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  #521  
Old 11-24-2007, 06:16 AM
PeartWeckler PeartWeckler is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

My first drumset was a kit that Buddy did a clinic on back in '74. But I didn't go to the clinic, and all I have is my brothers word, because it was he who went to the clinic, and it was he who owned the drums before he gave them to me when I was 14. It was a blue sparkle Ludwig 5 piece. They were traded for an ugly Slingerland kit that some guy swindled me into buying, because he was a pro player, and something about the kit on stage threw me.

Anyway, it's hearsay but it's close enough for me. Heck, at least I was aware of Buddy at an early age.

Steph
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  #522  
Old 11-27-2007, 03:42 PM
michael drums
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Again....


People in glass houses...


'Cause, apparently, it wasn't understood the 1st time...


Uhhhh....


Thanks.
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  #523  
Old 12-04-2007, 08:33 AM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

I've just launched a Podcast series for drummers, and it contains some great insight into the careers of both Buddy Rich and Stan Getz. Episode #01 includes interviews with Cathy Rich, (Buddy Rich's daughter) Bev Getz, (Stan Getz's daughter) and an exclusive interview with Donny Osborne. (named as Buddy Rich's protege when he was 14, and at age 17, hired by Mel Torme, where he remained for 25 years.)

You can download it (free of course) at http://www.mikejamesjazz.com/podcast_index.html

The total time of the Podcast is 1 hour, 35 minutes, so be warned... It is a LARGE file. (95 MB for the QuickTime version and 85 Mb for the (iPod) "m4v" version. But, there are so many great stories on it, I think it's worth the wait for the download. (or if you prefer to watch the QuickTime version in your browser, it's set up for streaming.)

Enjoy, everybody!

PS> Guys, don't waste your time listening to, or thinking about these stupid "bus tapes". What Buddy gave us is nearly 70 years of great music and great drumming. Anything else that went on behind the scenes is irrelevant, at best.
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  #524  
Old 12-04-2007, 01:28 PM
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Jon Cable Jon Cable is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Not sure about that Mike; part of Buddys appeal to me was the whole persona, the rants against Dusty Springfield/Osmonds/Country music, and his intolerance for people who wouldn't try to do their best!! OK, so his interpersonal skills may have needed work BUT he was right, he didn't need them. If ya work somewhere and don't pull your weight then you get chewed out, and that what Buddy was doing...AS WELL AS giving 70 years of awesome music from the greatest drummer to ever draw breath!!!
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  #525  
Old 12-04-2007, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Jon,

I couldn't agree more. Those of us who grew up listening to and watching Buddy have an "understanding" of the whole person. My comment was really intended for people who are new to Buddy, and "write him off" because they heard a specific (negative) story.

I love and miss him, for a variety of reasons. Whatever else is said, he absolutely was one of a kind.
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  #526  
Old 12-04-2007, 04:52 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

"drums keep pounding rhythm to the brain
ladi-dadi dee....ladi dadi daa! "


kinda says it all...............!
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  #527  
Old 12-04-2007, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Cable View Post
Not sure about that Mike; part of Buddys appeal to me was the whole persona, the rants against Dusty Springfield/Osmonds/Country music, and his intolerance for people who wouldn't try to do their best!! OK, so his interpersonal skills may have needed work BUT he was right, he didn't need them. If ya work somewhere and don't pull your weight then you get chewed out, and that what Buddy was doing...AS WELL AS giving 70 years of awesome music from the greatest drummer to ever draw breath!!!
Jon...once again you're right on target! I couldn't of said it any better.

Buddy was Buddy. He "earned" what he got, and where he was. Period. I don't think anyone has ever implied the BR was the "greatest interpersonal communicator to have ever drawn breath".

No one is/was perfect. And I guarantee you, BR didn't think he was either. He was just one of the hardest workers in the business, and he expected nothing less from those around him. His confidence confused people. AND still does.

