Some recording help!

[cymbalrush]

my first post so go easy!

I am recording drums in jan and am looking to do about 6 tracks with the same sort of drum sound on each one. I was looking to get the drum sound like the one one jeff buckleys album "grace" - i love the clarity of the high end and the warmth of the kick and toms.

the gear I have access to is:

samson 5 kit (Qkick, Qsnare, 3x Qtom)
shure sm57 + shure sm58
Rode nt1-a
2 x AKG c1000s

now im aware the high end of the akgs is terrible and ive had bad experience with them so what would you recommend me do?

my layout is

snare, high tom, floor tom, kick drum, ride, hi hats, splash and ride (the hi hats and splash are close to each other) I am also contemplating putting up my other a custom crash above the ride. Also, i am considering buying the AKG d112 for the kick but not sure what to do about overheads, whether or not to just use the Rode to cover all the cymbals and then the 2 c1000s as a stereo pair about 6 foot away from the kit or to use the rode above the hi hats and crash and splash and use the c1000 on the ride? or would it make sense to use the c1000s on the toms? I could splash out on another rode or some pencil mics but if its not essential id rather not!

thanks :)

[Bo Eder]

I'll go easy: the mics are just the first phase of the making the sound process. It also depends on where they're placed, and what you're plugging them into. All that high-end pro audio circuitry makes a big difference in a real recording studio. And then you're drums will have to be close in approximation to what you want as well. Re-phrase?

[cymbalrush]

I appreciate that! I am using a Focusrite Saffire LE 8 track thingy (gutted I can't use my universities Soundcraft Ghost 32 Track). I will obviously try my best in the post recording process but in terms of capturing the sound of the drums what would you recommend?

is it worth getting the AKG d112 over the Samson Q-kick?
the c1000s, what pair can I get for about £150-£250 that will sound much better?
would you use the Q-Tom or the AKG c1000s on the high tom and low tom (would you consider using the Qkick if I got the D112 on the floor tom?)

just trying to get the right setup!

[Bo Eder]

The D112 will do a way better job than the Samson. The AKG C1000s are great mics too. I've not had any experience with the Samsons you're talking about.

My particular set-up is all Shure SM58s and 57's, with a couple of nice AKG pencil condensers (one on the hat and one overhead) and I got great results with those (used those for my YouTube vids). Like I said, a good mic pre will make any mic sound good. I had an Audix D6 that sounded wonderful on my floor tom, but not so great in the bass drum - it all depends. You can't believe the marketing until you try it.

If I had my druthers, my mic cabinet would have an ElectroVoice RE20 for the bass drums, Senheisser 421's for the toms, Shure Beta 57s for the snares, AKG 414s for overheads and AKG SE300's for hats. With a few Neumann U87's thrown in for good measure!

[ricc333]

Originally Posted by Bo Eder

If I had my druthers, my mic cabinet would have an ElectroVoice RE20 for the bass drums, Senheisser 421's for the toms, Shure Beta 57s for the snares, AKG 414s for overheads and AKG SE300's for hats. With a few Neumann U87's thrown in for good measure!

Hahaha, I think most all of us would. Just let me know when you get em and I'll be over to borrow a couple of those paltry leftover U87's.

Anyways, back to Cymbalrush's issue. First off, I'd try to talk you out of idealizing a drum sound from another album. Not because that was done by pros with pro gear in a nice studio, but because there's so many variables. I don't know how many people I've seen pull their hair out because they're after so-and-so's guitar sound or whatever, while in the process ignoring that they have a good sound....just not so-and-so's sound. Just work on getting a good sound period.

Now if you're really not happy with your kick sound, I'd spring for the D112. On the other hand, if you hate your overhead mics, I'd sell your AKG's, and maybe trade up to something like the R0de NT5's. I just suggested those because I have them and like them. They're not the best mics, but I'd go on record saying they're the best for the money. I think between those two is the decision you want to make if you're sure something with your mics has to change.

Once that's settled, a lot will matter on where you're recording and all that. If I had the mics you have right now, I would use the AKG's in an XY or spaced pair right over top of your drums (messing with the height and approach angle with the drums until it balances out and all that), your Samson mics on the toms and kick, SM57 on top of the snare, and the SM58 on the bottom of the snare (phase inverted, of course).

That right there is your basic drum mic setup. Nothing fancy. And really, that's not a bad setup at all. I'm not going to get into mic placement and all that because this would be a LOOOONG post. Now unless you're recording somewhere that's already been treated properly for sound, I'm guessing you don't have the thousands of dollars it costs to do that. Don't feel bad. I don't either. Just short of that, you really have to take what the drums and the room are giving you, and use what's good about it. The room I record my drums in has 0 sound treatment to it, but I love the sound I get. Lots of people from some of the recording forums I go to basically feel if you don't treat a room first it's worthless. Given the money I would, but I just don't agree.

Most of getting a good drum recording (or any recording) is more a matter of patience, preparation, listening, and working from there. There are LOADS of good resources online about recording in general, and recording drums in particular. There's even stuff out there about different overhead micing techniques, and even ways to record drums with just a couple of mics. The more you know, the more you and whoever is working with you will have to get a nice clear recording.

[audiotech]

Originally Posted by Bo Eder

If I had my druthers, my mic cabinet would have an ElectroVoice RE20 for the bass drums, Senheisser 421's for the toms, Shure Beta 57s for the snares, AKG 414s for overheads and AKG SE300's for hats. With a few Neumann U87's thrown in for good measure!

Funny, this is almost the exact configuration I use on my Yamahas. The RE20 is a given. The only differences is that I use 421s on my floor toms and SM57 on my rack toms. The AKG 414 mics are used as a space stereo pair in the cardioid pattern and are the epitome of overhead mics. For my hats I either use a 451, SM81 or an Audio Technica. My favorite snare mic is an Audix I5 or Beta 57. The room microphone is either my Neumann 87 or TLM 170 placed high and to the front of the kit in either the cardioid or bi-directional pattern. I'll have pictures up in the near future.

I never used Samson mics, but I do have some C1000s microphones which have a very nice top end. Mine are the older black models before they came out with the "hypercardioid adapter. The C1000s mics or some SM81s get used when on location.

Dennis

[cymbalrush]

thanks :) im going to use the samson Q kick cause its actually REALLY good and ive heard great things about it, apparently the price makes people assume its cheap quality. im going to use the sm57 and 58 on snare, Qtoms on the toms(duh) - and im buying a pair of rode nt-3s and using the nt1a as a room mic! that sound good?

[cymbalrush]

http://soundcloud.com/assassin231/shudder-drums-stem

what would you guys recommend me change - the hi hats or ride? im not going to tell you what they are cause they could be cheapo or the most expensive money could buy I dont want it to sway your judgement! im looking for nice crisp jazzy hihats and im not sure these deliver... the ride could be crisper too but im sure EQ could bring that out a bit more (these have been fully mixed)

what would you recommend if you were to change them?