DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Gear > Pedals

Pedals Discuss Pedals

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #201  
Old 07-01-2006, 09:26 PM
Gravy's Avatar
Gravy Gravy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 71
Default Re: triplets with Heel toe ??

Do you have a double bass? Wit a double bass, it should be relatively easy. With a single, like I have, I can make a slow triplet by kicking my heel forward against the back of the pedal and then putting the toe down after two beats. Probably not the best way, though. If anyone else has a better way, please share. :)
Reply With Quote
  #202  
Old 07-01-2006, 09:28 PM
JWM JWM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 197
Default Re: triplets with Heel toe ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murderdolls172
I 've been have some difficulties with heel toe tring to get out triplets and differnet patterns for heel toe,(Heel Toe Method ).If theres any patterns or such for the heel toe that anybody knowswould really help. Thanks
What do you mean by triplets? The last two notes of sextuplets? (i.e. such as before a snare accent?)

For me, the "heel/toe" method is really Steve Smith's "constant release" technique. I really think it's different things for different people, and it depends on the size of your foot. For me, since I have long feet, it's dropping the heel with the leg (the heel doesn't actually make much contact with the board, but more of the plate at the end... so it's more of a "full foot" stroke) and then playing a heel up stroke with the toes.

You just have to experiment, but it's very important to start SLOWLY... and with the metronome. Once I started to get it, I realized that this is the most exciting thing ever for my feet. It adds so much of a solid and smooth quality to your playing to accent the first note of doubles, triple strokes and even longer phrases of notes.
Reply With Quote
  #203  
Old 07-01-2006, 09:40 PM
Josh is a cult's Avatar
Josh is a cult Josh is a cult is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Torrington, CT
Posts: 235
Default Re: triplets with Heel toe ??

i do the same thing you do JWM but i dont think thats technically heel toe..but it works!
=]
Reply With Quote
  #204  
Old 07-01-2006, 10:33 PM
JWM JWM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 197
Default Re: triplets with Heel toe ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh is a cult
i do the same thing you do JWM but i dont think thats technically heel toe..but it works!
=]
Absolutely.

But Tim Waterson seems to describe his heel/toe as a "constant release" thing, even going so far as to say that his entire heel isn't even on the board.

For me, heel/toe is more of a motion than anything.

But it's really a wonderful technique that is expanding the musicality of the bass drum!
Reply With Quote
  #205  
Old 07-01-2006, 10:44 PM
Josh is a cult's Avatar
Josh is a cult Josh is a cult is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Torrington, CT
Posts: 235
Default Re: triplets with Heel toe ??

definately
twenty...
Reply With Quote
  #206  
Old 07-02-2006, 05:52 PM
MOONCHILD
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: triplets with Heel toe ??

maybe a lot of Iron Maiden can help just try to keep up with Nicko and results must show
Reply With Quote
  #207  
Old 07-02-2006, 06:42 PM
Jeff Almeyda's Avatar
Jeff Almeyda Jeff Almeyda is offline
Senior Consultant
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,201
Default Re: triplets with Heel toe ??

There seem to be two different "Heel-toe" methods.

One is the Gadd, Steve Smith "constant release " thing.

The other is the heel toe double stroke a la Chris Adler. Tim Waterson seems to do this when he's going for high-speed doubles.

Can anyone shed some more light on this? Are they really two different techniques or are they just variations of the same thing?
__________________
Either you have a purpose behind your expression... or you don't.
JoJo Mayer
Reply With Quote
  #208  
Old 07-02-2006, 08:35 PM
Murderdolls172 Murderdolls172 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2
Default Re: triplets with Heel toe ??

yea thanks I've found a way, But yea i think theres a difference between Heel toe and constant release. I think of heel toe more of a rocking motion and constant release dosen't really have a rocking motion. But thanks for all the help
__________________
My name is Shaun and I've been playing the drums for two years.
Reply With Quote
  #209  
Old 07-03-2006, 05:17 AM
rkettner rkettner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 41
Default Re: triplets with Heel toe ??

I put together a simple demo video of this a few years back... but can't seem to find it on my PC anymore. Basically... I use heel-pad-toe to produce a triplet pattern. Never bothered to get it very solid (as I didn't use it in a musical context), but it definately had some promise.
__________________
Rick Kettner [ Yamaha RCs | Zildjian A Customs ]
Reply With Quote
  #210  
Old 07-03-2006, 05:25 AM
rkettner rkettner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 41
Default Re: triplets with Heel toe ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knevildrummer
There seem to be two different "Heel-toe" methods.

One is the Gadd, Steve Smith "constant release " thing.

The other is the heel toe double stroke a la Chris Adler. Tim Waterson seems to do this when he's going for high-speed doubles.

