THE HEEL TOE THREAD

[skippy]

ok you all no what they say about guys with big feet...they cant play the heel toe thing...so i have size 12 shoes and a dw 7000 pedal anyone who can help me leard this will be greatly admired...please help.
thanks in advance


skippy

[RudimentalDrummer]

They don't have over size pedal don't they and you can't shrink your foot neither. So I guess you can't do it heel-toe the usual way. Maybe you should slant your foot at 45 degree angle and try doing the heel-toe.(I don't know - I'm just imagining)

[somedrummer]

Size 12? Try size 16, man! No, as far as heel-toe, i guess i dont really do it.

A while back I sent an email to Gene Okamoto of Pearl drums, and he said he had talked to the designer of the eliminator pedals anout this concept. I havent seen anything for it yet, but I have faith in Pearl to make something that will work for us bigfootsies.

[davodi74]

Yeah, mate, I know how you feel. size twelve also. I often feel clumsy when playing in shoes because there...so....big!

[Beercan]

Errrr, size 12 is pretty normal unless we're talking about different scales here. I'm a 12.5-13 US and I don't have any problem with the size of my feet... although now that you mention it, I definitely have a couple of pairs of shoes that I avaoid wearing while I'm playing. The shoes that I like playing in the most are like 2 years old and the flattest, narrowest ones I have. I think your shoes might be more of a problem than your foot size in itself.

Originally Posted by skippy

ok you all no what they say about guys with big feet...they cant play the heel toe thing...so i have size 12 shoes and a dw 7000 pedal anyone who can help me leard this will be greatly admired...please help.
thanks in advance


skippy

Check out the axis-x longboards. They are substantially longer than dw pedals. I have the same sized feet and it was a lot more work for me to learn to play heel toe than buddies who all have size 9 feet.

Size 12= much longer than the dw9000 footboard. It is a bit awkward compared to say Joey Jordinsons little feet.

[skippy]

oh well looks like im stuck. i can get some fast singles on my pedal by a twitching motion i started using.

[rkettner]

If someone can help you out here for free, definately take that advice... however if it isn't working for you for any reason - you can check out my heel-toe technique video lesson. It's cheaper than a single private lesson, and shows exactly how to play this method even if you have shoe sizes of 20+. Seriously, it can be done with ANY size and I cover that specifically in the video. Again... if some free advice will do the trick - then save your money.

[MysteRMagnuM]

Hi

Does anyone have a video or something that shows the proper way to do the heel toe method for playing the bass drum?
I'm not sure that the way that i am trying it is the proper way.

Any help will be much appreciated(sp).

[lapa]

I have two videos, one is 18mb~ and the other is 45mb~
In these videos the guy explains it very good, with slowmotion and all that. also beats you can practice the technique with.

Just give me a place where i can host it. (without becoming a member)

-
heel_toe_training_high

Heel-Toe Video

- That's the name of the videos, try DC or something untill i get some kind of hostsite.

[Nick Garland]

Got the video off lapa and hosted for you (link removed by administration)

[Zirar]

Awesome video! Thanks for sharing!

[rjvsmb]

Thanks lapa and nick!!!!!!!

That is an awsowe video. I'm gonna go practice it right now.

rjvsmb

[Massik Kretal]

Seems too easy. I can do some of it without heel toe.

[MysteRMagnuM]

Thanks a lot guys. This has been very helpfull. :)

[Whitey]

After watching the vieo, I started practicing this nonstop. problem im running into is i dont think my pedal tension(sp?) is high enough anyopne out there have any tips on finding the right tension to get good rebount on the foot pad. i use DW4000 double bass pedals FYI

Whitey

[larkin42]

I was wondering if the heel-toe technique is any faster than playing heel up, i watched this video and i can play anything he is playing on there and more, playing heel up.

If it is a faster way of play, I will give it a shot and try it out.

I'm glad someone had the breaksticks.com video and was able to post it. Rick explains the technique very well.

You can actually buy a video that his partner Jared Falk has produced at www.heeltoetechnique.com I believe it is. The laughable thing about it though is that on the site he claims that the video is $99 and you can get it for a limited time discount of $9! $99 regularly for a DOWNLOADABLE video? Yay..where do I sign up..

Steve Gadd also demonstrates the technique on his "Up Close" video, although he does it alot more elegantly and smoother looking. I'm still trying to do 16th notes with that technique and I just can't make it flow smoothly.

