry for not memorizing EVERY POST on this board before daring to say anything.
Friend, I don't expect anyone to memorize every post. I just thought it was funny that you were telling people to "do some research," and yet you hadn't used the search function here before starting a new thread on a subject that already had a thread that spans multiple pages.

Also, No Smilies. If you don't believe me you can do a search for the rule.
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  #96  
Old 10-09-2005, 10:03 AM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

20 twenty characters 20

Last edited by Mykill; 01-11-2008 at 12:15 AM.
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  #97  
Old 10-09-2005, 07:58 PM
Elvin4ever Elvin4ever is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSoul546
I heard that BR never practiced with his band even, in fact he would hire a drummer to practice with the band while he walked around and listened to the band, then he performed the show. But I may be wrong.
peace
This is true. The rehearsal drummer doubled as Rich's drum set up guy. So he always travelled with the band, even if Rich had no rehearsals scheduled. A lot of great up and coming drummers killed for that gig. One of the best was a guy named Dave Alpert, who teaches high school band down somewhere in the southern U.S. and plays just great.
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  #98  
Old 10-10-2005, 12:52 PM
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Default Re: The Buddy Rich trick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin
I can do the Gladstone technique in both matched and traditional grip. It makes for incredibly fast double strokes!
How does the Gladstone work in trad grip?
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  #99  
Old 10-11-2005, 03:03 AM
Zildjian232 Zildjian232 is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvin4ever
When (as a fearful 12 year old) I asked him if he thought Bonham was any good. He didn't say a word. All he did was shoot me a terrible look followed by 10 seconds of a dead on Moby Dick, without Bonham's edginess, but with immaculate technique. That moment has stuck with me my entire life.
what do you mean 10 secound of dead on moby dick and that whole thing about bonhams edginess/ immaculate technique
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  #100  
Old 10-11-2005, 03:30 AM
Elvin4ever Elvin4ever is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zildjian232
what do you mean 10 secound of dead on moby dick and that whole thing about bonhams edginess/ immaculate technique
I think intensity would probably have been a better word than edginess. No one was dissing Bonham here. I was just fascinated that Rich could within about a second start knocking off large chucks of Bonham, although in the Buddy Rich style. I was flabergasted that he had listened enough to do it at all period. To me it only meant that Rich was at the very least very interested in him.
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  #101  
Old 10-11-2005, 06:54 PM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

honestly, i cant believe any of this.

to say that buddy rich could not be a great rock player, or latin player, or any player is RIDICULOUS.

i hate to be the one to have to say it, but the majority of rock playing does not demand a great deal of technical facility. the beauty of rock playing, is more in the composition, the way elements work together, etc. bonham, was obviously brilliant in this respect. so is peart, moon, <insert your favourite>

but at the very bottom of the issue is the simple fact that none of this is THAT complicated. you can preach groove all you want and say senseless things that apply only to someone listening strictly to the drums on a track, like "wow the way he displaced a 128th really blew me away" but you cant argue with the fact that..

chops = talent

maybe he didnt practice rock music, and maybe he wasnt the nicest guy. but it is clear to anyone with ears, that buddy rich was more then capable, had enough chops, enough brains to play pretty much anything <inesrt your favourite> did.

play a buddy rich track, and anything else that isnt by some late 90's technical monster, to a non-drummer and see who they think is better.

for instance, i could say portnoy is better then donati for the notes he doesnt play. or he grooves better, or some other overused drum forum lingo. unfortunately, that just wouldn't be true. donati could obviously pound out anything portnoy could play and about 100 times more. and if he doesnt play with restraint, its because he has the talent to do it without sounding stupid. its a cold hard fact of nature.

if you can't agree with it, your giving whichever 70's superstar you prefer too much credit. end of story
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  #102  
Old 10-11-2005, 08:55 PM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

This argument is really getting a little ridiculous. Buddy's designed techniques are being used today by modern day drummers. It doesn't matter if he layed down a rock groove or not. So much of what we do can be transposed into different roots of music. So he didn't play double bass drums, it doesn't matter. Just look at what today's players are doing and go back and see if Rich was the originator. Give credit where credit is due!

