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  #1  
Old 04-05-2014, 05:36 PM
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Default First tuning - opinions please :)

This is my first tuning attempt with the new In-Tense kit (10", 10", 10", 16", 22" - 13" snare) in preparation for next week's video shoot. Recorded on a Zoom Q3 in a long empty room with all hard surfaces, so quite bright/harsh & with a lot of room reverb.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rg4...=youtu.be&hd=1


Please let me know what you think of the tuning!

I've gone for a fairly short head sustain to keep definition (reso head quite a bit higher than batter) bearing in mind the session is prog orientated. Of course, I'll retune to the room once I'm there.

Note roll of tape falling off the cymbal at the end. I used it to secure the Zoom to a cymbal stand & forgot about it :)
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Old 04-05-2014, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

I need to find my headphones. I want to hear this!
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Old 04-05-2014, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

I posted a comment on it. Basically, sounds terrific, but I'd like to hear each drum individually with more space/time in between each drum to process the sound :)
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Old 04-05-2014, 06:41 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
I need to find my headphones. I want to hear this!
Yes Ian, headphones essential.

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Originally Posted by Altair View Post
I posted a comment on it. Basically, sounds terrific, but I'd like to hear each drum individually with more space/time in between each drum to process the sound :)
Agreed. This is just a rough recording so I could hear the tuning basics, but thought I'd put it up - purely for opinions on tuning. When we track the video next week, we'll open with a set piece at different dynamics as you describe. As the official video audio capture is totally honest (no EQ, or any other enhancement), you'll get a really good idea of the drum's sounds.
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Old 04-05-2014, 08:18 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

I take it you'd forgotten that roll of tape was on the cymbal?!

Sounds great to me, but (probably a daft question) why the multiple 10" toms?*

Edit: OK, silly me. I've just seen the thread about the 10" toms of different depths. Doh!
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Old 04-05-2014, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Yes Ian, headphones essential.

Agreed. This is just a rough recording so I could hear the tuning basics, but thought I'd put it up - purely for opinions on tuning. When we track the video next week, we'll open with a set piece at different dynamics as you describe. As the official video audio capture is totally honest (no EQ, or any other enhancement), you'll get a really good idea of the drum's sounds.
That we do. I really do like the tone and camber of the drum sound.

But I'm with Dodeska; I'd be interested in knowing your choice to use 3 10" toms tuned separately.
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Old 04-05-2014, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

I like the tuning. Not too low. I could even stand to hear a tighter tuning on the shallowest tom, but I'm picking nits. It might shorten the note too much. On a set with 3 - 10" toms...I would prefer to be standing next to them, so I could feel the vibrations each drum gives off, before really committing to an opinion.. Since I don't have that luxury, I can only go by this recording. They sound a lot bigger than their size indicates.. I would be going for a wide spread note-wise between the toms. I do like your intervals. They could be widened just a bit to my ear, but that's just my personal preference, the tuning sounds very satisfying as it is right now. But if I had to try something different, I'd tune the first 2 up a tad higher and drop the 3rd just a tad lower. That said, If I had to get a set with 3 of the same diameter toms, I'd go with 12's.

What I really would like to see is an 11" tom. I think that would be a great size. 10, 11, and 12 with different depths would make a great set of racks. I used to think Ludwig's 12 and 13's were too close together, but I kind of flip flopped there. As long as each tom is 1" deeper than it's higher sibling, then a 1" difference in diameter is fine to me now. The only problem with that is case nesting, an important consideration for those who use cases.
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:03 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

They sound great. Have to agree with Larry about the shallow one. It can stand to be a little higher.
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Old 04-05-2014, 10:30 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

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Originally Posted by Dodeska View Post
I take it you'd forgotten that roll of tape was on the cymbal?!
Yes, then the battery gave up on the Zoom recorder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair View Post
That we do. I really do like the tone and camber of the drum sound.

But I'm with Dodeska; I'd be interested in knowing your choice to use 3 10" toms tuned separately.
It's more of an R&D project that's made it off the bench. We tested the new In-Tense shells tuning ranges, & it was time to visit depths re: overtones again. No surprises, they perform exactly as predicted, but I like how they sit in a kit context. It suits my current playing applications as a 6 piece & a 4 piece setup. As these will be my personal demo set for gigging, it all fell together TBH.