"Let he who has not sinned...cast the first stone".


Play On! ;-)
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  #528  
Old 12-13-2007, 10:13 PM
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Ian Ballard Ian Ballard is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

I turned the radio on to the jazz station the other night. I heard this nice, tasteful solo; perfectly executed, beautifully groovin' and utterly virtuous. No crazy chops, no wild rolls or fills.

I was certain it was Buddy due to the drum sound, but I'd never heard this solo before. Sure enough, the band kicked in and it became obvious.

I've been listening to this guy since I was tiny and he still never ceases to amaze me.
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  #529  
Old 12-16-2007, 01:02 PM
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tak22thegoat tak22thegoat is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
"drums keep pounding rhythm to the brain
ladi-dadi dee....ladi dadi daa! "


kinda says it all...............!
I have that song! Who is singing that song? And is it the BR Big Band?
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  #530  
Old 12-16-2007, 01:35 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

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Originally Posted by tak22thegoat View Post
I have that song! Who is singing that song? And is it the BR Big Band?
Yes it is. Dont know about the singer. I have a funny feeling it was his daughter...
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  #531  
Old 12-17-2007, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

It's his daughter - Cathy.
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  #532  
Old 02-19-2008, 04:38 AM
mosher mosher is offline
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Default Buddy Rich

No contest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwJAAlXomVk
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  #533  
Old 02-19-2008, 04:44 AM
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Default Re: Buddy Rich

Have to agree with you on that video
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  #534  
Old 02-19-2008, 05:03 AM
GetAgrippa GetAgrippa is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Buddy Rich inspired a generation of drummers. I remember watching him on the tube throughout the sixties as I grew up (Johnny Carson loved Buddy!). His left hand was just a monster of control and speed, and he continued great drumming till his death. I was surprised with his interest in the martial arts as I always heard he was somewhat superstitious and concerned about injuring his hands. Probably an urban legend. He probably wacked bricks in half with that left hand. What a legacy with the Buddy Rich Band!!
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  #535  
Old 02-26-2008, 10:47 AM
richcapo richcapo is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

If anyone is interested, I posted a bunch of half speed Buddy Rich solos on YouTube. Follow this link to watch and discuss:

www.youtube.com/richcapo

Watching these videos at half speed reveals some things that might shock you, especially with respect to his speed. A good way to gauge Buddy's higher speeds is to watch closely his hi-hat workout in this video www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kGqppouPvs. The workout runs at 2:07-3:11 and 4:23-5:07. Here, his right hand carries long strings of notes, while his left adds accents here and there on the underside of the hats. At half speed, the right hand sounds like it's playing eighths at 210. When his left hand hand alternates with his right, rather than add accents, as it does to make three and four note figures around 2:39-2:42, 3:09-3:11 and 4:43-4:44, the notes played between both hands sound like 16ths. Believe it or not, at full speed, that makes for a speed of 14 notes per second in Buddy's right hand, and a speed of 28 notes per second between both his hands, which is far faster than I have ever heard any drummer play. (Now, whether Buddy could have sustained that speed for a full minute, a la the World's Fastest Drummer competition, is unknown, of course).

The techniques used during the hi-hat workout are applied from 6:22 to 6:45 on the crash cymbal in the above video. Again, Buddy's right hand plays long strings of what appear as eighth notes at 210, while adding left hand accents on the underside of the cymbal. These accents typical appear at this speed as quarter notes and notes of greater value. At full speed, then, the right hand is push-pulling at a speed of approximately 14 notes per second.

(You can also see Buddy achieve that speed in this video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5k-8iGXjPs at minute 6:15 to 6:35.)

The half speed videos also show Buddy as being able to cruise for long, long periods of time in the 10 or so notes per hand per second range of speed, as he does in this video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RAOTOaBgtA. From :08 to around 1:30 in this video, Buddy's left hand is playing at a speed of around 10 notes per second, from what I can tell. If you measure these notes against a metronome, you'll see that they synch with eighth notes at 150 beats per minute at the half speed pace of the video. At full speed, these are 16th notes, of course, which make for approximately 10 notes per second in his single hand.