Kruppa is not mentioned by todays crowd, because he was either dead (1973) and not publicized as Rich was or was retired ( prior to 1967). Rich had the advancement of TV and talk shows etc., of which Kruppa did not. Most people you ask today probably were after the Beatles, YardBirds, etc, or were not exposed to big band music by their parents.

As far as Rich not using his third tom or second floor tom, better go revist his solos again. Go check out the Drummerworld stick trick solo under Buddy's video's.
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  #103  
Old 10-12-2005, 04:18 AM
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Default Re: The Buddy Rich trick

this is classic though

can it be done with the matched grip?
can someone please explain?
i'm dying to know
make a video for us
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  #104  
Old 10-12-2005, 07:10 PM
Clark Clark is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Elvin4ever,

That Buddy Rich and John Bonham story is very interesting. Buddy and Zeppelin
actually played on the same bill once! According to Jason, John's son,
John met Buddy at the show. Elaborate more on Buddy's view of Bonham if you can.
I give you total credit for asking Buddy that question. That was probably the best question Buddy was ever asked.

By the way, Cathy (Buddy's daughter) took Buddy to see Zeppelin in 1973.
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  #105  
Old 10-12-2005, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark
Elvin4ever,

That Buddy Rich and John Bonham story is very interesting. Buddy and Zeppelin
actually played on the same bill once! According to Jason, John's son,
John met Buddy at the show. Elaborate more on Buddy's view of Bonham if you can.
I give you total credit for asking Buddy that question. That was probably the best question Buddy was ever asked.

By the way, Cathy (Buddy's daughter) took Buddy to see Zeppelin in 1973.
Do you know which show?
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  #106  
Old 10-12-2005, 08:21 PM
indra zzz
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

who know buddy rich heroes of drumming??
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  #107  
Old 10-12-2005, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by indra zzz
who know buddy rich heroes of drumming??
I know he loved Chick Webb in his earliest days of playing in Big Bands. Later he hung out with Krupa and Barrett Deems.
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  #108  
Old 10-12-2005, 11:58 PM
Elvin4ever Elvin4ever is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark
Elvin4ever,

That Buddy Rich and John Bonham story is very interesting. Buddy and Zeppelin
actually played on the same bill once! According to Jason, John's son,
John met Buddy at the show. Elaborate more on Buddy's view of Bonham if you can.
I give you total credit for asking Buddy that question. That was probably the best question Buddy was ever asked.

By the way, Cathy (Buddy's daughter) took Buddy to see Zeppelin in 1973.
Rich was always interested in anyone who was getting attention. But, as one poster already mentioned, Bonham the individual was nowhere near as famous then as he is now.
Yes, Led Zeppelin was a big deal in the 1970s. But in that era the considered headliner virtuoso of that band was Jimmy Page, although Bonham's underground clique was every bit as fervent then as now. Yes, Bonham had his followers. But again I agree with other posts. We thought guys like Carmine Appice were much bigger deals when it came to name recognition.

Bottom line, Rich was irritated if you spoke of any other drummer besides him. He wanted to mention the other guy. But he was aware of Bonham as early as 1970.

With that said, I agree with several others here. Rich could do anything he wanted on the drums, and could play anything that came to his mind, or your mind for that matter.

Look, I really believe too many of our younger colleagues are overly dependant on videos of Rich when making determinations of his greatness. I have never saw a Rich video (including At the Top) that even came close to what he actually sounded like either live or on those rather amazing Pacific Jazz releases, or even his 1939 recordings with Artie Shaw, or his early 1960s work with Harry James.

On the other hand, I also heard Zeppelin several times in the 1970s, and can say with confidence that the Zeppelin DVD going around (that seems to be owned by every 14 to 20 year old drummer on the planet right now) was just about the best I ever heard Bonham in any situation. With these parameters as a yardstick, I suspect it is harder for younger well intentioned and talented drummers to have a higher opinion of Bonham at the expense of the Rich legacy.

