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  #1  
Old 07-13-2014, 07:42 AM
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Default Should kids be told they're ''special?''

I just caught the end of some kids cartoon as I sat down to eat and one of the teddy bear characters turned to me (the audience) and said ''you're special, you're special because no one else is like you'' and this kind of thing.

I'm a bit traumatized and I need to talk about it.

Now I don't have kids but I am a confused young man (well, I'm nearly 30) and often reflect back on my past and upbringing (and what went wrong with it), and this struck a chord with me. I know it's just a silly cartoon but if a generation of kids are brought up thinking they're somehow better than others, how hard will they work? How will they work in teams? And how hard will they crash back down to earth when they realize they're just another face in the crowd and they might have to do some work if they want to be unique?

Maybe I'm just mad because my parents did the opposite. What do you think?

Is this trash talk? I'm sorry, here's a cool drum solo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSRpFDEEFoE
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Old 07-13-2014, 07:52 AM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

If everyone gets a trophy just for showing up, the only thing for sale in thrift stores will be trophies when you are 60.
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Old 07-13-2014, 08:20 AM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

I must admit I probably see more kids these days (up through the high school level) being told that they are special by the significant people in their lives more than I recall in my generation. And it is a fine line to cross.

But sometimes, when I interact with the kids I work with, most know when they're not great as opposed to believing their own hype, so maybe all the sunshine-blowing going on around them is having a negative effect on whether or not they really believe it? I hope so.
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Old 07-13-2014, 08:21 AM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

This is trash talk.

But because it came from you, it is special trash talk.

.
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:02 AM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

If kids extrapolate from it that everybody else is special too, and should therefore be treated with consideration and respect, I have no problem with that. Nor do I have a problem if it means that they respect themselves and don't allow others to treat them badly. And maybe it has come about because of the materialistic society we live in, and it's a way of trying to teach kids that there are some things whose values can't be quantified in terms of money.

Whether it works or not, I couldn't say.
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Old 07-13-2014, 11:44 AM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

How bloody ridiculous. How can everyone be special. What kind of skewed mathematical lesson is that. Offering messages that encourage individuality is more like it. That makes sense. Spouting drivel soon becomes meaningless as kids work out the harsh realities of life for themselves. Most aren't stupid, & will thank those that said it how it is, rather than clinging on to some perpetual Santa delusion.
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Old 07-13-2014, 12:20 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

“The trouble with most of us is that we'd rather be ruined by praise than saved by criticism.”
― Norman Vincent Peale

There are a bunch of quotes like this... one of the Caesars' said something akin to "too much praise is no praise at all"

Praise is good but too much is probably not a good thing.

or... the counter argument...

If you don't praise your children they will seek it elsewhere. Okay... after 18 and they're out of the house... go for it. It's all you at that point.

I raised 4, they're all independent and doing just fine. I didn't heap a bunch of stuff on them like cars and fashion. They earned the money to buy their first cars etc... etc... they didn't have personal phones (pre-cell phone era). Didn't watch the boob tube and had evening classes, after a family sit down dinner to ensure that they were up to snuff on their homework assignments. It was real basic and the results got them up and running. We camped, hiked, they played some ball... the usual stuff.

And... they still visit. What more could pop's want? Nothing. Life is good. I'm happy for them all.
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Old 07-13-2014, 03:04 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

It all comes down to the Politically Correct world some wish it to be. We can't play dodge ball any longer because the less agile students will stand out from the more coordinated ones. Everyone gets a participation trophy, b.s. I won't speak for other countries but we use the term, "the pussification of America" Now I believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny, and Superman but can see where others may not. I have been told that lightning never strikes twice in the same place, and that there are no two snowflakes that look alike. Humans have a unique DNA that helps the cops find the bad guys, so in that sense we are all special, but to have 300,000,000 special people in this country is a bit far fetched. As Magenta said however, the little ones need to know that little Johnny, not me, has 6 fingers on each hand, and should not be made fun of because he is special. Everything today is exaggerated to the point that "too much praise is no praise"
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Old 07-13-2014, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

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Everyone gets a participation trophy, b.s.

Everything today is exaggerated to the point that "too much praise is no praise"
Oh, you've got me started now! Of COURSE the taking part is important, and the amount of effort that somebody puts in should be recognised and appreciated, but it shouldn't come from a trophy: it should come via the words of somebody whose opinion matters. They last an awful lot longer, mean a lot more, and have a greater effect - and they don't detract from the achievement of somebody who is the best.