Lots more cool stuff in these half speed videos. Check em out, if you like.

_richcapo

Last edited by richcapo; 03-01-2008 at 04:24 AM.
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  #536  
Old 02-26-2008, 02:33 PM
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Smashin Jack Smashin Jack is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Here's my 2-cent Buddy story: I had seen Buddy in various Modern Drummer articles and ads, also the classic Ludwig posters at all the music stores when I first started playing. I knew he was an icon but really didn't know why. Here I was studying Neil Peart and John Bonham thinking "who's this old dude they call buddy?" Well, I got a cold smack in the face one fine winter day in early 1984 at my high school. Buddy came there and my mom bought several front row seats for the show. So, the band started playing some tunes, then buddy did a solo and I was like "wow, this guy is great!". Then, the band took an intermission, they played a few more tunes, then what I was about to witness would change the way I look at drumming and age forever. Biddy went into another solo. This was the REAL solo, though. That cat did the most amazing solo I've ever seen in my life. He made the fastest rock drummers look like they were in slow motion. His agility and awe-inspiring technique was almost unearthly. I couldn't shake his hand. The guy wasn't human. I loved the way he used creativity to create more sonic possibilities rather than adding more toms and cymbals like so many others. I still to this day have not seen a recorded buddy rich solo I perceive to be as incredible as the one I saw with my own two eyes that night. Maybe it was just my mind playing tricks on me, but I don't care. It was the single best drumming performance in my mind, and it's my favorite musical memory which I'll never forget. That guy was old as dirt, ragged-out looking as could be, and I couldn't for the life of me understand how he could move so fast, in a sweaty blurr of drumsticks. Hope some of you who didn't see buddy in person enjoyed my story...
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  #537  
Old 04-01-2008, 01:24 AM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

I never cared much for Buddy Rich, Although I respect him for what he did for drumming, I could never listen to him solo, To me, it seems like all his solos are just him doing rudiments very fast, then slowing down, and playing them fast again all while doing stick tricks and show-man stuff like that. It's extremely hard, but I don't find it that interesting. I much prefer the more lyrical solos of Tony Williams or Joe Morello. Their solo's could sing! He was also kind of an A-hole, but thats not relevent to his drumming.
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  #538  
Old 04-01-2008, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Your Surname certainly fits anyway Mr Insane.
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  #539  
Old 04-01-2008, 10:32 PM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

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Originally Posted by Mook View Post
Your Surname certainly fits anyway Mr Insane.
don't get me wrong man, I just think Buddy Rich is an overrated drummer.
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  #540  
Old 04-02-2008, 07:17 AM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

No. Buddy Rich is NOT overrated....

Bernhard
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  #541  
Old 04-02-2008, 07:29 AM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Gene Krupa, Buddy Rich, and Chick Webb, Jo Jones are the people responsible for bringing the drums up front, and giving them the kind of respect enjoy today. These people are also somewhat responsible for a lot of what we play on the drums today, because they defined the instrument.

It also must be said that great drummers are torch bearers, in that they take the legacy from someone & hand it to over to someonene else.

You could like or dislike Buddy's music but under no circumstances could you say Buddy was overrated.

Last edited by aydee; 04-02-2008 at 07:40 AM.
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  #542  
Old 04-02-2008, 07:50 AM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

I'll take listening to Tony or Elvin over Buddy in the soloing department any day of the week which is based on a different musical jazz style and different jazz concepts towards the instrument that perks my ears much more. Just a personal preference thing. Having said that I have tremendous admired respect for what he acomplished for drums and on the drums. My memories of seeing him live were of his incredible ability to setup figures and drive the heck out of a band and basically sound amazing where it's most important to me in the context of the music as a group player which really shined and stood out to me in a Big Band setting. Certainly not overated regardless of personal taste and preferences since he was a true master of his craft and certainly one of the greats if not the greatest of the Big Band drummers that's ever graced our planet IMO.
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  #543  
Old 04-02-2008, 09:33 PM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

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Originally Posted by Bernhard View Post
No. Buddy Rich is NOT overrated....

