DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Gear > Other Gear

Other Gear Discuss Hardware and all other equipment not covered in the other topics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-10-2010, 11:52 PM
Fox622003's Avatar
Fox622003 Fox622003 is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1,069
Default Mixer: Allen & Heath or Yamaha?

A while back I asked about getting a budget home recording set up for my drums and other instruments, now I'm close to buying, and as for the mixer, I can't decide if it's worth it to pay the extra cash (300 dollars) for the Allen & Heath one. I want it for recording at home and playing/recording live. Also, there might be similar options I am not considering, but these two seem like what I need, both with effects, several mic inputs, and USB interface.

Allen & Heath


Yamaha
(The one I'm talking about is the MG166CX-USB)

Thanks!


Fox.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-11-2010, 06:28 AM
Numberonefan Numberonefan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 290
Default Re: Mixer: Allen & Heath or Yamaha?

Either will do the job. Both are quality boards Allen and Heath is the better name. Going this route monitoring your mix as your recording will be paramount since youíll be sending a left and right signal (2 channels panning dependent) that canít be easily massaged once in your PC.

Another route would be an 8 or 10 channel interface (USB or Firewire) to your PC then mix in the box (PC). This gives you FULL control over each mic(drum) individually and gives you the most flexibility.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-11-2010, 07:52 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 10,266
Default Re: Mixer: Allen & Heath or Yamaha?

I would make the bigger investment in the Yamaha O1v96.

But you're talking $440 versus $2200. But you're also talking a board that has few equals in its price range and gives you lots of routing options.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-11-2010, 09:32 AM
MusiQmaN's Avatar
MusiQmaN MusiQmaN is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Posts: 937
Default Re: Mixer: Allen & Heath or Yamaha?

c'mon... 400-2000 that's a 1600 difference for a budget... and the budget is clearly not 2000+

The 01v96 is a great desk (but in that range there are maybe even better desks?)

You could look for an used 01v desk. Witch would be in the same price range and has more options.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-11-2010, 09:55 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 10,266
Default Re: Mixer: Allen & Heath or Yamaha?

I understand the budget, that's why I pointed that out.

On the other hand, most drummers here probably wouldn't bat an eyelash at spending $3000 on a set of drums, I figure something as integral as a console to present your complete sound either live or recorded would get the same amount of consideration.

And as far as consoles go the O1v is the smallest desk we use here at the Disneyland Resort (where I mix regularly). There isn't anything in it's price range that does better. We've actually gotten into using it in ways that the folks at Yamaha haven't documented.

Of course, this is probably overkill for what our OP wants, but at its most basic level, the mic pres and circuitry of the console laugh at drum signals. Lower line consoles sometimes have a hard time handling the pressure levels. So I also look at it as "buying once" instead of getting something only to find out you need better electronics in the future.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-11-2010, 03:49 PM
Fox622003's Avatar
Fox622003 Fox622003 is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1,069
Default Re: Mixer: Allen & Heath or Yamaha?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusiQmaN View Post
c'mon... 400-2000 that's a 1600 difference for a budget... and the budget is clearly not 2000+

The 01v96 is a great desk (but in that range there are maybe even better desks?)

You could look for an used 01v desk. Witch would be in the same price range and has more options.
I'm a little hesitant to buying this kind of stuff used, it's a bit out of my field of expertise, it's not the same as buying drums, or a cymbal used, and I don't know enough about consoles to really know what to test, or anything. Plus, I'm going to buy when I go on a trip to New York (I'm from Argentina), and I'll only be there for 5 days, so it'll be a little difficult logistically. HOWEVER, it IS a considerable option, I mean, just like cymbals, you get a lot more for the same money, so I don't know. Is it a good idea to buy used electronics like this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Of course, this is probably overkill for what our OP wants, but at its most basic level, the mic pres and circuitry of the console laugh at drum signals. Lower line consoles sometimes have a hard time handling the pressure levels. So I also look at it as "buying once" instead of getting something only to find out you need better electronics in the future.
Definitely not overkill. But still, 2000 is a little out of the question. While it is true that this is a VERY important piece of equipment that works both live and for recording and saves time and money from going to a studio, it is really my first time setting up a home recording setup. How big will the audio quality difference be? I mean, I understand I won't have all the channels on the PC, but I figure that with careful pre-mixing (trial and error), I can get quite a decent sound for studio or live applications. But tell me what you think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numberonefan View Post
Another route would be an 8 or 10 channel interface (USB or Firewire) to your PC then mix in the box (PC). This gives you FULL control over each mic(drum) individually and gives you the most flexibility.
Right, I've heard about some USB mixers that send ALL the channels to your PC, just haven't found any with at least 10 channels (I'll be using 9 drum mics in studio, a couple less live to make room for the rest of my band -- if I buy the 10 mic inputs mixer). So, do you know of any, around this price range?