Can anyone shed some more light on this? Are they really two different techniques or are they just variations of the same thing?
They are essentially two different techniques... but quite blendable. Personally I don't find much use for the Steve Smith method - although it's cool for single pedal setups. The double stroke method gives much more benefit IMO. Just as the double stroke for your hands makes for more speed than trying to turn that into a continual motion - the heel-toe double stroke for the feet produces more speed (when used with two pedals).
__________________
Rick Kettner [ Yamaha RCs | Zildjian A Customs ]
Reply With Quote
  #211  
Old 07-03-2006, 10:12 AM
FloEy FloEy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 102
Default Re: triplets with Heel toe ??

Yeah I can do everything jo jo mayer can do in that little video he has here on drummerworld and I can say that even when using a double pedal my heels are pretty much hitting that bottom. The heel does pretty much all of the work and the toes are just a natural reaction that is actually unnoticebly done.
Reply With Quote
  #212  
Old 07-03-2006, 12:25 PM
Raymond Bloom's Avatar
Raymond Bloom Raymond Bloom is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Latvia
Posts: 1,034
Default Re: triplets with Heel toe ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by FloEy
Yeah I can do everything jo jo mayer can do in that little video he has here on drummerworld and I can say that even when using a double pedal my heels are pretty much hitting that bottom. The heel does pretty much all of the work and the toes are just a natural reaction that is actually unnoticebly done.
Hey, do you have a video of you doing some heel-toe stuff? Not that I don't belive, just it would be cool to see!
__________________

my new d'n'b set-up!
Reply With Quote
  #213  
Old 07-05-2006, 01:01 AM
Tim Waterson's Avatar
Tim Waterson Tim Waterson is offline
WFD ACEDRUMMER
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 790
Default how to do Heel toe for biger feet

Hey everybody
Derek Pope (THe Technique expert ) and I have been talking...OH NO....LOL
we are both getting emails and aparently some drummers are still confused about how to do heel toe if your foot is a bit bigger?
here is a quick clip showing my demonstration hope this helps to clear up the confusion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoPv1oM6vZM

Tim
__________________
God Bless
Tim Waterson
Axis Ambassador
www.timwaterson.net
http://timwaterson.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
  #214  
Old 07-05-2006, 01:19 AM
Raymond Bloom's Avatar
Raymond Bloom Raymond Bloom is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Latvia
Posts: 1,034
Default Re: how to do Heel toe for biger feet

Great stuff, Tim! I hope this will finally clear out all these ''my feet are too big, I can't do the heel-toe!!!!''

This should be a sticky thread
__________________

my new d'n'b set-up!
Reply With Quote
  #215  
Old 07-05-2006, 02:58 AM
JWM JWM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 197
Default Re: how to do Heel toe for biger feet

Tim--

Thanks so much for that bro! Really fantastic explanation. Pope's is obviously a really great explanation too, but I got more from yours, especially since you talked a little about Virgil's toe tapping (he seems to really use that for the inverted doubles). I'm feeling a real sense of perspective now about the feet.

Thanks much for your contributions. You're a gift man.

BTW, nice bare foot. Makes me think of that line from Pulp Fiction, "Would you ever consider giving a guy a foot massage?"

Who wouldn't want to massage Tim's feet?
Reply With Quote
  #216  
Old 07-05-2006, 03:03 AM
FloEy FloEy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 102
Default Re: triplets with Heel toe ??

sadly i dont but would I need anyway? Just a camera that can upload things on to the computer? Srry Im not the most knowledgeable on this kind of stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #217  
Old 07-05-2006, 03:53 AM
Jeff Almeyda's Avatar
Jeff Almeyda Jeff Almeyda is offline
Senior Consultant
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,201
Default Re: how to do Heel toe for biger feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWM
Tim--

Who wouldn't want to massage Tim's feet?
What???!!!??? Maybe you should put this in the "off-topic lounge".
__________________
Either you have a purpose behind your expression... or you don't.
JoJo Mayer
Reply With Quote
  #218  
Old 07-05-2006, 04:11 AM
Jivi's Avatar
Jivi Jivi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 149
Default Re: how to do Heel toe for biger feet

Great but vid as always but can you still do the same thing without an Axis pedal?
Reply With Quote
  #219  
Old 07-05-2006, 06:00 AM
JWM JWM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 197
Default Re: how to do Heel toe for biger feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knevildrummer
What???!!!??? Maybe you should put this in the "off-topic lounge".
Hey, you're telling me you wouldn't like to touch the world's fastest feet?
Reply With Quote
  #220  
Old 07-05-2006, 06:38 AM
millerdakiller
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: triplets with Heel toe ??

try sliding the first two beats and then using your heel on the third beat of the triplet.