Bernhard
I think he is,I think that he is not (as he is claimed to be) the best drummer who ever lived, IMO, Billy Cobham, Elvin Jones, Steve Gadd, Tony Williams, Joe Morello, and Vinnie Colaiuta all SMOKE Buddy Rich.
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  #544  
Old 04-03-2008, 12:52 AM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

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Originally Posted by Citizen Insane View Post
I think he is,I think that he is not (as he is claimed to be) the best drummer who ever lived, IMO, Billy Cobham, Elvin Jones, Steve Gadd, Tony Williams, Joe Morello, and Vinnie Colaiuta all SMOKE Buddy Rich.
I once read where a forum drummer who I respect as a musician, tried to make the case that Buddy Rich was something you outgrew when you got older and more experienced. Of course he was self righteous about a number of things, his precious opinions being but one.

In fairness to your rant, Buddy Rich currently suffers from a fanboy base every bit as fanatical as Bonham's or Travis Barker's. And in trying to talk to them, a person would assume that Rich grew angels wings when he died and merely ascended to heaven. I was once even flamed on the Rich website for having the gall to believe that Rich had been the greatest drummer who ever lived for only 7 years of his illustrious career. And here I was trying Rich covers on the Internet. To say to them that Buddy Rich was anything less than a savior incarnate is considered blasephmy. I also think their total blindness hurts Rich now more than it helps.

Also to your credit you mention the names of great drummers alongside Rich. Personally I like three of those guys better than Rich myself. OK if you're not on the Rich bandwagon, people can at least say, Alright there's something to what he's saying, and at the very least he's not bringing up Jordison, Bitner etc.

But man you screw up when you use a phrase like SMOKE to describe what these other guys would do. SMOKE indicates losing challenges at the most, and the most extreme disrespect at the very least. In both cases neither apply, and demonstrate that you haven't studied Rich enough to know what you're talking about. And don't talk to me about some Johnny Carson show on youtube, or a video of West Side Story #2 vs. West Side Story #76 blah, blah. Have you heard for example all the Pacific Jazz releases and the first 3 RCAs, and I'm not talking about watered down compilations? Frankly man, I was already a little suspicious of where your argument was going when I saw that you typed in that old All he plays on the snare is rudiments argument. If you believe that you might want to go back and listen.

Have you really compared the difference between drummers in those old Tommy Dorsey and Artie Shaw bands, and how they changed when Rich guided them? You seen that Harry James stuff in the mid 60s? I would be willing to bet anything that you haven't, or you wouldn't say something like you just said. See I think it's way too easy to compare the greatness of the other guys you mention to Rich when Rich had to answer to at least a half dozen sylistic periods of music just to stay relevant. This is the pitfall of a 65 year career, back when all of music changed an average of every 8-10 years. Nowadays you can get away with playing the same way for most of your career, all talk of drum evolution aside. This is especially true of American jazz that has changed very little in almost 30 years.

Most important, none of the drummers you mentioned would or would have repeated what you just said because they would have found it an uneducated stance. In fact every one of those guys are on record as idolizing Rich to the point of bowing down. Even Billy Cobham said as much even after Rich had ripped him in public. And if we're gonna take away points for being an A hole in the music business, then Rich is in a very long and pretty fancy line.

So where does that put your opinion, other than your having the right to say whatever you like regardless of the facts?