And when you've taken part and put in an enormous amount of effort, and the person whose opinion matters praises the actual achievement ... well, it does not get any better than that.

Incidentally, Grunt, you rock that sash. Have you tried teaming it with a cape?
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Old 07-13-2014, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

I have found that when flying with a cape the sash usually gets around my neck and chokes me.
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Old 07-13-2014, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

You should not get accolades of praise for doing exactly what you are supposed to do. Bonuses aren't handed out for bringing a project to completion with the exact dollar amount and day of contract expiration. They come when you are under budget and days ahead.
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Old 07-13-2014, 06:08 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

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I have found that when flying with a cape the sash usually gets around my neck and chokes me.
Not good. What happens when you add a mullet?

Feel free to moderate me for straying off-topic!
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Old 07-13-2014, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

My kids are special to me.

But no, not everyone gets a trophy.
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Old 07-13-2014, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
It all comes down to the Politically Correct world some wish it to be. We can't play dodge ball any longer because the less agile students will stand out from the more coordinated ones. Everyone gets a participation trophy, b.s. I won't speak for other countries but we use the term, "the pussification of America"...
First, I don't think there is any sort of general ban on dodge ball, although a specific school might. Also, I doubt the reason for doing so has anything to do with being "politically correct" (whatever that is supposed to mean) or avoiding having "the less agile students stand out". Many sports require much greater agility, basketball for example, and I don't see people clamoring to shut them down. From what I gather, some people don't want their kids to play potentially rough contact sports. I don't see a problem with that. Granted, I am not in favor of figuratively clothing your kids in bubble wrap, but there are legitimate issues here. Just consider everything that has recently come to light regarding brain damage to football players, from the NFL down to high school.

Also, I don't buy the argument about "America being pussified". Just because people used to do X, doing it any differently now is somehow Un-American or not manly? What are we, anti-progress? (And really, "pussified"? Am I the only one who sees the inherent misogyny in that term?)

Look, when I was a teenager I pretty much lived on my bike. There were no such things as bike helmets. Today, I wear a helmet whenever I ride. Does that make me a "pussy"? No, that makes me smart because I am aware of what could happen and I can take steps to prevent it. I'm being personally responsible. In fact, I know more than one person who would not be here today if it wasn't for bike helmets; my brother being one. He smacked his head on a rock in a mountain bike accident splitting his helmet in two. He surely would have died or been severely injured otherwise. As it was he only broke his collarbone.


Having said the above, I am also no fan of blind praise. Yes, everyone is special in that they're unique, and I'd much rather we tell kids that they're unique. I've seen this well meaning idea perverted in odd ways. For example, many road races have a kids run before the main event. In some of them all the of kids are given a race bib with the number 1 on it. I'm afraid that's just dumb for a variety of reasons. (Let's see, impossible to easily identify a particular kid, a number isn't necessarily a ranking, all kids are no longer unique-they're just sort of "equal" in a very cheesy way,...)

Sometimes my students complain about grades. Everyone wants an A. I tell them "If everyone gets an A then no one gets an A". This confuses them until I explain that if everyone gets an A then the grade has lost all meaning to differentiate performance. It would be as if I said everyone got a "Blue" on the last exam. Lake Wobegon aside, everyone can't be above average at everything. Mind you, I hate the concept of grades but they're built into the system. If you keep time constant, performance is going to vary unless every student is identical. I'd prefer a system of mastery but that would too expensive for many people's preferences.
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Old 07-13-2014, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

Everyone, especially children, need to learn how to lose.
They need to learn how to pick themselves up, dust off and try again.

Everyone getting recognition for their effort is good. But it needs to be clear, there are winners and losers.


( Should we continually praise and compliment a bad drummer until he/she thinks they are a great drummer? )

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Old 07-13-2014, 07:12 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

The previous generation (mine) in America was brought up with Mr.Rogers every afternoon telling us the same things so this is nothing new.
Nothing to see here, move along.
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Old 07-13-2014, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

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First, I don't think there is any sort of general ban on dodge ball, although a specific school might. Also, I doubt the reason for doing so has anything to do with being "politically correct" (whatever that is supposed to mean) or avoiding having "the less agile students stand out". Many sports require much greater agility, basketball for example, and I don't see people clamoring to shut them down. From what I gather, some people don't want their kids to play potentially rough contact sports. I don't see a problem with that. Granted, I am not in favor of figuratively clothing your kids in bubble wrap, but there are legitimate issues here. Just consider everything that has recently come to light regarding brain damage to football players, from the NFL down to high school.