I don't use the heel/toe because my foots too big so if this doesn't work I'm sorry.
Reply With Quote
  #221  
Old 07-05-2006, 07:02 AM
Raymond Bloom's Avatar
Raymond Bloom Raymond Bloom is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Latvia
Posts: 1,034
Default Re: triplets with Heel toe ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by millerdakiller
I don't use the heel/toe because my foots too big
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=14867
__________________

my new d'n'b set-up!
Reply With Quote
  #222  
Old 07-05-2006, 07:15 AM
djp132's Avatar
djp132 djp132 is offline
Technique Expert
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 375
Default Re: how to do Heel toe for biger feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jivi
Great but vid as always but can you still do the same thing without an Axis pedal?
Yes. I use Eliminators and Cobras and I get the same outcome. The point to be made here is that ANYONE can do this technique regardless of foot size or brand of pedal. Study this video and his others as I believe they are the best out there for demonstrating this technique, and understand the motions. Tim is the man, he knows what he's talking about.
Reply With Quote
  #223  
Old 07-05-2006, 08:01 PM
Tim Waterson's Avatar
Tim Waterson Tim Waterson is offline
WFD ACEDRUMMER
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 790
Default Re: how to do Heel toe for biger feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by djp132
Yes. I use Eliminators and Cobras and I get the same outcome. The point to be made here is that ANYONE can do this technique regardless of foot size or brand of pedal. Study this video and his others as I believe they are the best out there for demonstrating this technique, and understand the motions. Tim is the man, he knows what he's talking about.
Thanks for the props Derek.
I think beween yours and my clips drummers should have a better understanding about heel and toe.I always refer drummers to your clips as well..
Do you think my boots were BIG enough? LOL

I also started on other pedals I first tried heel toe probably by accident on a Ghost pedal or speed king I believe and then a drummer reintroduced the method to me in the early 80s and I was using the OLD grey pearl chain drive at the time.
Tim
__________________
God Bless
Tim Waterson
Axis Ambassador
www.timwaterson.net
http://timwaterson.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
  #224  
Old 07-05-2006, 08:49 PM
JWM JWM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 197
Default Re: how to do Heel toe for biger feet

I sometimes can't believe the LACK of ego displayed here by everyone...

I am so proud to be a drummer right now.
Reply With Quote
  #225  
Old 07-06-2006, 02:51 AM
Vic_Rattledeth Vic_Rattledeth is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 160
Default Re: how to do Heel toe for biger feet

I think Tim needs his own sticky thread. :P I'll be sure to check out your dvd when it comes out.
Reply With Quote
  #226  
Old 07-06-2006, 09:14 PM
JWM JWM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 197
Default Re: how to do Heel toe for biger feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic_Rattledeth
I think Tim needs his own sticky thread. :P I'll be sure to check out your dvd when it comes out.
Nah... let him join the line up with the rest of us =)~

We're ALL on the path, right?

Not that Tim isn't amazing though!
Reply With Quote
  #227  
Old 07-06-2006, 09:45 PM
Martal Martal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 43
Default Re: how to do Heel toe for biger feet

This is all fine and all but i think most people want to see how you do it with a big shoe on a NON-AXIS pedal.

thx
Reply With Quote
  #228  
Old 07-07-2006, 12:01 AM
TheSteve's Avatar
TheSteve TheSteve is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 331
Default Re: how to do Heel toe for biger feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martal
This is all fine and all but i think most people want to see how you do it with a big shoe on a NON-AXIS pedal.

thx


What's the difference? He just explained how to do it. If you don't have a great pedal like that, then practice and build your chops instead of letting the pedal do all the work.
__________________
"If you gotta ask,man, you'll never know."
Reply With Quote
  #229  
Old 07-07-2006, 12:10 AM
Tim Waterson's Avatar
Tim Waterson Tim Waterson is offline
WFD ACEDRUMMER
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 790
Default Re: how to do Heel toe for biger feet

[quote=Martal]This is all fine and all but i think most people want to see how you do it with a big shoe on a NON-AXIS pedal.

thx[/QUote.
I am AXIS's #1 Ambassador, why would I want to demo other pedals?.LOL
Tim
__________________
God Bless
Tim Waterson
Axis Ambassador
www.timwaterson.net
http://timwaterson.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
  #230  
Old 07-07-2006, 12:28 AM
Martal Martal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 43
Default Re: how to do Heel toe for biger feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSteve
What's the difference? He just explained how to do it. If you don't have a great pedal like that, then practice and build your chops instead of letting the pedal do all the work.

