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  #1  
Old 07-11-2010, 04:12 AM
werecatz werecatz is offline
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Default Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

I'm looking for a hi-hat stand/clamp system that will keep my hats closed while my foot is off the pedal and open when I push down. Although that sounds counter intuitive I'd like to have that closed hi-hat sound when using my Double kicks.

Does anybody know of any existing hardware? Other wise I figured out It could probably work by attaching the bottom hi-hat to the rod instead but it'll take a bit of figuring out.

Also any hints on Hi-Hat usage with double kicks, I'm relatively new to them

Thanks in advanced.
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  #2  
Old 07-11-2010, 04:39 AM
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

I haven't heard of one. Most people just use drop clutches or x-hats.
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  #3  
Old 07-11-2010, 05:12 AM
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

Now that I think of it, thats actually a pretty good idea! I don't think anyone makes something like this right now.
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  #4  
Old 07-11-2010, 05:24 AM
werecatz werecatz is offline
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

See I've never heard of drop clutches :) Thanks. Yeah it seemed pretty interesting at 4 am when I thought of it XD. I'll probably attempt to make it anyway just as a project. All I need is a way to make the top hat stationary and then it should be pretty straight forward.
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Old 07-11-2010, 09:45 AM
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

it would actually be easy. a small stationary shaft connected to the base plate to hold the top hat. a secondary hollow shaft attached via a y connection to a foot plate with a compression spring. the y connection would allow the inner shaft to pass straight threw the outer shaft past the pedal to the base plate, the outer shaft would slide up and down on the inner shaft. a final tube on the outside of those to would hold the compression spring from the bottom, have the legs and base plate attached to it.

hopefully i made that understandable.....

if not i can draw a picture....
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Old 07-11-2010, 10:36 AM
werecatz werecatz is offline
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

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Originally Posted by azrae1l View Post
it would actually be easy. a small stationary shaft connected to the base plate to hold the top hat. a secondary hollow shaft attached via a y connection to a foot plate with a compression spring. the y connection would allow the inner shaft to pass straight threw the outer shaft past the pedal to the base plate, the outer shaft would slide up and down on the inner shaft. a final tube on the outside of those to would hold the compression spring from the bottom, have the legs and base plate attached to it.

hopefully i made that understandable.....

if not i can draw a picture....
I think I get it, what do you mean by Y connection? so what you're saying is instead of having the normal rod and attaching the base hi-hat to that instead (much like a traditional hi-hat only reversed. you have a rod pushing the whole base of the bottom hi-hat so that it can remain cushioned.
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  #7  
Old 07-11-2010, 02:03 PM
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

I'm looking for a hi-hat stand/clamp system that will keep my hats closed while my foot is off the pedal and open when I push down.

Not gonna happen unless you make it.


I'd like to have that closed hi-hat sound when using my Double kicks.

TAMA COBRA CLUTCH @ 6:30
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  #8  
Old 07-12-2010, 12:32 AM
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

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Originally Posted by werecatz View Post
I think I get it, what do you mean by Y connection? so what you're saying is instead of having the normal rod and attaching the base hi-hat to that instead (much like a traditional hi-hat only reversed. you have a rod pushing the whole base of the bottom hi-hat so that it can remain cushioned.
y connection, would seperate either side of the food plate to either side of the outer rod. if you don't seperate it and leave a space for the inner hat rod your going to have to come up with another design to work around both rods being in the same place at the same time. with a space for the inner hat rod you can easily rig it so you have a nice straight down stroke with less moving parts, less friction and so forth.

with a compression spring around the outer shaft under the bottom hat, when you pull the outer rod down with your foot it will compress the spring, hat moves down away from the upper hat. when you release the spring will force the lower hat back up into the upper hat. kinda like a strut on a car....

clutch on both hats would allow free movement of either hat for height. it is very easy and plausable design.....

i'm at work right now but i'll draw up a design and post it for you later on when i get the chance...
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Old 07-12-2010, 06:50 AM
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

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Originally Posted by azrae1l View Post
y connection, would seperate either side of the food plate to either side of the outer rod. if you don't seperate it and leave a space for the inner hat rod your going to have to come up with another design to work around both rods being in the same place at the same time. with a space for the inner hat rod you can easily rig it so you have a nice straight down stroke with less moving parts, less friction and so forth.

with a compression spring around the outer shaft under the bottom hat, when you pull the outer rod down with your foot it will compress the spring, hat moves down away from the upper hat. when you release the spring will force the lower hat back up into the upper hat. kinda like a strut on a car....

clutch on both hats would allow free movement of either hat for height. it is very easy and plausable design.....

i'm at work right now but i'll draw up a design and post it for you later on when i get the chance...