Also, I don't buy the argument about "America being pussified". Just because people used to do X, doing it any differently now is somehow Un-American or not manly? What are we, anti-progress? (And really, "pussified"? Am I the only one who sees the inherent misogyny in that term?)

Look, when I was a teenager I pretty much lived on my bike. There were no such things as bike helmets. Today, I wear a helmet whenever I ride. Does that make me a "pussy"? No, that makes me smart because I am aware of what could happen and I can take steps to prevent it. I'm being personally responsible. In fact, I know more than one person who would not be here today if it wasn't for bike helmets; my brother being one. He smacked his head on a rock in a mountain bike accident splitting his helmet in two. He surely would have died or been severely injured otherwise. As it was he only broke his collarbone.


Having said the above, I am also no fan of blind praise. Yes, everyone is special in that they're unique, and I'd much rather we tell kids that they're unique. I've seen this well meaning idea perverted in odd ways. For example, many road races have a kids run before the main event. In some of them all the of kids are given a race bib with the number 1 on it. I'm afraid that's just dumb for a variety of reasons. (Let's see, impossible to easily identify a particular kid, a number isn't necessarily a ranking, all kids are no longer unique-they're just sort of "equal" in a very cheesy way,...)

Sometimes my students complain about grades. Everyone wants an A. I tell them "If everyone gets an A then no one gets an A". This confuses them until I explain that if everyone gets an A then the grade has lost all meaning to differentiate performance. It would be as if I said everyone got a "Blue" on the last exam. Lake Wobegon aside, everyone can't be above average at everything. Mind you, I hate the concept of grades but they're built into the system. If you keep time constant, performance is going to vary unless every student is identical. I'd prefer a system of mastery but that would too expensive for many people's preferences.
Excerpt from an article on a New Hampshire school board banning Dodgeball. I used pussification. they use nannyism. I used less agile, they use bullying. There are many who feel the same way. Many. You are entitled to your opinion. As a nation we have become soft, and will become softer. Whether you wear a helmet or not is your choice as it is in some states for motorcycles.

"Raising a generation of pansies who can’t handle adversity"

Objectify? How about motivate? Challenge? Concepts that encourage those who don’t play so well to find ways to be better?

What’s next, ending tackle football, basketball and track because, gee, some kids are just more physically talented than others?

There are alternative solutions other than simply banning an obviously popular activity. How about an “opt-out” clause, board members? Let kids who are getting “bullied” opt-out of this ultra-violent contact sport and do something else during gym class. That way, kids who still want to play can play. Why do you have to ban the activity?

Do you see where all of this nannyism is leading?

We are teaching an entire generation of kids that a) equality means equal outcomes, not equal opportunity; b) excelling at something should not be rewarded but criticized and the playing field “leveled;” c) that they should not have to face difficulty or adversity in life (and we wonder why so many of our kids are on psychotropic drugs); and d) choice, opportunity and freedom are archaic notions that have no place in “modern society.”

Meanwhile, children in the rest of the real world are still living in it. Perhaps that is part of the reason why the U.S. lags so far behind those countries in so many categories.
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Old 07-13-2014, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

I don't have kids, but I work with kids. It depends on the kid. Some of them need the encouraging boost at times, and others couldn't care less. I don't think any of them actually believe they're special, for a variety of reasons.
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Old 07-13-2014, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

I think much of the over helicopter parenting is a reaction to the previous generation.

Lots of people born in the 60's/70's grew up in home without two parents. We went from generations that rarely, if ever, got divorced, to generations where divorce was common. Which creates a lot of kids with emotional scars.

So now these kids are parents, and they don't want to put their kids through the same thing. So they overly protect them and make their kids feel special, because it's something they never had as a kid.

But as Jeremy said, we had this with Mr Rodgers too, so it's not exactly a new concept.

