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  #1  
Old 08-17-2010, 07:21 AM
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Default DIE CAST HOOPS

How many of you guys and girls use die cast hoops on your snare drums? If you do why?

If you don't why?

Just wondering.
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  #2  
Old 08-17-2010, 07:30 AM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

My Gretsch fullrange is the only snare that I can leave wide open anytime. I think the diecast hoops dry it up just enough. Everything else seems to need the edge of a piece of moongel or a few inches of Richie Ring (I chop them up into sections of different lengths depending on how dry a sound I'm after) unless it's a really loud gig.
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Old 08-17-2010, 07:33 AM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

Only one Joe. My Pearl maple free floater has die cast hoops. I use them on this drum purely because they came as stock with it. I have another 5 snares that came with tripple flanged and I use them as is, for the same reasons.

I've always been happy with my snare sounds after a head change. I've done some limited experimentation with the die casts on the others, but I guess I've never thought the sound so much better that I've been compelled to make a permanent change. Perhaps this thread is the prompting I need to have another crack at it.
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Old 08-17-2010, 08:00 AM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

One of my snare has diecast hoops - I didnt choose it because of this, it just sounded good :-)
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Old 08-17-2010, 08:50 AM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

If a snare doesn't come with die cast, I change them to die cast. I definitely hear a difference, like it releases the drums potential more than a stamped. The 2.3 mm are a pretty good hoop too, but I like the die cast. Nothing tunes like a die cast, and what a great rimshot. I don't hear that much of a diff on toms, which makes no sense to me, but on the snare I do. Perhaps it's the tighter tuning.
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Old 08-17-2010, 08:57 AM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

Both of the snare I use regularly have them. The Select (Craviotto's old company) came with them; my 80's hammered bronze Ludwig came with some messed up hoops, so I swapped them for the DC Tama hoops on another drum. I don't actually care for them- they give kind of harsh sounding rim shots (though that's mitigated by using maple sticks). One of these days I'll get around to replacing them.
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:33 AM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

I have cast hoops on my brass FF too PFG. On that drum, they work very well. I do find that cast hoops dry up the sound a little, but give back in terms of rimshot clarity and accuracy of tuning. In straight engineering terms, they're much more stable than a pressed hoop, therefore deflection when tuning is near eradicated. Cast hoops also bring mass to the party. Increasing the mass of any assembly will reduce resonance. The degree will depend on how closely coupled the mass is to the element you want to resonate. So yes, lug design, & all the usual contributory factors come into play. All of this said, you can change the sound of your snare by simply tightening the snare stand basket against the bottom hoop (never do that, the drum should rest, it doesn't require clamping down).

As with everything else, it's a personal thing. As I tend to tune my batter head tighter than the reso (snare only), my ideal should be a cast top hoop, & stamped bottom hoop. That way, I get the best of the features offered by the different hoop constructions. I get accurate tuning at high tension, & crisp rimshots from the cast hoop, & a bit more sympathetic resonance from the stamped hoop.

BTW Larry, my old Sonor Phonic had cast hoops on the tom batters, & it made quite a big difference, especially on the 8" & 10" toms.
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:51 AM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Morris View Post
How many of you guys and girls use die cast hoops on your snare drums? If you do why?

If you don't why?

Just wondering.
I tend toward flange and even wood hoops because I get a breathier sound that way. I've left the die cast hoops on my old Round Badge kit, however, though I wonder sometimes if something more pliable might open them up some (no air vents makes them an interesting beast...) If I could afford it, I'd put Yamaha vintage hoops on many of my drums. Such a nice sound.
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Old 08-17-2010, 03:58 PM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

50/50 - my Starclassic has cast hoops, my Acrolite has triple flanged.

Those two drums are different in so many ways that I couldn't say how much the hoops are adding to it. At some point I'm gonna' swap the top hoops on the two drums to see how it sounds, but I haven't done it yet.
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Old 08-17-2010, 04:55 PM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

I'm with Larry on this one.

