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  #1  
Old 04-24-2010, 10:30 PM
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Default Show Us Your Muffling

any tips / tricks for your chosen:

a) genre
b) kit / head combo ?

i'll post pics as soon as i learn how to post a pic within my post.
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  #2  
Old 04-27-2010, 01:01 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Alas, no pics yet i use Dynamat and make my own. Use it on the heads and cymbals. You can get a large roll of it for about $60 and it is enough to last me MANY years.
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Old 04-28-2010, 04:59 AM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

This post shows my choice for muffling......:o)
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:31 AM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Here's my muffling:



If you'd like, you can listen to how it sounds by clicking here.
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:12 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavelength View Post
Here's my muffling:



If you'd like, you can listen to how it sounds by clicking here.
very nice drumming. very nice chops. very nice sound. very nice documentation on your page. what batters / resos are you using ?

i know a lot of folks aren't into muffling. either they don't need it or sometimes they actually abhor the very concept. but i have no problem with it. muffling has been done throughout the ages. Bonzo muffled. but even more exemplary to me is that if it's good enough for Ed Cassidy, it's good enough for me. ;)

in the classic rock era (which is what i'm into) it was very common to muffle especially in studio situations as well as in live performance. the studio applications are very much what i'm interested in.

that said, i'm a new drummer and am interested in muffling styles / types / evolution over the years ( :P ) / specific muffling for different types of music / common muffling styles for specific types of music / the landscape of the world of muffling / the state of muffling today / muffling in social application / etc. / from moon gel, to...

cigarette pack on the head (how full a pack ? placed where ?)
towel under the rim (how thick ? which lugs ?)
towel over the rim (taped ? where ?)
handkerchief in a corner between two lugs (which two lugs ? how thick a handkerchief ?)

and many other styles and variations of styles that are unknown to myself - a relative newb.

if anyone can contribute to my knowledge of this world, please chime in !!!
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Quote:
Originally Posted by thtst View Post
Alas, no pics yet i use Dynamat and make my own. Use it on the heads and cymbals. You can get a large roll of it for about $60 and it is enough to last me MANY years.
thanks for your reply.

i googled Dynamat and i saw a LOT of different products and variations of products. i'm not sure which you were referring to.

how do you apply it ? is it cut in any way ? where is applied and how ?

thanks.
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  #7  
Old 05-04-2010, 05:18 AM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

EQ3 w/an EMAD foam ring for the perfect sound.
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Old 05-04-2010, 06:32 AM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Quote:
Originally Posted by unfunkyfooted View Post
very nice drumming. very nice chops. very nice sound. very nice documentation on your page. what batters / resos are you using?
Thanks! I'm using clear Evans EC2s and clear Remo Ambassadors on the toms, a coated Ambassador batter and a clear Ambassador snareside reso on the snare, and a clear PS3 batter and a coated Ambassador reso on the bass drum -- and I do use a rolled towel inside the kick.
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:09 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushroom Cloud View Post
EQ3 w/an EMAD foam ring for the perfect sound.
Great Shot !!!

this has to be one of the Best Drum Shots of all time !!!

what ? did you Windex the EQ3 before the shoot ? wait for the sunlight to be in the right position ala Coppola ? BEAUTIFUL !!!!!

so how did you get the EMAD ring :
1) off of the EMAD
2) onto the EQ3 ?

i knew there were some great muffling stories out there. how did you come up with the idea ?

thank you for sharing and please reply.
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  #10  
Old 05-05-2010, 02:38 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavelength View Post
Thanks! I'm using clear Evans EC2s and clear Remo Ambassadors on the toms, a coated Ambassador batter and a clear Ambassador snareside reso on the snare, and a clear PS3 batter and a coated Ambassador reso on the bass drum -- and I do use a rolled towel inside the kick.
thanks for your reply.

how big a towel ? touching what parts of the head(s) ?

any pictures ?
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  #11  
Old 05-05-2010, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

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Originally Posted by unfunkyfooted View Post
how big a towel ? touching what parts of the head(s)?
I use a "normal" towel, roll it and lay it on the bottom of the drum against the resonant head. Kind of like in this video.
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

I use Evans e-rings on snare and toms and an old feather pillow in the bass drum.
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:09 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Play mostly rock, funk, and anything that grooves. My toms are wide open (Vintage Emperors over clear Ambassadors).