Just like the Rich is the only God of Drums claim, the devaluing of Buddy Rich as a spiritual center of drumming is just revisionist history, and slamming him is just guys trying to sound cool. And if you think you have to outgrow him enough to flat out dislike him as a player, then I say too bad for you.
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  #545  
Old 04-03-2008, 01:10 AM
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Citizen Insane Citizen Insane is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

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Originally Posted by mattsmith View Post
I once read where a forum drummer who I respect as a musician, tried to make the case that Buddy Rich was something you outgrew when you got older and more experienced. Of course he was self righteous about a number of things, his precious opinions being but one.

In fairness to your rant, Buddy Rich currently suffers from a fanboy base every bit as fanatical as Bonham's or Travis Barker's. And in trying to talk to them, a person would assume that Rich grew angels wings when he died and merely ascended to heaven. I was once even flamed on the Rich website for having the gall to believe that Rich had been the greatest drummer who ever lived for only 7 years of his illustrious career. And here I was trying Rich covers on the Internet. To say to them that Buddy Rich was anything less than a savior incarnate is considered blasephmy. I also think their total blindness hurts Rich now more than it helps.

Also to your credit you mention the names of great drummers alongside Rich. Personally I like three of those guys better than Rich myself. OK if you're not on the Rich bandwagon, people can at least say, Alright there's something to what he's saying, and at the very least he's not bringing up Jordison, Bitner etc.

But man you screw up when you use a phrase like SMOKE to describe what these other guys would do. SMOKE indicates losing challenges at the most, and the most extreme disrespect at the very least. In both cases neither apply, and demonstrate that you haven't studied Rich enough to know what you're talking about. And don't talk to me about some Johnny Carson show on youtube, or a video of West Side Story #2 vs. West Side Story #76 blah, blah. Have you heard for example all the Pacific Jazz releases and the first 3 RCAs, and I'm not talking about watered down compilations? Frankly man, I was already a little suspicious of where your argument was going when I saw that you typed in that old All he plays on the snare is rudiments argument. If you believe that you might want to go back and listen.

Have you really compared the difference between drummers in those old Tommy Dorsey and Artie Shaw bands, and how they changed when Rich guided them? You seen that Harry James stuff in the mid 60s? I would be willing to bet anything that you haven't, or you wouldn't say something like you just said. See I think it's way too easy to compare the greatness of the other guys you mention to Rich when Rich had to answer to at least a half dozen sylistic periods of music just to stay relevant. This is the pitfall of a 65 year career, back when all of music changed an average of every 8-10 years. Nowadays you can get away with playing the same way for most of your career, all talk of drum evolution aside. This is especially true of American jazz that has changed very little in almost 30 years.

Most important, none of the drummers you mentioned would or would have repeated what you just said because they would have found it an uneducated stance. In fact every one of those guys are on record as idolizing Rich to the point of bowing down. Even Billy Cobham said as much even after Rich had ripped him in public. And if we're gonna take away points for being an A hole in the music business, then Rich is in a very long and pretty fancy line.

So where does that put your opinion, other than your having the right to say whatever you like regardless of the facts?

Just like the [Rich is the only God of Drums/ claim, the devaluing of Buddy Rich as a spiritual center of drumming is just revisionist history, and slamming him is just guys trying to sound cool. And if you think you have to outgrow him enough to flat out dislike him as a player, then I say too bad for you.
I admit that "smoke" was not a good term, I respect buddy rich, and he has influenced a lot of my favorite drummers. but I simply do not care much for what I've heard of his drumming. My teacher and I watched a video called "The Lost West Side Story Tapes", It was pretty cool. But it didn't blow me away like some of Joe Morello's solos did.I have yet to see something by Buddy Rich that really impresses me. It gets rather tiring having people tell you, that a drummer that you have yet to be impressed by is the "The Greatest Drummer of All time".

I also said that Buddy Rich being an A hole was irrelevant to his drumming, My favorite drummer is Stewart Copeland. But he also seems like an A-hole, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying his drumming. I just have yet to see something I like from Buddy Rich.

