Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

[JPW]

LOL @ the meg-ness discussion. We should definitely start a new thread for that! =P With definitions and list of drummer on a meg-scale.

[keep it simple]

Originally Posted by mattsmith

I've got too much practicing to do in prep for tomorrow to play the hamster.
Matt

That's taking percussion instrument diversity too far, and just plain cruel!

[JT1]

As for drummers being better than other drummers, well yes it is subjective and very opinion orientated but it doesn't take a genius to figure out who is better than who when you are out playing night after night. I've been playing nearly 8 years and even now I can watch a drummer and think to myself, wow they're much better than me and I'm sure everyone here would be lying if they said they've never felt the same thing.

As for the Buddy Rich and Meg White discussion, this is laughable, I'm all for saying that it is down to opinion when you say who the best drummer is, but come on this is just a cruel comparison and Meg can't possibly live up to Buddy's standard in any sense of the instrument. He had it all, feel, showmanship, chops, timing, he was reserved when he needed to be, the ability to solo. I don't think I need to go on.

I guess musicians and non-musician may have different opinions on who the best drummer is. But then you are getting in to 2 different discussions, A who is the better drummer? (solo) and B who is the better musician? (in a band)

[Pollyanna]

Originally Posted by JT1

As for the Buddy Rich and Meg White discussion, this is laughable, I'm all for saying that it is down to opinion when you say who the best drummer is, but come on this is just a cruel comparison and Meg can't possibly live up to Buddy's standard in any sense of the instrument. He had it all, feel, showmanship, chops, timing, he was reserved when he needed to be, the ability to solo. I don't think I need to go on.

No way! Buddy didn't have it all ... he was sorely lacking in Meg-ness. His Meg-ness would be measured in mere microMegatrons and score possibly even lower on the Meg scale than Dave Weckl or Ron Bruner Jr.

[keep it simple]

Originally Posted by Pollyanna

No way! Buddy didn't have it all ... he was sorely lacking in Meg-ness. His Meg-ness would be measured in mere microMegatrons and score possibly even lower on the Meg scale than Dave Weckl or Ron Bruner Jr.

Now that really is a load of "brown stripes"! Matt's squishing hamsters too. This thread's getting redikolous.

[JT1]

Originally Posted by Pollyanna

No way! Buddy didn't have it all ... he was sorely lacking in Meg-ness. His Meg-ness would be measured in mere microMegatrons and score possibly even lower on the Meg scale than Dave Weckl or Ron Bruner Jr.

Lol aww Polly but the cruel harsh truth is, nobody wants any Megness that's why there is none there. =P

Does Buddy Rich have a sex tape? No. Therefor Meg White is the better drummer.

[Geoff J]

Originally Posted by motojt

Does Buddy Rich have a sex tape? No. Therefor Meg White is the better drummer.

BUDDY, has the Bus Tapes, though - yikes !

[Average]

About the whole "better" discussion.

I dabble in guitar. I picked it up so that I could help with composition a little easier. Acoustic guitar is more portable than a piano. Anyway, I can play a lot of pop songs and I occasionally will play rhythm guitar for the band. I'm not very good at guitar. If you ask me who is a "better" guitarist - Clapton, or the guy who plays for me, I can't really give you an answer. The fact of the matter is, they are both so much better than I am that I can't even know the subtlties of what each is doing. The devil is in the details. The tiny variations in touch, dynamics and timing that are so tiny that I can't even distinguish that they exist in the first place. I know that those tiny differences must exist between guitarists because those tiny differences ABSOLUTELY exist between drummers and they stand out to me like they were painted hunter's safety orange.

Take another instrument - the piano. If you take a beginner and sit him down at a Steinway, playing the exact piece as a master, the master will sound better and it will sound like two different pianos were being played. I'm still not sure how it happens that way, because in theory, one person hitting a mechanical key should be the same as another. But the difference exists.

Not all opinions are equal. My opinion on who is a better guitarist is not nearly as informed as a master guitarist's opinion is. The master simply CAN see things that I cannot. Imagine this. I'm in a room with Clapton and we're talking about 2 guitarists. One is my 5 year old daughter and the other is Hendrix. Clapton says "your daughter has promise but she is not quite on the level as Hendrix." How stupid would I sound if I said "well that's just your opinion, man." Anyway the thread was an interesting read.

[cooldrummer95]

i haven't been able to read all the posts but about the "who's better" discusion.....why does it even matter who is better and who plays a different style so they cant be better than someone else and etc. etc.? why even argue about who is the better musician or the circumstances with which to define a "better musician/better drummer"? i think that music is possibly the most subjective subject. why cant we forget who is better/worse and just have fun making music?

@Cool D, my thoughts exactly, brother.

[JT1]

Originally Posted by motojt

Does Buddy Rich have a sex tape? No. Therefor Meg White is the better drummer.

Fortunately not... I would rather not see either of them in a sex tape to be quite frank =P

[jazzin']

Originally Posted by Pollyanna

Yes! Brian Blade!

Sorry, couldn't resist :)

This is true.







202020202020

[jazzin']

Originally Posted by motojt

Go for it. Prove that Buddy is better than Meg. Then we can take the exact same criteria you used and apply it to every other drummer comparo. Then we can use those results to finally, once and for all determine the best drummer of all time. Then let's see if the rest of the world agrees with our process. And to answer your question, "It depends on who you ask."

Also, I hate to keep bringing this up, but you guys are constantly ignoring specific points. If the only point you have is "of course Buddy is better than Meg" it makes your whole argument look weak. How 'bout we take it one at a time? For about the 27th time now, how do you judge who's style is better?

