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  #1  
Old 09-15-2010, 06:43 PM
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Default Getting a punch from vintage bass drum?

Hey, my vintage slingerland ( 3ply) currently has the normal slingerland reso, and an ambassador batter. But although I have heard that ambassadors are great for vintage shells, i can't get the punch i want, 18x14". Another problem is that I cant keep the beater on the head. I usually let it resonate, but not when I'm playing medium to fast doubles, and it sounds very....boingy when I leave in buried in. Very strange feeling, too much bounce off the drum. great for jazz, but not hip hop and the likes, would having a ported reso head fix that?. I was thinking of maybe a powerstroke 3, tuned low, might give me a nice punch with being able to bury the beater. Maybe if people have gotten a nice punch from these heads, they could advise on how to tune? Or it could be the beater. Thanks. Like in these videos...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DGZIiLPFZQ .....might have a lot to do with the recording though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZm3Gw9xwr0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMJtI...eature=related

Three of my favourite drummers there, all use coated heads, i think they all use ambassadors aswell though, maybe a powerstroke for stanton
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Old 09-16-2010, 03:46 AM
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Default Re: Getting a punch from vintage bass drum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky CrÍpe View Post
Hey, my vintage slingerland ( 3ply) currently has the normal slingerland reso, and an ambassador batter. But although I have heard that ambassadors are great for vintage shells, i can't get the punch i want, 18x14". Another problem is that I cant keep the beater on the head. I usually let it resonate, but not when I'm playing medium to fast doubles, and it sounds very....boingy when I leave in buried in. Very strange feeling, too much bounce off the drum. great for jazz, but not hip hop and the likes, would having a ported reso head fix that?. I was thinking of maybe a powerstroke 3, tuned low, might give me a nice punch with being able to bury the beater. Maybe if people have gotten a nice punch from these heads, they could advise on how to tune? Or it could be the beater. Thanks. Like in these videos...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DGZIiLPFZQ .....might have a lot to do with the recording though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZm3Gw9xwr0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMJtI...eature=related

Three of my favourite drummers there, all use coated heads, i think they all use ambassadors aswell though, maybe a powerstroke for stanton
As a reference point, according to MD Stanton's main kick is a 20x14 with a coated PS3 batter and a Fiberskyn Gretsch logo front head. Also according to MD, Benny Greb's using a clear PS3 batter on a 22x18" shell, & a custom ported front head. However, you shouldn't have to port the front head for more punch. Also if you do decide to port your front head and it happens that it is original to the kit, do not port that head. Buy another for this purpose. You will reduce your kit's resale value on the vintage market. Anyway, I have seen Stanton play a bunch, in most situations he does not port his front head. I'd ditch the Remo Ambassador batter and go with a PS3 batter or an Evans EMAD. Ambassador's are great for a certain sound, and they work well for jazz but they fall a bit short in the punchy full tone/bottom-end realm. A Fiberskyn Powerstroke front head will round out your sound and make your kit look even classier. Cheers
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  #3  
Old 09-16-2010, 08:23 AM
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Default Re: Getting a punch from vintage bass drum?

I had a 20x14 Yamaha kick, clear Powerstroke3 batter and ebony Powerstroke3 reso (no port) ... and that drum had "tons of punch" ... for a 20.
Powerstroke3's on both ends should take care of your "rebound" problem also, so a port would probably not be necessary. If it persists, (are you using a plastic beater?) switch to a felt beater ...
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:01 PM
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Default Re: Getting a punch from vintage bass drum?

Getting "punch" from a vintage bass drum should be easier than getting it from a modern, deeper shell, as shallower drums lend themselves more towards that kind of sound. As far as coated ambassadors go, they work GREAT as tom heads for getting that classic "vintage" sound, but not quite so much on the bass drum. I've gotten that boingy sound from bass drums as well, and it usually means that the heads are either too thin or tuned too high. If tuning (both the batter and resonant) lower doesn't work, the other solution would be to add a felt strip to the resonant head. If it's still too boingy for you, add one to the batter head as well. You can experiment with widths of felt and where on the head you put them. I tend to favor a 1.5" to 2" wide strip about a quarter of the diameter in from the side (one or both heads, depending on the sound I want).

You shouldn't ever have to cut a port hole to get a punchy sound from a drum, unless you want it to be REALLY dry.
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: Getting a punch from vintage bass drum?

Thanks guys, I have experimented with different tunings. It is close to having a deep punch, but it doesnt have it. it just has a "wobbley" sound to it, but when i tighten up the reso, it goes back to being boingy. I think I will invest in a coated ps3 batter, and leave the reso head unless i think I REALLY need it
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: Getting a punch from vintage bass drum?

I have a 1971 Slingerland kit. The bass is 22x14. I have tried a smooth white ambassador and did not like it. I tried the Aquarian SK2 too dead, I tried the EMAD single ply, not too bad and finally the clear PS3 and that did the trick. On the front I used a ported Aqurian and installed the Kickport, inside I use the Evans pillow with the pillow up against the batter about 4 to 6 inches. Reso head tuned a bit tighter than the batter. Batter tuned medium low.
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:59 PM
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Default Re: Getting a punch from vintage bass drum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky CrÍpe View Post
Hey, my vintage slingerland ( 3ply) currently has the normal slingerland reso, and an ambassador batter. But although I have heard that ambassadors are great for vintage shells, i can't get the punch i want, 18x14".
I think the problem is less about heads than the size of the drum. You're only going to get so much punch or oomph given that diameter & depth. You'll get a nice pop when mic'd, but acoustically, you're going to have a difficult time getting it to deliver what you want.