What music/videos would you suggest to get me into Buddy Rich?

[edit] Im also not "slamming" Buddy Rich, nor am I trying to look cool, Im not saying things like "He really sucks"or "All his music is terrible" .Im just saying I don't see the hype with him.
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Last edited by Citizen Insane; 04-03-2008 at 02:24 AM.
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  #546  
Old 04-03-2008, 02:38 AM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

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Originally Posted by aydee View Post
Gene Krupa, Buddy Rich, and Chick Webb, Jo Jones are the people responsible for bringing the drums up front, and giving them the kind of respect enjoy today. These people are also somewhat responsible for a lot of what we play on the drums today, because they defined the instrument.

It also must be said that great drummers are torch bearers, in that they take the legacy from someone & hand it to over to someonene else.

You could like or dislike Buddy's music but under no circumstances could you say Buddy was overrated.
Well whenever I watch a performance of a another great jazz drummer on youtube, theirs always guys who post comments such as "Not as good as Buddy", or "This guy has nothing on Buddy Rich." And I have to say it on my nerves after awhile.
Buddy Rich has such a rabid, and irritating fanbase.

I correct myself,Buddy Rich is NOT overrated overall, but Buddy Rich is overrated among his rabid fanbase.
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  #547  
Old 04-03-2008, 04:27 AM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

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[edit] Im also not "slamming" Buddy Rich, nor am I trying to look cool, Im not saying things like "He really sucks"or "All his music is terrible" .Im just saying I don't see the hype with him.
Yeah man, I get that. I was in my argument trying to show both sides of the spectrum, including fanboys and flamers, and how there is very little straight down the middle objectivity about Rich. When you used the word SMOKE, it just kinda opened a door to initiate that discussion. Thanks also for clarifying.

As to stuff you might like, I prefer his Pacific Jazz output from 1966-71. The New One is often overlooked and terrific, and there is much to enjoy from Mercy, Mercy. In the early days, his output from the Artie Shaw band is pretty great for the time, and I have heard some very good combo music from his days with Jazz at the Philharmonic.

When looking for videos I tend to look for his British TV shows. For some reason he always went above and beyond on those things. I don't know why his TV stuff was always better in the UK, but to me it was.

This stuff from the early 70s is very strong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds-m8...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ma96...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rm-A6bGhiE

Still, all the old timers will tell you that they have seen little on a video that captured the live thing or his best audio, and I tend to believe that, although he was also before my time.
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:39 AM
Derek Derek is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

I was fortunate to catch Buddy live a couple of times and both of them up close in a small setting ( no more than literally several feet from Buddy each time ).
Yeah Matt, it's true, nothing on video does justice to what it was like to see him play in person.
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Old 04-03-2008, 05:41 AM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

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Originally Posted by Citizen Insane View Post
don't get me wrong man, I just think Buddy Rich is an overrated drummer.
Huh??

Buddy Rich overrated???


That's it!! It's over!!


NOW...I've heard everything!!


Dude...you ARE insane!! :-|

Or just not of this earth!! :-(


Wow!
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Old 04-03-2008, 05:46 AM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

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Well whenever I watch a performance of a another great jazz drummer on youtube, theirs always guys who post comments such as "Not as good as Buddy", or "This guy has nothing on Buddy Rich." And I have to say it on my nerves after awhile.
Buddy Rich has such a rabid, and irritating fanbase.

I correct myself,Buddy Rich is NOT overrated overall, but Buddy Rich is overrated among his rabid fanbase.

Uhh...

The words Buddy Rich and overrated can NOT possibly be used in the same sentence...unless...the word NOT is inserted right before the word overrated.

I'm guessing you're under 30 years of age, and probably not even ever heard of Bernard "Buddy" Rich? :-|

Right??

Though the answer to your confusion is right in your name.