I use a Powerstroke 3 batter w/ a coated Ambassador reso on the kick. I use a small DW-style hourglass shaped pillow *just barely* up against the batter, but about an inch short of touching the reso, for extra sustain.

I like this method. It's simple. The pillow is velcro'd down so it never moves and the sound is amazing. Both punchy and boomy...and I lose none of the sensitivity.

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Old 05-05-2010, 09:24 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

...just one Moongel on the snare when needed and
a little towel between the bass drum head and the pedal...

Philippe

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Old 05-06-2010, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

I use this between the pedal and the head (similar to phil_qc's method):



I've done this for years.
Inside, I use 1" Polyfoam, just at the bottom and just touching the front head to control the sustain a little. It goes from the screws of the legs, side to side. It's taped down so it never moves.
I can adjust how much muting I want just by reaching down.

I use this for all my bass drums.
L-R:
16x26, 18x26, 20x26, 20x26, 16x28



It will work on any size bass drum, and it's simple.

I also use a piece of Coated Ambassador head taped to the beater impact point because I like the sound of no patch on the head (I use a Coated Ambassador batter).
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Old 05-06-2010, 02:00 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

NADA.. 'cept for the foam ring on the EMAD..

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  #17  
Old 05-06-2010, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

if the drums are tuned correctly its not necessary to do any dampening. I find the evans ec2 coated heads work best for me on the toms, evans hd dry coated on the snare top & any extra thin on the snare bottom & evans emad on the kick. I do like the idea of the towel between the kick pedal & head. that makes sense & is very simple....... Murdock the Drummer
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Old 05-06-2010, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

no muffling on my drums at all, with the exception of a felt strip on both batter and reso heads of the kick.
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  #19  
Old 05-06-2010, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

I use the small end of an Evans RGS pad lightly against the batter head of my kick drums. That's it for muffling. Toms and snares are wide open.
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Old 05-07-2010, 09:55 AM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Quote:
Originally Posted by unfunkyfooted View Post
Great Shot !!!

this has to be one of the Best Drum Shots of all time !!!

what ? did you Windex the EQ3 before the shoot ? wait for the sunlight to be in the right position ala Coppola ? BEAUTIFUL !!!!!

so how did you get the EMAD ring :
1) off of the EMAD
2) onto the EQ3 ?

i knew there were some great muffling stories out there. how did you come up with the idea ?

thank you for sharing and please reply.
Yes off an EMAD.

I just carefully fed the ring into the EQ3 ring.

The tray was cracking on the EMAD. It was making a rattling noise when played.

Before EMAD 10+ years ago I was experimenting with the Remo muffle ring foam tucked into an EQ3. The problem with that is the remo foam was so thick it would pretension the head too much.
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  #21  
Old 05-07-2010, 02:30 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

I used to be mad on muffling, but realized that if I got the tuning right, there wasn't much need... Especially in a recording situation.

I used to take old drum heads and cut the centre (and the edge) off it and sit it on top of the drum, much like an o-ring but I cut them a lot thicker.

These were quite good actually, especially live, I still ocassionally use them.

Then I moved on to Moon gels, which I really liked, but they got messy and left sticky marks on the head.

I try not to use it at all anymore, but usually sound technicians prefer not to have any ring.
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  #22  
Old 05-07-2010, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Quote:
Originally Posted by pearlygates View Post
NADA.. 'cept for the foam ring on the EMAD..

and the moon gels on the toms and snare.
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  #23  
Old 05-07-2010, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

I thought it was just bass drum muffling....

Well, don't tell anyone, but sometimes I don't use the muffler....ssshhhhhh!!!!



I wish I could use a full front head too. I used too, but the sound of the kick drum matches up with the bass guitar MUCH better with the 4" port. It is a 20" depth after all, so I gave in.

Snare and toms are totally open 99% of the time, but sometimes I use a small slice of a MoonGel.

It's probably about 3/16 by however wide they are (short length). Just that small piece cuts some tones I don't have time to tune out on a gig, and leaves all the good stuff.
Pretty economical that way too. I get about 7 slices from 1 square.