Are you serious? Is a three year old kid better than Picasso at painting?

This has to be the most bizarre thread I've come across in a while.

[jazzin']

Originally Posted by JT1

As for drummers being better than other drummers, well yes it is subjective and very opinion orientated but it doesn't take a genius to figure out who is better than who when you are out playing night after night. I've been playing nearly 8 years and even now I can watch a drummer and think to myself, wow they're much better than me and I'm sure everyone here would be lying if they said they've never felt the same thing.

As for the Buddy Rich and Meg White discussion, this is laughable, I'm all for saying that it is down to opinion when you say who the best drummer is, but come on this is just a cruel comparison and Meg can't possibly live up to Buddy's standard in any sense of the instrument. He had it all, feel, showmanship, chops, timing, he was reserved when he needed to be, the ability to solo. I don't think I need to go on.

I guess musicians and non-musician may have different opinions on who the best drummer is. But then you are getting in to 2 different discussions, A who is the better drummer? (solo) and B who is the better musician? (in a band)

A better drummer is also a better musician. A drummer is a musician after all. I think you are talking about popularity, which I would agree with you completely. I'm sure there are a million and one people who would say that Meg White is a better drummer than Tony Williams. They also probably haven't heard Tony though and never really took notice of the drumming of Meg, but rather just enjoyed the whole tune of the White Stripes and probably hate Miles Davis and Tony's own music as well as that as a sideman with other leaders.

I'm sure if they both sat down to a drum clinic between Meg and Tony, not only would they understand very quickly but they would also feel the difference in style and interpretation. A better drummer interprets music better than a lesser drummer. They have more style. It is readily apparent across any culture, any divide whatsoever what makes someone better than someone else at something. That is why someone like Gadd will get hired to do a fantastic groove on a thousand different types of albums from many genres over someone else. His ability to interpret music and play with more style than a lesser drummer is much, much greater.

He is a better drummer. Even if they played the same beat, there is a very definitive interpretation of what would be better. The person who is better has more style and interprets the music better even though it is the same groove. That's why we have drummers who are great and those who are amateurs, decent professionals, hacks, popular band figures/members, etc etc etc.

It is the same with absolutely anything. Two boxers throw exactly the same punch at a bag: Sugar Ray Robinson and Joe Blow. Who's punch is better? Is it opinion? Of course not. Even if someone did say that Joe Blow's was better, he would be flat out wrong and yes, there is such a thing as being wrong. What about a runner? If two runners, one pro and one not, jogged along together.....Picasso and a finger painting two year old....me and my ten year old student.....me and Brian Blade.....Well, he does play, record, write, sing in every genre with some of the greatest musicians of the twentieth century but it's my opinion that I'm better!

.....even though I have a big man crush on him.

[mattsmith]

Originally Posted by jazzin'

A better drummer is also a better musician. A drummer is a musician after all. I think you are talking about popularity, which I would agree with you completely. I'm sure there are a million and one people who would say that Meg White is a better drummer than Tony Williams. They also probably haven't heard Tony though and never really took notice of the drumming of Meg, but rather just enjoyed the whole tune of the White Stripes and probably hate Miles Davis and Tony's own music as well as that as a sideman with other leaders.

I'm sure if they both sat down to a drum clinic between Meg and Tony, not only would they understand very quickly but they would also feel the difference in style and interpretation. A better drummer interprets music better than a lesser drummer. They have more style. It is readily apparent across any culture, any divide whatsoever what makes someone better than someone else at something. That is why someone like Gadd will get hired to do a fantastic groove on a thousand different types of albums from many genres over someone else. His ability to interpret music and play with more style than a lesser drummer is much, much greater.

He is a better drummer. Even if they played the same beat, there is a very definitive interpretation of what would be better. The person who is better has more style and interprets the music better even though it is the same groove. That's why we have drummers who are great and those who are amateurs, decent professionals, hacks, popular band figures/members, etc etc etc.

It is the same with absolutely anything. Two boxers throw exactly the same punch at a bag: Sugar Ray Robinson and Joe Blow. Who's punch is better? Is it opinion? Of course not. Even if someone did say that Joe Blow's was better, he would be flat out wrong and yes, there is such a thing as being wrong. What about a runner? If two runners, one pro and one not, jogged along together.....Picasso and a finger painting two year old....me and my ten year old student.....me and Brian Blade.....Well, he does play, record, write, sing in every genre with some of the greatest musicians of the twentieth century but it's my opinion that I'm better!

.....even though I have a big man crush on him.

Post of the thread.

And yeah, that other guy really is serious. People say he's been sparring with me for the last week, but because I've had him on ignore I missed most of it except for the paraphrases. Sometimes it's just better that way.

Between this and the musicality thread alongside the Shut up I'm the soundman thread, I've decided again to take a little break from the discussion part of the forum. This happens every summer when new guys come to assert themselves. Then they disappear at the beginning of deer hunting season or whenever their cable gets fixed. For example, where are 4 or 5 of the big stars of that technique vs. musicality thread from last summer? Or how about that 8 -10 who trashed one thread after the other the summer before that? ///unless of course you're the Whitedrummer, tommycanyouhearme, juststickingaround Mad Max guy from San Antonio. Then you just show up in identical personas except you wear a different colored super hero mask.
It's a familiar cycle of different guys with the same game and it always runs its course.

Originally Posted by jazzin'

Are you serious? Is a three year old kid better than Picasso at painting?

You seem to have come in too late to read the whole thing. No one is saying that, but Matt seems to keep building straw men.