Last edited by michael drums; 04-09-2008 at 06:50 PM. Reason: adding to it.
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  #551  
Old 04-03-2008, 11:34 AM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Hopefully this thread in not moving into that "lets utter some blasphemies and provoke the 'faithful' into convulsions of righteous outrage. "Lets knock a big guy and see if it gets people's knickers in a twist", territory.

Just to clarify, Tony Williams is my all time favorite drummer, and Elvin's genius is something I've always marveled at and he's way up there brushing Tony's shoulder on my mantle too.
But I'll be the first to admit, that great as they were, neither of these two guys had the same power as Buddy (for the lack of a better word) to attract "anyone & everyone", the guy- on -the- street to the magic of the drums.

Buddy's playing is also limited in people's minds by his grandstanding solos. You think Buddy , you think drum solo. People forget his all his incredible work with Dorsey, Sinatra, Artie Shaw, Benny Carter, and a whole lot of his sessions, when they talk about his playing.

On the A hole business, no one likes em, but I secretly admire his utter refusal to accept mediocrity. It is the unfortunate side-effect of being a hardcore uncompromising perfectionist who pushed his band often to breaking point ( broke a few horn players in the process too)

So, love him or hate him, appreciate him/or not, or whatever placard you think you need to hang around his neck, he was a defining chapter in the history of drumming, and took it to a whole new level, whether his solos were boring or not or just a bunch of real fast rudiments or whatever..

Walk up to a guy on a street corner and ask him if he's heard of Elvin or Tony? then ask him if he's heard of Buddy Rich.

...and Buddy wasn't a pop star by any stretch of imagination, he wasn't even a Louis Armstrong, or an Ella, or a Frank Sinatra... He was just a drummer.

At best, one can say that this drummer did move the mountain, but I for one, wasn't impressed.

Thats no more than saying what I'm saying. That I prefer listening to Tony more, man, but he didn't do what Buddy did.

nuff said.

Last edited by aydee; 04-29-2008 at 10:25 AM.
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  #552  
Old 04-04-2008, 03:27 AM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

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Uhh...

The words Buddy Rich and overrated can NOT possibly be used in the same sentence...unless...the word NOT is inserted right before the word overrated.

I'm guessing your under 30 years of age, and probably not even ever heard of Bernard "Buddy" Rich? :-|

Right??

Though the answer to your confusion is right in your name.
What would it matter if I was over 30 years of age? OH YEAH! I forgot that only people that are 30 and older can give an opinion of Buddy Rich. And don't insult me saying that I never heard of Buddy Rich, thats very condescending and annoying. This thread isn't called "Lets All agree with each other that Buddy Rich is the best drummer who ever lived". All because I don't share your opinion on Buddy Rich, doesn't give you the right to be a little smartass with me. And why do you think its such a blasphemy that I think Buddy Rich is overrated? When there is a thread about such a large, and honored figure in the history of drumming. Your bound to get mixed opinions. Oh, and thank you for informing me with your wisdom about Buddy Rich, I had no idea his first name was Bernard. ^°^
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Old 04-04-2008, 03:39 AM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

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Originally Posted by michael drums View Post
Huh??

Buddy Rich overrated???


That's it!! It's over!!


NOW...I've heard everything!!


Dude...you ARE insane!! :-|

Or just not of this earth!! :-(


Wow!
Well man you got to admit that calling Buddy Rich "Versatile" as I heard some Buddy Fans say is kind of overrating him, he was reasonable versatile in the realm of Jazz, but put him in a latin, or heavy metal gig and he would sound quiet awkward. In comparison to Vinnie Colaiuta who would be excellent in all of those situations And I think saying "Buddy Rich could have played any genre he wanted to" is a very weak excuse for his lack of versatality.
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Old 04-04-2008, 03:51 AM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Let me put this discussion into a different light and angle on things so to speak, Put yourself in the shoes of the man in question and count the Buddy Rich Band into "Time Being" as one of any number of excellent Big Band charts and vehicles played and made famous by this master of drumming and in particular "Big Band drumming".Now as you only have a few seconds at this point to prepare yourself for the challenge ahead of you see how you could see YOURSELF fairing and measuring up on delivering the solid goods at the high level Buddy played at in the context of the music and his high level of soloing in front of a packed house. I think that would quickly put everything is perspective and will still see if some here think he was overated. Get my point:)