If you prefer the feel of the 18" head, you might seek a drum that's deeper to get more of the lower harmonics from it. Or move up to a 20 or 22", where the head will tune lower and the thump & punch are more inherent to the size.

But it may also help to know exactly what you're looking for... describe 'punch'. Do you mean it hits the listener in the chest, the stomach, or the intestines? Either way, the sound you seek is probably controlled as much by the sound system as the drum itself. But it really helps to start with a drum that can get close to those sounds in the first place.

Bermuda
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: Getting a punch from vintage bass drum?

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
I think the problem is less about heads than the size of the drum. You're only going to get so much punch or oomph given that diameter & depth. You'll get a nice pop when mic'd, but acoustically, you're going to have a difficult time getting it to deliver what you want.

If you prefer the feel of the 18" head, you might seek a drum that's deeper to get more of the lower harmonics from it. Or move up to a 20 or 22", where the head will tune lower and the thump & punch are more inherent to the size.

But it may also help to know exactly what you're looking for... describe 'punch'. Do you mean it hits the listener in the chest, the stomach, or the intestines? Either way, the sound you seek is probably controlled as much by the sound system as the drum itself. But it really helps to start with a drum that can get close to those sounds in the first place.

Bermuda
when i say punch, I don't mean being able to make a persons chestplate vibrate. Its not a loudness thing. Just the tone of the drum. And I have heard this sound coming from unmiced 18"'s, I'm sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cOhJ...eature=related
I think this video will give a good example of what I'm looking for. Its an 18" that isnt miced, has a nice thud to it, but its not resonating through your intestines! But I'm sure that a powerstroke 3 will do the job, I never really liked the feel of the ambassador head
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: Getting a punch from vintage bass drum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky CrÍpe View Post
when i say punch, I don't mean being able to make a persons chestplate vibrate. Its not a loudness thing. Just the tone of the drum. And I have heard this sound coming from unmiced 18"'s, I'm sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cOhJ...eature=related
I think this video will give a good example of what I'm looking for. Its an 18" that isnt miced, has a nice thud to it, but its not resonating through your intestines! But I'm sure that a powerstroke 3 will do the job, I never really liked the feel of the ambassador head
In that vid, you can clearly see his resonant head is a Fiberskyn. Those DEFINITELY cut down on the "boing" factor. I have one of those as the batter head on an old Ludwig 22x14 which makes it sound unreal. The punch factor is huge! I was assuming you wanted to stick with the ambassador.

A lot of the pleasant boomy sound is because of the unported reso head. You might do a quick internet search and see what he uses as a batter head and how he tensions his drums. That would perhaps get you close to HIS sound...
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  #10  
Old 09-16-2010, 09:24 PM
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Default Re: Getting a punch from vintage bass drum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky CrÍpe View Post
when i say punch, I don't mean being able to make a persons chestplate vibrate. Its not a loudness thing. Just the tone of the drum.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cOhJ...eature=related
Ah, okay, sort of a low pop and boom. I haven't used an 18" in over 20 years - it was an 18x18 - and I vaguely recall using a hydraulic (!) as the batter. I wouldn't recommend it for what you're looking for.

Bermuda
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  #11  
Old 09-16-2010, 11:43 PM
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Default Re: Getting a punch from vintage bass drum?

Thanks for the advice Bermuda, caddywumpus and co. I think I will experiment with different heads, but the problem is the cost! Running at around Ä45 a head for the bass. I think I'll try a ps3 for the batter, and then see how the sound is, maybe going for a fyberskin reso. At the end of the day, what I have isnt a "bad" sound, it will work for gigs and such. Its just that its good to find "that" sound as soon as possible!
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Old 09-17-2010, 02:53 PM
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Default Re: Getting a punch from vintage bass drum?

PS3s make excellent batters for smaller bass drums. (Large ones, too.) They take the "boing" out but leave lots of tone. You might try a coated PS3 for your batter head, too.

Note that PS3s do not sound their best at JAW tuning--put them a little above JAW, up to where they begin to have some bottom end and sustain.

A colleague of mine has two 18s, a Gretsch and a Yammie, both sound insanely good with PS3 batters and stock resos.
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Old 09-17-2010, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: Getting a punch from vintage bass drum?

^^^ Agree with most of the above suggestions. I use the PS3 on all bass drums these days including my 14x20 60's Ludwig kick. Great head - no internal muffling needed with those IMO. Just tune to taste and go.
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  #14  
Old 09-18-2010, 01:24 AM
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Default Re: Getting a punch from vintage bass drum?

I have to get quite a few things for my kit now! Sticks, headphones, cowbell clamp, cowbell, bass head. Along with stanton moore's new book, its about Ä200! Man, all the small things really add up, with the rotation of heads and sticks! But yeah, I'll definatly give the coated ps3 a looking at.
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