I use die-cast hoops on all my snares (except for my 10x6 popcorn). I would like to try an S-hoop(s) on a few of my snares but overall I prefer die-cast.

Solid rimshots, easier and stable tuning and a bit drier sound are the reasons I like them.

I have 16 ply maple hoops on my 14x5 maple snare and I get the same result as with die-casts.
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Old 08-17-2010, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

I used maple hoops for ab 2 years, and they definitely get the job done if you want to tone down a snare. I use diescasts now.

Can't believe I didn't get these sooner. Completely woke the drum up.
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  #12  
Old 08-17-2010, 05:53 PM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Morris View Post
How many of you guys and girls use die cast hoops on your snare drums? If you do why?

If you don't why?

Just wondering.
Cross-sticks are better, overall tone is drier and more articulate. Feel is also stiffer, which I like. I used to love the big, open, ringy sound, but now not so much. I have a 13 wood snare with wood hoops that I love, which sound drier than triple flange but warmer that die-cast. All my 14" snares have die-cast.

I think drum companies started to use triple-flange because they were cheaper. Maybe they've become part of a drum's sound over the years, but I still think they're just cheap. To me they're like stock machine heads in a nice guitar: functional, but any serious player will put in Grovers or Schallers as soon as they get the chance.
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  #13  
Old 08-17-2010, 07:25 PM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

Given most bands I've been in required laying down a solid 2 and 4, I much prefer die cast for the top of my snare. I like the little extra it gives on rim shots.
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  #14  
Old 08-18-2010, 01:35 AM
Russ Morse Russ Morse is offline
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

I used to have a Tama Artstar snare with die cast hoops.Loved the sound but BROKE alot
of sticks (mostly in half).Still perfer die cast though.
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  #15  
Old 08-18-2010, 05:55 AM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

Hmm. I tried die cast hoops on my 5" Ludwig Supraphonic and actually had the sound choke out because of the hoops. I had to go back to the triple flanged because the drum just didn't sing with the die cast hoops.

Because of this experiment, I'm not sure I'm with Larry about having to have die cast hoops on the snare. I'd have to experiment first.

I am considering putting die cast hoops on all of my Sonor Force 3007 drums - that snare especially wants to ring alot more than my aluminum Supra. I might get more of an old skool Gretsch vibe if I do that to my Sonors.
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  #16  
Old 08-18-2010, 06:08 AM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

Well it looks like we all pretty much agree about the die cast hoops on the snare drum. I love die cast hoops on my snare drums. Not all but most. I own over 30 snare drums. My favorite snares are TJS Custom snares made right here in Phoenix. I usually use a 4x13 with die cast . I have one 10 ply maple, 20 ply maple, and I have a 30 ply being made. The die cast really gives me a nice crack on my snare and eliminates any unwanted ringing. I do use the Pearl Omar Hakim Mohogeny snare too but I left the power hoops in came with on.

As far as putting die cast hoops on Toms. I HATE IT!!! Chokes the drums to much. I have used a few cartidge kits on the road with die cast hoops on the toms and I was not digging it at all. I believe Yamaha used a lighter metal than most companies. I think zink die cast are the norm but Yamaha used a different metal. I almost want to say they are aluminium die cast hoops. Please correct me im wrong.
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

My snare drum and toms have zinc die-cast hoops, it's more of a "controlled" sound than a wide open sound. Die-cast hoops are preffered on snare drums for a crisp stick-click sound...

...with the difference between triple-flanged and die-cast...