[mr_hayward_99]

After watching the vieo, I started practicing this nonstop. problem im running into is i dont think my pedal tension(sp?) is high enough anyopne out there have any tips on finding the right tension to get good rebount on the foot pad. i use DW4000 double bass pedals FYI

Whitey

so i think not so much tension, i have never used a DW pedal, apart from in a shop once. so dont really know what that ones like

I use a basic mapex pedal with not much bounce on it at all, and i find that easier beacuse if youy have to much tension the pedal just bounces to much and ur foot can t keep up with it,

[NUTHA JASON]

i used to think that having more tension on springs = faster pedals but from DVDs and also at drummerlive2005 i saw that it was the opposite. since then i have detensioned my springs to the extent that my beatere swings back and forth for at least ten seconds after i leave it and voila i'm suddenly a lot faster and have more endurance. seems obvious to me now.


j


ps: sorry guys but i had to remove the link to the heel toe method as it is copyrighted and its owner specifically asked me to do it. please only post public stuff (videos that are available on quite a few sites). it is hard to tell i know, but if something has good quality sound, size and is as long as this video was then you can be sure that it is meant to be bought. who knows, one day you will want to make an instructional clip and then want paying. and on top of that we don't want Drummerworld to be sued. protect the forum please.

Heel toe and pedal tension:

While I did start with the out of the box low tension, I moved on.

I find that tension, like alcohol is best in moderation. I see no value in cranking the spring so tight you actually have to fight to overcome the pull. And too dead, it's working against you-it lacks action.

I found the best response for any given style is between 1/3 and 2/3 of total spring tension range.

The pedal should be alive enough to rapidly rebound.

I feel sorry for youngsters just starting on this. They usually have to suffere through a super crappy single or ultra crappy double pedal to start on. I played one in July attached to a friends e-kit. It was amazing how much control is lost, and effort wasted due to poor action and construction.

If you guys want to get serious about double kick, make sure you use a solid pedal. Some of the affordable pearl and tama are decent for the money. But almost all of the $69 double pedals I have tried are terrible.

[NUTHA JASON]

i'm in complete agreement. i would say that your pedal should be the most expensive thing on your kit. as early as possible in your career, before you get a second crash or up-grade your cymbals and snare, save up and get a pro quality bass pedal. the positive effect on your progress as a drummer cannot be exaggerated. rather bear with a horrible sounding kit for another two years and have a great pedal (and therefore begin developing great pedal technique). you wouldn't play drums with toilet brushes or a pair of baseball bats so why suffer a crummy pedal. if your pedal costs less than 10% of the total cost of all your gear (for example a £3000 drumkit including cymbals and cases should have at least a £300 pedal) then you are shooting yourself in the foot, LOL.

j

Ps: look up the meaning of false economy.

I disagree when you say it should be the most expensive piece of gear on your kit, but I agree in principle. Why play with a bad pair of sticks? The bass pedal IMO is just as important (arguably more, because you're stuck with it when you buy it) as sticks. I use a DW5000 Turbo single now and it was a big upgrade from my Pearl P-100TW (double). It's made a nice difference and I feel a lot better about my kit knowing at least one part of it is of that standard.

Although, it doesn't have to be the most expensive piece of gear. Mine cost me £99 (special deal at Wembley, Nutha, if you want a backup), my ride cost me £140.

Originally Posted by mediocrefunkybeat

I disagree when you say it should be the most expensive piece of gear on your kit, but I agree in principle. Why play with a bad pair of sticks? The bass pedal IMO is just as important (arguably more, because you're stuck with it when you buy it) as sticks. I use a DW5000 Turbo single now and it was a big upgrade from my Pearl P-100TW (double). It's made a nice difference and I feel a lot better about my kit knowing at least one part of it is of that standard.

Although, it doesn't have to be the most expensive piece of gear. Mine cost me £99 (special deal at Wembley, Nutha, if you want a backup), my ride cost me £140.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. A good bass pedal is important but it doesn't have to be the most expensive. My Eliminator was $109 and that's cheaper than any cymbal I've ever bought, other than a splash.

[nemo]

i got one on my pc, but i dont know where i can uploade videos.

[finnhiggins]

Originally Posted by mediocrefunkybeat

Although, it doesn't have to be the most expensive piece of gear. Mine cost me £99 (special deal at Wembley, Nutha, if you want a backup), my ride cost me £140.

My pedal is probably the least expensive thing on my kit, I got it off a friend for twenty quid :)

Tama Iron Cobra single. I've yet to try anything I like significantly better.

[NUTHA JASON]

i meant if you're buying a new one.

j

ps: finn, i play the exact same pedal...and i love it. superb action and engineering and tough as nails.

Originally Posted by nemo

i got one on my pc, but i dont know where i can uploade videos.

www.putfile.com seems to be pretty popular for uploading videos for free.