I've never had a sound person say that I needed to muffle my drums. ......Maybe I've just been lucky.
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Old 05-14-2010, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

oh my. so many great responses !!! i knew there were some great muffling techniques that i would never have thought of, and i see i'm not alone in thinking that the towel between foot pedal and bass batter head is brilliant and i should have thought of it.

currently i use only a few Moon Gels thusly:

snare - 4 Moon Gels (halved horizontally...they just pull apart- carefully) three of them at just right of 9:30, 11 and 1 O'Clock and one at 7 O'Clock
12" - 1 Moon Gel (halved)
13" - 2 Moon Gels (halved)
16" - 1 Moon Gel (halved)

i have used less, depending on what heads and how close to my desired sound i already am.

i had planned on getting an EQ4 and adding a felt strip like my buddy uses for what i consider the best bass sound ever, but it's hard to get details out of him. it was hard enough to find out that it was an EQ4 head. his "Felt Strip" looks more like a bungee cord to me, but when i inquired - he said "it's a felt strip". talkative chap.

i saw the Spirit video for "I've Got A Line On You' and noticed Ed Cassidy's muffling - and i was like - there it is. Good Old School Muffling. it's the sound i want, and it works. i realise that with many more years of tuning experience, i will probably not need as much muffling. a more tunable drum kit would help of course and the correct heads for my sound (when i discover them. but in the meantime the Imps will be the recipient of my Experiments In Muffling [could you hear the echo on that ? use the Sunday, Sunday voice].

i don't know how to multi-quote or embed pics so i will attempt to answer each post individually. thank you so much for ALL of your wonderful replies. if there are more Muffling Techniques, please keep them coming.

thanks All !!!
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Old 05-14-2010, 03:43 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavelength View Post
Thanks! I'm using clear Evans EC2s and clear Remo Ambassadors on the toms, a coated Ambassador batter and a clear Ambassador snareside reso on the snare, and a clear PS3 batter and a coated Ambassador reso on the bass drum -- and I do use a rolled towel inside the kick.
is the towel at the front of the head, like in the Simon Phillips video provided by Wavelength ? i think that's a great idea too, and one worth trying.

i forgot to mention above that for bass drum muffling, i use one of those bed pillows that are longer than normal (covered with a nice burgandy pillowcase) so that it touches both heads. Clear PS3 on batter / stock Tama as reso.
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Old 05-14-2010, 03:49 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuo View Post
I use Evans e-rings on snare and toms and an old feather pillow in the bass drum.
does your pillow touch both heads ? i currently use a long pillow that touches both heads, but i have never transported my kit and i am concerned about the pillow losing it's position due to travel. i would hate to show up at a gig and find out i had to open the drum to adjust the pillow and Then re-tune the bass head on the fly what with the small amount of time that bands are often given.

is this a concern of yours ? have you ever had this problem ?

thanks.
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Old 05-14-2010, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfmoon View Post
and the moon gels on the toms and snare.
Doh! my bad... hahaha
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Old 05-14-2010, 04:10 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Quote:
Originally Posted by unfunkyfooted View Post
any tips / tricks for your chosen:

a) genre
b) kit / head combo ?

i'll post pics as soon as i learn how to post a pic within my post.
I would say for louder styles of music like rock and metal you want to have as open sound as possible on the toms and snare otherwise you just won't hear yourself. 2 ply heads are good for durability but that's the most i would do in terms of muffling. for the kick drum really you want to get the attack sound as well as a tighter feel so this is where a lot of the muffling goes. I tend not to completely kill the drum dead though, just one or 2 pillows does it for me really. You usually end up needing to mic this drum at gigs anyway.
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Old 05-14-2010, 04:20 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Quote:
Originally Posted by zambizzi View Post
Play mostly rock, funk, and anything that grooves. My toms are wide open (Vintage Emperors over clear Ambassadors).

I use a Powerstroke 3 batter w/ a coated Ambassador reso on the kick. I use a small DW-style hourglass shaped pillow *just barely* up against the batter, but about an inch short of touching the reso, for extra sustain.

I like this method. It's simple. The pillow is velcro'd down so it never moves and the sound is amazing. Both punchy and boomy...and I lose none of the sensitivity.