Quote:
We are teaching an entire generation of kids that... choice, opportunity and freedom are archaic notions that have no place in “modern society.”
Once could argue many previous generations had no choice or opportunity.
Prior to the 60's, the average female had little choice but to get married and be a stay at home mom. If you did want a job, you were usually limited to secretary, receptionist, or maybe nurse. Freedom? Hardly. And for males, you generally just did whatever your father did. Generations of factory workers went to work in the local factory at age 18. Or they worked the family farm. Or took over the family business, whatever it might be. And if you weren't white, well forget it, you didn't have much freedom in American anyway.

People love to wax nostalgia about the 1950's, but forget many in society hated the 50's and and that's why they rebelled in the 60's.

But this is getting way outside of the scope of this forum.

So, yeah, drum solos, Steve Smith is amazing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lEymU6PttY
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

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As a nation we have become soft, and will become softer.
I think you need to define "soft" and offer some examples. I certainly think we're getting softer in the literal sense, that is, the average US citizen tending to be fatter and less physically fit. I don't think that's what you mean though. Some might argue that riding without a helmet makes someone tough. Others might argue that it makes them soft (in the head).


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Meanwhile, children in the rest of the real world are still living in it. Perhaps that is part of the reason why the U.S. lags so far behind those countries in so many categories.
Which countries and in which areas are our kids lagging and how do we link the "softness" noted above with this lag?

Mind you, I am aware that scores in areas such as math and science for American primary and secondary students are behind those of other industrial democracies, but I am also aware that general knowledge of science, math, geography, etc. are startlingly poor for the average American adult, and they grew up well before the era of "nannyism". I suspect there are a variety of reasons why those scores aren't as good as they could be and I am interested in seeing convincing data that it's due to some manner of coddling.


I will say this, though: no one can really bitch about kids avoiding difficult things if they can or them taking an easier road. They get their cue from adults. It's human nature. I'd go so far as to say that it's the very foundation of technology. Technology exists because humans are lazy. We think "There's got to be an easier way". Imagine some poor schmuck 100,000 years ago discovering that a big rock has rolled down in front of his cave entrance, the cave where he sleeps, stores food and supplies. Try as he might, it's too big for him to move no matter how hard he pushes. But then he remembers something that happened to him in the woods, an accident with a large fallen branch. And so he invents the lever and moves the rock. Technology at its finest!


Everyone is unique. Everyone should get a pat on the back when it is deserved. No one should be ignored and no one should be given undeserved praise.
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

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We are teaching an entire generation of kids that a) equality means equal outcomes, not equal opportunity; b) excelling at something should not be rewarded but criticized and the playing field “leveled;” c) that they should not have to face difficulty or adversity in life (and we wonder why so many of our kids are on psychotropic drugs); and d) choice, opportunity and freedom are archaic notions that have no place in “modern society.”
GD, I don't know who wrote this originally but it sounds like an Ayn Rand inspired wet dream.

I agree that if we did these four things it would be terrible, but I see no evidence that we are. Seriously, any one of these statements is laughable.
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:51 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

I think that we have several generations people that have been raised without adversity. Never being told no, or that's wrong, or your bad. Getting timeouts instead of spankings and having the wrong answers on your test marked in purple instead of red and getting a gold sticker even if you failed and a trophy just for trying. This is not adversity, but in their peer world there is adversity and more and more young people that lack the skills to cope with it. When I think of the young men who ran up the beaches at Normandy, the greatest generation, it fills me with awe. I wonder if the Baby Boomers would have taken the beach that day. Or my generation, Gen X, how would we have fared? It seems to me that every successive generation would have fared worse on that day. Now the big agenda is to remove bullying from our children's lives, which sounds like a good thing since most kids lack the skills to cope with being bullied anyway. Rest assured though that bullys will not go away only the ability to deal with them.
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:58 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

About ten years ago my oldest son, in a moment of frustration with his homework, snapped at me and said "You never say anything positive about what I've done! EVER!"

It was true. He'd just shown me his algebra homework on which he'd received an "A"—after getting C's all year—and I had responded with not so much as a smile. I'd gotten A's in math & science all my life and didn't think it was that special.

It took me a couple days to realize that he needed/wanted me to know & understand how hard he had worked to get that grade.

Then the sledgehammer of revelation hit me: my own father had never said squat about any of my personal achievements. Ever. If anything, he criticized the methods of my endeavors (especially in sports).