...what sound do wood hoops offer?
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:50 PM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

7 snares. 3 triple flanged, 3 diecast, 1 diecast on top triple flange on the bottom. It depends on the drum, but I do like them quite a bit. I play the diecast top/triple flanged bottom 14x8 snare i'd say a good 85% of the time.
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  #19  
Old 08-18-2010, 08:13 PM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

I ditched all my die-cast hoops and replaced them with lightweight triple flange. This opened the drum's resonance up and made playing rimshots consistently much easier, especially at lower volumes.
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Old 08-19-2010, 09:02 AM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
I am considering putting die cast hoops on all of my Sonor Force 3007 drums - that snare especially wants to ring alot more than my aluminum Supra. I might get more of an old skool Gretsch vibe if I do that to my Sonors.
Bo, I'd also consider wood hoops for your drums if you want that vibe, but with lots of lovely woody body & tone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Morris View Post
As far as putting die cast hoops on Toms. I HATE IT!!! Chokes the drums to much. I have used a few cartidge kits on the road with die cast hoops on the toms and I was not digging it at all.
Joe, in my limited experience, cast hoops work well on smaller toms. They seem to reduce some of the unwanted ringing overtones & allow more of the fundamental tone to show through. Also, I've noticed that cast hoops make a bigger difference to thinner shells than thicker ones. Can't really nail the reason why though.
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  #21  
Old 08-20-2010, 07:14 AM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Bo, I'd also consider wood hoops for your drums if you want that vibe, but with lots of lovely woody body & tone.

Joe, in my limited experience, cast hoops work well on smaller toms. They seem to reduce some of the unwanted ringing overtones & allow more of the fundamental tone to show through. Also, I've noticed that cast hoops make a bigger difference to thinner shells than thicker ones. Can't really nail the reason why though.
Funny because my toms run 8 10 14 16. The thing i hated about the die cast was mostly on the 8. I could not get the drum to tune low enough. It kept choking out, so i actually had the most trouble with the smaller toms.

on a side note: I tried putting wood hoops on my snare drums. It didn't work out at all. The hoops were uneven, the snare ridges on the bottom hoop didn't match up right. It was a nightmare so i never tried adding wood hoops again. I think drums that are made with wood hoops on them probably work much better. Adding wood hoops in my experience was not good at all.
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Old 08-20-2010, 08:37 AM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Morris View Post
Funny because my toms run 8 10 14 16. The thing i hated about the die cast was mostly on the 8. I could not get the drum to tune low enough. It kept choking out, so i actually had the most trouble with the smaller toms.

on a side note: I tried putting wood hoops on my snare drums. It didn't work out at all. The hoops were uneven, the snare ridges on the bottom hoop didn't match up right. It was a nightmare so i never tried adding wood hoops again. I think drums that are made with wood hoops on them probably work much better. Adding wood hoops in my experience was not good at all.
Thanks for that Joe, isn't it interesting how we all have different experiences, sometimes even polar opposite, but can't nail down the reasons why. I think there's so many variables, that coming up with definitive right or wrong opinions will never be possible. Throw the subjective & personal elements in the mix, & it seems we're all doomed to eternal experimentation. From my POV, I think that's a good thing, and an assurance of endless flavours & textures into the future. I never want to see a "McDonalds" drum kit!
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Old 08-28-2010, 07:34 PM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Thanks for that Joe, isn't it interesting how we all have different experiences, sometimes even polar opposite, but can't nail down the reasons why. I think there's so many variables, that coming up with definitive right or wrong opinions will never be possible. Throw the subjective & personal elements in the mix, & it seems we're all doomed to eternal experimentation. From my POV, I think that's a good thing, and an assurance of endless flavours & textures into the future. I never want to see a "McDonalds" drum kit!
I agree. I'm lovin it!
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Old 08-28-2010, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

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I agree. I'm lovin it!
Okay, that was kinda bad.

As far as I can tell from this thread:
  • Die-cast hoops tend to take away a certain amount of resonance
  • Triple Flanged, relative to Die-cast, allows more sustain or resonance
  • Wood hoops are something Joe will never again use on a snare drum

Is there a middle ground? I don't want infinite ring, but choking drums out isn't cool either. Where's the perfection, guys?
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Old 08-28-2010, 08:29 PM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

I use triple flange on top and die cast on the bottom of the snare. I feel that on the snare side, the diecast gives enough dryness and control to the 42 strand snares, yet on the batter side, the triple flange hoop gives added resonance and openness to the snare.