By the way I saw Buddy several times live and it was always a thrilling exciting sonic display of 5 star drumming and razor sharp Big Band ensemble playing without any debate on the subject in my book.
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Old 04-04-2008, 04:00 AM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

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Well man you got to admit that calling Buddy Rich "Versatile" as I heard some Buddy Fans say is kind of overrating him, he was reasonable versatile in the realm of Jazz, but put him in a latin, or heavy metal gig and he would sound quiet awkward. In comparison to Vinnie Colaiuta who would be excellent in all of those situations And I think saying "Buddy Rich could have played any genre he wanted to" is a very weak excuse for his lack of versatality.
Doesn't matter he perfected his craft as a Big Band drummer like very few before or after have done so that's all that matters to me in this debate. Put some of your favorites in a Big Band playing that music and at the level Buddy played it at in a Big Band and imagine how they would fair in that situation. Big Band is a very tough and specific chair for a drummer to deliver with authentic conviction. Dig:).
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Old 04-04-2008, 04:41 AM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

I havent read the entire thread so i dont know if this has been posted yet.

Supposedly, this >> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=w6yekXsbUfc is Buddy Rich's last taped show in 1987. He not only plays a fantastic show, but he also sings, yes he sings!
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  #557  
Old 04-04-2008, 06:40 AM
Gretschman1 Gretschman1 is offline
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

I too am a great fan of Buddy Rich. I played in Jazz band in college and was able to play a couple of his great swing tunes. Someone has said that he not only is the greatest drummer who ever lived but he mastered his instrument to a level that no musician of any kind could claim the same degree of proficiency. After listening to his solos and music for the last 35 years of my life I would not disagree.
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  #558  
Old 04-04-2008, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Wow I just sat down and read this entire thread and I have to say its a good one. To me what made Buddy great wasnt his solos or technique which BTW are amazing. In my eyes what was best about him was the way he drove the band. The guy was a machine.

Some drummers are like pied pipers, they play their little magical tune on the drums and get the band to follow them. Guys like Buddy and Bonham go up punch the the band in the face and say "your coming with me" You can tell the moment the song kicks off they are in charge.

I got to see Buddy right about the time I started playing a few years before he died. My Dad took me to see him and I had heard of him but had know idea what I was in for. Being about 10 or 11 years old in my eyes Jazz was a lesser form of music than the Ozzy and Maiden I was listening to at the time. I remember I didnt really want to go, I though it would be boring. Big Band music was for old farts my Dad just said "trust me kid, you will love it".

When the band came out and Buddy kicked off that first tune my jaw hit the floor. It was so loud and so powerful I didnt know jazz could be so intense. And Buddy being in his late 60's looked like a mad man possesed by some evil drumming demon. What struck me most about that night was not his drum solo but the way commanded the band. He was the force behind the music. That was the single most important event in my drumming life. It was at that moment my persona was born. Not with the chops, or technique. But that attitude that makes every person in that band know that once the song starts I'm in charge.

In my eyes Buddy is the best
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  #559  
Old 04-04-2008, 11:30 PM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Sorry you missed the amazing experience of witnessing him live in concert with his band at his prime {glad I did!} and obviously my point of putting yourself in his musical shoes to put it all into proper perspective. I'm done with wasting any more on this discussion. Keep listening and hope you "get it" down the road. Later...
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  #560  
Old 04-07-2008, 07:01 AM
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Default Re: The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Let's just say that if Buddy Rich didn't exist, you wouldn't hear alot of the things you hear on drums today. He did alot for this group of musicians
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