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I like the tuning. Not too low. I could even stand to hear a tighter tuning on the shallowest tom, but I'm picking nits. It might shorten the note too much.
I'll give it a lift tomorrow Larry, & see where it shortens out. TBH, I might have to change to a single ply head to keep it open if tuned higher.

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Originally Posted by Midnite Zephyr View Post
They sound great. Have to agree with Larry about the shallow one. It can stand to be a little higher.
Listening back, I agree. That's why I recorded it. Just to see how it all sits.
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Old 04-07-2014, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

Larry, I tuned the top tom up a bit, & the lower tom down a bit as you suggested. Sounds good. As expected, the high tom is a little short, not only due to it's high tuning, but also it's shallow shell delivering fewer low overtones.

Of course, game will change as soon as I get in the recording room :(
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Old 04-07-2014, 03:30 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

I like the sound a lot. bi jump from the last mounted to the floor but it gives a great range of fill ideas.
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

As the brain child of the multi-10'' tom idea I think they sound really good. I'm very proud of myself.

A friend brought one of those zoom q3 things over to my place the other day, I noticed it really pick up the lows, which sounds cool but I'm sure the studio recording will get more of a melodic sound from the toms.
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:19 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

They sound pretty dang good! Now that you've adjusted the tuning, I guess this is irrelevant, but I was just going to that as a Theory Person, the note of the floor tom was a little weird given that the three 10s were a minor chord. I suspect that the audience will appreciate drums tuned to their range more than drums tuned to an inverted chord, though :)

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What I really would like to see is an 11" tom.
You and me both, buddy... Drum Factory has the hoops. Remo has the heads. Gauger has the mount. All I need is a shell!!
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:21 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Hyde View Post
I like the sound a lot. bi jump from the last mounted to the floor but it gives a great range of fill ideas.
I've just this minute finished the tuning experimentation. The big jump between the "lower" 10" tom & the floor tom is now less. I've retuned the lower tom down, & the higher tom up. For those interested in the lug frequencies I'm using for the main recording (not this clip), they are as follows;

10" x 6" batter = 300Hz reso = 300Hz
10" x 8.5" batter = 230Hz reso = 283Hz
10" x 11.5" batter = 190Hz reso = 234Hz
16" x 14" batter = 103Hz reso = 147Hz
22" x 18" batter = 74Hz reso = 95Hz Nothing in the drum. Just small ring on the Emad
13" x 7" snare batter = 360Hz reso = 400Hz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre25 View Post
As the brain child of the multi-10'' tom idea I think they sound really good. I'm very proud of myself.

A friend brought one of those zoom q3 things over to my place the other day, I noticed it really pick up the lows, which sounds cool but I'm sure the studio recording will get more of a melodic sound from the toms.
Ahem, we were working on this way before you even mentioned it ;) ;) ;) Worry not, it won't make it into production in it's current form, but something close :)

As for Zoom cameras, they roll off badly below 60Hz, so miss out on most of the sub stuff. They pick up around 120Hz quite well though, & that's where the "punch" sits.
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

Sorry to take so long to comment, but I wanted to get my headphones before saying anything.

First off, I really like the character of the drums. Very lively, while sounding completely focused, rich, and controlled. It seems that is a hard combination to achieve - the drums are either lively, or focused, but rarely both. The floor tom is, to me, perfection.

As for the 3 ten inch toms, I like them with the headphones. Like a few others have mentioned, I would like a little wider spread in the intervals, but what you did works. One thing I noticed, on my tiny laptop speakers, is you can hardly hear any pitch differentiation at all between those toms. It takes better listening gear to have them sound as they should. Of course, lousy speakers make everything sound worse than good speakers or 'phones, but I felt that the closer interval was a contributor to the problem.

By and large, I think the experiment was a success, especially for the applications in which drums of this quality are likely to be played, recorded, and listened to.
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:39 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

For a rough recording (doesn't sound too rough) they sound great. Have you tuned each of the ten inch toms to different head tensions? (as opposed to the same tension which you might use on a set of toms with different head diameters).

Mark
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Old 04-07-2014, 05:38 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by porter View Post
They sound pretty dang good! Now that you've adjusted the tuning, I guess this is irrelevant, but I was just going to that as a Theory Person, the note of the floor tom was a little weird given that the three 10s were a minor chord. I suspect that the audience will appreciate drums tuned to their range more than drums tuned to an inverted chord, though :)
Now fixed. I picked up on that too. The whole setup is designed almost as a kit of two halves. Melodic on the top, thunderous & open on the bottom.