Thanks a lot for speaking up and sharing your experience.

Fox.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-11-2010, 08:21 PM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 10,266
Default Re: Mixer: Allen & Heath or Yamaha?

"....Definitely not overkill. But still, 2000 is a little out of the question. While it is true that this is a VERY important piece of equipment that works both live and for recording and saves time and money from going to a studio, it is really my first time setting up a home recording setup. How big will the audio quality difference be? I mean, I understand I won't have all the channels on the PC, but I figure that with careful pre-mixing (trial and error), I can get quite a decent sound for studio or live applications. But tell me what you think."


Well, I've gone that route too by having a Tascam US-1641 USB interface plugged into my mac. The box will take 8-inputs (XLRs) at a time (there are more quarter-inch inputs too), so you could literally record at least 10 tracks at once and it doesn't sound half bad.

The only problem that always comes up for people who like this option is when they find out they need more computer to get it done. Recording one or two tracks at a time via USB into your computer is ok, but as soon as you say "eight at once", then your computer has to be fast, with a fast hard drive, and lots of RAM. Your computer now becomes the device to process all the signals, and to apply effects, so there has to be alot of horsepower under the hood.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other, eh?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-11-2010, 10:22 PM
Fox622003's Avatar
Fox622003 Fox622003 is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1,069
Default Re: Mixer: Allen & Heath or Yamaha?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
"....Definitely not overkill. But still, 2000 is a little out of the question. While it is true that this is a VERY important piece of equipment that works both live and for recording and saves time and money from going to a studio, it is really my first time setting up a home recording setup. How big will the audio quality difference be? I mean, I understand I won't have all the channels on the PC, but I figure that with careful pre-mixing (trial and error), I can get quite a decent sound for studio or live applications. But tell me what you think."


Well, I've gone that route too by having a Tascam US-1641 USB interface plugged into my mac. The box will take 8-inputs (XLRs) at a time (there are more quarter-inch inputs too), so you could literally record at least 10 tracks at once and it doesn't sound half bad.

The only problem that always comes up for people who like this option is when they find out they need more computer to get it done. Recording one or two tracks at a time via USB into your computer is ok, but as soon as you say "eight at once", then your computer has to be fast, with a fast hard drive, and lots of RAM. Your computer now becomes the device to process all the signals, and to apply effects, so there has to be alot of horsepower under the hood.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other, eh?
But listen to that Tascam here. It starts at about 3:35. I hope I can get something nicer than that with proper setup, my Genius computer mic alone already sounds better :-/


Fox.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-11-2010, 10:30 PM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 10,266
Default Re: Mixer: Allen & Heath or Yamaha?

But isn't the point to get a number of inputs into the computer? Or had you decided that a stereo USB feed from a USB mixer was enough for what you're doing?

I suppose I should've asked that question first.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-11-2010, 11:05 PM
Fox622003's Avatar
Fox622003 Fox622003 is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1,069
Default Re: Mixer: Allen & Heath or Yamaha?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
But isn't the point to get a number of inputs into the computer? Or had you decided that a stereo USB feed from a USB mixer was enough for what you're doing?