Then whats the point of posting the video in the first place?
Reply With Quote
  #231  
Old 07-07-2006, 12:30 AM
Tim Waterson's Avatar
Tim Waterson Tim Waterson is offline
WFD ACEDRUMMER
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 790
Default Re: how to do Heel toe for biger feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martal
Then whats the point of posting the video in the first place?
To help drummers But Axis and I are family.
Tim
__________________
God Bless
Tim Waterson
Axis Ambassador
www.timwaterson.net
http://timwaterson.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
  #232  
Old 07-07-2006, 12:36 AM
Mediocrefunkybeat
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: how to do Heel toe for biger feet

Come on guys, Tim's doing you all a favour. Seriously. He's already said it's possible on all pedals and I for one believe him. If you don't like the fact that he uses Axis then don't rag on him about it. He's done a hell of a lot for our community...
Reply With Quote
  #233  
Old 07-07-2006, 12:48 AM
TheSteve's Avatar
TheSteve TheSteve is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 331
Default Re: how to do Heel toe for biger feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martal
Then whats the point of posting the video in the first place?


To teach people who want to learn. Don't mind the pedal, watch his feet, that's the whole point.
__________________
"If you gotta ask,man, you'll never know."
Reply With Quote
  #234  
Old 07-07-2006, 01:07 AM
Raymond Bloom's Avatar
Raymond Bloom Raymond Bloom is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Latvia
Posts: 1,034
Default Re: how to do Heel toe for biger feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martal
Then whats the point of posting the video in the first place?
Why do you think this is a special technique for an Axis pedal?

Technique is just technique, as long as the pedal is decent quality and woks as a bass drum pedal should it's fine for heel-toe
__________________

my new d'n'b set-up!
Reply With Quote
  #235  
Old 07-07-2006, 01:09 AM
TheSteve's Avatar
TheSteve TheSteve is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 331
Default Re: how to do Heel toe for biger feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Bloom
Why do you think this is a special technique for an Axis pedal?

Technique is just technique, as long as the pedal is decent quality and woks as a bass drum epdal should it's fine for heel-toe


Thank you! Someone with a brain!
__________________
"If you gotta ask,man, you'll never know."
Reply With Quote
  #236  
Old 07-07-2006, 03:51 AM
G-manMET's Avatar
G-manMET G-manMET is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4
Default Re: THE HEEL TOE THREAD

My toesies get shreddied up on the chain from time to time, when I do heel-toe.
Reply With Quote
  #237  
Old 07-07-2006, 04:57 AM
poisonpage poisonpage is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13
Default Re: THE HEEL TOE THREAD

I started doing the heel-toe naturally, but I have size 13 feet, so I started hitting the end or the chain (sometimes). I thought I was doing it wrong! It feels kinda weird and I can't sustain it like crazy Jojo Mayer can but the best i can do is squeeze out a 4-stroke ruff (I do the 1+ a 2 as a triplet). I can also play that crazy triplet pattern on the kick that he does in one of the videos. I had to take the toe guard off the top of my Pearl P-1002 pedal because I wasn't able to properly execute the technique. So many problems.....I then started using the slave pedal to get what I needed.
__________________
http://www.lurkingrecords.com
Reply With Quote
  #238  
Old 07-07-2006, 05:12 AM
Martal Martal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 43
Default Re: how to do Heel toe for biger feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Bloom
Why do you think this is a special technique for an Axis pedal?

Technique is just technique, as long as the pedal is decent quality and woks as a bass drum pedal should it's fine for heel-toe

I was just saying that people want to see it done on NON-Axis pedals,as evidenced by previous posts in Tim's threads
Reply With Quote
  #239  
Old 07-07-2006, 05:25 AM
JIM_fear JIM_fear is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 158
Default Re: THE HEEL TOE THREAD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Bloom
Feet size doesn't matter, you can do heel-toe on particulary any bass drum pedal with any size of your feet if executed the right way!
That's absolutely true. I have size 16 feet and i can do it just fine so size is not a factor if done correctly.
Reply With Quote
  #240  
Old 07-07-2006, 07:21 AM
tambian89's Avatar
tambian89 tambian89 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 440
Default Re: THE HEEL TOE THREAD

Quote:
Originally Posted by JIM_fear
That's absolutely true. I have size 16 feet and i can do it just fine so size is not a factor if done correctly.
MY GOD!

Anyway: I recently tried the heel toe technique based upon Tim Waterson's short demo. Despite my first thoughts about this technique, I found the motion very easy, and it is quite easy to practice. However, I have to practice cleaning up the notes, as they become slurred and often turn into flam patterns.

I mainly use this technique for triplets with my right foot (mainly Zeppelin tunes).

- Marc
__________________
Passion is poison laced with pleasure, bittersweet. One of many faces, that hides deep beneath.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com