[jedrgy]

It says the link was removed by the administrator could somebody email me the link here... jedrgy@gmail.com ... thanks

[Capitaine Quebec]

i tried the heel toe technique and its working with my right foot but not the left. Good technique indeed but not for me. And those who say that can play with heel up faster thant the video exercise, normal, the video is for learning, not showing off :P

out of thread----
I have 2 bass drum, should i get a double pedal or 2 separate pedals? because if i want a decent pedal (what im planning to do because my pedals feel horrible, they are the stock pedals) like exemple iron cobra that is around 130$ new, its 2 time for me so 260$ plus tax so its kinda costy. if i buy a double pedal , i will be able to play with 1 or two bass drum depending on how i feel, but is it more costy than 2 pedals?

Originally Posted by Capitaine Quebec

i tried the heel toe technique and its working with my right foot but not the left. Good technique indeed but not for me. And those who say that can play with heel up faster thant the video exercise, normal, the video is for learning, not showing off :P

out of thread----
I have 2 bass drum, should i get a double pedal or 2 separate pedals? because if i want a decent pedal (what im planning to do because my pedals feel horrible, they are the stock pedals) like exemple iron cobra that is around 130$ new, its 2 time for me so 260$ plus tax so its kinda costy. if i buy a double pedal , i will be able to play with 1 or two bass drum depending on how i feel, but is it more costy than 2 pedals?

I went to 1 kick to save space, and because I liked th dw9002/eliminator so much. But:
I am considering building a twin kick maple shelled kit that replicates most of Neil Pearts red artstar kit. I would go to twin eliminators in that case. I do so for personal aesthetics and looks, but not necessity. Twin pedals are so good these days, there really isn't much need for two of the same sized kick.

My philosophy is: use two if you feel better with them. twin kick kits look very cool indeed.

[rkettner]

Originally Posted by jedrgy

It says the link was removed by the administrator could somebody email me the link here... jedrgy@gmail.com ... thanks

The link was removed because the video is copyright material. You can buy the Heel-Toe Technique video online for a reasonable price ($9.95), and the money helps in the development of future videos.

Rick, do you have any plans to sell DVD's along with the downloadable versions?

[Capitaine Quebec]

Originally Posted by thinshells

I went to 1 kick to save space, and because I liked th dw9002/eliminator so much. But:
I am considering building a twin kick maple shelled kit that replicates most of Neil Pearts red artstar kit. I would go to twin eliminators in that case. I do so for personal aesthetics and looks, but not necessity. Twin pedals are so good these days, there really isn't much need for two of the same sized kick.

Well the thing is that when i bought my drum, it came with 2 bass drum, it was reducted, plus everything was, in the store, at a normal price with taxe, i saved about 900$ which is good i think. I thought myself "Great two base drum=no need for dbl bass drum pedal" yeah right... at the beggining i didnt care about my pedals, now i do. They feel crappy and i hear this metal sound when i try to go faster with them. My friend keep telling me "no they are great keep them" when i tell him that i absolutely want to change them. So any suggestion on pedal? i think i will buy a double pedal and keep my 2 bass drum so i will be able to get 2 different sound. Any suggestion on what to get? i dont know if the iron cobra dbl worth their 300 $...

[jedrgy]

Do those of you who have the video think its worth the 10 bucks??

Originally Posted by Capitaine Quebec

Well the thing is that when i bought my drum, it came with 2 bass drum, it was reducted, plus everything was, in the store, at a normal price with taxe, i saved about 900$ which is good i think. I thought myself "Great two base drum=no need for dbl bass drum pedal" yeah right... at the beggining i didnt care about my pedals, now i do. They feel crappy and i hear this metal sound when i try to go faster with them. My friend keep telling me "no they are great keep them" when i tell him that i absolutely want to change them. So any suggestion on pedal? i think i will buy a double pedal and keep my 2 bass drum so i will be able to get 2 different sound. Any suggestion on what to get? i dont know if the iron cobra dbl worth their 300 $...

The least expensive decent pedal is probably the iron cobra junior or pearls equivalent. There is a madrange mapex (580 IIRC ) that isn't bad. Those are good starting points. If you go too cheap you will be fighting with a bad design.

Originally Posted by jedrgy

Do those of you who have the video think its worth the 10 bucks??

I had the video back when it first came out, and I'd say yes. Rick made the video very informative and leaves no stone unturned or question unanswered about the technique.

IIRc Steve Smiths "History of the US beat" shows both heel toe and heel up.

[rkettner]

Originally Posted by fourstringdrums

Rick, do you have any plans to sell DVD's along with the downloadable versions?

Yes, I am definately interested in getting DVDs made soon. Stay tuned to the Heel Toe Technique website for more info. Should be coming very soon.

[deltadrummer1]

After reading the posts and watching some videos on the heel toe technique, I now see that a longboard pedal isn't necessary to use the technique...but would a longboard make it easier on someone with large feet? Or would it be easier just to learn it on a regular sized pedal?