Most importantly, I have tried many combinations, triple flange top & bottom, die casts top & bottom and both vice versa, and the above is the best sounding combination!
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldhardsteel View Post
Okay, that was kinda bad.

As far as I can tell from this thread:
  • Die-cast hoops tend to take away a certain amount of resonance
  • Triple Flanged, relative to Die-cast, allows more sustain or resonance
  • Wood hoops are something Joe will never again use on a snare drum

Is there a middle ground? I don't want infinite ring, but choking drums out isn't cool either. Where's the perfection, guys?
Really the only other two options are S-hoops and single flanged stick choppers, also Precision Drum's hide-a-hoops.
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  #27  
Old 08-29-2010, 06:55 AM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

But what if you buy a kit that comes with die cast hoops, like Tama's Starclassic? Do you not get the Joe Morris seal of approval? ;)


I guess I'll have to tough it out with those Starclassic Bubingas then. Damn.
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  #28  
Old 08-29-2010, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

I use both cast and flanged.
My fav is the 2,3 mm Power Hoops that are on my Panther snare.
My least fav is my snare with thin flanged hoops.
My classic cast hoop snare is somewhere in the middle of the fav zone.

My reason, I get the best sounding rim shots, cross sticking, and overall sound with the 2.3.mm power hoops.
The Power Hoops don't dampen the drum as much as cast hoops do.
The Power Hoops cut just enough ring.
My modest Panther maple 5.5 x 13 snare is my favorite snare for overall sound.

I also agree with Joe about cast hoops on small 8" toms.
I think that all toms 12" or smaller sound better with flanged hoops.
I have sampled my Toms side by side with both hoop types.
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  #29  
Old 08-29-2010, 04:55 PM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

DW just came out with, in my opinion, the best of both worlds. It's basically a triple flange with the very top of the hoop folded over to give it added strength without the extra weight. I just can't remember what John Good called them. They came equipped on my DW Classic series kit. They sound great, but I haven't played them enough to give a very accurate evaluation. I'll try to get pictures up when I can.

Dennis
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  #30  
Old 09-03-2010, 02:32 AM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

Here are a couple of shots of the new DW hoops. Very much like triple flange, but the top edges are folded over.







Dennis
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  #31  
Old 09-03-2010, 03:20 AM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

I prefer TF.

I only have 1 drum with die cast and only because it came with it stock. didn't sound too bad with it so I just left it, might get switched up soon though.

I prefer more open sound of TF. lighter weight so better resonance, and I prefer the softer center feel.

I can understand DC hoops on toms for jazz though... drier sound, high tuning, DC hoops also seem to gives you that timpani echo effect in the high tuning ranges on toms.
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Old 09-03-2010, 06:41 AM
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Default Re: DIE CAST HOOPS

Interesting to hear everyone's experiences with these ,I would like to buy a whole set to mix and match with the kits I have,and to experiment with ones I may aquire,sometimes you just have to forget what the general consensus and marketers tell us and just throw them on and get busy with the drum key and see what happens.I had a set of die casts on my Eames 5/8 thick snare,and they pointed up the sound,and held tuning incredibly well,esp at the low and high end of the spectrum,but when I tuned high the feel got a little boardy,I like playing into the head more myself.I have played a gretsch amd sonor with die casts on the toms,the gretsch were tuned medium high and had a little give to them,and felt good,I can see why Jazzers like them,very articulate for fast figures.The Sonors were tuned Medium and the floor toms felt real strong and solid, with the resonance just controlled enough but still big sounding.I think success with die casts depends on the drum,the player and the sound/feel you are trying to achieve.
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