I apologized and told my son that encouraging words were not even on my grid…yet. And I promised to give him positive words and encouragement in the future.

The summer following that school year, he attended a summer music camp for youth. At the end of the week, the jazz ensemble he was in performed for parents & teachers. He gave a trombone solo that brought me to tears. To my ears, and all the teachers', it was an excellent improv solo.

I made damn sure I told him how much I liked it and how it affected me. It was difficult to say, but ever since then encouraging words—spoken in truth—have been much easier to come by.

It absolutely affects my own children when I give them positive feedback & encouragement. They know I'm not bullshitting them either, because it doesn't happen every day.
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:58 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

The baby boomers spent their time In Vietnam and being spit on when they got home.
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Old 07-13-2014, 10:03 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

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GD, I don't know who wrote this originally but it sounds like an Ayn Rand inspired wet dream.

I agree that if we did these four things it would be terrible, but I see no evidence that we are. Seriously, any one of these statements is laughable.
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Old 07-14-2014, 12:57 AM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

It's only a kids tv show, sounds like it's sending a message that everyone is individual and unique, which is correct. Be proud of who you are etc etc

Wouldn't read too much into it to be honest. I don't see a problem.
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Old 07-14-2014, 01:25 AM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

No every player shouldn't win a prize. Equal opportunity should never be taken to mean equal outcome. All people aren't created equal (kids included) and the 'playing field' shouldn't be levelled to accomodate those that can't, to the detriment of those that can.

But, a character on a kids TV show says something as innocuous as "you're special" and that somehow equates to the downfall of modern man? I think not. Sure as shit beats telling 'em they're all worthless.
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Old 07-14-2014, 01:30 AM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

"You're special"... that's what my Mum use to say to me when I was a kid... and I believed her :)
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Old 07-14-2014, 01:31 AM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

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Originally Posted by Dre25 View Post
''you're special, you're special because no one else is like you''

....generation of kids are brought up thinking they're somehow better than others.......
Does special automatically imply better? Not in my mind. Special....you could substitute unique for that. Everyone is unique to a certain extent. But better is something different altogether. Kids need to know their parents think they're special. Trophys for showing up, no. Kids....and adults... definitely respond well to positive encouragement. There's a huge gap though between encouragement and entitlement. Words have to be chosen carefully.

I remember many years ago I overheard my Mom attempting to correct one of her grandsons, my nephew, and she said, Connor, you're bad. I had to jump in and say, no Mom, Connor isn't bad, what Connor did was bad. There's a big difference in the kids eyes. Words can make or break a kid, they have to be chosen carefully.

But all people are special. Performance at a certain task and being special because of your uniqueness are 2 different topics. Kids need to be taught that no one is better or worse, just different. We are all wired for a different set of tasks, and it's up to us to help our kids to find out what they are hardwired for.
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Old 07-14-2014, 03:43 AM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

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Originally Posted by Mad About Drums View Post
"You're special"... that's what my Mum use to say to me when I was a kid... and I believed her :)
Exactly. And that's a good thing that helps with self-esteem later on down the line.

Maybe I'm missing something, and I probably am because I wasn't there, but telling kids they're special because there's nobody else exactly like them is a simple, incontrovertible fact. The "everybody gets a trophy" bit is something else entirely. I'm interpreting the OP's experience as reminding kids of their individuality, something a forum full of musicians, of all people, would seem to embrace.
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Old 07-14-2014, 03:44 AM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Does special automatically imply better? Not in my mind. Special....you could substitute unique for that. Everyone is unique to a certain extent. But better is something different altogether. Kids need to know their parents think they're special. Trophys for showing up, no. Kids....and adults... definitely respond well to positive encouragement. There's a huge gap though between encouragement and entitlement. Words have to be chosen carefully.

I remember many years ago I overheard my Mom attempting to correct one of her grandsons, my nephew, and she said, Connor, you're bad. I had to jump in and say, no Mom, Connor isn't bad, what Connor did was bad. There's a big difference in the kids eyes. Words can make or break a kid, they have to be chosen carefully.