Buddy Rich kicked butt for 60 years. You cant make snap judgements about him. His legacy is beyond that.
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  #109  
Old 10-13-2005, 12:56 AM
Clark Clark is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

John looked up to Buddy and I've heard John play jazz during an interlude when
Page broke a string. Obviously Zeppelin's music wasn't suited for that kind of drumming
so John played in the most suitable style for the band. He took the Carmine thing and and added his own flair to it.

Buddy and John played on the same bill at Newport Jazz Festival in 1969.

Buddy saw John at Madison Square Garden in 1973.
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  #110  
Old 10-13-2005, 02:32 AM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark
John looked up to Buddy and I've heard John play jazz during an interlude when
Page broke a string. Obviously Zeppelin's music wasn't suited for that kind of drumming
so John played in the most suitable style for the band. He took the Carmine thing and and added his own flair to it.

Buddy and John played on the same bill at Newport Jazz Festival in 1969.

Buddy saw John at Madison Square Garden in 1973.
I'm guessing it was the last night? 1973.07.29?
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  #111  
Old 10-14-2005, 11:55 AM
Crazy Crazy is offline
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Default Re: The Buddy Rich trick

Hi Guys,

Thanks for that small vid' of Knudston, true things get clearer, but anyone have a video on that trick with the traditional grip ?
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  #112  
Old 10-15-2005, 07:06 PM
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Raymond Bloom Raymond Bloom is offline
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Default Re: The Buddy Rich trick

I have one video with push-pull technique using trad grip, I will edit and upload that soon! ;)
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  #113  
Old 10-15-2005, 08:12 PM
kjsm
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Default Re: The Buddy Rich trick

please would you upload your video jammaster
and also find some way of getting to us your jojo mayer solo video, the one in your signature

this putfile thing or whatever you are using will not work for me at all and i really want to see this and the buddy rich stick trick. can i no download it? that's what everyone needs, a download.
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  #114  
Old 10-16-2005, 03:18 PM
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Default Re: The Buddy Rich trick

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjsm
please would you upload your video jammaster
and also find some way of getting to us your jojo mayer solo video, the one in your signature

this putfile thing or whatever you are using will not work for me at all and i really want to see this and the buddy rich stick trick. can i no download it? that's what everyone needs, a download.
The push-pull video is not mine it is an online lesson by a drummer whose name I sadly can't remember right now :(
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  #115  
Old 10-21-2005, 05:59 PM
Crazy Crazy is offline
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Default Re: The Buddy Rich trick

HI Jammaster,

Do you think you could get that trad grip push and pull vid' jojo explains it well but he goes too fast
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  #116  
Old 10-22-2005, 11:13 PM
Lof Lof is offline
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Default Re: The Buddy Rich trick

Colin, excellent post on the Gladstone technique. That video is great at quickly explaining the open-close technique.

Lof
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  #117  
Old 10-22-2005, 11:22 PM
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giantantreal giantantreal is offline
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Default Re: The Buddy Rich trick

Quote:
Originally Posted by kernond
I believe I may be able to help you understand the mechanics of that technique so, here goes...

First, the most important aspect of this technique is the upstroke. Without a strong and fast upstroke you can forget it. You can sort of do it using only your fingers but, you will only be able to play it at a low volume and, you won't have the ability to move the stick to other parts of your kit because you simply won't have the lift that's created by a strong upstroke.

Secondly, timing is extremely important! Every component of the technique has to fall at a very specific point in time. To master this technique you will have to practice slowly at first. You can't just flail the stick around and expect it to eventually just happen.

Let's look at the components and where they have to fall on a rhythmic timeline. Think of the timeline as a one-beat measure of sixteenth-notes counted as "1 e and a".

Note: these instructions are for the matched grip.