Punchy AND boomy - that's what i like. i must try this. is that a sofa pillow ? what are the dimenesions ?
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Old 05-14-2010, 04:33 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Quote:
Originally Posted by phil_qc View Post
...just one Moongel on the snare when needed and
a little towel between the bass drum head and the pedal...


Philippe

YES ! YES ! YES ! we have a winner in the Bass Division. i must try this !!! i think this would do nicely. i can't believe i didn't think of this ! such a simple and effective idea. it seems yourself and KarlCrafton utilise the same technique.

was this a technique that you adapted or did you invent this on your own ?

thanks.
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Old 05-14-2010, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlCrafton View Post
I use this between the pedal and the head (similar to phil_qc's method):



I've done this for years.
Inside, I use 1" Polyfoam, just at the bottom and just touching the front head to control the sustain a little. It goes from the screws of the legs, side to side. It's taped down so it never moves.
I can adjust how much muting I want just by reaching down.

I use this for all my bass drums.
L-R:
16x26, 18x26, 20x26, 20x26, 16x28



It will work on any size bass drum, and it's simple.

I also use a piece of Coated Ambassador head taped to the beater impact point because I like the sound of no patch on the head (I use a Coated Ambassador batter).
Thank You ! Thank You !
excellent documentation and you explained thing VERY well !

these are techniques i must try. i think they will work for me.

just as i asked phil_qc, i must ask you also: did you invent this on your own or did you see it done elsewhere and then adated it for your needs ?
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Old 05-14-2010, 04:41 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioWonderland View Post
I use the small end of an Evans RGS pad lightly against the batter head of my kick drums. That's it for muffling. Toms and snares are wide open.
thanks. i have looked at the Evans pads and others. still contemplating them.
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Old 05-14-2010, 04:51 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumrdoc View Post
if the drums are tuned correctly its not necessary to do any dampening. I find the evans ec2 coated heads work best for me on the toms, evans hd dry coated on the snare top & any extra thin on the snare bottom & evans emad on the kick. I do like the idea of the towel between the kick pedal & head. that makes sense & is very simple....... Murdock the Drummer
i like your head selections very much. i planned to get a Genera Dry as my next snare head to try and i plan to try EC2's too, so maybe this combo will work for me.

i'm unsure as to which Genera Dry to try: there's the

Genera Dry
Genera HD Dry
Genera S-14 HD Dry

do you know or have an opinion on the differences ? do you have any sound clips of your kit ?

thanks.

ps: that towel at the kick pedal does indeed look like The Thing (to do) dunnit ?
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Old 05-14-2010, 04:58 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickg View Post
no muffling on my drums at all, with the exception of a felt strip on both batter and reso heads of the kick.
where did you get your felt strip ? how is it applied ?

is it actually made of "Felt" - or is "Felt Strip" the generic name applied to any strip used. my drummer uses what appears to be a bungee cord. i asked him if was actually a bungee cord or other. he replied - "it's a felt strip." end of story. talkative chap.
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Old 05-14-2010, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushroom Cloud View Post
Yes off an EMAD.

I just carefully fed the ring into the EQ3 ring.

The tray was cracking on the EMAD. It was making a rattling noise when played.

Before EMAD 10+ years ago I was experimenting with the Remo muffle ring foam tucked into an EQ3. The problem with that is the remo foam was so thick it would pretension the head too much.
Very Inventive !!! in fact you may have come up with the perfect solution for "fixing" the EMAD - notorious for sounding great AND falling apart. Kudos to you sir !!! i'm glad you were able to tell the world of your amazing invention !
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Old 05-14-2010, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevthedrummer View Post
I used to be mad on muffling, but realized that if I got the tuning right, there wasn't much need... Especially in a recording situation.

I used to take old drum heads and cut the centre (and the edge) off it and sit it on top of the drum, much like an o-ring but I cut them a lot thicker.

These were quite good actually, especially live, I still ocassionally use them.

Then I moved on to Moon gels, which I really liked, but they got messy and left sticky marks on the head.