But all people are special. Performance at a certain task and being special because of your uniqueness are 2 different topics. Kids need to be taught that no one is better or worse, just different. We are all wired for a different set of tasks, and it's up to us to help our kids to find out what they are hardwired for.
I saw this after I posted my reply and you're basically saying the same thing I did.
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Old 07-14-2014, 08:39 AM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

"When everyone is special, then no-one is" - The Incredibles
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Old 07-14-2014, 09:16 AM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

I've been to parties where I see old friends of mine, and they're there with their children, their kids, and I wonder why do they need to bring their kids to a party and then I remember that every goddam thing is family friendly anymore, and while I and my old friend are talking, my old friend's eyes never leave his kid, he keeps looking at the kid the whole time I'm talking with him, which isn't long because don't make me puke.
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Old 07-14-2014, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

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Originally Posted by Dre25 View Post
I just caught the end of some kids cartoon as I sat down to eat and one of the teddy bear characters turned to me (the audience) and said ''you're special, you're special because no one else is like you'' and this kind of thing.

I'm a bit traumatized and I need to talk about it.

Now I don't have kids but I am a confused young man (well, I'm nearly 30) and often reflect back on my past and upbringing (and what went wrong with it), and this struck a chord with me. I know it's just a silly cartoon but if a generation of kids are brought up thinking they're somehow better than others, how hard will they work? How will they work in teams? And how hard will they crash back down to earth when they realize they're just another face in the crowd and they might have to do some work if they want to be unique?

Maybe I'm just mad because my parents did the opposite. What do you think?

Is this trash talk? I'm sorry, here's a cool drum solo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSRpFDEEFoE
I think you didn't listen to the message and heard what you wanted to hear. Where did they tell the kid they better than others? They are trying to teach kids that they matter and have worth. We have far to many kids who think they are worthless and conduct themselves accordingly. We have far too many parents who teach their kids exactly that.
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Old 07-14-2014, 07:25 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

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Originally Posted by JohnPloughman View Post
You should not get accolades of praise for doing exactly what you are supposed to do. Bonuses aren't handed out for bringing a project to completion with the exact dollar amount and day of contract expiration. They come when you are under budget and days ahead.
Well,we've been doing that in the US for while now.Especially in youth organizations like the Boy Scouts.At camporees,all troops get a ribbon,for just participating.It's suppose to be a competition between patrols and troops.Now it's just one big camping trip.In cub scouting,the "everyones a winner" thing is sickening.By the way,I'm allowed to say this as an adult leader and scoutmaster for over 20 years and 5 time camp director,so I know the program ,inside and out.

All of my kids had to earn what they have.Buy their own cars,and pay for their own car insurance.Help around the house and help their dad(me) take care of his
caretaker duties.There was also no doubt in any of their minds that I loved and cared for each and every one of them,and would help anyone of them in anyway I could,without having to continually pay for mistakes they made,after knowing better.

As a scoutmaster,I see all kinds of parents and kids.I've had moms ask if I''l be cutting their meat for them on camping trips.Some of them also insisted that I let them call home everyday,or if they could call the camp to talk to little johnny at supper time.I've also had the opposite end that think the BSA means baby sitters of America.Drop and run,and then be late picking up their kids or call the meeting hall,and ask for little johnny to be driven home,or just say,put him on a bus,I'm too busy to come get him.

Do yourself and your kids a favor,and by all means.avoid the "I want my kids to have better than what I got,so I'll give them everything they ask for " BS excuse for parenting.Make then earn everything they get.Make them do for themselves ,when it's responsible and appropriate to do so,and don't ever let them feel starved for love an affection from mom and dad.Praise their accomplishments,when they've actually earned it.Support their participation everything from sports to music.And lastly,be a mom or dad,and not just a parent,and don't try to be their friend.....you're NOT.You're a parent.

Steve B
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Old 07-14-2014, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

I probably did overreact.

When I wrote the post I was being dramatic, just for fun but this did definitely confuse me.

I know kids need to be given some praise (I didn't really get any from my parents) but my focus was on kids who go through life deluding themselves, and either crashing and burning or continuing to think their s#%t doesn't stink... or just failing to see that everyone is equal.

I'll come out and admit it - I was so insecure that in my mind I created the idea that I was somehow gifted or amazing, I just had to figure out how. I don't know how long it took me to change my mind on that, but it was probably too late when I did.

I'm too tired to elaborate much more (not that my silly thoughts really count) but I wonder if it's good that we give kids all these fictions like santa claus and then let them down, the cartoons are all hyper but in school they are told to sit down and shut up. I'll shut up, it's 430am.