I'm fairly certain I understand it, effectively it would look similar to a normal hi-hat. and the lower hat would connect to a hollow rod that goes over the inner shaft, my only concern would be the clutch on the lower hat crushing the rod onto the top hat's shaft. I'll also need to make a larger hole in the center of the lower hat clutch in order to fit it over the slightly larger tube.
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  #10  
Old 07-12-2010, 07:08 AM
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

I've never heard of anyone making such a thing, but I can see how it would be useful.
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  #11  
Old 07-12-2010, 08:43 AM
werecatz werecatz is offline
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

I've changed the design I'm going to try a bit. Instead of using a secondary rod for the lower hat and moving that towards the top hat I'm going to use a gear to change he direction the chain is pulling in (I.E when I push down the chain loosens and when I release it pulls tighter) Add a compression spring under the footboard to over power the spring on the rod and pull the top hat tight.
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  #12  
Old 07-12-2010, 08:52 AM
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

Gibraltar kind of makes something like that, but not in a main hihat. Check out the Gibraltar Hot Hat (an extra hihat controller that mounts to a regular hihat stand), it might be modified to suit your needs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9WpdyNYZaQ

The hot hat closes when the main hihat opens, and vice versa.

I don't think I'd want that mechanism in my main hihats though, it'd be very counter-intuitive to have the chick on the pedal release, and i would also never be able to play open hihats and double kick.

Like others have said, check out drop clutches and the Tama Cobra Clutch. Definitely a more standard and useful way to go.
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  #13  
Old 07-12-2010, 09:49 AM
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naigewron View Post
Gibraltar kind of makes something like that, but not in a main hihat. Check out the Gibraltar Hot Hat (an extra hihat controller that mounts to a regular hihat stand), it might be modified to suit your needs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9WpdyNYZaQ

The hot hat closes when the main hihat opens, and vice versa.

I don't think I'd want that mechanism in my main hihats though, it'd be very counter-intuitive to have the chick on the pedal release, and i would also never be able to play open hihats and double kick.

Like others have said, check out drop clutches and the Tama Cobra Clutch. Definitely a more standard and useful way to go.
i've seen those but i wouldn't want it on a main hat, a constant second chick would get annoying after a while.
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  #14  
Old 07-14-2010, 01:36 AM
hausdok hausdok is offline
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

Hiya, I'm new to this site so sorry if I havn't read everything. Here is one of the coolest things tho. Guy invented this and I'm interested so am looking into it. Look and see:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oigx5YjvGxs
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  #15  
Old 07-14-2010, 02:30 PM
werecatz werecatz is offline
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

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Originally Posted by hausdok View Post
Hiya, I'm new to this site so sorry if I havn't read everything. Here is one of the coolest things tho. Guy invented this and I'm interested so am looking into it. Look and see:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oigx5YjvGxs
Yeah I had a look at this, the only thing I don't like about it is it's reliance on electronics. Disregarding electronic drums which are used for the sound. Hardware in the drumming world is generally all mechanic without the use of electric sensors, there's a lot less that can go wrong that way. As much as this system seems really cool I could see a couple of major flaws in the design with the camera or software being confused about if the foot is there or not, slowness in the response or systems failure etc. Although it is a sweet idea and I wouldn't mind having it but I think for what that guy wants the Tama clutch is a lot more solid.
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  #16  
Old 07-14-2010, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

tama makes a hi hat stand that has a foot operated lock clutch.
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  #17  
Old 07-15-2010, 08:55 AM
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

Instead of moving the bottom cymbal, why not use the weight of the top cymbal to your advantage. You would have to make new linkage for your stand and perhaps a longer bottom plate that connects the pedal. Using a solid link, make a pivot point on the linkage like a teeter-totter. Disconnect the spring in your stand. Done. The weight of the cymbal will keep it closed when the pedal is up, and when you push the pedal down, the linkage pivots, pushing up the rod and top cymbal....