I try not to use it at all anymore, but usually sound technicians prefer not to have any ring.
i can see how that as time goes by, i will need less muffling due to the better tuning skills i will have aquired. as a guitarist who is used to a definite pitch without overtones, i was quite taken aback by phasing problems and the gazillion overtones. i want the lower toned BAP without the second major BONK that can be heard and without the other gazillion additional frequencies. eventually i plan to get a tuner for drums that won't go crazy like a guitar tuner will when used on the drum heads. pressure gauges don't seem like The Thing to me. and i plan to tune the resos to a 5th above the given batter. hey guitar players know Some things. but i haven't gotten around to it yet.

thanks, man.

and yes - Moon Gels can be messy. that's one of the reasons i want to go Old School with muffling. plus the Moon Gels don't exactly get the sound where i want it. better, but not There. so i figured - if i want it to sound Old School, do it like they used to do it. i draw the line at removing the bottom heads. i did try it, but it seemed to be a bunch of nothing. if i come across an example of No Bottom Heads that i think will work for me, i'm open to try that again, but for right now No Bottom Heads is off the table.
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Old 05-14-2010, 05:47 PM
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Wavelength Wavelength is offline
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

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Originally Posted by unfunkyfooted View Post
eventually i plan to get a tuner for drums that won't go crazy like a guitar tuner will when used on the drum heads. pressure gauges don't seem like The Thing to me. and i plan to tune the resos to a 5th above the given batter. hey guitar players know Some things. but i haven't gotten around to it yet.
That's a good way to go. I usually tune the batters a minor third to a perfect fourth below the resonant heads.
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Old 05-14-2010, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

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Originally Posted by eddiehimself View Post
I would say for louder styles of music like rock and metal you want to have as open sound as possible on the toms and snare otherwise you just won't hear yourself. 2 ply heads are good for durability but that's the most i would do in terms of muffling. for the kick drum really you want to get the attack sound as well as a tighter feel so this is where a lot of the muffling goes. I tend not to completely kill the drum dead though, just one or 2 pillows does it for me really. You usually end up needing to mic this drum at gigs anyway.
thanks for your reply.

how big are your pillows and how are they arranged ? have you had any problems with the pillows shifting during transport ?

you know, i think i'm starting to lean towards thicker single plies on snare. i think.

i'm still on my first set of tom heads (Ebony Pins) so i won't be changing them out any time soon, but on the snares i have tried the Remo Black X, Clear Ambassador and Coated Ambassador. i plan to try one of the Evans Genera Dry heads as soon as i narrow them down, so the EC2's for toms should be a good experiment. i definitely plan to get an EQ4 for bass drum and also would like to try the Aquarian Super Kick II and possibly the Super Kick I because i have heard that while the Super Kick II sounds great, there is a definite lack of volume. so i've heard. people talk you know...

and it goes along with my single ply theory....i'm stating to think these days...single ply / no oem muffling / and my own variation on Old School Muffling as described by the great posters here (yourself included) and personal observation and talking to people i meet.

i can't remember if the Genera Dry(s) are single ply or double ply, but that is defintely my next snare head to try. i also will surely try an Emperor / EC2 or other 2 ply head, so it's not a hard and fast rule - just my take on things these days. i'm also open to trying unorthodox things. hey, if it works, it works.

regarding mics: i haven't played drums live other than when i've sat behind the drummer's kit for a moment (i'm a guitarist) but at the very least the bass drum is usually mic'd. if a second mic is used it's the snare or a combination of snare and hi-hat. and of course, more mics if needed.

and of course, tuning tuning tuning. there are no filters, knobs or switches on a drum set. our only recourse is tuning. and muffling.
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Old 05-15-2010, 01:55 AM
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unfunkyfooted unfunkyfooted is offline
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

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Originally Posted by Wavelength View Post
That's a good way to go. I usually tune the batters a minor third to a perfect fourth below the resonant heads.
ahhhhhh ! coolness ! so it seems that i'm on the right track.

minor third huh ? i may have to try that. the perfect fourth too.

can you recommend a good tuner ?
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Old 05-15-2010, 02:16 AM
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unfunkyfooted unfunkyfooted is offline
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Default Re: Show Us Your Muffling

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Originally Posted by pearlygates View Post
NADA.. 'cept for the foam ring on the EMAD..

me too. just a few Moon Gels and a pillow.

how do you like the dual ported front bass head ? any advantages or characteristics ?
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