Night dw.
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:27 AM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamadrm View Post
Well,we've been doing that in the US for while now.Especially in youth organizations like the Boy Scouts.At camporees,all troops get a ribbon,for just participating.It's suppose to be a competition between patrols and troops.Now it's just one big camping trip.In cub scouting,the "everyones a winner" thing is sickening.By the way,I'm allowed to say this as an adult leader and scoutmaster for over 20 years and 5 time camp director,so I know the program ,inside and out.

All of my kids had to earn what they have.Buy their own cars,and pay for their own car insurance.Help around the house and help their dad(me) take care of his
caretaker duties.There was also no doubt in any of their minds that I loved and cared for each and every one of them,and would help anyone of them in anyway I could,without having to continually pay for mistakes they made,after knowing better.

As a scoutmaster,I see all kinds of parents and kids.I've had moms ask if I''l be cutting their meat for them on camping trips.Some of them also insisted that I let them call home everyday,or if they could call the camp to talk to little johnny at supper time.I've also had the opposite end that think the BSA means baby sitters of America.Drop and run,and then be late picking up their kids or call the meeting hall,and ask for little johnny to be driven home,or just say,put him on a bus,I'm too busy to come get him.

Do yourself and your kids a favor,and by all means.avoid the "I want my kids to have better than what I got,so I'll give them everything they ask for " BS excuse for parenting.Make then earn everything they get.Make them do for themselves ,when it's responsible and appropriate to do so,and don't ever let them feel starved for love an affection from mom and dad.Praise their accomplishments,when they've actually earned it.Support their participation everything from sports to music.And lastly,be a mom or dad,and not just a parent,and don't try to be their friend.....you're NOT.You're a parent.

Steve B


Thank you. It's good to see that some in this modern world still possess their faculties.
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Old 07-15-2014, 04:37 AM
Brian Brian is offline
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

Wow, I couldn't disagree more with some of these posts. Children are not objects to be ordered around and controlled the family dog...I know that bucks the trend of the modern family life and outlook. A lot of the "pussification of America" comes from the standardization and one-size-fits-all kids being manufactured through the schools.

Ship them off to prison schooling for 12 years, 8 hours a day, and then tell them you're not their friend , you're their boss and master when push comes to shove...pretty heartless upbringing!

Pussification seems to be more of a standardizing, conformist issue for me, rather than it being a giveaway to lazy or low performers.

Last edited by Brian; 07-15-2014 at 05:19 AM.
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:41 PM
Otto Otto is offline
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

Truth is every kid IS special.

Problem is, few are interested in spending the time it takes to identify and nurture what that specialness is....and kids can lose sight of their own possibilities...especially after realizing they are being 'glad-handed'.

I see the "give every kid a trophy" tendency as laziness on the side of caretakers being passed on to the next generation.
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Old 07-16-2014, 08:07 PM
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Default Re: Should kids be told they're ''special?''

I got into a huge fight with my ex-fiancé over this exact thing. I think that was the beginning of the end. She was 40 at the time. I totally believe it was her parents that manifested this standing on faux pedestal and claiming “I’m Special”. This view was totally new to this me and this relationship.

It started innocently enough just talking in the kitchen when she made this comment about how she is special. I off handedly said “OK, what do you mean?”

“What do you mean, what do I mean?”

“Gah.... yes, your special to me and your family”

“Yes, and I’m special to everybody else.”

“You mean like… neighbors, strangers, people in Nebraska?”

“Yes.”

And here is where it totally went south with me trying to be a realist…

“Uh… No. In the whole context of everyone else, you’re not special because, one they don’t know you.”

“Yes I am. I have unique and special skills”

“Ok, true, but JoBlo at the gas station doesn’t think so and doesn’t care. God and your close family think you are very special. Beyond that… Ya No”

I’m sure I was totally insulting her mental perception of herself. It got more heated and eventually she stormed out.

Fast forward to the weekend with dinner with her folks. Dad.. and Mom then proceeded to lecture me on how special her child is. Pretty much reiterating what she said earlier. Besides being dumbfounded, I respectfully remained quiet, then left.

She envisioned her daughter the same way. She was 12. We had several arguments over that.

I was never one to go through life blowing smoke.
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