Component A is the downstroke (occurs at "1"):
Starting from a STICK UP position, let the stick FALL to the drumhead naturally. Do not push the stick downward. If you do, you will have a very hard time achieving an even sound between the notes. There is no real effort required to do this...let it fall. (You may want to practice this component without sticks by holding your hand in the STICK UP position while maintaining light pressure at the fulcrum. If you are relaxed, you'll notice that the fingers are naturally close to your palms. Now relax the muscles that are holding your wrist up and let the hand fall naturally. Remember to maintain the fulcrum and don't drop your entire forearm. Only your hand should drop, turning at the wrist. I cannot emphasize enough that there is no real effort in this movement. Also note that, IF YOU ARE RELAXED, the wrist will naturally rise a little.)

Component B is the finger-stroke (occurs at "and"):
Okay, the first note has been played and the stick is rebounding. Play the second note using your FINGERS ONLY. There should be no other movements or efforts made. The wrist is at rest and your forearm muscles are relaxed, waiting to explode during the next Component. This relaxed state is extremely important because any tension will stifle the next (and most important) Component. I'm sure by now you realize that we've simply performed a basic Double Stroke. That's all this technique is...a series of Double Strokes. The catch is that you have to remove the time gap between the Doubles. Otherwise, your just playing a shuffle pattern. There is only one thing that can remove this time gap...Upstroke to the Rescue!

Component C is the all-important Upstroke (occurs at "a"):
This is the key to performing this technique and this is where all of the actual work is done. This is where you will make your strongest muscle contraction using the muscles located further up the forearm. The wrist is a hinge. There are muscles around your wrist but, they are used to control the trajectory that the turning wrist will follow. The real workhorse muscles are located up the forearm near the elbow. Think of the hinges on a door. You wouldn't go to open a door by pulling on the hinges would you? Of course not, you would apply force to the opposite end (the door knob) because there is better leverage meaning, less work to achieve the same or greater results. This is important to understand because, when you perform your upstroke, if you focus on pulling up from the wrist area, you will cause tension and that's a good way to go nowhere fast. Having said that, when you perform the upstroke, do it with a strong SNAPPING movement that returns the stick to the UP position. It must be quick and with good form. If you are relaxed and using the correct muscles, the wrist will naturally drop a little.

NOW, those are the components of this technique. Let's zoom out a little to get a bigger picture of what's going on. Looking at where each component falls on our rhythmic timeline, we see that the count is:

"1 - and a"

Extending this to a 4-beat measure we get:

"1 - and a 2 - and a 3 - and a 4 - and a"

That is the timing needed when PRACTICING this technique. Obviously, when playing at faster tempos you don't want to be so mechanical about things. However, at this stage you will have to be this mechanical until it becomes embedded in your mind what happens and when it should happen, rhythmically speaking.


A good exercise to help with the timing of the upstroke is:
Play the technique as described in one hand. In the other hand, play the last sixteenth-note of each beat. There will be hand-to-hand action between the two hands at that last note of each beat because the upstroke in the one hand should happen at the same time as the downstroke in the other hand. This will help you focus on the proper timing of the upstroke. However, as you get faster with this technique, you will probably abandon this exercise because its purpose will have been exhausted. Use this to simply help you with the timing.


Anyway, I hope this helps someone. It's solid information and it is precisely how I learned the technique. Good Luck!
Bah? *head explodes from too much information*
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  #118  
Old 10-24-2005, 03:03 AM
kernond kernond is offline
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Default Re: The Buddy Rich trick

Hmm...you didn't really expect something like this to be learned in one sitting (or reading) did you? Take it one step at a time. If you don't have very good basic technique then you shouldn't even be thinking about something like this. If you are ready for something like this then give it a good month of practice before you just throw your hands up and walk away from it.

I can't imagine the steps being too much more simplified without leaving out important details. I basically tried to do a brain-dump on the issue. Maybe it will be of use to someone willing to learn something new.

:)
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  #119  
Old 10-31-2005, 12:37 AM
Lambo Lambo is offline
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Default Buddy Rich dvds?

Thinkin I'm gonna pick one up. Anyone got a recommendation?
Also, anyone know if there is any footage around the net of Buddy away from the kit ie an interview?
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  #120  
Old 10-31-2005, 05:45 AM
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somedrummer somedrummer is offline
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Default Re: Buddy Rich dvds?

I hope to get every DVD with Buddy at some point.
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