Hurry up before I patent it....
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  #18  
Old 07-15-2010, 03:52 PM
werecatz werecatz is offline
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

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Originally Posted by latzanimal View Post
Instead of moving the bottom cymbal, why not use the weight of the top cymbal to your advantage. You would have to make new linkage for your stand and perhaps a longer bottom plate that connects the pedal. Using a solid link, make a pivot point on the linkage like a teeter-totter. Disconnect the spring in your stand. Done. The weight of the cymbal will keep it closed when the pedal is up, and when you push the pedal down, the linkage pivots, pushing up the rod and top cymbal....

Hurry up before I patent it....
haha yeah probably :P I thought about that before but if you think about it the Radial motion of the end of the pedal wouldn't allow you to push the rod up, you'd need some intermediary device to translate the rotation into an up and down push something like a piston
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  #19  
Old 07-16-2010, 08:57 AM
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

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Originally Posted by werecatz View Post
haha yeah probably :P I thought about that before but if you think about it the Radial motion of the end of the pedal wouldn't allow you to push the rod up, you'd need some intermediary device to translate the rotation into an up and down push something like a piston
It would if you moved the pedal away from the base or cut the footboard off. Think of a bass pedal set up for a cocktail drumset, only instead of the cam using a solid bar on a pivot...
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  #20  
Old 02-09-2012, 03:24 AM
behemouthman behemouthman is offline
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

I came up with this idea on my own and then i discovered this thread but i actually built one today. I'm not going to say how because there are allready good ways above. But one proble i ran into is that you have to weigh down the top hi-hat so that you can get a solid chink.
What iwill tell you is you have to remove the spring and find a way to push up the hi-hat ( i used a lever)

Last edited by behemouthman; 02-09-2012 at 03:35 AM.
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  #21  
Old 02-09-2012, 03:54 AM
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

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Originally Posted by behemouthman View Post
But one proble i ran into is that you have to weigh down the top hi-hat so that you can get a solid chink.
I'd just add extra weight to the top rod if I used that system. It would serve the same purpose.

It's an interesting thread. I've not seen this one before. Have you got a vid of it in action?
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  #22  
Old 02-09-2012, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

Isn't there a way to reverse the spring action to pull down the top hat, rather than push it up?
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  #23  
Old 02-09-2012, 11:11 PM
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

I always wondered what it would be like to play a hi-hat this way. It would mean less time pressing the pedal for someone who plays more closed hat stuff but if you use the hat pedal to play quarter/8th notes then you'd have a weird task on your hands (at least you would until you got used to it).

I'd just get an ex-hat, I have one and I love it. I've really grown as a drummer since I've been using it. I'm a double kick player too.
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  #24  
Old 02-10-2012, 12:54 AM
behemouthman behemouthman is offline
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

sorry i don't have a video but you need to understand that this was just something I threw toghether.
Basically i took apart my hi-hat stand removed the spring and reasembled it.

Then i detatched the foot pedal. From there i attached the rod from the rod on one end of a metal bar and the foot pedal on the other end.

Finally i put a bar in the middle of the metal bar.

Now when i push down on the pedal the one end of the bar is pulled down and the other end pushes up the hi hat. Like a sea-saw
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Old 02-10-2012, 12:59 AM
behemouthman behemouthman is offline
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

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Originally Posted by Dre25 View Post
I always wondered what it would be like to play a hi-hat this way. It would mean less time pressing the pedal for someone who plays more closed hat stuff but if you use the hat pedal to play quarter/8th notes then you'd have a weird task on your hands (at least you would until you got used to it).
Ive messed with my rig a little and there really isn't much difference
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  #26  
Old 02-10-2012, 05:45 AM
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Default Re: Reverse Hi-Hat Stands

I use one of these.

I read this thread but if I understand correctly it seems like this is a good solution and you don't have to use the drop clutch method which if you're recording, drops a hat cymbal fall in your take. This device allows you to just swing your heal over and you've got your hats just where you want them when moving to double bass.

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