I suppose I should've asked that question first.
It's all about the sound. It's going to end up as one big track anyway. If I can manage decent mixing for each different input before reaching the PC, I won't need separate channels there. And also, the mixer will work for both live and studio applications. Not to mention, the mixers I mentioned have 10 and 16 inputs, while the TASCAM only has 8. It is a good suggestion, but given that sound sample I provided, it's less considerable.


Fox.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-11-2010, 11:55 PM
audiotech
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Mixer: Allen & Heath or Yamaha?

I see what you're getting at Fox and I always work with an open desk set-up myself, but I do multi track and it's basically the same as having up to 46 individual tracks on your PC, only analog. The nice thing about having separate tracks on your computer is for fine tuning your mix once it's on your hard drive. It may not seem like it now, but after listening to a few takes your going to wish that you would have more control over your final product than what a two channel mix will give you.

Dennis
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-12-2010, 02:31 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 10,266
Default Re: Mixer: Allen & Heath or Yamaha?

Hmm. It sounds then like you can pretty much eliminate the computer from the equation then, yes?

If you're only going to use it as a two-track stereo mixdown deck, then GarageBand and iTunes is all you need for that. Everything you need will be on the front end, then I go back to my O1v recommendation.

But then you're stuck for a recorder, which will bring you back to recording into the computer. So, if you had the O1v, which would give you 8 auxiliary outputs, AND the Tascam US-1641, then you can get the band into the console, assign whoever to whatever aux outs, send all eight of those into the Tascam, then you'd have an 8-track recording of your band, which you could also output the stereo feed into the house for a performance. This option takes away the fact that you won't have monitors for the band on stage, however.

The Tascam would still be a good choice in this instance because you're basically using it to get line levels into the computer for recording. The O1v is determining how good it will sound.

How's that?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-12-2010, 03:19 AM
Fox622003's Avatar
Fox622003 Fox622003 is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1,069
Default Re: Mixer: Allen & Heath or Yamaha?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Hmm. It sounds then like you can pretty much eliminate the computer from the equation then, yes?

If you're only going to use it as a two-track stereo mixdown deck, then GarageBand and iTunes is all you need for that. Everything you need will be on the front end, then I go back to my O1v recommendation.

But then you're stuck for a recorder, which will bring you back to recording into the computer. So, if you had the O1v, which would give you 8 auxiliary outputs, AND the Tascam US-1641, then you can get the band into the console, assign whoever to whatever aux outs, send all eight of those into the Tascam, then you'd have an 8-track recording of your band, which you could also output the stereo feed into the house for a performance. This option takes away the fact that you won't have monitors for the band on stage, however.

The Tascam would still be a good choice in this instance because you're basically using it to get line levels into the computer for recording. The O1v is determining how good it will sound.

How's that?
But currently I don't have a way to go from my mics to the PC, in fact, I don't have the mics yet. The idea is to buy the mics + the interface, and those mixers I mentioned have all the inputs I need plus USB connectivity, and that's why I wanted one of those. While your recommendation is alright, it's just too much money for the budget I have in mind. I just want a decent and portable studio and live sound set up, I'm not going to mix all of my band's discs with this.
I understand about not having all the channels in my PC, but for now I'll solve it with careful premixing and playing. Unless it's a big NO for the Yamaha MG 166 CX USB, I believe I'm going for that one, since there doesn't seem to be anything worth the extra 300 dollars for the Allen & Heath. Thanks again for taking the time.


Fox.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-12-2010, 04:49 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 10,266
Default Re: Mixer: Allen & Heath or Yamaha?

Ah, the MG will be good for you then. It'll mix, and send a stereo feed to your computer.

Heck, you could even forego bringing the computer along and record to one of those little stereo flash card recorders. Then dump that card to your computer at your convenience so you're not having to worry about dragging the computer around.

If you could find something like that Yamaha MG without the USB interface (might be alot cheaper), and then picking up something like the little Zoom H2 (I got one of these, it's awesome), you're all set. I just have this inherent fear of bringing around a laptop into a live situation and then having something bad happen to it at a gig!

I saw a beer spilled on a brand new MacBook Pro at a gig once. Not pretty. Worse, the computer was handling all the MIDI sequences for this band - and they had no spare!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com