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Originally Posted by IDDrummer View Post
Sorry to take so long to comment, but I wanted to get my headphones before saying anything.

First off, I really like the character of the drums. Very lively, while sounding completely focused, rich, and controlled. It seems that is a hard combination to achieve - the drums are either lively, or focused, but rarely both. The floor tom is, to me, perfection.

As for the 3 ten inch toms, I like them with the headphones. Like a few others have mentioned, I would like a little wider spread in the intervals, but what you did works. One thing I noticed, on my tiny laptop speakers, is you can hardly hear any pitch differentiation at all between those toms. It takes better listening gear to have them sound as they should. Of course, lousy speakers make everything sound worse than good speakers or 'phones, but I felt that the closer interval was a contributor to the problem.

By and large, I think the experiment was a success, especially for the applications in which drums of this quality are likely to be played, recorded, and listened to.
Thanks for chiming in, & great observations. I've now widened the pitch spread, & it's all sitting much more comfortably. The totally honest studio recording will reveal what these special shells can actually do, although I expect the "novelty" of the setup will distract somewhat. Drummer magazine are doing a video review on the same day, & the Beatloaf guys are using it in the evening for their own video. Both of the videos will be with the kit in 4 piece guise, so much more representative of a "normal" kit, although 10", 16", 22" is not exactly common :)

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Originally Posted by markiet1966 View Post
For a rough recording (doesn't sound too rough) they sound great. Have you tuned each of the ten inch toms to different head tensions? (as opposed to the same tension which you might use on a set of toms with different head diameters).

Mark
Thanks Mark, yes, different tensions, as outlined in my post below :)
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Old 04-07-2014, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

Already better then expected not that I thought it would sound bad in anyway just was not sure there would be a big difference in the 3 10" toms. Very cool
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Old 04-08-2014, 07:31 AM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

Listening through the monitors in my project room, the character of the drums is very consistent. And that floor tom is killing. I know a lot of folks who wished their kick drums sounded like that. Whew! Intense is right.
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:31 AM
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Already better then expected not that I thought it would sound bad in anyway just was not sure there would be a big difference in the 3 10" toms. Very cool
Thank you :) The 3 x 10" toms are certainly set to be a polarising, even thought provoking inclusion in this presentation. I've now widened the tuning spectrum compared to this video clip, so I'm interested in opinions when i return later in the week with the official video.

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Originally Posted by Aeolian View Post
Listening through the monitors in my project room, the character of the drums is very consistent. And that floor tom is killing. I know a lot of folks who wished their kick drums sounded like that. Whew! Intense is right.
Cheers! Of course, the little Zoom camera hasn't captured the bass drum at all in this clip. The audio we're about to capture will offer a much better "in the room" perspective on the drums. As usual, totally without processing for the body of the video, but we do intend to add a short section of mildly processed capture as a comparison.
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Old 04-08-2014, 02:20 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

Andy, can you get a picture from ground level in the front, not looking down? I would love to see the layout of the tom depths from the audience perspective, I am really digging this kit
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

I particularly like your bass drum tuning as it follows the floor nicely (as opposed to "thump").
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:13 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

Given the 3 toms are all the same diameter, I'm impressed how much separation of tone you were able to get without resorting to cranking the top drum.

I'd be curious if would still be as apparent in the context of music.

Either way, very nice drums!
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Old 04-09-2014, 12:09 AM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

The lowest 10 seems a little too low for me . But just being a little picky.
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Old 04-11-2014, 04:14 PM
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Default Re: First tuning - opinions please :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Hyde View Post
Andy, can you get a picture from ground level in the front, not looking down? I would love to see the layout of the tom depths from the audience perspective, I am really digging this kit
Check out the visuals & video in this thread :) http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...44#post1249944

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Originally Posted by Bruce M. Thomson View Post
I particularly like your bass drum tuning as it follows the floor nicely (as opposed to "thump").
Thank you. Please let me know if that translated in the official video.

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
Given the 3 toms are all the same diameter, I'm impressed how much separation of tone you were able to get without resorting to cranking the top drum.

I'd be curious if would still be as apparent in the context of music.

Either way, very nice drums!
Thanks Ian. In the official video, I widened the tuning by quite a bit, so even more pitch separation.

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Originally Posted by drum4fun27302 View Post
The lowest 10 seems a little too low for me . But just being a little picky.
Even lower in the finished video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgFt6QFzfEM&hd=1
Let me know if you like it :)
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